Camsites, modeling and mental health

[ericlafayet]

Hi,

Do you thing there is a relation between mental heath issues and modeling users? I mean, looking at the forum reading experiences, or just meeting some other users on SC, it's easy to notice that there're users on sites that needs help with its mental health. (I could include myself).

Is it a thing? If so, I think that joining camsites as a place to find some "peace", just as a patch, and having not to deal with the problem.

I'm just doing questions, I see some patterns on some users behaviours. I'm not psychologist or doctor, so maybe I'm wrong and they (we) are all super good and we're just having fun adding some drama.

Or maybe it's a thing that we need to give a thought.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Are you talking about members, or performers?

 

[ericlafayet]

Are you talking about members, or performers?

Sorry for the confusion. I'm speaking about members, just because all cases I read here and some other I met personally, are members.

I don't know if it could apply to models as well, I have no information from any model here or in sites about that.

Questio is open, if anyone wants to add anything, more than welcome.

This must be treated with all the respect and empathy.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Yeah I wanted to make sure I knew which you were speaking of before answering, because my response for each would be very different.

Concerning members, I think it's something that each person who visits the sites needs to address on their own. If they have an issue, it is not that the cam site or other platform is the problem. It is likely to be something pre-existing that the individual needs to handle outside of the sex work/adult entertainment world, and I am not sure it's the responsibility of the industry to try to manage.

 

[ericlafayet]

Yeah I wanted to make sure I knew which you were speaking of before answering, because my response for each would be very different.

Concerning members, I think it's something that each person who visits the sites needs to address on their own. If they have an issue, it is not that the cam site or other platform is the problem. It is likely to be something pre-existing that the individual needs to handle outside of the sex work/adult entertainment world, and I am not sure it's the responsibility of the industry to try to manage.

Oh, I think I did explain my point so bad. Of course the responsibility falls in each one. Actually that's part of the pattern I was trying to explain. Sorry for the confusion.

So, some members (here in the forum you can find some cases) and also in SC I me a couple of members with similar issues, and my question is if it could be a relation between mental heath issues and joining camsites, as trying to scape from the problem. And I can put myself here.

Do I join camsites because I find to have fun, or the fact I do that here and not socializing outside it's something I have to deal? (Other members explained so more relevant and critical issues, mine is nothing comparing).

Hope this clarifies my question.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Well sure, people with mental health issues often look for different means of escapism. Cam sites can definitely offer that.

But then the specific issue you bring up is that you are perhaps looking for a social interaction need to be met. And if cam sites are your go-to for that need, you are looking in the wrong place. If you find that you generally have issues socializing, and all your socialization comes from interaction with sexy e-performers who are paid to be nice, it's not necessarily going to help you become better at socializing irl or in other contexts. There are other online communities where you can get better at that, and learn how to socialize in ways that are more broadly relevant.

BUT, I don't think every person is supposed to be the same level of social or outgoing. Maybe the thing you need to figure out is what kind of socializing you value and what makes you feel fulfilled. That is the stuff a mental health pro can help you get to the bottom of.

 

[ericlafayet]

But then the specific issue you bring up is that you are perhaps looking for a social interaction need to be met. And if cam sites are your go-to for that need, you are looking in the wrong place.

It's okay, I'm fine with my social issues, wasn't trying to get help for me. I was just adding my case to the general quesiton.

The thing is that everyone could have its own issues, and that joining camsites is a fast-easy way to get that compensation (psych) that gets missing due to issues.

If I am right, I see a big problem there that could make things getting worst.

Don't we have any psychologist on the forum?

 

[rockin_rod]

I'm no 'armchair Psych', but I will say that it seems to me there's a number of viewers who (just like models) enjoy having a camsite persona, that allows them to behave in a way that they wouldn't otherwise do.
But the same could be said for many online experiences - like hobby forums, for example.
People will behave very differently from behind a keyboard or on the phone, because it's perceived as a safer environment than face-to-face, and that can break boundaries and empower boldness, even confrontation.
Just ask anyone who works in customer service, call centre etc.
Online environments can appeal to those that find in-person interactions socially awkward or unsatisfying because of this.
Add in the sexual nature of the interactions, and that most viewers are visiting alone - perhaps even in secret - and that increases the likelihood that you will encounter more anti-social behaviour.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

The thing is that everyone could have its own issues,

Right, I do not necessarily mean just you specifically, but anyone who might be using cam sites in this way. But the answer is the same, cam sites as a bandaid for deeper issues isn't going to lead to the best outcomes. Just responding to the specific example you gave.

