Obamacare

[Bocefish]

:lol: Judge Jeanine tells it like it is...

 

[Nordling]

Do you also get your opinions from Judge Judy?

Hey, might be a good idea, at least Judy's show was popular.

 

[Bocefish]

Do you also get your opinions from Judge Judy?

Hey, might be a good idea, at least Judy's show was popular.

Right on cue with lame lefty debate tactic #1 :lol:

1) Attack The Messenger: Instead of addressing the argument that has been made, people using this method attack the person making it instead. This is particularly easy for many delusional people on the left who believe that almost everyone on the right is a racist, sexist, homophobic, Fascist who longs for the return of the Confederacy and is planning to start throwing leftists in prison camps if they let their guard down for five minutes. The charge made doesn’t even have to be accurate, in fact it’s better in some ways if it’s off target. That’s because the more whacked out the charge is, the more compelled your opponent will feel to spend his time defending himself while you continue to make your points.

 

[Nordling]

:lol: Might be cause for concern if only people on the right didn't fit so cuddly in that mold.

Odds are, most Americans have never heard of Dominionism or Reconstructionism. This extreme form of Christianity is much more common than most realize, but as a general rule, most (not all) don’t publicly proclaim their radical religious views. Reconstructionists believe that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical, not secular law. Two of Dominionism’s best known devotees are Senators Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.

This philosophy is not new to the American political scene. America was extremely affected by the fundamentalist Christians via George W. Bush, who favored faith-based programs and sought to deny schools funding if they taught anything but abstinence-only sex education. This theology gives an insight into the view of today’s GOP: a polarized Christian society where the poor are afforded no protection from the wealthy who can do as they please simply because of their financial stature. Bigotry, misogyny, and slavery are just a few of the Old Testament concepts embraced by these prominent Republicans.

The Dominionists seek to control the Seven Mountains of society which are: (1) Business; (2) Government; (3) Media; (4) Arts and Entertainment; (5) Education; (6) Family; and (7) Religion. If you can have control over these seven areas, you can shape and control whatever takes place in nations, and even the world. Just like the Old Testament dictates, women and foreigners are second class citizens and homosexuality is “sinful.” Most Dominionists are still sympathetic to the Civil War defeat of the Confederacy and see nothing wrong with human rights abuses in the Antebellum south.

Both Cruz and Paul along with RNC Chair Reince Priebus, were publicly blessed and anointed, with the laying-on of hands, by Dominionist Pastors, at the July 19th-20th 2013 Iowa Renewal Project pastors’ gathering held at the Des Moines Marriott Hotel. Cruz was labeled the de facto leader of the GOP and the October 1st shutdown showed the nation he is that influential. Their obsession with the acquisition of wealth is quite antithetical to that of their “Savior,” Jesus Christ.

The constitutionally mandated wall separating church and state is completely obliterated by Seven Mountain Dominionists. Designed to “bring the spoils of war to the priests,” thus helping to bring about a prophesied “great transfer of wealth,” from the “wicked” to righteous gentile believers, this morally bankrupt way of thinking and acting is justified by the supposition that it’s divinely mandated. These extremist theocrats actually believe they are chosen by god to impose their selfish agenda. Much like billionaire Sheldon Adelson and LDS Bishop, Willard Romney , these guys truly believe they are the Anointed Ones. You can be certain the obsession with the impending Rapture will ensure a type of governance where the consequences of inconsiderate behavior do not factor into policy decisions. Dominionist Michelle Bachmann has claimed we are in the End Times. A religious test was omitted intentionally by the Founding Fathers because they foresaw the dangers of mixing religion and politics. Today’s GOP somehow missed this warning and mixes the two in a potentially lethal cocktail of our Democracy’s demise.

 

[Bocefish]

:lol: Might be cause for concern if only people on the right didn't fit so cuddly in that mold.

Odds are, most Americans have never heard of Dominionism or Reconstructionism. This extreme form of Christianity is much more common than most realize, but as a general rule, most (not all) don’t publicly proclaim their radical religious views. Reconstructionists believe that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical, not secular law. Two of Dominionism’s best known devotees are Senators Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.

