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Flat Earth theory

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I find the trend towards abandoning the scientific method disturbing, and alarming.

In the short span of human existence, it wasn't too long ago people were being burned as witches. Lead was being used as a spice. And babies were dying at birth because dr didn't wash their hands.

And right now there is an outbreak of measles due to anti vaccine movement.
 
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Here is what I wondered about the flat earth thing....why? I mean I remember hearing about flat earthers, hollow earthers, planet X stuff like that 20 years ago. Struck me as silly then, and when it started popping up again a couple years ago, it pretty much seemed like contentious bickering was the only real goal. Or at least outcome.

Truthfully, I wonder more about the celebrity endorsements it received than anything else.

Like the water swirling in a toilet bowl, it makes a few full revolutions before finally being flushed away. Not picking on Flat Earth specifically, saying it more in general with how things tend to cycle in and out of "fashion" if you will.
 
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I find the trend towards abandoning the scientific method disturbing, and alarming.

In the short span of human existence, it wasn't too long ago people were being burned as witches. Lead was being used as a spice. And babies were dying at birth because dr didn't wash their hands.

And right now there is an outbreak of measles due to anti vaccine movement.


The anti-vax movement is dangerous because it has killed people and if it gets worse could kill lots of people. Things like flat-earth are just silly, but probably not that dangerous at one level.
At another level the massive distrust off all institutions is bad for society, but young people haven't been trusting anybody over 40 for decades.
 
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The anti-vax movement is dangerous because it has killed people and if it gets worse could kill lots of people. Things like flat-earth are just silly, but probably not that dangerous at one level.

I would argue the lack of science is killing people. And when people don't apply the scientific method to the earth being round, they may also fail to apply the scientific method to vaccines or many other life altering decisions. And in the case of say vaccines, their decisions can negatively impact the whole.
 

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Since they no longer have Guy to treat like this, they must find someone else to go bat-shit crazy on.
I don’t think it’s really that simple. Sorry you feel that way.
 
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What happened to Guy?
He got way too comfortable here and pushed the boundaries of distasteful and awkward questioning past the breaking point.
 

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I have been hearing that all my life, usually spoken in jest. Derision. Yet I have never met anyone who truly believes that.

A pool has been reported recently on the newspapers. Honestly, what amazed me the most is not that 7% believe that chocolate milk comes from brown cows (have no idea if they were just joking or not) but the fact that 48% didn't know/ had no idea where chocolate milk comes from.
 
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I would argue the lack of science is killing people. And when people don't apply the scientific method to the earth being round, they may also fail to apply the scientific method to vaccines or many other life altering decisions. And in the case of say vaccines, their decisions can negatively impact the whole.

I'd say it's not so much the lack of science. But, rather it's more a willful denial of what someone doesn't want to believe (vaccines, 911 conspiracy, moon conspiracy, flat earth, denial of elected President, etc). IMO, society has pushed "feel good" far too much and there's now coddling to people. while I get we all don't agree with things. The reality is that some shit happens, and it needs to be accepted.
 
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Like the water swirling in a toilet bowl, it makes a few full revolutions before finally being flushed away. Not picking on Flat Earth specifically, saying it more in general with how things tend to cycle in and out of "fashion" if you will.

If the earth were flat, would the water swirl at all or just go straight down the drain?
 
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The “why” is what really boggles my mind the most too.
Like moon landing conspiracy makes sense there, it was the Cold War and we wanted to beat the Soviet Union. That’s a why I can wrap my brain around, but I just can’t see any logical reason for 1. Why would an international conspiracy of this magnitude be necessary and 2. Why in a solar system where all other planets are round and can be seen would ours be so dramatically different?

Do we really think we are that special?
 

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I wish an actual flat earther could join the conversation. Feels weird discussing people who have no say in the discussion.
 

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7k raised. He's looking for a million... I think it's safe to say no one really wants to invest in this.


I'm not going to go down through the list to check for duplicates, but 230+ people is not what I would call "no one". That is about as many as were on TWA Flight 800.

Also important to understand that this gofundme does not measure other ways in which this may or may not have paid off for him, i.e. name recognition.
 
