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Elections are coming up

Discussion in 'Random Chat' started by MSlider, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. MSlider

    V.I.P. AmberLander

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    I'll probably make myself real unpopular with this. There are a lot of things to think about in the coming election. I'm not going to push any agenda other then no one seems to be looking at how far in debt this country is. I'm old enough probably no big deal for me but you younger people need to think about the future. It seems to me that we've maybe failed the people coming into being 20 and 30. So just trying to open a dialog to see what others think.
     
  2. MSlider

    V.I.P. AmberLander

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    I think Bill Gates made an excellent comment in that robot workers should be taxed as employees.
     
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  3. Bocefish

    In the Dog House

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    Well, Obama couldn't have cared less about the national deficit nor did he have a clue how much it was. He seems to think we owe ourselves somehow.



    China holds a large portion of our debt and could really hurt the United States if they wanted to.

    Politicians on both sides of the aisle talk a good game about the deficit, yet once in office, they rack up the debt with little to no concern about anything other than being re-elected.

    Has Trump done any better?
     
  4. MSlider

    V.I.P. AmberLander

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    I agree but I don't think any president in some time has been fiscally responsible.
     
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  5. DFT

    DFT

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    Boce, you're old enough to remember when Japan was going to buy Manhattan and LA and lease them back to us. Being in a boom economy of their own they overleveraged - and still haven't recovered.

    And they didn't have a series of ghost cities like China does. Trump changing position on policy to save ZTE may have prevented their economy from collapse. Opinions vary, but that a single phone manufacturer even could be the linchpin to their economy shows how fragile it is.

    When China hits the wall like Japan did that debt will be bought back for pennies on the dollar. Does that benefit you or me? Nope. Other than some piece of mind China isn't going to own us anytime soon.

    Besides, they're too busy buying up Africa for nothing. Colonialism lives while we protest Columbus Day.

    Might have, in my view, doesn't matter. The President, even with the ever expanding powers, still doesn't make many domestic economic decisions. That's supposed to be Congress' job, but they've been asleep at the wheel like Teddy Kennedy for decades. Luckily the wheel of the ship is tended by nameless bureaucrats who abide as administrations change, and for all the jokes, they're steering the ship pretty well. Even the named ones are rarely rockstars. Name of the current Federal Reserve chairman? Even if you got it you had to think about it.
     
  6. DFT

    DFT

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    A human sews your underwear, gets taxed, costs you 3¢ on a $12 product. A machine does it for .005¢ . Costs you the same. No, the machine doesn't have sick days or vacation, but the company doesn't buy their employees. I hope.

    Thank you. I didn't know Bill had gone quite that nuts. So we tax machines that replace humans in industry. Do we start today, say all machines that have come before are exempt and only tax "robots" going forward? True robots are lab rarities and what he's talking about are task specific machines. You know, like assembly line car company "robots". If we tax machines replacing human labor and don't exempt prior art that's the complete collapse of agriculture overnight. Tractors, combines, they replace 6-300 people per instance. Same in manufacturing. Stocking shelves, and your first job.

    How much do we tax a wrench? A lever is a machine after all.

    So Bill wants to impose a tax on things that have aided workers since the lever was invented, which comes at raising the price of the product sold to the consumer who no longer has a job.

    Suddenly the "Right to repair" John Deere has been fighting becomes trivial.
     
  7. Tracerhead

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    I won't get involved in the political discussion and just say that everyone should vote regardless of your political viewpoint. We only get a truly representative government when everyone chooses who represents them. Apathy is the worst possible thing to have in a Democracy.
     
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  8. Gen

    Gen
    Cam Model

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    Hijacking this thread because it kind of fits.

    Do y’all think it’s better to vote even if you’re uninformed (eg, “my parents/friends all vote for this party so I will too”, randomly picking a name on the list), or not vote at all?

    I don’t really have a solid opinion but I think with all the pressure to vote, I wonder how people feel about uninformed voters.
     