This philosophy is not new to the American political scene. America was extremely affected by the fundamentalist Christians via George W. Bush, who favored faith-based programs and sought to deny schools funding if they taught anything but abstinence-only sex education. This theology gives an insight into the view of today’s GOP: a polarized Christian society where the poor are afforded no protection from the wealthy who can do as they please simply because of their financial stature. Bigotry, misogyny, and slavery are just a few of the Old Testament concepts embraced by these prominent Republicans.

The Dominionists seek to control the Seven Mountains of society which are: (1) Business; (2) Government; (3) Media; (4) Arts and Entertainment; (5) Education; (6) Family; and (7) Religion. If you can have control over these seven areas, you can shape and control whatever takes place in nations, and even the world. Just like the Old Testament dictates, women and foreigners are second class citizens and homosexuality is “sinful.” Most Dominionists are still sympathetic to the Civil War defeat of the Confederacy and see nothing wrong with human rights abuses in the Antebellum south.

Both Cruz and Paul along with RNC Chair Reince Priebus, were publicly blessed and anointed, with the laying-on of hands, by Dominionist Pastors, at the July 19th-20th 2013 Iowa Renewal Project pastors’ gathering held at the Des Moines Marriott Hotel. Cruz was labeled the de facto leader of the GOP and the October 1st shutdown showed the nation he is that influential. Their obsession with the acquisition of wealth is quite antithetical to that of their “Savior,” Jesus Christ.

The constitutionally mandated wall separating church and state is completely obliterated by Seven Mountain Dominionists. Designed to “bring the spoils of war to the priests,” thus helping to bring about a prophesied “great transfer of wealth,” from the “wicked” to righteous gentile believers, this morally bankrupt way of thinking and acting is justified by the supposition that it’s divinely mandated. These extremist theocrats actually believe they are chosen by god to impose their selfish agenda. Much like billionaire Sheldon Adelson and LDS Bishop, Willard Romney , these guys truly believe they are the Anointed Ones. You can be certain the obsession with the impending Rapture will ensure a type of governance where the consequences of inconsiderate behavior do not factor into policy decisions. Dominionist Michelle Bachmann has claimed we are in the End Times. A religious test was omitted intentionally by the Founding Fathers because they foresaw the dangers of mixing religion and politics. Today’s GOP somehow missed this warning and mixes the two in a potentially lethal cocktail of our Democracy’s demise.

Soooo predictable... on to lame tactic #2

2) The Bait & Switch :naughty:



Are you going to try and refute anything she said in the OP or just continue with more off topic bovine excrement?

 

[PepperoniPiz]

As a Canadian, the very thought that a person can go into massive debt simply for breaking their ankle in a freak accident is just...

What?


Anyway. I tried watching this, and even got a few minutes into it but, her freaky eye and constant yelling scared me away. Halloween and all that jazz.

 

[LilyEvans]

Do we even want this law that no one can read, has read, or even wants to read?

Wait...so she's basically admitting that she hasn't ACTUALLY read the law that she is so vehemently against? Why should I take any of her arguments seriously then?

We're tired of the blame game.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That Canadian company with the French name that I can't pronounce...

I'm seriously confused as to how people still take Fox News seriously. This is what passes for journalism? It's lazy sensationalism at best, designed to scare people like my grandparents who are stuck in the McCarthy era.

 

[Red7227]

As a Canadian, the very thought that a person can go into massive debt simply for breaking their ankle in a freak accident is just...

What?


Anyway. I tried watching this, and even got a few minutes into it but, her freaky eye and constant yelling scared me away. Halloween and all that jazz.

My favourite story is the one of the guy who was using a nail gun. He had a sore mouth the next day and decided to eat ice cream to help with the pain. After a week he went to a dentist who advised him that he had shot himself in the mouth with a roofing nail which was the source of the pain. The neurologist advised that the nail was perfectly placed between the two halves of his brain. It cost him about $85,000.00 to have it removed.

