Daddy Daughter Psychology

[IsabellaSnow]

There are a few topics about this sort of thing, but not many. I was curious about this and did a bit of research online about the psychology. I found a lot of stuff about the psychology in women who have this fetish. This is not what I'm looking for. I'm curious about the psychology in men with this fetish. I searched for a while and couldn't find anything.

In women it's pretty clear that it's a harmless fetish. Reason being, the woman is the one being dominated/abused/cared for. Same with rape fantasies, which is something a lot of women have, in these fantasies the woman is rarely the actual rapist or is fantasising about raping men. Also women by nature tend to be less likely to act these things out in reality. We're not as visual and are more imagination based, so although lots of women enjoy roleplay, it's pretty clear that it's extremely rare for a woman to ever be interested in taking it into reality (not talking about roleplaying with a partner).

As a woman I think it's hard for me to comprehend what goes on in men's heads with fetishes like this. We have very different sexualities, and though men seem much more simple sexually, I still will never fully understand how they work.

Something that I have heard over my time on ACF being brought up, and have experienced while camming on occasion is when cam models meet a member with a daddy daughter fetish. I think for most, there's that scary moment of thinking "am I just playing along with a fetish that he would find disgusting in real life?" in the same way that it would be for any of our fetishes, or "am I encouraging someone to do something that could harm an innocent?"
With a complete stranger I think it's pretty much impossible to know, and honestly I don't know if there is a difference. Most of the time girls will chime up saying they have this sort of fetish, but I don't think that's the same. Men and women are so different in this area.

I accidentally wondered onto a forum about daddy daughter fetishes while looking for capped shows a few years ago and it has never left my mind. I read too many descriptions of men abusing their daughters, many children, and men encouraging others (seemingly on the fence) to do the same. It all sounded very true, but maybe it wasn't? This stuff does genuinely happen, there's no point hiding from that.
I assume a large amount of the men who have this fetish would never actually want to practise it in real life, but I actually know nothing about that.

I'm more curious about guys opinions on this. Those of you who have fetishes, not necessarily this one or ones this extreme, are they things that you want to be strictly fantasy or are they things that you are curious to try and bring into your real life?

Has anyone here actually read on the psychology of it? There are a whole bunch of reasons why women form this fetish, but I haven't found anything as to why men have this fetish, or the likelihood of acting on the fetish if they have it.
Ageplay goes with this, I think there are definitely some unanswered questions where people aren't sure if age play is just a fantasy they want to act with adults or if it's actually condoning pedophilia.

Bit of a weird subject, obviously I am very against any of these things happening in real life (as in not with a consenting adult you're not related to), but as for the fetish, well, I don't really have much of an opinion on it. I'd just like to have some more genuine information on it.

 

[eclipse76]

I think you are conflating two different things here: people who are into Daddy/Little girl relationships, and people who are into incest.

In women it's pretty clear that it's a harmless fetish. Reason being, the woman is the one being dominated/abused/cared for. Same with rape fantasies, which is something a lot of women have, in these fantasies the woman is rarely the actual rapist or is fantasising about raping men. Also women by nature tend to be less likely to act these things out in reality. We're not as visual and are more imagination based, so although lots of women enjoy roleplay, it's pretty clear that it's extremely rare for a woman to ever be interested in taking it into reality (not talking about roleplaying with a partner).

This would be a D/lg dynamic (bSDm).

I accidentally wondered onto a forum about daddy daughter fetishes while looking for capped shows a few years ago and it has never left my mind. I read too many descriptions of men abusing their daughters, many children, and men encouraging others (seemingly on the fence) to do the same. It all sounded very true, but maybe it wasn't? This stuff does genuinely happen, there's no point hiding from that.

That would be incest fantasy, not related to BSDM. (and a bunch of assholes if they are actually promoting to abuse people).

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Yeah you are confusing two fetishes. Daddy Dom's are into being a paternal caregiver role in a relationship which seems easy to understand.

Incest fantasy carries with it the lure of taboo ..edge play "am I really letting my mind go to this dark place" as well as.. For the male side if a daddy/daughter specific fantasy the power trip. Power over another person is a trip.. It releases hormones that can be intoxicating. When someone is young or innocent.. And has a family confection.. There is a role of corrupter ... It makes sense to me...

As for women having incest fantasies..I went through a stage when I was very very into this area.. Mostly into writing and reading erotica about it. And I can assure you there are plenty of females into it

Someone who cannot distinguish the difference between rigid Roleplay or fantasies about incest and actually committing incest ... That's the difference between a normal healthy Horny human and an abuser who needs help.

My other half enjoys rape fantasies with me. We have an agreement that includes him being able to take me with or without my consent (as this is already given). That does not make him a rapist.. The idea of actually talking someone would make him physically ill

 

[IsabellaSnow]

is there a difference? I mean I understand that some guys do the whole step dad thing and that's not so much incest and is more about the little girl things, but is the father/daughter fetish not tied to incest by nature?