So if the problem is there, whatever it is, what's the solution? Visit a professional for help. idk, I wish more people would understand that you do not have to wait until you are in mental health crisis to speak with a therapist.

and that joining camsites is a fast-easy way to get that compensation (psych) that gets missing due to issues.

Except it isn't, like you mentioned, it makes things worse. People need to be responsible for making their own good choices, we can't do anything to stop people from repeating behaviors that are not giving them the results they might want.

 

[ericlafayet]

Yep, that's exactly my point. So now we agree with the situation and how problematic could be, I think it deserves some more thouthgs.

We cannot control people's decisions. But there's room to work on sites, maybe also models, moderators, and whatever that could help, like banners/links to get help.

Question: is there any international law that regulates camming industry? Or any country has anything?

I guess that answer is NO.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

The problem is not the industry, the problem is that a small subset of people who consume the material produced in the industry happen to have outside issues that they are not addressing. This is not even specific to our industry. Anything that can be misused or abused, people will find a way to do so. Cam sites are not special in this way.

 

[ericlafayet]

The problem is not the industry, the problem is that a small subset of people who consume the material produced in the industry happen to have outside issues that they are not addressing. This is not even specific to our industry. Anything that can be misused or abused, people will find a way to do so. Cam sites are not special in this way.

Well, I do not agree at all. Yes, agree that the modeling industry it's not the problem, I didn't said that, and I never considered that so far.

But not being the problem doesn't excludes you from doing something. You can decide to not do anything, and that's okay. My intention on this thread was to discuss and debate the problem and what do we have in our hands to help.

Gambling industry runs under regulations and laws depending on regions.
For porn sites, if I'm not wrong, USA did try to create something to regulate porn content, with no luck. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was wondering if being regulated, or at least an initiative to add some mechanisms or features, modeling could be a safer place for both models and users.

I have no idea about it, just wanted to read opinions and discuss.

 

[haywired1950]

The problem is not the industry, the problem is that a small subset of people who consume the material produced in the industry happen to have outside issues that they are not addressing. This is not even specific to our industry. Anything that can be misused or abused, people will find a way to do so. Cam sites are not special in this way.

I'm not an expert on any of this, but having been around Chaturbate since around 2015, as a User and Moderator, but it's like you said., there are people on there that just jackasses. I'll go a step further, I think there are a bunch on there that have never seen a naked woman, let alone see the things some of them do.
Some of them think these girls are Vending Machines too, insert tokens and push select.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Maybe I'm wrong.

Like most things that people find ways to misuse and abuse, there are regulations regarding what content can be produced/streamed, how it is produced, who can produce/appear in/sell it, where it can be advertised/what specific terminology can be used to do so, and who can buy/view it. What more are you suggesting?

 

[ericlafayet]

I don't know... please don't get offended, I'm not complaining to modeling, content, streams and how they're being managed. I'm talking about people with issues, how do they interact with models and other users, and what can be done to help. I'm not requiring anything to anybody. This is just a debate. Or that was my purpose.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I am not offended. I don't feel that anything is required of me, obviously. Just confused by what conversation you are trying to have. In the original post, you asked if there is a correlation between cam site members and mental health issues. So I answered that, as well as your follow-up questions from your replies. My final question regarding what you think should be done was posed because I am trying to understand your perspective.

 

[ericlafayet]

My apologies for not explaining clear.

First question was if people with issues were using camsites for kind of "ignoring" those issues, and how bad / danger can be doing that.

We agreed more or less on the situation.

Then was wondering if sites could add any mechanism to detect those cases and manage them, to avoid users creating problems on models and users, and to try give them any resource to get out of there and find help.

How? I don't know. Maybe moderators can be aware of those cases. Or maybe models could report cases. Or whatever , I'm not an expert. Maybe sites should not do anything.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Well we can block/ban members from our chats after the undesirable behavior takes place, and we can report them to the platforms. Sometimes they take action, sometimes they don't.

Having mental health concerns doesn't equate to misbehaving. We don't know someone is going to be a weirdo until they do it. I don't personally want performers to feel like it is their additional job to better the health of their viewers OR enforce better behavior from a member who has just disrespected them, and I also don't want platforms taking on the role of mental health screener to grant or deny access to potential users. Lots of ethical questions raised.

 

[haywired1950]

My apologies for not explaining clear.

First question was if people with issues were using camsites for kind of "ignoring" those issues, and how bad / danger can be doing that.

We agreed more or less on the situation.

Then was wondering if sites could add any mechanism to detect those cases and manage them, to avoid users creating problems on models and users, and to try give them any resource to get out of there and find help.

