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Is coerced prision labor slavery?

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Shaun__

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I just read this article. I think it is a form of slavery, but I would be interested in hearing other opinions if anyone wants to discuss it.

Here is a list of some of the major corporations past and present that have used or continue to use American prison labor:

IBM
Boeing
Motorola
Microsoft
AT&T Wireless
Texas Instrument
Dell
Compaq
Honeywell
Hewlett-Packard
Nortel
Lucent Technologies
3Com
Intel
Northern Telecom
TWA
Nordstrom’s
Revlon
Macy’s
Pierre Cardin
Target Stores Inc
K-Mart
Ace Hardware
J.C. Penney
MicroJet
Nike
Lockhart Technologies, Inc.
United Vision Group
Chatleff Controls
Eddie Bauer
Planet Hollywood
Redwood Outdoors
Wilson Sporting Goods
Union Bay, Elliot Bay
Washington Marketing Group
Omega Pacific
Victoria’s Secret
Best Western Hotels
Honda
Kwalu, Inc.
McDonald’s
Hawaiian Tropical Products
Burger King
“Prison Blues” jeans line
New York, New York Hotel/Casino
Impereal Palace Hotel/Casino
“No Fear” Clothing Line
C.M.T. Blues
Konica
Allstate
Merrill Lynch
Shearson Lehman
Louisiana Pacific
Parke-Davis
Upjohn
British Petroleum
 

Jupiter551

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wow Victoria's Secret? I bet some of them love that lol... in the movies it was always working in the kitchen as the plum job :lol:
 

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Yes, absolutely.. because It's in the 13th amendment that slave labor is only allowed in the case of punishment for a crime.


Passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified on December 6, 1865, the 13th amendment abolished slavery in the United States and provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.".
 

Shaun__

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AshaSnow said:
Don't they make small wages for the work? That would move it out of the realm of slavery a bit. I think it's kind of a moot point, though.

The "wages" start at .17 cents, and remember these are not ax murders they are nonviolent offenders. Like the 420 friendly people you talk to on the forums, who had the misfortune of being caught.

Today, after these ‘allowable wage deductions’, inmate wages rage from .17 cents an hour on the low end, to perhaps $3-4 dollars a day on the high end.
 

Bocefish

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On the one hand, most of the inmates probably appreciate getting out. On the other hand, corporations shouldn't be profiting from their labor. I can understand having prisoners do public area clean ups along with other public works labor... even those locked up in club fed have talents that can help offset the taxpayers dime for room and board... but should not be for profiteering purposes.

The Victoria Secret thing caught my eye too, lol, has to be for the females.

This explains a lot of my previous experiences with certain reservation call centers:
In fact, one of the fastest growing segments of the prison slave labor are call centers for companies that need reservation operators for hotels, airlines and rental car companies.
 

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Shaun__ said:
AshaSnow said:
Don't they make small wages for the work? That would move it out of the realm of slavery a bit. I think it's kind of a moot point, though.

The "wages" start at .17 cents, and remember these are not ax murders they are nonviolent offenders. Like the 420 friendly people you talk to on the forums, who had the misfortune of being caught.
[/quote]

I think the argument that a lot of people who are in prison don't deserve it is a wholly separate topic. We can make that thread if you'd like, but the resounding response would be "yes, 420 folks who aren't hurting anyone shouldn't be going to jail, and neither should X, Y, and Z victimless crimes".
 

Shaun__

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AshaSnow said:
I think the argument that a lot of people who are in prison don't deserve it is a wholly separate topic. We can make that thread if you'd like, but the resounding response would be "yes, 420 folks who aren't hurting anyone shouldn't be going to jail, and neither should X, Y, and Z victimless crimes".

What I meant was that I could understand making domestic violence offender's stay in prison unpleasant, but I do not think nonviolent offenders who had victimless crimes should be used this way against their will. I am a bit biased, because I have hated for profit prisons since I read this. U.S. judges bribed to fill for-profit prisons with kids Prisons are a necessary part of society, but they should not be run like a third world factory.
 