My mum was in hospital for about 6 years, and had various ailments that require the flying out of 2 US neurosurgeons to remove a brain tumour. Being a civilised country she didn't pay a cent towards the cost of any of that.

 

[LilyEvans]

As a Canadian, the very thought that a person can go into massive debt simply for breaking their ankle in a freak accident is just...

What?


Anyway. I tried watching this, and even got a few minutes into it but, her freaky eye and constant yelling scared me away. Halloween and all that jazz.

My favourite story is the one of the guy who was using a nail gun. He had a sore mouth the next day and decided to eat ice cream to help with the pain. After a week he went to a dentist who advised him that he had shot himself in the mouth with a roofing nail which was the source of the pain. The neurologist advised that the nail was perfectly placed between the two halves of his brain. It cost him about $85,000.00 to have it removed.

My mum was in hospital for about 6 years, and had various ailments that require the flying out of 2 US neurosurgeons to remove a brain tumour. Being a civilised country she didn't pay a cent towards the cost of any of that.

My dad shattered his pelvis and femur in a freak accident a few years ago. He's still paying the $90,000 (!!!) bill almost 10 years later.

 

[NaNatasha]

:lol: Judge Jeanine tells it like it is...

I love how Fox News always lives up to its motto of "Fair and Balanced!"

 

[Bocefish]

As a Canadian, the very thought that a person can go into massive debt simply for breaking their ankle in a freak accident is just...

What?


Anyway. I tried watching this, and even got a few minutes into it but, her freaky eye and constant yelling scared me away. Halloween and all that jazz.

Yelling? Really?

Maybe you're just scared by an assertive woman?

If people don't have health insurance, healthcare can be expensive. Obamacare is totally flawed and in the majority of cases, it's more expensive than what was in place prior to it.

 

[Bocefish]

My mum was in hospital for about 6 years, and had various ailments that require the flying out of 2 US neurosurgeons to remove a brain tumour. Being a civilised country she didn't pay a cent towards the cost of any of that.

She never paid a cent for her health care? Ya right. :roll:

In Australia the current system, known as Medicare, was instituted in 1984. It coexists with a private health system. Medicare is funded partly by a 1.5% income tax Medicare levy (with exceptions for low-income earners), but mostly out of general revenue. An additional levy of 1% is imposed on high-income earners without private health insurance. As well as Medicare, there is a separate Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme that considerably subsidises a range of prescription medications.

Political polarization and parliamentary government have been the key factors shaping national health care policy in Australia.[1] Administrative duplication and a lack of coordination at the national level have led to Australia's health policy being described as slow, reactive and inefficient.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

 

[LilyEvans]

As a Canadian, the very thought that a person can go into massive debt simply for breaking their ankle in a freak accident is just...

What?


Anyway. I tried watching this, and even got a few minutes into it but, her freaky eye and constant yelling scared me away. Halloween and all that jazz.

Yelling? Really?

Maybe you're just scared by an assertive woman?

If people don't have health insurance, healthcare can be expensive. Obamacare is totally flawed and in the majority of cases, it's more expensive than what was in place prior to it.

Exactly, which is why the current healthcare market is broken. Everything in medicine is geared toward health insurance companies-- that is, EXPENSIVE. Because they know the health insurance companies will pay whatever they ask for, they can charge what they like. But for people WITHOUT health insurance, that is disastrous. They get charged the same sky-high prices insurance companies are expected to pay...only they can't afford it. Because thousands of dollars for five pill caplets is outrageous.

 

[Bocefish]

Do we even want this law that no one can read, has read, or even wants to read?

Wait...so she's basically admitting that she hasn't ACTUALLY read the law that she is so vehemently against? Why should I take any of her arguments seriously then?

Have you read it?

What is your premium now?

Have you gotten a quote under obamacare yet?

 

[Nordling]

Pretty funny how she complains about the project being outsourced, but it was HER side that started that. And she accuses everyone on the left of the "blame game" is hilarious, since that's what this whole piece is doing.