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I don't think teachers are paid enough (or knowledgeable enough) to have to deal with students claiming to be flat earthers. I can imagine it isn't in their job description. I guess it would be sorta like me back in the 70's asking my priest at my catholic school why dinosaurs weren't on Noah's ark (I never did that).



I guess I'm a "globtard" (a youtube comment) but when popular basketball players have more influence on kids than science and scientists I get a little defensive because I'd rather believe science than youtube stars or basketball players.



It doesn't hurt anyone to believe in a flat earth I guess, unless you are a teacher in front of a class of already disruptive and probably agitated students and then you have to manage the flat earth thing into your lesson plan. I'm not a teacher, but, I remember being a student and this flat earth thing has to suck for them.
 

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I'd say it's not so much the lack of science. But, rather it's more a willful denial of what someone doesn't want to believe (vaccines, 911 conspiracy, moon conspiracy, flat earth, denial of elected President, etc). IMO, society has pushed "feel good" far too much and there's now coddling to people. while I get we all don't agree with things. The reality is that some shit happens, and it needs to be accepted.

I would disagree that it's entirely willful. For some people it is (I know most anti-vaxxers are confronted with actual information at some point and ignore it) but a large amount of people believe in conspiracies because the people spreading them are persuasive. For example, I trust that my girlfriend knows about computers. I will believe almost anything she says on it, and if she uses technology words I'm unfamiliar with then everything goes over my head and I can't take in what's being said so I have to just accept it as is. If someone who seems knowledgeable talks science, I have to assume what they're saying is true because I rarely understand what they're saying. If they manage to then dumb it down for me and use stuff I do understand without the logic falling apart, it becomes all the more believable and that person becomes very trustworthy.
 
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I would disagree that it's entirely willful. For some people it is (I know most anti-vaxxers are confronted with actual information at some point and ignore it) but a large amount of people believe in conspiracies because the people spreading them are persuasive. For example, I trust that my girlfriend knows about computers. I will believe almost anything she says on it, and if she uses technology words I'm unfamiliar with then everything goes over my head and I can't take in what's being said so I have to just accept it as is. If someone who seems knowledgeable talks science, I have to assume what they're saying is true because I rarely understand what they're saying. If they manage to then dumb it down for me and use stuff I do understand without the logic falling apart, it becomes all the more believable and that person becomes very trustworthy.

Even as you describe it, it's a willful acceptance. In the case of not knowing, it's perfectly acceptable to say "I'm sorry. But, I don't understand and am unable to make a decision until I know more." The same can apply for those who deny things without understanding.
 
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I will answer @JoleneBrody's questions in the opposite order that they were asked because #2 helps explain #1.

and 2. Why in a solar system where all other planets are round and can be seen would ours be so dramatically different?

Do we really think we are that special?

The name "Flat Earth" does them a disservice. It is not just a cosmetic issue, they don't just think it is a matter of the shape of the Earth. These two images then are just silly:

t6xky4u4lpty.jpg IS00345-Feature-1-1024x768.jpg

The thing we need to understand in order to understand *them* is that we need to switch models completely. It's not that Flat Earthers believe the Flat Earh is just flat but everything else remains the same, like Earth was a slice of pizza instead of a planet orbiting around the Sun and rotating on itself. No. It's that they discard *the whole model.* They don't believe in heliocentrism, they don't believe in gravity, they don't believe in all the things that the current model holds. It's an alternative model that explains some of the phenomena well

**THE TWO MODELS**

We are all familiar with our current Earth model.. the Globe Earth so I don't think I need to explain this in detail, but I do want to mention the things relevant to the discussion for comparison purposes. The Globe Earth model holds:

1) The Earth is a sphere 3,963 miles in diameter.

2) The Earth rotates on it's own axis which explains the night/day cycles

3) The Earth orbits the Sun together with 8 other spheres called planets.

4) There is a gravitational force that makes things "stick" to the surface of the Earth and not fall down.

5) We have traveled to Space.

The Flat Earth model holds:

1) The Earth is a plane of indetermined size

2) The Earth is stationary

3) The Sun, Moon, and Planets are small, close, and are circling above the Flat Earth.

4) There is no gravity, objects fall because they are heavier than air

5) There is no Space to travel to.