I really don't know very much about this. Obviously everyone is different and enjoy fetishes for different reasons, but I'm talking about guys who are specifically into calling a girl their daughter, maybe talking about the mother, definitely specifically about someone they're related to. In most cases a young teen/pre teen or at least treating them in this way, but also the ones who are more into an adult daughter.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

is there a difference? I mean I understand that some guys do the whole step dad thing and that's not so much incest and is more about the little girl things, but is the father/daughter fetish not tied to incest by nature?

I really don't know very much about this. Obviously everyone is different and enjoy fetishes for different reasons, but I'm talking about guys who are specifically into calling a girl their daughter, maybe talking about the mother, definitely specifically about someone they're related to. In most cases a young teen/pre teen or at least treating them in this way, but also the ones who are more into an adult daughter.

Yes there is a difference.

And now you've added in age play too.. Which may or may not be included in daddy/little play as well add incest fantasy. I've read plenty of incest writings about adult daughters etc.

For every couple it's different but for most daddy/littles it's purely paternal ... Not incest fantasy. The difference is it describes a power exchange dynamic between them that is actually real... Incest is just a fantasy

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I should not post from my phone. So many autocorrect typos. Sorry! My phone doesnt like the word rape so changed it to rigid LOL

Isabella i feel like you're trying to box a fetish up into something neat and 4 sided, and its just.. not that neat. Sometimes I'm into the incest fantasy (not so much anymore? i grew out of it?) sometimes i just like to suck on Masters thumb and call him Daddy, and let him *take care of me* while still maintaining the dominant role in our relationship. Normally, as his slave, I am the caretaker. That really is ALL that Daddy/little means to us.

The incest fantasy? Its a fantasy that you can sustain for a play session/roleplay.. or for a fantasy in your head/story/porn BUT not for day to day life. Yet people live in Daddy/little 24/7 dynamics every day...

 

[AprilKitt]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.
yeah, there is obviously a big difference between fantasizing about incest and actually abusing your kids. you might have just found a website that wasn't meant to be fantasy... but honestly even if it was just fantasy, i think it's a good idea for people to take a serious look at where their kinks come from. there seems to be this general idea that fantasies are unchangeable and always okay but i don't necessarily think that's true. like, if you think about actual pedophilia... even if the thought of actually hurting a kid disgusts you, there might be something in your head you gotta work on if you fantasize about that kind of stuff. it's interesting to think about where the line is too, if that makes sense - like maybe this extends to "tamer" fetishes like fake incest/ddlg/rape fantasies but i dunno. it depends on the person. i'm personally into ddlg and some pretty extreme degradation (well, i guess "extreme" depends on who you ask!) but haven't really found anything harmful in myself that's led to it... not yet at least haha. anyway it's always a good thing to examine because your kinks might stem from some bad shit that you didn't even realise was in your head until you stepped back and looked at it.
btw i'm totally not saying that people should feel guilty about their kinks or anything like that, it's just that people are so quick to cry "stop shaming me!!" (understandably, since people who like bdsm or have certain fetishes are often attacked by people who don't understand at all, but you know) when thinking critically about their desires could actually benefit them in the end.

oh and it's obviously a whole different story in a public place outside of your head. you need to be super careful about fantasy blogs/forums that appear "real" to the outside world. if you're gonna do something like that you should really put a warning & explain that it's a fantasy in a visible place. that stuff can be triggering or, like you said, can actually encourage people who don't understand that it's all a fantasy to go through with disgusting shit (although i guess it's debatable as to whether they would have done it anyway).

 

[Red7227]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.

Because its ultimately based on the males own nature. He wants to dominate a woman, not win her respect. He just needs to find a willing sub. It doesn't require any effort on his part to maintain the relationship and his ability to dominate a woman is nothing more than innate male hardwiring. Matt Williams is a dom and rigger who worked for Kink for many years. His view is that any dom who will not sub at least occasionally is just a pervert.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm not really trying to box it up. I am just interested in all aspects of the fetish. Especially the psychology behind why people have those fetishes and how many men with these fetishes go through with them. I assume it's a small percentage, but I do not know.

Like I said, with female fantasies I understand them, and I know a lot of women have these fantasies, though it's extremely rare for women to act out these fantasies outside a safe environment, women as a rule with most fetishes are less likely to want visual confirmation.

There are also obviously people who enjoy acting out rape fantasies, and may masturbate over the thought of it, but also masturbate and get off over all sorts of other things. How about if someone soley gets turned on by the idea of rape or another similar fetish?