Jupiter551

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AshaSnow said:
I think the argument that a lot of people who are in prison don't deserve it is a wholly separate topic.

Lol at first I misread that as people who are in prison don't deserve a seperate topic :lol:

On the whole I think the argument for labour in prison would be multifold:
1. The prisoner may recieve 17c an hour, hopefully the government recieves more and it goes to offset the cost of incarceration.
2. It often does people good to give them something constructive to do with their time, especially in the case of those in prison. Bored prisoners are angry, violent prisoners. Besides, they might learn a skill or even have a job come out of it on their release if they put effort in.
3. It ain't exactly breaking rocks all day, they're in prison. Why the hell shouldn't they have to work in offices or call centers like the rest of us have had to lol.
4. the 17c is pure profit, I haven't heard of the prison charging them rent and board. 17c an hour for 10 years is a lot better to have trying to start your life over than nothing but a raging heroin habit and a sore bottom.
 
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Red7227

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Shaun__ said:
What I meant was that I could understand making domestic violence offender's stay in prison unpleasant, but I do not think nonviolent offenders who had victimless crimes should be used this way against their will. I am a bit biased, because I have hated for profit prisons since I read this. U.S. judges bribed to fill for-profit prisons with kids Prisons are a necessary part of society, but they should not be run like a third world factory.

I think having them work, even for low pay, is important for maintaining or instilling the disciple to work. Once they are out they will be more capable of holding down a job than most of them were before going to jail.

And as for victimless crime, there is no such thing. Directly or indirectly someone suffers or someone pays.
 

Bocefish

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Red7227 said:
And as for victimless crime, there is no such thing. Directly or indirectly someone suffers or someone pays.

I think there are dozens and dozens of victimless crimes... up until the early 60s sodomy (oral or anal sex) WAS A FELONY. If I grow a pot plant in my house for personal use, who is suffering or paying? What about speeding 5 mph over the limit? Prostitution is also what I would consider a victimless crime. Gambling in my own home with friends while playing poker is a victimless crime. It's illegal to use fireworks in my state for 4th of July but setting off a few bottle rockets in celebration is a victimless crime... YMMV
 
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Red7227

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Bocefish said:
Red7227 said:
And as for victimless crime, there is no such thing. Directly or indirectly someone suffers or someone pays.

I think there are dozens and dozens of victimless crimes... up until the early 60s sodomy (oral or anal sex) WAS A FELONY. If I grow a pot plant in my house for personal use, who is suffering or paying? What about speeding 5 mph over the limit? Prostitution is also what I would consider a victimless crime. Gambling in my own home with friends while playing poker is a victimless crime.

Well, you don't go to jail for most of that in Australia. To get jailed you need to either being selling it or otherwise profiting from it, or a repeat offender.


Bocefish said:
It's illegal to use fireworks in my state for 4th of July but setting off a few bottle rockets in celebration is a victimless crime... YMMV

Tell that to the two parents that died from using illegal fireworks around new years in Victoria. We have huge fireworks shows for practically any excuse, but some fucknuckle still needs to set off a 12" mortar rocket in his back yard, but gets his head in the way when it fires.
 

Shaun__

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Jupiter551 said:
2. It often does people good to give them something constructive to do with their time, especially in the case of those in prison. Bored prisoners are angry, violent prisoners. Besides, they might learn a skill or even have a job come out of it on their release if they put effort in.

The job they are learning is one already filled with prison labor though.

Red7227 said:
I think having them work, even for low pay, is important for maintaining or instilling the disciple to work. Once they are out they will be more capable of holding down a job than most of them were before going to jail.

You know a lot of the people in prison are out of work, because they are in prison. It is the confinement keeping them unemployed, not a poor work ethic.
 