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  9. Tracerhead

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    Well, being uninformed really comes down to just not having a desire to be otherwise. In this especially charged political environment just going on the internet or watching the news is going to give you some level of information. I believe that you should go deeper and actually read politician's agendas and beliefs, but I also have a political science degree and care about those things. In my opinion simply voting straight ticket a party because your family does, or because it's your chosen party is almost as bad as not voting at all. It's that type of tribal thinking that is the core of many of the political conflicts both in this country and around the world. People get more caught up in the fact that their political party is "right" than in actually looking at the best way to handle a certain problem, or who is the most qualified for the position.
     
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  10. justjoinedtopost

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    Grew up hearing about the debt (and the Fed, and the IRS)...people have been looking at it for a long time.

    If the 20-30 crowd has been failed, it seems to me the biggest failure has been hiding the truth behind a facade of "democratic institutions" (that truth being that we are lorded over by crime syndicates the likes of which the world has never seen).

    http://www.eutimes.net/2016/10/hill...-to-qatar-central-bank-stuns-financial-world/

    This looks to me like a hit piece; silly conspiratorial shit thrown out a month before the 2016 election. It also contains truths that cannot be hidden with disingenous accusations of 'racism' or 'misogyny'.

    Just the tip of the iceberg I am afraid. Throw the Bush cartel's corruption into the pot...
    sprinkle it with the Panama Papers, Wikileaks...
    stir in a documentary or two about bribery and coverups re. the global arms/drug/human trafficking trade...
    simmer it all for a few decades while you ponder a thousand other smaller scandals and injustices that have come and gone, largely unnoticed...
    remove from heat, strain out as much of the disinfo as you can, and roll it all up into a ball.....
    this is a recipe for one huge-ass blackpill that is never going to taste like "democracy", no matter how many times the word gets fashionably parroted while you are trying to choke it down.

    Fortunately, this midterm election was a no-brainer. Poll worker told me they were seeing more early voting than the last two. I have no idea if they were telling the truth, much less what it might mean for our republic.
     
  11. ForceTen

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    IMO, it's much worse. Because it says you don't give a shit about what they do so long as you vote your party. It's why in the Kavanaugh/Ford thread I made the posts I did on this page.

    Far too many people look at politics as "Us vs. Them". Blue vs Red. They make blanket statements, and will condemn anyone who may have a dissenting opinion. It's kind of seen on the forum as well. I would think that the people here would be much more open to dissenting opinion.

    I'm all for people making informed votes. Is part of the reason why I disagree with ballots having political party affiliation, as well as "incumbent" written on them.
     
  12. Gen

    Gen
    Cam Model

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    Why? (Hard to ask a one word question without sounding combative; it’s not intended that way, just curious.)
     
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  13. ForceTen

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    No worries, I'm not taking it as being combative.

    As to why, given the fact that the members here are associated in some way or another with a societal "taboo" topic, and wanting to be treated with some level of respect on par with "vanilla" jobs. Based on that, I'd think that people would be more open to views opposite of theirs. Even if they don't agree, there can be a level of understanding and not be combative. I don't mean "open" in terms of changing views. Just more of knowing others have dissenting opinions, and respect them for it even if don't agree with it.

    As an FYI, I'm using "respect" in the terms of showing basic courtesy to them. I'm one who believes that even if we have major disagreements, show basic respect/courtesy to someone, even if none is shown in return. A key point to preventing something from escalating is to not be combative.

    Hopefully that makes sense.
     
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  14. Gen

    Gen
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    Thanks for answering :)

    Re: informed voting. There is a local election coming up, with 158 candidates running for 27 positions (mayor, school board, parks, city council). I’ve been actively trying to inform myself on each position and candidate, but fuck that’s a lot to wade through. Generally speaking I’m advantaged because I have the time to read it all, the technical ability to navigate it/do further research, enough education to at least somewhat read between the lines of their campaign promises, and I’m pretty motivated to do it. So it’s leading me to think about how we encourage people to vote and how they can educate themselves when it’s pretty labour-intensive to do so.