The reason I'm asking is because honestly I don't know. When looking up about the male psychology of it I went to a few forums where people were talking about it. One where a girl's boyfriend/fiance had a major daddy/daughter fetish, it seemed that his computer was actually loaded with the stuff in an more obsession type way. The woman was asking whether this is something she should be worried about. Some people were saying to run for her life and that she'd never know if they had children if they'd be safe. Some were going by the fact that a fetish/fantasy is harmless and the person with the fantasy probably wouldn't like the idea in real life. When reading it I thought it'd be interesting to hear what some of you guys think.

f you're gonna do something like that you should really put a warning & explain that it's a fantasy in a visible place. that stuff can be triggering or, like you said, can actually encourage people who don't understand that it's all a fantasy to go through with disgusting shit (although i guess it's debatable as to whether they would have done it anyway).

This is actually one of the dangerous things about the internet. To a normal person you might get a few idea's/new fetishes but you're hardly going to start raping people and abusing children just because you read something. But someone who has these thoughts and is trying to hide from them reading this stuff... Well it can be encouraging and can push them into acting. Reading people justifying this sort of thing can seem harmless to some people but to the wrong type of mind can make things worse. It's why you should be careful what you say and clear about where the line is between fantasy and reality. It's not really what I'm looking to go into in this thread, but it is one of the reasons I am interested in this subject.

This is also a little bit off topic but do you guys remember that whitepower dude (maybe whitemaster, I can't remember) who came to acf a while ago who had the fetish of having black slaves serving a white man. Just hearing the fetish made me feel sick to my stomach at the idea of it. But then there seemed to be plenty of black women who had that fetish and were happily conforming to his tastes. This particular dude came across as being a bastard who didn't understand the difference between his fetish and reality (judging by how he talked to Fox), but at the time it did make me think why this fetish disgusted me more than any other fetish degrading my sex? Was it because it was a new fetish to me? There are plenty of fetishes involving slaves without any racial implications that don't bother me, so maybe it was simply the race thing I didn't like.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.

Because its ultimately based on the males own nature. He wants to dominate a woman, not win her respect. He just needs to find a willing sub. It doesn't require any effort on his part to maintain the relationship and his ability to dominate a woman is nothing more than innate male hardwiring. Matt Williams is a dom and rigger who worked for Kink for many years. His view is that any dom who will not sub at least occasionally is just a pervert.

Sorry for the double post!

I think this is true Red, I think men have formed natures that want to dominate women and women have formed natures that enjoy being dominated. I think part of it is cultural, part of it is nature and part is nurture.

I have a theory about men and women. When you're young little girls grow up faster than boys. They are bigger and stronger. Many of them are actually quite mean to little boys. The boy grows up to about 12/13, suddenly he starts growing taller and his sister/female classmates stop growing. He starts growing strong and gaining muscles. About this point he starts getting told that being a man means he should be powerful and in control. Boy goes "Yes! Finally! Domination!" and enjoys his new status.
I believe it's the same with many racists. They get told "you should have a better position than other people by right because of your colour!" and they think "sweet!" then get annoyed when they're not actually given a great position and blame those people they were taught are lesser beings.

If it were just a nature thing then all men would be dominant over women and would enjoy dominance over women. I think a large part of it is how they're raised, how they were treated by both men and women when they were younger and what they were taught. People who are dominant a lot in life often like to be submissive. People who feel powerless often like being doms.

 

[eclipse76]

About this point he starts getting told that being a man means he should be powerful and in control. Boy goes "Yes! Finally! Domination!" and enjoys his new status.

In what parallel universe is this happening?
Do you have brothers who have been raised like that?!

 

[IsabellaSnow]

About this point he starts getting told that being a man means he should be powerful and in control. Boy goes "Yes! Finally! Domination!" and enjoys his new status.

In what parallel universe is this happening?
Do you have brothers who have been raised like that?!

Lol well not exactly like this, but there are things like people say "the man of the house" or "wearing the trousers", which I know even the nicest guys have seen lots of relationships work by this, when the man makes the final decisions in the household regardless of who brings home the most income. Boys get taught they're stronger than girls, they start getting treated differently, girls get taught to be good to men, we see plenty of television shows and read books that represent this idea. Even as children, I used to be stronger than my brother and cousins, yet being female meant the adults would leave me out of certain games and sports, telling me they aren't ladylike. As a child less so, but as I started getting older things changed.

Though I'm sure boys never actually think "yay domination!!" I think being told you're stronger and more important than girls, even by subtle messages in every day life, it's easy to start getting the idea that you have the right to be more powerful than a woman. I mean why wouldn't you? It hardly sounds like an unappealing idea. People like power over others. I think women also start believing that they're weaker than they are.

This is starting to change though, so now we're in a mix, we're all being taught mixed messages. Women on one hand are looking at history and being taught by their elders which teaches us to take a more submissive role, but then we're also taught to be strong and to aspire to be equal and not to accept bad treatment from men. Same with men, they're being taught they should have more power than women, but then it's not really working like that most of the time.