Red7227

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Shaun__ said:
You know a lot of the people in prison are out of work, because they are in prison.

Really, and are there a lot of them? People who are just in prison because the bad bad government put them there? Sounds like you think your government is fucked. Try voting next time, and stop whining about things you can change. Or just more to less fucked country.
 

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LacieLaPlante said:
Yes, absolutely.. because It's in the 13th amendment that slave labor is only allowed in the case of punishment for a crime.


Passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified on December 6, 1865, the 13th amendment abolished slavery in the United States and provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.".
Lacie for the win!
The prison system IS seriously messed up. There is very little intention of rehabing inmates because inmates returning = money. It's a business. Ask Bob Barker. That said, prisoners should work. No one over the age of 18 should expect free room and board even if they are in jail.
 
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Yes, absolutely.. because It's in the 13th amendment that slave labor is only allowed in the case of punishment for a crime.
Love it, it's a french lady who knows more about the U.S. than us mericans! LOL, :thumbleft:
In fact, one of the fastest growing segments of the prison slave labor are call centers for companies that need reservation operators for hotels, airlines and rental car companies.
This has concerned many, that these ppl are in a position to gain financhial/CC info and use it...
I am a bit biased, because I have hated for profit prisons since I read this. U.S. judges bribed to fill for-profit prisons with kids Prisons are a necessary part of society, but they should not be run like a third world factory.
Yea absolutely, our prisons have far to little oversight as is, though it is often made to appear that corp. prisons are closely watched it is most often the exact ppl who lobbied for the prison that are tasked with watching them. I'm thinking after we get the fox to watch the hen-house, we should get some coyotes dressed as big chickens to watch them. :woops:
Lol at first I misread that as people who are in prison don't deserve a seperate topic
:lol:
Asked an Ex-con, (12 adult years, CDC) buddy, (been 11+ since he dropped his #) who happened to stop by this afternoon what his thoughts were? Said "Well its not, it's part of your punishment." Then, "And $1.50 a day beats .50 a day. Not right, but they pretty much take any rights to anything. That's not what's the bad part though, the really bad thing about it is it takes jobs away from ppl who need them." I suggested, they were the most desirable jobs? And, that some paid as much as $4. a day. He said, " That would be fire camp on both counts. Fire camp is hard assed work, but you'r camping, and it pays good." "Oh, and as far as non violet, most company don't want violet ppl working, and most violent criminals are high security, so they are't going no where. Where you going? You aren't goin' nowhere!" (BDS Quote)
So there's that. :think:
 

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Many prisoners also get reduced sentences for voluntarily participating in these work programs too.
I know from my friends letters that her program is a welcome part of her day that is also reducing her time.
 

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Red7227 said:
Shaun__ said:
You know a lot of the people in prison are out of work, because they are in prison.

Really, and are there a lot of them? People who are just in prison because the bad bad government put them there? Sounds like you think your government is fucked. Try voting next time, and stop whining about things you can change. Or just more to less fucked country.

Last time I voted, the guy I voted for lost.

When I didn't vote, the guy I would've voted for won, but then the rest of the government stopped him from doing all the reasons I would've voted for him.
 
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Bocefish

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Red7227 said:
Bocefish said:
It's illegal to use fireworks in my state for 4th of July but setting off a few bottle rockets in celebration is a victimless crime... YMMV

Tell that to the two parents that died from using illegal fireworks around new years in Victoria. We have huge fireworks shows for practically any excuse, but some fucknuckle still needs to set off a 12" mortar rocket in his back yard, but gets his head in the way when it fires.

So he'd be less of a dead fucknuckle if it was legal?

You can't outlaw or fix stupid. That's one area where government goes way too far thinking they can legislate common sense.
 
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Shaun__

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Red7227 said:
Shaun__ said:
You know a lot of the people in prison are out of work, because they are in prison.