    Obviously it’s good that so many people are interested in running! It’s just SO MUCH to comb over all of the parties and their platforms, especially if you want to really dig in. And I think the bigger the position (like president vs small town school board), the harder it is to narrow down facts and even accurate portrayals of their positions. The internet has definitely made it easier in some ways but also easier to spread ~fake news~ and propaganda.

    Tricky stuff!
     
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  15. ForceTen

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    You're welcome. :)

    Agreed, there's so much info out there. Sometimes it's difficult to track down the smaller city stuff. But, I've found a few sites that will show all of the candidates broken down by precint. Local papers also generally have some info, so should be able to hit their websites also. :)

    It takes time to dig through information, no doubt. I usually don't start to really look at candidates until they print the ballots so a month out. In my state, I can't vote in primaries because I don't belong to a party. Though, I wish they'd open it up to everyone so we can vote for the best candidate out of the different parties as they go through the process.
     
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  16. SaffronBurke

    Cam Model

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    I like to sit down with my absentee ballot and my phone and research everyone. I don't watch TV or listen to the radio, and I have ad block on all of my browsers, so I don't hear/see a single political ad ever. I just jump into the googles and see what everyone's done in the past, determine if that aligns with what they're promising to do in the current election, and pick the ones I agree with.
     
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  17. Poison_Ivy21

    Cam Model

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    But yah know, if you have friends that are particularly informed on politics, I see nothing wrong with leaning on them for information. If you both prioritize certain issues and value similar things, why not trust their choices?

    I have a lot of very politically apathetic friends. They know I give a lot of shits about these things so I explain to them who I’m voting for and why. Asking your friends these questions is a great way to spread information and get a discussion going about the importance of voting.

    Frankly, my number one priority is widespread access to safe and affordable abortion. Simply because not being able to get one, of ever needed, is the stuff my worst nightmares are made of. This makes deciding who to vote for, especially in a state like Texas, very simple. Straight blue ticket, every time. The party that wants to take away my choice in a very personal matter is one I can never cast a vote for.
     
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  18. dilligaf0

    V.I.P. AmberLander

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    I have more issues with how people treat dissenting opinions. Disagreeing is one thing. Doing so by name calling and other childish reactions just shows how unable some people are to have intelligent discussions.

    Asking friends is one way of getting information. Personally I feel more comfortable if I research the information / opinions they tell me before forming my opinions.
     
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  19. KMH

    KMH
    Cam Model

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    Oh boy, a political thread! What could possibly go wrong? :hilarious:

    I wish there was a solid way of finding out what the % of people who choose not to vote are anarchists. People tend to forget they exist outside of memes.

    While the memes are great, it's saddening to see them brushed off as being "lazy" or "uniformed" when they feel strongly enough about their beliefs to not let peer pressure push them outside of their ideology.


    Whether you're voting or not voting, so long as you have come to an informed decision about what you're doing, and are not pressured by anybody else to think otherwise, I believe that you are doing the right thing. :h:

    If you're voting, good luck on your chosen party this election!
     
  20. ForceTen

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    Agreed, and it is what I am referring to when I was saying respect their views. We can disagree. But, let's be civil about it when/if we talk about it.


    Agreed. Some people are good about it, and share correct info and nuetral bias. Most, not so.
     
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  21. ForceTen

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    Honest question:. If there was a moderate/centrist running under Republican ticket that you agreed on everything with, and they supported your top priority of safe/affordable abortion, would you cross the line and vote for this candidate?
     
  22. Gen

    Gen
    Cam Model

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    I agree with this! My friends know my values and leanings. I’d trust (some of) them to fill me in if I didn’t do it myself. My best friend asked me to share my choices for our election and will probably follow my vote because we have the same opinions for the most part.