I think maybe some fetishes like domination fetishes (which seem to be extremely common in todays society) come from this confusion. For example I'm a very pro feminist woman, I like being equal and I believe men and women should be equal. I'm very against certain behaviour. Sex is pretty equal grounds, I'm neither dominant or submissive, but if I'm masturbating things that turn me on are things that I'd hate in real life, which is being dominated. Maybe it's the same for guys. Men who don't ever want to be dominant over a woman in real life might get a thrill out of doing it during sex. This theory actually goes with the research that men who have dominant fetishes have much more loving feelings towards women than men with submissive fetishes. Someone here mentioned that research, it was very interesting as thinking to the guys I've met on mfc who are "submissive", all of them tend to be a lot more aggressive/dominant with their fetishes.

What'd be very interesting would be to find out what sexual fantasies people had a hundred or a few hundred years ago compared to now. If women got as many thrills from being made submissive or if men got the same thrills from asserting dominance. I guess you could probably study other cultures, ones where the man still holds unquestioned domination over women.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.

Because its ultimately based on the males own nature. He wants to dominate a woman, not win her respect. He just needs to find a willing sub. It doesn't require any effort on his part to maintain the relationship and his ability to dominate a woman is nothing more than innate male hardwiring. Matt Williams is a dom and rigger who worked for Kink for many years. His view is that any dom who will not sub at least occasionally is just a pervert.

What a load of sexist bull. This gives men no credit.

The last time I remember reading about how different groups of humans have implicit "dominant" or "submissive" nature's it was a historical textbook talking about why white people are the naturally dominant race

 

[Red7227]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.

Because its ultimately based on the males own nature. He wants to dominate a woman, not win her respect. He just needs to find a willing sub. It doesn't require any effort on his part to maintain the relationship and his ability to dominate a woman is nothing more than innate male hardwiring. Matt Williams is a dom and rigger who worked for Kink for many years. His view is that any dom who will not sub at least occasionally is just a pervert.

What a load of sexist bull. This gives men no credit.

The last time I remember reading about how different groups of humans have implicit "dominant" or "submissive" nature's it was a historical textbook talking about why white people are the naturally dominant race

Humans are sexually dimorphic. In early human history males became larger and stronger so they can maintain harems and beat off rivals. Society for the last several thousand years has reinforced this by making women socially inferior. 50 years ago ion Victoria wife beating was a past time, not a crime. 40 years ago it was practically impossible to get a conviction for rape by a husband against a wife in Victoria because she was listed as chattels on the marriage certificate. These days western society might treat men and women as equals, but this is very recent and only applicable to small minority of the world's population.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

i always wonder about where desires come from too! especially with doms since i'm a sub haha. it is kinda weird how there's so much about the psychology behind rape fantasies, bdsm, etc from a straight female sub's perspective but not so much from a straight male dom's.

Because its ultimately based on the males own nature. He wants to dominate a woman, not win her respect. He just needs to find a willing sub. It doesn't require any effort on his part to maintain the relationship and his ability to dominate a woman is nothing more than innate male hardwiring. Matt Williams is a dom and rigger who worked for Kink for many years. His view is that any dom who will not sub at least occasionally is just a pervert.

What a load of sexist bull. This gives men no credit.

The last time I remember reading about how different groups of humans have implicit "dominant" or "submissive" nature's it was a historical textbook talking about why white people are the naturally dominant race

Humans are sexually dimorphic. In early human history males became larger and stronger so they can maintain harems and beat off rivals. Society for the last several thousand years has reinforced this by making women socially inferior. 50 years ago ion Victoria wife beating was a past time, not a crime. 40 years ago it was practically impossible to get a conviction for rape by a husband against a wife in Victoria because she was listed as chattels on the marriage certificate. These days western society might treat men and women as equals, but this is very recent and only applicable to small minority of the world's population.

This does not mean men or women have an innate dominant/submissive nature.
It means that society teaches us we do.


It'd be really awesome if we could stop doing that. Like now.

It is also only in comparatively recent western history that we have begun recognizing that all races are equal.

People of color were socially inferior, and people used reasoning like "their bodies are different from ours and built for hard labor/black skin doesn't burn so they're made to work in the sun"

The reason i bring the racial thing up is because you have to be pretty insane these days to argue that just because historically blacks were treated as inferior or the submissive-race, does not mean we recognize them as inferior or expect them to be submissive today.

So why do you think that throwing history's mistreatment of women, and teaching men that they are meant to be dominant/lead says anything about the *actual* innate nature of men and women?

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I seriously love you right now Lollipop!