 

[LilyEvans]

Do we even want this law that no one can read, has read, or even wants to read?

Wait...so she's basically admitting that she hasn't ACTUALLY read the law that she is so vehemently against? Why should I take any of her arguments seriously then?

Have you read it?

What is your premium now?

Have you gotten a quote under obamacare yet?

I have not, but I'm not on national television calling people "bozos" and scaring old folks.

I don't know my current premium, but I went to the website (which isn't down anymore, apparently) and found that to insure myself under a plan that would cover 80% of my medical costs, I would pay about $250 per month. That is, of course, without other things are factored in, such as lowered costs for individuals and families falling under a certain income bracket.

 

[Red7227]

She never paid a cent for her health care? Ya right. :roll:

She was a pensioner you fucking moron, prior to that she was a housewife, so no she never paid a cent.

 

[Bocefish]

Pretty funny how she complains about the project being outsourced, but it was HER side that started that. And she accuses everyone on the left of the "blame game" is hilarious, since that's what this whole piece is doing.

Obama lied on countless occasions about people being able to keep their present plan.

Only his blunders that originally started at 94 million for the initial website will be close to a BILLION by the time it's working properly. Good job Mr. President.

Obama lied to get elected and he lied to get Obamacare passed. The majority of Americans don't even want any part of Obamacare.

 

[Gen]

If people don't have health insurance, healthcare can be expensive. Obamacare is totally flawed and in the majority of cases, it's more expensive than what was in place prior to it.

Can you, or someone, explain this in more detail? As I understand it (which I might not), everyone will be required to pay for insurance, and if you don't, you'll be fined? I have heard that for low-income people, the cost of the insurance (or the fine) may be prohibitive, but when you say "in the majority of cases", do you mean what they're paying after Obamacare is more expensive than an equivalent insurance before, or not having any insurance before?

Up here it varies from province to province but I know it's usually about $60 or so per month for provincial healthcare; some places like Alberta it is free (well, paid through taxes & all that). I pay about $120 per semester for extra coverage through school, too but that covers things like prescriptions, vision, dental & specialists (nutritionist, chiro, psych, etc.). I don't know the details but I know when I had no income, I didn't have to pay and still had full coverage. Is that similar to what they're doing down there?

Once all of this is put into place, could the next President just abolish it if he wanted?

 

[Bocefish]

She never paid a cent for her health care? Ya right. :roll:

She was a pensioner you fucking moron, prior to that she was a housewife, so no she never paid a cent.

It was paid for by others then. One way or another, the people pay for it, whether it be through taxes or privately.

 

[Bocefish]

If people don't have health insurance, healthcare can be expensive. Obamacare is totally flawed and in the majority of cases, it's more expensive than what was in place prior to it.

Can you, or someone, explain this in more detail? As I understand it (which I might not), everyone will be required to pay for insurance, and if you don't, you'll be fined? I have heard that for low-income people, the cost of the insurance (or the fine) may be prohibitive, but when you say "in the majority of cases", do you mean what they're paying after Obamacare is more expensive than an equivalent insurance before, or not having any insurance before?

Up here it varies from province to province but I know it's usually about $60 or so per month for provincial healthcare; some places like Alberta it is free (well, paid through taxes & all that). I pay about $120 per semester for extra coverage through school, too but that covers things like prescriptions, vision, dental & specialists (nutritionist, chiro, psych, etc.). I don't know the details but I know when I had no income, I didn't have to pay and still had full coverage. Is that similar to what they're doing down there?

Once all of this is put into place, could the next President just abolish it if he wanted?

Yes it could possibly get abolished, but it's more complicated than a new President wanting it so.

The fine is a minimum of $95 or 1% of your income, but they can't even enforce that unless they take it through a tax return.

In reference to your other questions, this site sums it up rather simply. http://useconomy.about.com/od/healthcar ... lained.htm

 

[Gen]

Thanks for the link, I feel more informed now! Simple enough for a Canadian to understand :mrgreen: So far I had heard a lot of arguments for and against it, but hadn't read the details of how it works.