How? I don't know. Maybe moderators can be aware of those cases. Or maybe models could report cases. Or whatever , I'm not an expert. Maybe sites should not do anything.

As a Moderator, I have reported a few users for threating, abusive, and strange behavior, I have never gotten a reply from anyone in support, so that's the way it is. I can silence them and they Model can bann them and that's about it.

 

[ericlafayet]

As a Moderator, I have reported a few users for threating, abusive, and strange behavior, I have never gotten a reply from anyone in support, so that's the way it is. I can silence them and they Model can bann them and that's about it.

Of course, camsites are who should support you with resources to deal with those cases.

But I see It was not correct that idea, so .. that's it.

 

[Deleted member 45270]

Gambling industry runs under regulations and laws depending on regions.
For porn sites, if I'm not wrong, USA did try to create something to regulate porn content, with no luck. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't want the government to step in. As we've seen, and will continue to see, anything that claims to help people in the industry is in name-only, and ends up being a form of online censorship/control over people in general.

Honestly can't think of one time I've personally seen or heard a gambling law helping a gambling addict.. but that would be going on a tangent. However, what I do wish the adult industry could start doing is to push more reminders about "problems with overspending/struggling with porn addiction/etc? Get help here: (resources)". I personally throw out this reminder randomly every few months (though I tell people to seek professional help in their area instead of specific resources, because I honestly don't know many that don't paint the industry as demonic)

I don't think it will be a blanket fix to people suffering, but that goes with any industry that has a risk of unhealthy coping outlets and/or addiction, like gambling, alcohol, drugs.. hell, even more socially acceptable forms of entertainment, like tv/youtube/sfw streamers/etc. Parasocial relationships is a real, rapidly growing problem that vulnerable people are at high risk of clinging onto. We're definitely not the only industry with that problem, and people who take it too far will exist with or without the government's "help."

 

[AudriTwo]

No one is responsible for anyone's mental health other than their own.

That being said, everyone can benefit from therapy. EVERYONE.

 

[ericlafayet]

I don't want the government to step in. As we've seen, and will continue to see, anything that claims to help people in the industry is in name-only, and ends up being a form of online censorship/control over people in general.

Honestly can't think of one time I've personally seen or heard a gambling law helping a gambling addict.. but that would be going on a tangent. However, what I do wish the adult industry could start doing is to push more reminders about "problems with overspending/struggling with porn addiction/etc? Get help here: (resources)". I personally throw out this reminder randomly every few months (though I tell people to seek professional help in their area instead of specific resources, because I honestly don't know many that don't paint the industry as demonic)

I don't think it will be a blanket fix to people suffering, but that goes with any industry that has a risk of unhealthy coping outlets and/or addiction, like gambling, alcohol, drugs.. hell, even more socially acceptable forms of entertainment, like tv/youtube/sfw streamers/etc. Parasocial relationships is a real, rapidly growing problem that vulnerable people are at high risk of clinging onto. We're definitely not the only industry with that problem, and people who take it too far will exist with or without the government's "help."

The Government thing, yeah good point. I was saying that in case there's a need to enforce legally camsites to do whatever. It was just a hypotetic case.
At least in Spain (and I guess in Europe) gambling laws regulates the advertising. That's the only thing I know, but I guess there's more than that.

Thank your for your third paragraph, that confirmed the question I had.

Oh, also this message with the link to mental heath resources/help, I did the same as a proposal in a reply here in this thread. So I guess I'm not wrong at all.

I'm happy there's room for debate.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

So I guess I'm not wrong at all.

I'm happy there's room for debate.

Again, you confuse me because we haven't said you are wrong, or that you personally can't reach out to members (be tactful, people are sensitive to this kind of conversation even when they are close to someone, moreso when it is a stranger). It seems like you don't like reading my replies because I didn't say I'm willing to take this additional work on as part of my job. Doesn't mean you can't do it yourself. Be the change, and all.

 

[rockin_rod]

Well we can block/ban members from our chats after the undesirable behavior takes place, and we can report them to the platforms. Sometimes they take action, sometimes they don't.

Not intending to hijack the thread, but it is related.
I really think it would be advantageous if all of the sites had a policy of reviewing the accounts of anyone who had been permanently banned from a certain number of rooms.
While not suggesting a direct link between bans and mental health, this might help to identify members who are repeatedly crossing the boundaries of models and/or the site.
After all, at least some of the sites are very quick to suspend the model's account if even one complaint is reported by a viewer, yet persistent troublemaker users seem to just be free to move on from room to room without any consequences.