I think it should also be noted that not every society in the world has treated women as lesser beings. There have been successful matriarchal societies where the roles are reversed. It is not common largely because of male's physical strength usually being superior and because of this many cultures have taught men for thousands of years that they have the right to be stronger, and that it's their nature to dominate. Like I said before, once people get taught that it becomes harder to get rid of. It's not that physically we have evolved since racism or sexism, it's that we've started educating ourselves that it is wrong. Currently though there are still many people alive who were alive when things were different, meaning we still hold certain beliefs.

Though I will agree that men by nature tend to be more aggressive which leads to dominance and enjoying dominance, that is testosterone and is a part of men's natures. I don't think that it's natural to treat women any specific way, that comes from culture, nurture, life experiences and personality. Testosterone doesn't discriminate by sex. If men were all creatures driven by testosterone then they would be more likely to be ripping each other's throats out 24/7 than wanting to dominate women. If a man can stop himself from hitting every man around, he can stop himself from harassing every woman around.

I believe that in 500 years sexism will practically be dead, and in 100 years it won't be an issue in western society. It's something that needs to die out.

 

[eclipse76]

About this point he starts getting told that being a man means he should be powerful and in control. Boy goes "Yes! Finally! Domination!" and enjoys his new status.

In what parallel universe is this happening?
Do you have brothers who have been raised like that?!

Lol well not exactly like this, but there are things like people say "the man of the house" or "wearing the trousers", which I know even the nicest guys have seen lots of relationships work by this, when the man makes the final decisions in the household regardless of who brings home the most income. Boys get taught they're stronger than girls, they start getting treated differently, girls get taught to be good to men, we see plenty of television shows and read books that represent this idea. Even as children, I used to be stronger than my brother and cousins, yet being female meant the adults would leave me out of certain games and sports, telling me they aren't ladylike. As a child less so, but as I started getting older things changed.

Though I'm sure boys never actually think "yay domination!!" I think being told you're stronger and more important than girls, even by subtle messages in every day life, it's easy to start getting the idea that you have the right to be more powerful than a woman. I mean why wouldn't you? It hardly sounds like an unappealing idea. People like power over others. I think women also start believing that they're weaker than they are.

I don't think that's how boys are raised in today's society. They are told since a very young age by medias, teachers, etc… that girls are more mature than them, that they are more responsible. It's a common trope in advertisements and soap operas: the bubbly dad, the idiot boyfriend. There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).
Boys are also told to be good to girls, to cater to their needs, to never hits them (which fit their traditional gender role).

I think maybe some fetishes like domination fetishes (which seem to be extremely common in todays society) come from this confusion. For example I'm a very pro feminist woman, I like being equal and I believe men and women should be equal. I'm very against certain behaviour. Sex is pretty equal grounds, I'm neither dominant or submissive, but if I'm masturbating things that turn me on are things that I'd hate in real life, which is being dominated. Maybe it's the same for guys. Men who don't ever want to be dominant over a woman in real life might get a thrill out of doing it during sex. This theory actually goes with the research that men who have dominant fetishes have much more loving feelings towards women than men with submissive fetishes. Someone here mentioned that research, it was very interesting as thinking to the guys I've met on mfc who are "submissive", all of them tend to be a lot more aggressive/dominant with their fetishes.

I don't think what you do in your bedroom has anything to do with your belief system. I know feminists who are submissive and other who are Dom. But I think a lot of misogynists are masquerading as Dom: disregarding consent, boundaries and safety, not thinking their sub as their equal, but as inferior to them. Tumblr is so filled with these that it's almost a meme of its own. Your theory sounds right to me but not for faux-Dom true-abusers.

 

[Red7227]

This does not mean men or women have an innate dominant/submissive nature.
It means that society teaches us we do.


It'd be really awesome if we could stop doing that. Like now.

It is also only in comparatively recent western history that we have begun recognizing that all races are equal.

People of color were socially inferior, and people used reasoning like "their bodies are different from ours and built for hard labor/black skin doesn't burn so they're made to work in the sun"

The reason i bring the racial thing up is because you have to be pretty insane these days to argue that just because historically blacks were treated as inferior or the submissive-race, does not mean we recognize them as inferior or expect them to be submissive today.

So why do you think that throwing history's mistreatment of women, and teaching men that they are meant to be dominant/lead says anything about the *actual* innate nature of men and women?

OK, you are apparently too stupid to read so I will read so I will leave you ladies to argue this point. Try getting your boyfriend to comment if he dares.

 

[KayleePond]

This does not mean men or women have an innate dominant/submissive nature.
It means that society teaches us we do.


It'd be really awesome if we could stop doing that. Like now.

It is also only in comparatively recent western history that we have begun recognizing that all races are equal.

People of color were socially inferior, and people used reasoning like "their bodies are different from ours and built for hard labor/black skin doesn't burn so they're made to work in the sun"

The reason i bring the racial thing up is because you have to be pretty insane these days to argue that just because historically blacks were treated as inferior or the submissive-race, does not mean we recognize them as inferior or expect them to be submissive today.