 

[Nordling]

Pretty funny how she complains about the project being outsourced, but it was HER side that started that. And she accuses everyone on the left of the "blame game" is hilarious, since that's what this whole piece is doing.

Obama lied on countless occasions about people being able to keep their present plan.

Only his blunders that originally started at 94 million for the initial website will be close to a BILLION by the time it's working properly. Good job Mr. President.

Obama lied to get elected and he lied to get Obamacare passed. The majority of Americans don't even want any part of Obamacare.

Nice assertions. Oh, and I understand you wear green hats and hate spaghetti.

See how that works?

Really, why are you even politicking here? This isn't a political forum. Amber's forum has liberals, conservatives, libertarians and folks who are apolitical, and neither you nor anyone else is going to change anyone's personal philosophy, so why create all the disturbance? Your non-political threads are really fun, why not have more fun instead of spewing your hate for the guy we elected to the white house?

 

[Bocefish]

Really, why are you even politicking here? This isn't a political forum. Amber's forum has liberals, conservatives, libertarians and folks who are apolitical, and neither you nor anyone else is going to change anyone's personal philosophy, so why create all the disturbance? Your non-political threads are really fun, why not have more fun instead of spewing your hate for the guy we elected to the white house?

I posted it because it's true, funny and relevant to all Americans. It's not exactly news, it's an opinion piece that I agree with highlighting how messed up the Obamacare situation is.

 

[PepperoniPiz]

Chances are you've seen this already. But what the heck. Some people may not have.




Edit:

Only his blunders that originally started at 94 million for the initial website will be close to a BILLION by the time it's working properly. Good job Mr. President.

That seems rather insignificant to the $40 billion Republicans cost shutting down the Government for no reason.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

She never paid a cent for her health care? Ya right. :roll:

She was a pensioner you fucking moron, prior to that she was a housewife, so no she never paid a cent.

So she didn't contribute anything economically yet got free government handouts through a supposed entitlement program. Your system is starting to sound more and more like ours.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I'm seriously confused as to how people still take Fox News seriously. This is what passes for journalism? It's lazy sensationalism at best, designed to scare people like my grandparents who are stuck in the McCarthy era.

Wait. There are people who take Fox News seriously?? Surely not

I find Fox News to be perversely entertaining in small doses. If you pretend it's all self-aware satire, it works on a comedic level if nothing else. And if you accept that it's a serious news station attempting to present unbiased news in earnest... then it still works on a comedic level :thumbleft:

 

[LuckySmiles]

Pretty funny how she complains about the project being outsourced, but it was HER side that started that. And she accuses everyone on the left of the "blame game" is hilarious, since that's what this whole piece is doing.

Obama lied on countless occasions about people being able to keep their present plan.

Only his blunders that originally started at 94 million for the initial website will be close to a BILLION by the time it's working properly. Good job Mr. President.

Obama lied to get elected and he lied to get Obamacare passed. The majority of Americans don't even want any part of Obamacare.

Nice assertions. Oh, and I understand you wear green hats and hate spaghetti.

See how that works?

Really, why are you even politicking here? This isn't a political forum. Amber's forum has liberals, conservatives, libertarians and folks who are apolitical, and neither you nor anyone else is going to change anyone's personal philosophy, so why create all the disturbance? Your non-political threads are really fun, why not have more fun instead of spewing your hate for the guy we elected to the white house?

I kind of agree with Bocefish. :whistle: And while this may not be a political forum I'm kind of surprised it hasn't come up considering, last I checked, MFC doesn't have a health insurance plan.
So American girls who only cam and support themselves with it as their only job, unless they are married to someone who has coverage for them, have to pay their own health insurance. And if they don't have health insurance? I think it's safe to assume some amount of camgirls do not... well under Obamacare now you have to. And if you don't? The goverment will hunt you down. I'm not even kidding.
Failure to comply with the fines first results in a suspended driver's license. (which boggles my fucking mind because your license is part of your state, not federal goverment.)
Then if that doesn't work, they put a lien on your house. Cool. Many people who pay their own insurance already are seeing their plans canceled because they don't fit the new law's criteria. Who does that help? The fucking insurance companies that's who.