This is what the Universe looks like for a Flat Earther:

flat-earth-1.jpg

The North Pole is at the center of the map, Antarctica surrounds it, most flat earthers believe there is a dome over the Earth that contains the luminaries (Sun, Moon, planets, fixed stars)

The thing is this model can explain many of the phenomena that the globe model explains so it isn't as crazy or stupid as it may seem at a first glance. Most of these flat-earthers are normal people who grew up with the globe model, so believing in this is not a case of carelessness or blindly following a leader, it is an act of reflection and doubt.


The “why” is what really boggles my mind the most too.
Like moon landing conspiracy makes sense there, it was the Cold War and we wanted to beat the Soviet Union. That’s a why I can wrap my brain around, but I just can’t see any logical reason for 1. Why would an international conspiracy of this magnitude be necessary

Many flat-earthers believe it is an international conspiracy but many of them don't. For those who do believe in it they think the switch in models was done to conceal the existence of land beyond the poles. This part of it is also backed by some data too long for me to explain right now.

For those who don't believe in conspiracies, this is simply a case of an error at the base that got accepted as truth and became the foundation of many theoretical physics theories and when it comes to theoretical physics and math you can build an entire building that's concise and beautiful over a mistake. The mistake at the base was assuming the Earth was round. It was taken as a truth from Copernicus on, but what if it was a mistake? Take the Erathostenes experiment of the wells with the sunlight, it can also be explained by a flat Earth with a small Sun close to the surface

sunwell.gif
 

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I will answer @JoleneBrody's questions in the opposite order that they were asked because #2 helps explain #1.



The name "Flat Earth" does them a disservice. It is not just a cosmetic issue, they don't just think it is a matter of the shape of the Earth. These two images then are just silly:

View attachment 78781 View attachment 78782

The thing we need to understand in order to understand *them* is that we need to switch models completely. It's not that Flat Earthers believe the Flat Earh is just flat but everything else remains the same, like Earth was a slice of pizza instead of a planet orbiting around the Sun and rotating on itself. No. It's that they discard *the whole model.* They don't believe in heliocentrism, they don't believe in gravity, they don't believe in all the things that the current model holds. It's an alternative model that explains some of the phenomena well

**THE TWO MODELS**

We are all familiar with our current Earth model.. the Globe Earth so I don't think I need to explain this in detail, but I do want to mention the things relevant to the discussion for comparison purposes. The Globe Earth model holds:

1) The Earth is a sphere 3,963 miles in diameter.

2) The Earth rotates on it's own axis which explains the night/day cycles

3) The Earth orbits the Sun together with 8 other spheres called planets.

4) There is a gravitational force that makes things "stick" to the surface of the Earth and not fall down.

5) We have traveled to Space.

The Flat Earth model holds:

1) The Earth is a plane of indetermined size

2) The Earth is stationary

3) The Sun, Moon, and Planets are small, close, and are circling above the Flat Earth.

4) There is no gravity, objects fall because they are heavier than air

5) There is no Space to travel to.

This is what the Universe looks like for a Flat Earther:

View attachment 78783

The North Pole is at the center of the map, Antarctica surrounds it, most flat earthers believe there is a dome over the Earth that contains the luminaries (Sun, Moon, planets, fixed stars)

The thing is this model can explain many of the phenomena that the globe model explains so it isn't as crazy or stupid as it may seem at a first glance. Most of these flat-earthers are normal people who grew up with the globe model, so believing in this is not a case of carelessness or blindly following a leader, it is an act of reflection and doubt.




Many flat-earthers believe it is an international conspiracy but many of them don't. For those who do believe in it they think the switch in models was done to conceal the existence of land beyond the poles. This part of it is also backed by some data too long for me to explain right now.

For those who don't believe in conspiracies, this is simply a case of an error at the base that got accepted as truth and became the foundation of many theoretical physics theories and when it comes to theoretical physics and math you can build an entire building that's concise and beautiful over a mistake. The mistake at the base was assuming the Earth was round. It was taken as a truth from Copernicus on, but what if it was a mistake? Take the Erathostenes experiment of the wells with the sunlight, it can also be explained by a flat Earth with a small Sun close to the surface

View attachment 78784
But why? Unless I’m dense I really didn’t pick up an answer to my main question. Why? To what end? For what purpose?