So why do you think that throwing history's mistreatment of women, and teaching men that they are meant to be dominant/lead says anything about the *actual* innate nature of men and women?

OK, you are apparently too stupid to read so I will read so I will leave you ladies to argue this point. Try getting your boyfriend to comment if he dares.

This seems to be a disproportionate response Red. I think we often have discussions where we disagree with one another but can still be civil. When we can do that, people usually learn a lot too which I know I always appreciate. You can become impassioned or upset and it's ok to reflect that in your post, but I don't think that directly insulting someone with a differing opinion will help anyone.

Miss Lollipop is actually *especially* wonderful about admitting she is wrong or read something wrong if that is indeed the case. I'm not saying that's true here because of course I couldn't say if she read wrong or if she opposes the true intent of your post, but I think that if you replied with something more along the lines of "I think you might have misunderstood me, [THIS] is what I meant." there would have then been an opportunity to clarify and continue a decent and interesting discussion. Either she'd still disagree with your true point or would have a different perspective but it still makes for a better conversation all the way around.

I love when we can all be reasonable while discussing things, especially when people flat out disagree. I think that everyone benefits which is not the case with insults. I also think that sometimes insults fly on this forum that seem a bit more warranted, but this one seemed to escalate a little fast. I'd just love to hear more of thoughts and opinions rather than have the conversation come to a full stop.

 

[Camgirl]

Lolli makes a very intelligent, well written post debating a topic, asking a very sensible question at the end of her post. The response is that she is too "stupid" to read....? LMFAO. Interesting contradiction.

If the need to dominate women is ingrained in men, how do we explain the D/s roles where the men are the subs? Does this mean their is something wrong with these men inherently, that they are going "against" what they are instinctively wired to do?

I think it would be very difficult to explain the psychology behind the D/s Daddy/l fetish in a nice neat little box, but this is a really interesting thread and hope the discussion continues.

Edited: Hit post too soon.

 

[Gen]

There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).

I disagree with the role models aspect; there are certainly a lot of poor representations of men in media but overall it is easy to find powerful, accomplished, respected men in literally any field you look. Little boys who want to be the president, or a famous musician, or a scientist, or a movie director, or a plumber, or whatever can easily find men to look up to. I don't think those consequences are a fault of poor role models, although I do agree with those things being rarely noticed by the public.

(Male suicide especially is a huge one and something I think needs to be discussed and addressed a LOT more often; this is a really informative article I read recently about it: http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epi ... le-suicide)

I don't think what you do in your bedroom has anything to do with your belief system. I know feminists who are submissive and other who are Dom. But I think a lot of misogynists are masquerading as Dom: disregarding consent, boundaries and safety, not thinking their sub as their equal, but as inferior to them. Tumblr is so filled with these that it's almost a meme of its own. Your theory sounds right to me but not for faux-Dom true-abusers.

I agree with this a lot, especially the prevalence of faux-Doms who disregard boundaries and think of their subs as inferior. I actually saw an interesting post about this on Tumblr where a phone-sex domme posted about treating her subs as inferiors, they are scum, etc and another domme replied about how that shouldn't be confused with real, careful BDSM and that doms should not be mistreating their subs or thinking of them as less-than. I know very little about that kind of stuff but it was interesting to see the multiple perspectives and discussion about it.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I'm very sorry I upset you enough by apparently miss-reading/misunderstanding your point enough to want to call me names. It was not my intention. I hope you're OK. People misunderstand stuff a lot around here in this world, and if it upsets you this much that you start name calling you really are going to be in for a pretty rough ride. Or at least a lonely, boring one.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I agree with this a lot, especially the prevalence of faux-Doms who disregard boundaries and think of their subs as inferior. I actually saw an interesting post about this on Tumblr where a phone-sex domme posted about treating her subs as inferiors, they are scum, etc and another domme replied about how that shouldn't be confused with real, careful BDSM and that doms should not be mistreating their subs or thinking of them as less-than. I know very little about that kind of stuff but it was interesting to see the multiple perspectives and discussion about it.

I had someone from the consensual-kink brigade attack me with a bunch of buddies on twitter for making a tweet that had a picture of a guy being humliated and said "submissive men are so pathetic, but i love them so"..

THey took it as me saying ALL submissive men were pathetic. Period.
It made me stop and pause... but essentially i felt like it had to be taken in the context of my twitterfeed which was filled with marketing material SPECIFICALLY targeting and trying to turn on/draw in new customers who were submissive men into humiliation.

I did clarify what I had intended, but ultimately decided not to apologize because I felt like the people attacking me were being *incredibly* rude with the way they approached it - and because it wasn't a hate filled rant about sub men. It had followed a tweet about a session id done with a male who liked to be humiliated for his small penis.