Really, and are there a lot of them? People who are just in prison because the bad bad government put them there? Sounds like you think your government is fucked. Try voting next time, and stop whining about things you can change. Or just more to less fucked country.

I do vote, and I think the idea of running away because I dislike policy instead of trying to change it is wrong.

The United States of America has an incarceration rate of 743 per 100,000 of national population (as of 2009), the highest in the world.[2] In comparison, Russia has the second highest 577 per 100,000, Canada is 123rd in the world with 117 per 100,000, and China has 120 per 100,000.[2] While Americans only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, one-quarter of the entire world's inmates are incarcerated in the United States.[3]
 
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The best way to make more people criminals is to make more laws saying "you can't do that"

The best way to reduce the prison population is to get rid of victimless crimes.

I think "coerced prison labor" is not slavery, because everyone should have to pay for their actions, and part of that means to work. I do not agree with for profit prisons, but I do agree with prisons making at least as much back as they have to spend. If they make a little extra, oh well. If they make a lot extra, raise the wages of the prisoners. If they have enough money when they get out of prison, they may not end up back in there when they can't find a job since no one wants to hire them when there's thousands of unemployed who've never been to prison.
 

Shaun__

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LadyLuna said:
The best way to make more people criminals is to make more laws saying "you can't do that"

The best way to reduce the prison population is to get rid of victimless crimes.

I think "coerced prison labor" is not slavery, because everyone should have to pay for their actions, and part of that means to work. I do not agree with for profit prisons, but I do agree with prisons making at least as much back as they have to spend. If they make a little extra, oh well. If they make a lot extra, raise the wages of the prisoners. If they have enough money when they get out of prison, they may not end up back in there when they can't find a job since no one wants to hire them when there's thousands of unemployed who've never been to prison.

I would be more accepting of a not for profit prison, instead of what we have now.
 

Bocefish

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Red7227 said:
Sounds like you think your government is fucked. Try voting next time, and stop whining about things you can change. Or just more to less fucked country.

I do vote and our government IS undoubtedly fucked up, but as much as I like Australia I would never consider moving there after what their government did to law abiding gun owners/collectors... now that's totally F'd up!

 
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Red7227

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Bocefish said:
So he'd be less of a dead fucknuckle if it was legal?

You can't outlaw or fix stupid. That's one area where government goes way too far thinking they can legislate common sense.

But they try, hence the bans on both gun ownership and fireworks. 90% of people support the government when they come up with legislation like this, and since we have 100% voting by law, stuff like this gets passed without a squeak. I don't really mind, owning a bunch of guns was cool when I could, but now I don't and I've moved on to other hobbies.
 
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I think a big thing is are they learning a trade skill. If it helps them learn a trade skill and make a little money for when they get out then I am all for it. One big problem is people going in and out of prison over and over. Many of these people have no work skills and if they gain them they can become positive members of society.
 
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LacieLaPlante said:
camstory said:
Love it, it's a french lady who knows more about the U.S. than us mericans! LOL, :thumbleft:

I'm not French, my memory is just good.
Silly rabbit, I thought I knew that.

Your name, its French, no? That is your real name, right? :whistle:
 

Jupiter551

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camstory said:
LacieLaPlante said:
camstory said:
Love it, it's a french lady who knows more about the U.S. than us mericans! LOL, :thumbleft:

I'm not French, my memory is just good.
Silly rabbit, I thought I knew that.

Your name, its French, no? That is your real name, right? :whistle:

I believe it's French for "Lacie The Plant". It always reminded me of the crime writer Lynda LaPlante :mrgreen: (btw she's not French either)

Think of prison labour this way; in 15-20 years at the current rate of economic growth, China and subsequently India will no longer be able to provide low-cost wages cheap enough to sustain the current level of foreign manufacturing investment (price of living will be too high to sustain cheap labour), and at that point where better than prisoners to fill this gap!

In other words, in 2025, your Nikes will be made in San Quentin.
 
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