I wanted to like Obama. But this isn't about that. The idea behind this law is supposed to be "affordable healthcare" however, now that everyone is forced to buy healthcare insurance companies which are fucked up companies to begin with, can now charge anyone whatever the fuck they want. Unless you are part of the poorest working segment of the population, then the government will help you cover the costs. Wut.

I dunno to me it discourages independent business among a million other things that leave a bad taste in my mouth. Excessive government. Woooo.

On a side note, I don't like fox news, but i don't like nbc, abc or cnn news either. It's a pet peeve of mine when people use that old joke to dismiss things. Even if they act crazy, as least their up front about their crazy lol. All the tv news is shit. But what this lady is saying isn't actually wrong. Maybe she hates obama and has an attitude so that puts people off to it but...fuck. The bigger picture.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Pretty funny how she complains about the project being outsourced, but it was HER side that started that. And she accuses everyone on the left of the "blame game" is hilarious, since that's what this whole piece is doing.

Obama lied on countless occasions about people being able to keep their present plan.

Only his blunders that originally started at 94 million for the initial website will be close to a BILLION by the time it's working properly. Good job Mr. President.

Obama lied to get elected and he lied to get Obamacare passed. The majority of Americans don't even want any part of Obamacare.

Nice assertions. Oh, and I understand you wear green hats and hate spaghetti.

See how that works?

Really, why are you even politicking here? This isn't a political forum. Amber's forum has liberals, conservatives, libertarians and folks who are apolitical, and neither you nor anyone else is going to change anyone's personal philosophy, so why create all the disturbance? Your non-political threads are really fun, why not have more fun instead of spewing your hate for the guy we elected to the white house?

I kind of agree with Bocefish. :whistle: And while this may not be a political forum I'm kind of surprised it hasn't come up considering, last I checked, MFC doesn't have a health insurance plan.
So American girls who only cam and support themselves with it as their only job, unless they are married to someone who has coverage for them, have to pay their own health insurance. And if they don't have health insurance? I think it's safe to assume some amount of camgirls do not... well under Obamacare now you have to. And if you don't? The goverment will hunt you down. I'm not even kidding.
Failure to comply with the fines first results in a suspended driver's license. (which boggles my fucking mind because your license is part of your state, not federal goverment.)
Then if that doesn't work, they put a lien on your house. Cool. Many people who pay their own insurance already are seeing their plans canceled because they don't fit the new law's criteria. Who does that help? The fucking insurance companies that's who.

I wanted to like Obama. But this isn't about that. The idea behind this law is supposed to be "affordable healthcare" however, now that everyone is forced to buy healthcare insurance companies which are fucked up companies to begin with, can now charge anyone whatever the fuck they want. Unless you are part of the poorest working segment of the population, then the government will help you cover the costs. Wut.

I dunno to me it discourages independent business among a million other things that leave a bad taste in my mouth. Excessive government. Woooo.

On a side note, I don't like fox news, but i don't like nbc, abc or cnn news either. It's a pet peeve of mine when people use that old joke to dismiss things. Even if they act crazy, as least their up front about their crazy lol. All the tv news is shit. But what this lady is saying isn't actually wrong. Maybe she hates obama and has an attitude so that puts people off to it but...fuck. The bigger picture.

Marry me! Please.

 

[Gen]

I saw that each state will have a "baseline" plan; will there be a mandated minimum plan (like each insurance provider must have a basic plan that costs no more than $xx per month)? I imagine there's measures in place so insurance companies can't just charge a bazillion dollars a month?

It's hard for me to wrap my head around as it seems a bit confusing. It makes me happy if healthcare is more accessible but I have a few friends who've said this is going to be harder on them financially (to the point of really fucking with their finances). It's interesting to see everyone's perspectives on it; it was hard for me to see how anyone could not want it but I can see some reasons now.