I dunno. Humiliation is such..icky .. muddy water sometimes. When you market to clients that get off on it, you do want to say things that are going to be really derogatory.

One of the best quotes I ever read about it said "All play should have the spirit of RESPECT even if the scene itself is anything but respectful"

If you do not acknowledge that someone is human, and has basic rights and dignities and respect that.. then you're not really holding them with the spirit of RESPECT. Even though i think its fine to consensually strip them of that respect... when it comes to play/fantasy..

 

[Sevrin]

There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).

I disagree with the role models aspect; there are certainly a lot of poor representations of men in media but overall it is easy to find powerful, accomplished, respected men in literally any field you look. Little boys who want to be the president, or a famous musician, or a scientist, or a movie director, or a plumber, or whatever can easily find men to look up to. I don't think those consequences are a fault of poor role models, although I do agree with those things being rarely noticed by the public.

You have a very narrow view of what kind of role models young men are looking for. Fuck presidents and rock stars. Boys and young men are looking for role models on how to be a good man. That's what they're not finding enough of, and TV role models can't teach you that.

 

[Gen]

There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).

I disagree with the role models aspect; there are certainly a lot of poor representations of men in media but overall it is easy to find powerful, accomplished, respected men in literally any field you look. Little boys who want to be the president, or a famous musician, or a scientist, or a movie director, or a plumber, or whatever can easily find men to look up to. I don't think those consequences are a fault of poor role models, although I do agree with those things being rarely noticed by the public.

You have a very narrow view of what kind of role models young men are looking for. Fuck presidents and rock stars. Boys and young men are looking for role models on how to be a good man. That's what they're not finding enough of, and TV role models can't teach you that.

I think that's a bit of an assumption of my views; careers are obviously only one aspect of role models but I think it's an important one. Personally I feel differently about finding good men, but as a girl I probably look for different things so you're right that I could be missing a lot. However I think there are great men who are parents, teachers, coaches, etc who can (and do) model what I'd consider to be a good man. But I suppose it depends on who you know and have in your life whether you'd have that or not, and obviously it can be cyclical. Just my view anyway.

 

[Sevrin]

There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).

I disagree with the role models aspect; there are certainly a lot of poor representations of men in media but overall it is easy to find powerful, accomplished, respected men in literally any field you look. Little boys who want to be the president, or a famous musician, or a scientist, or a movie director, or a plumber, or whatever can easily find men to look up to. I don't think those consequences are a fault of poor role models, although I do agree with those things being rarely noticed by the public.

You have a very narrow view of what kind of role models young men are looking for. Fuck presidents and rock stars. Boys and young men are looking for role models on how to be a good man. That's what they're not finding enough of, and TV role models can't teach you that.

I think that's a bit of an assumption of my views; careers are obviously only one aspect of role models but I think it's an important one. Personally I feel differently about finding good men, but as a girl I probably look for different things so you're right that I could be missing a lot. However I think there are great men who are parents, teachers, coaches, etc who can (and do) model what I'd consider to be a good man. But I suppose it depends on who you know and have in your life whether you'd have that or not, and obviously it can be cyclical. Just my view anyway.

The ones who are strung out and/or committing suicide? It's not because no one showed them how to make a million dollars.

 

[Alexandra Cole]

Has anyone here actually read on the psychology of it? There are a whole bunch of reasons why women form this fetish, but I haven't found anything as to why men have this fetish, or the likelihood of acting on the fetish if they have it.

Roleplay scenarios tend to be shorthand for something else, a way to isolate and intensify a certain sexual experience, or bring about a certain state of mind.

That's abstract - here's a roleplay scenario as an example: He's happily married. He doesn't want to cheat, but I've been teasing him all day and I've slowly sweet-talked his cock into my hands. He's resistant, but he knows I could force him against his will if I tried. And I happen to enjoy that, so I whisper in his ear and... so on.

If I said, "I'm into this fantasy of forcing a guy to cheat against his will," it sounds like it's about breaking up a marriage. But the details have nothing to do with it. It's about his internal and external struggle when he's fighting the urge to come, the way his body looks and feels and the sounds he makes, and it's about that moment when he gives in, in spite of himself. I can get that from touch - teasing and edging - but the psychology of roleplay magnifies it.

The scenario could just as easily be something else. I could be corrupting a religious zealot with my devil-hands, or slow-teasing a young virgin who's horribly nervous, or sexually harassing an employee, or blackmailing my neighbor, or confronting the peeping tom who jerks off outside my window. Point being: when someone has a Daddy/daughter scenario in mind, it isn't necessarily about dads or daughters. It could be about innocence, or the experience of discovery, or uncertainty, or particular approach to domination, all protection and a firm hand, or something darker and corruptive, or a shared Nabokov fetish, with the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps.