Also, from my couple years of curiosity digging through this stuff casually, there is way more than one flat earth theory. Not picking on you at all but you keep answering people as if there is only one but there are a bunch of popular theories and different beliefs surrounding it. Some think the moon is fake. Some think space is a hologram on a dome. Some DO think Aus and NZ don’t exist. It is not an organized belief system so to treat it as so would be to misrepresent it.

Without a sphere, without an axis how does it make sense that I spent my summer in Alaska and Canada without seeing a night sky for two months? I have not looked up their explanation for this but I just remembered while I was typing, looking at the 1am sunset that never fully set one night and thinking “flat earthers know about this right?” Lol
 

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But why? Unless I’m dense I really didn’t pick up an answer to my main question. Why? To what end? For what purpose?

Also, from my couple years of curiosity digging through this stuff casually, there is way more than one flat earth theory. Not picking on you at all but you keep answering people as if there is only one but there are a bunch of popular theories and different beliefs surrounding it. Some think the moon is fake. Some think space is a hologram on a dome. Some DO think Aus and NZ don’t exist. It is not an organized belief system so to treat it as so would be to misrepresent it.

Without a sphere, without an axis how does it make sense that I spent my summer in Alaska and Canada without seeing a night sky for two months? I have not looked up their explanation for this but I just remembered while I was typing, looking at the 1am sunset that never fully set one night and thinking “flat earthers know about this right?” Lol

There are lunatics everywhere but Flat Earth theory does have a "mainstream" belief, a "secondary" belief and then a bunch of crazy ones that nobody puts much stock in within the movement.

The mainstream Flat Earth theory is the Dome model. It is so because it was the model proposed by Samuel Rowbotham in his 1790 book "Earth, not a globe". This is the main branch of Flat Earthism. It posits that there is a dome enclosing the Flat Earth around Antarctica. Almost everyone within the movement believes this flavor of it. Within this part of the movement the conspiracists think that the global cabal found this dome and is hiding it from the population. Then there is the secondary belief which is that the world does not end in Antarctica but that Antartica works as a sort of natural barrier but there are lands beyond Antarctica and they also believe there is land beyond what they let us see in the center of Flat Earth aka North Pole. They believe the cabal hides this from people because there is something going on there (riches, ancient civilization ruins, whatever). I have never seen Flat Earthers defend that Australia and New Zealand don't exist although I am sure there must be some lunatic out there spouting this and I am also convinced that if this lunatic is out there it is the person the media chose to represent the whole movement as it would make the debate so much more interesting for the regular viewer.

Alternative models to the dome and "beyond the poles" I have found interesting: those who believe the Earth to be a simulation like Minecraft and it's infinite in size, and those who believe it is a simulation but that the edges are like pac-man where when you exit one side you re-enter on the other. All of their models are speculative and most of them accept this. It is hard to find someone within the movement willing to say "THIS IS WHAT IT IS PERIOD" most of them are more interested in challenging the current Globe model and pointing out the inconsistencies than in defending the alternative model other than the fact that the Earth seems to them to be flat, this is what they have in common.

They do acknowledge the differences in daytime and nightime length in their model, it is accounted for. This is what they believe in essence, that the Sun and Moon revolve over the Earth in a spiral so when it's the summer on the northern hemisphere the sun is making small circles around the "North Pole" or the center of the map.. which explains why it's pitch black on the South Pole. Then in the winter the Sun is making large circles close to Antarctica and far away from the North Pole which would explain why nights are so long in Canada and Alaska during the winter. You know what the weird part is? That at the opposite latitude in the South hemisphere.. say Vancouver vs. Santiago the day length is not equal, and it should be if the Earth is a globe. Days are never as long in the South Hemisphere as they are in the North Hemisphere. The Globe model doesn't address this, but the Flat Earth model does. They say because the circle has a much larger diameter around Antarctica than around the center of the map, then the Sun has to travel faster to cover the same circle in 24 hours. Like I said.. it's thought provoking from where I am standing.
 
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But why? Unless I’m dense I really didn’t pick up an answer to my main question. Why? To what end? For what purpose?


Translation: they basically want to drip-feed the truth about human cloning to us as if it's "soon to come"...but it's been here
 

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I think I’m too dumb for this. Hahahaha
 

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Also, from my couple years of curiosity digging through this stuff casually, there is way more than one flat earth theory.

Thank you.
 
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