    Also wanted to say I think it’s really cool to know your very top priority! I’m not sure what mine is tbh. It changes based on the climate and level (locally it’s housing issues, federally it varies).
     
  23. Poison_Ivy21

    Cam Model

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    Pointless question because that wouldn’t happen. But no, I wouldn’t. Too many republicans have said too much ridiculous stuff about abortion. I can’t stomach supporting the party at all. My second priority is the US joining the rest of the industrialized world and socializing medicine. Anyone supporting that platform is not a Republican.
     
  24. Poison_Ivy21

    Cam Model

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    @Gen

    I guess really my #1 priority is somehow addressing income inequality. Since we’re creeping up on pre French Revolution levels. But abortion is the easy eliminator, yah know? If a candidate doesn’t support it, I don’t need to hear anything more from them.
     
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  25. ForceTen

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    Wouldn't happen in that you'd never vote for someone, or that you don't believe there are Pro-Choice Republicans? Would you believe that there's Pro-Life Democrats?

    I think both parties are extremely corrupt, and is why I am an independent. But, what I can't figure out is how people can continue to blindly support the parties when they've both shown they do not have their members' interest at heart and are extremely self-serving. Especially when the DNC has shown its level of corruption in the 2016 election and more or less told its members to fuck off because the party can do whatever the fuck it wants. Now, in 2018, there's lawsuits to block legitimate third party candidates from being on the ballot.

    Here's an interesting article about an interview with Bernie Sanders and his views on political parties as well as where he sees America is headed with billionaires in both parties.

    Yep, American politics at its finest...
     
  26. Poison_Ivy21

    Cam Model

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    @ForceTen
    I understand that politics is corrupt across the board. Still doesn’t change the fact that, as a whole, one party is more keen on reducing woman’s autonomy than another. Does a small handful of pro choice republicans matter when the most of the party are pro forced birth?

    Again, too many republican leaders have said too much fucked up shit about women and abortion. I can’t support any of them. If you were
    impregnable, you might see my view a bit easier.
     
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  27. ForceTen

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    @Poison_Ivy21 I completely understand it, and I support pro-choice.

    My point is, the fact remains that by continuing to support a party that has blatantly stated they do not care about their members wishes, and make a mockery of the voting process, it's no different than what you are saying about how bad the republican party is. Many are bitching about how the Republican control all three houses right now, and have a majority on the Supreme Court. But, what happens if the Democrats have control of them all? Same thing, but in a differen context. It's bad when one party controls all three. It's best when there's some semblance of balance of power at all times.
     
  28. dilligaf0

    V.I.P. AmberLander

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    I am an independent (not affiliated with either party) voter. I see what the candidate says as well as researching what they have said in the past. I also research how they have voted (for those already in office).
    I'm not saying it's a perfect system. All I can do is try to be as informed as possible before I vote.
    I will not vote for any person spouting hateful, racist even Nazi type views.
     
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  29. abercrombiesucks

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    Democrats had almost become blatant about this I feel. Coasting on social conditioning and preconceived notions for way too long. Barely even bothering to pay lip service to the most loyal of the party. Like damn, at least give people some false hope if you expect them to go out and vote for you. Or be less obvious about how you see them as pawns.
     
  30. ForceTen

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    Almost? They are blatant about it, even said so when Bernie Sander's supporters sued the DNC because of how it favoured one candidate over the other. [rul=https://observer.com/2017/05/dnc-averts-democracy-lawsuit-bernie-sanders-supporters/]Another article[/url].

    Side note, here's something interesting from the first link: The DNC used to keep black voters out of it's primaries, because they preferred white people. Interesting how they are using the courts to control the voting process. Between this article, the DNC suing the Green Party (linked in my previous post), as well as theym blatantly stating in court they don't have to be fair and impartial and can do as they please because they are a corporation...

    Yeah, really makes me wonder why anyone supports any party at all. I'm picking on the DNC here because some people think they're infallable. The DNC is just as corrupt as the RNC
     

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