It's just important to be clear on the distinction between someone who uses fantasy with a consenting partner to access a specific experience, and someone who doesn't recognize it as a fantasy at all.

And as a kink, I don't think it's possible to generalize. The roles themselves don't have meaning, and they aren't literal, so what it is and why they enjoy it depends on the individual and how they use it. That's been my experience, at least.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm really loving the posts that have been written here, thank you so much to everyone who's been replying! Alexandra your post was awesome. It really gave me an insight to what those sorts of fetishes could be about. I feel like I'm starting to get a better understanding of the complexity of it. I'm loving the other routes this thread is taking too. It really is a fascinating subject, and one that won't ever have any solid answers, which is why everyone's thoughts on it are important.

I don't think that's how boys are raised in today's society. They are told since a very young age by medias, teachers, etc… that girls are more mature than them, that they are more responsible. It's a common trope in advertisements and soap operas: the bubbly dad, the idiot boyfriend. There is in fact a great lack of role models for boys, and its consequences are fairly unnoticed by the general public (ie high suicide rate, failures at school, lack of enrollment in higher education).
Boys are also told to be good to girls, to cater to their needs, to never hits them (which fit their traditional gender role).

It's a lovely thought that all boys are taught these good messages, and many are, but I have noticed that boys who are taught these things throughout their youth have a very different approach to women than boys who have only heard it in passing. Unfortunately a fair amount of men I meet, possibly the majority, don't seem to have had heard this message in more than passing thought.

Men are taught a load of mixed messages in their youth. Young men today have been taught by a different generation, one that includes plenty of people who don't feel women should be equal. It's all very well to say that all boys are taught to be good to women, cater to their needs and not hit them, but the truth is that they're not. Some boys are taught this. Not all. And some boys are told this but see people around them contradicting it.

For example, my grandfather on my fathers side is sexist. He has never taught my father to do anything wrong, but he's seen his relationship with my grandmother, heard passing comments he makes. I wouldn't say my father is sexist, in fact he married a very educated very strong willed woman, but... he occasionally will make comments that come straight from his father. He doesn't even notice them, but both me and my brother do. Because of this my brother has also picked up a very water down'd attitude. He is not sexist and as far as I can see treats women pretty well, but he will make occasional comments and occasionally a different attitude will come out. He also does not see that the treatment I was given was not nearly as good as his own. It's hard to notice sometimes if you're getting better treatment, but it's almost impossible to miss if you're the one getting less.

I think it's very easy for a man to say that boys and men are taught these great morals, but I think the other messages they get taught contradict those messages. As a woman I understand what it feels like to be in a world ruled by predominantly men. It's not like I feel like I'm treated badly, but every day I'll hear casual sexism. Imagine what it'd be like for a black person to live in a duel cultural society where on a daily basis people would make mild derogatory comments, or make jokes about their race being weaker/less, even people who don't seem to believe those thoughts. The comments aren't made in a nasty way, it's a culture thing, and to a point you do get used to it, but I also think it's not acceptable behaviour, and the behaviour does exist.

One thing that this behaviour is encouraging is women acting the same. I've noticed more and more women trying to act like men and trying to copy things that men say about us. The irony can be kind of funny but I still don't feel it's right. All it really does is encourages men to do the same. I know guys who've had their bum grabbed a few times in their lives who tell me I'm being over sensitive if I complain about being grabbed because they've liked it. They don't tend to like it though when it comes aggressively from random dudes several times a night whenever they go out, which is what I get. Women who grab bums are just justifying and encouraging that it's ok for men to do the same. Maybe those women don't mind but I sure as hell do!

OK, you are apparently too stupid to read so I will read so I will leave you ladies to argue this point. Try getting your boyfriend to comment if he dares.

I'm just going to add that this is absolutely uncalled for. I actually agreed with both yours and Lolli's posts. They are from different angles. I will say though I agree with Lolli's post more, and I feel that she did read and understand your post. Though I agree with you that men by nature, nurture and culture have lived in a world for a long time where it's been ok to dominate women. I think men by nature enjoy dominating, this isn't so much to do with women, but just to do with how they are. Actually women are the same but not quite as much. It's a human thing. We like hierarchy. Not all men are alphas, and not all men aspire to be alphas. Exactly the same as women. There are many men and women who want to serve both women and men and many who want to dominate them. If it were a male nature thing then every man would want to dominate women and would have trouble not raping women. I think the idea of men dominating women is actually more a culture thing.
I agree with Lollipop that many men and women using this as an excuse is not a good thing. Saying that it's men's nature to basically want to treat women like dirt only justifies people doing so. It's like some guys use nature as an excuse for perving on teens. If that were true then there wouldn't be a large amount of men who find the idea of getting with a teenager unappealing and even disgusting.