 

[Highlander884]

Well I ended up on cb because I was going through the worst time in my life and it was a way to escape reality. Now my life is much better, I've suffered from depression since early childhood but can cope with it. Now on cb pretty much as a hobby/keeping in contact/being single and yeah lonely I guess (not sure what i would do when i next get into a relationship, would I completely quit or would I want my partner to join me, I dont really want to lose social contact with some girls).

From experience I've found that many people who actually chat and have a laugh rather then just say pervy shit have ended up members are because of needing to escaping reality (physical health problems seem most common)

People arent nesacrily going there looking for mental health support (ofc u get people who expect girls to be their shrinks) but sometimes things slip out especially if u chat to another member in pm.

Personally if I'm a mod in a room and another regular hints at something I'll check in on them via pm, just because, I would do the same in real world if social acquaintance seemed troubled (Although one of the models I mod for thinks I go looking for drama)


With models, well yes I think most models have other reasons and not just $ for being here (still the main reason ofc) but I'm not going to give details or try to explain because I'm no shrink, but I dont think for a minute webcamming is the cause of it.
I have seen girls before get addicted to broadcasting though.
But again I'm not saying every member or every model is there because of problems and needing to escape reality.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Not intending to hijack the thread, but it is related.
I really think it would be advantageous if all of the sites had a policy of reviewing the accounts of anyone who had been permanently banned from a certain number of rooms.
While not suggesting a direct link between bans and mental health, this might help to identify members who are repeatedly crossing the boundaries of models and/or the site.
After all, at least some of the sites are very quick to suspend the model's account if even one complaint is reported by a viewer, yet persistent troublemaker users seem to just be free to move on from room to room without any consequences.

I would hope there is something like this, so that an account with multiple reports is somehow flagged for manual human review. But in my years of experience, it is often like you say, the same users harassing performers day after day. Sometimes I wonder how much of it comes down to the fact that performers are overloaded with other things to do while live, and we don't always have the time to report it ourselves, and hope that someone else will do it. But I can't attribute every case to that benefit of the doubt situation. Maybe I don't understand "zero tolerance."

 

[ericlafayet]

Again, you confuse me because we haven't said you are wrong, or that you personally can't reach out to members (be tactful, people are sensitive to this kind of conversation even when they are close to someone, moreso when it is a stranger). It seems like you don't like reading my replies because I didn't say I'm willing to take this additional work on as part of my job. Doesn't mean you can't do it yourself. Be the change, and all.

I see you're still confused, I'm sorry I don't know how to explain it better. If there's any "additional work", I said that should be done by camsites/studios.

Of course, camsites are who should support you with resources to deal with those cases.

If you never find any case, cool. But there's a guy in this forum (now banned) that give us details on how he's stalking and harrasing a model. Having a tool/support for models or even users that could keep the user out of them while giving user some help/resources/whatever. Just sharing information when a case is detected. Could be automated just doing a click.

Maybe that proposal is ridiculous. It was just an idea. Taht's the reason I wanted to create a debate.

But again, there's nothing that models should work on individually, it makes no sense. Camsites/studios should work on a solution for all models/users that could need it.

 

[rockin_rod]

I would hope there is something like this, so that an account with multiple reports is somehow flagged for manual human review. But in my years of experience, it is often like you say, the same users harassing performers day after day. Sometimes I wonder how much of it comes down to the fact that performers are overloaded with other things to do while live, and we don't always have the time to report it ourselves, and hope that someone else will do it. But I can't attribute every case to that benefit of the doubt situation. Maybe I don't understand "zero tolerance."

Perhaps it was naive of me to assume that they don't already have such a flag/review system, but on balance maybe not.
The sheer number of users online at any time is massive, and I guess people get banned for many reasons, not always serious enough to be flagged by admin - including models kicking other models for hanging around (for whatever reason, like going on a whale hunt).
Definitely seems that the workload would account for the difference between someone being silenced, kicked or banned, and reported - troublemakers no doubt benefit from mostly receiving the lower end of the scale, and stay off the perma-ban/report radar, if there is such a thing.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

But again, there's nothing that models should work on individually, it makes no sense. Camsites/studios should work on a solution for all models/users that could need it.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain more, and I can agree with you on this part too.

I get that you are curious about potential ways to prevent harm and abuse on these platforms. I think that's great.

I don't think an automated message telling someone who has been banned that they need to seek help is going to work though. You saw how little attention (banned forum member you mentioned) paid to that suggestion here. People have to want help to accept it. People like that guy don't think they need help.