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Overspending members and camgirl ethics.

Discussion in 'General Cam Chat' started by HiGirlsRHot, Jun 22, 2017.

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Do Camgirls have an moral duty to discourage members from ruinous overspending on them?

Poll closed Jul 22, 2017.
  1. No. The members are adults.

    80 vote(s)
    63.5%
  2. No. But they should tell them it is ok cut back on tipping you.

    36 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. Yes. They should tell them please stop giving me large tips, I'll feel bad.

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  4. Yes. They should ban or threaten to ban them if they don't stop and encourage them to get help.

    9 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. HiGirlsRHot

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,000
    This is a situation that I believe most successful camgirls have experienced a few times in their career.
    One of your top 3 tippers for the last 6 months or more, tells you that he is running out of money.
    This is because he has lost his job, or because he is tipping beyond his means and going through his inheritance, kids college funds, or accident payout etc.

    To your surprise, over the next month or two, you really don't notice a big decrease in tipping. He does tell you about the financial stress this is causing, huge credit card bills, falling behind on mortgage payments, tuition payments, or wife threatened divorce.

    So what are the ethics in this situation?
     
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  2. NataliaGrey

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    841
    Thankfully I haven't been through this, so it's hard to say what I'd do for sure, but I think I'd personally suggest he cut back significantly or stop if that didn't work. But once you say that... I dunno, what else can you do? You could ban them, but it feels MORE immoral to tell someone what to do with their money in my opinion. What right do you have? I think the only reason to ban in that situation is if you're too uncomfortable hearing about it, not for his own sake. I don't think a model has any obligation. Models shouldn't manipulate members [in general, but especially] for money, but that doesn't mean she should be his financial adviser either.

    On the flip side, damn, what a cruel person to tell a model this and continue to tip her huge amounts. :/ Do one or the other, not both.
     
    • Agree Agree x 17
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  3. Luxy Reid

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    4,567
    I have no moral obligation to police any adult on their spending habits. They worked for the money, they spend it how they choose. I may feel uncomfortable with it if it is seemingly excessive, but at the end of the day, I don't know their finances like they do. It is up to them to budget themselves.

    Camgirls are just trying to do a job and entertain, we don't need another chore added on being somebody's mother or accountant.
     
    • Agree Agree x 23
  4. IsabellaSnow

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,649
    This is difficult because there are so many different situations. I have a few regulars now who are in completely different financial situations to where they were when they first visited me. I just don't ask them to tip me and I don't expect tokens coming from them. But if they do tip me then I can only assume that they have the finances for it. At the end of the day, they might be exaggerating their financial hardship for attention, so if they're still tipping I would maybe question it, but I would probably assume they're not as hard done by as they make out.

    I have never had the situation you've mentioned though. I have never had a member who is so addicted to me that they cannot stop tipping even if it's causing them financial difficulty (as far as I'm aware). I basically always have a view with members that I want to improve their lives, so I wouldn't feel right about being the cause for them being unhappy.

    But then at the same time, I cannot force them to stop tipping. If they are that out of control then if they stop spending on me because I tell them to, they will likely spend on another girl. It is how MFC works. Over the years I have been there, members I have tried to help have always just moved onto the next girl. I can only say my opinion and they can choose whether or not to stay or go, but I cannot push or force anyone into anything. It just doesn't work like that. People don't work like that. I have helped people move away from MFC in the past, but it has been from indirect posts I've written here which have inspired them and they have been the one to take that step.

    I think way too many members over estimate a models power over member's spending on them or other models.

    It's like if a take away restaurant realised their customer had got really over weight and said to them "I am sorry, we are no longer going to serve you food". This would only result in the person being insulted and moving to another restaurant. It would be unlikely it would lead to weight loss. Besides the fact that the restaurant is only seeing the tip of the ice berg. They don't know if that person has developed a health condition which makes them gain weight, they don't know if the person is already terminally ill and therefore doesn't give a fuck. They just don't know what is going on in that person's life. And it is not their responsibility. They can limit their advertisement, they can make meals on their menu that are healthier, but they cannot force the person to eat healthier and lose weight. If someone is a grown adult then they have the ability and right to make those choices.

    In the situation of camgirls and members, we can try our best to help, but there is little we can do when a person will not help themselves. It may sound heartless, but this is why a lot of models have the attitude of leaving members to make their own choices. At the end of the day we are running a camming business, not volunteering for a counselling and addiction helpline. It is not that most camgirls do not care about their regulars dearly as friends, and I know I would try to speak to them as friends or make them aware that it's ok to take a break without our friendship changing. But that's about as much as I can do.

    What I wouldn't do, which I know a few camgirls do and have done, (though I'm pretty sure it's not common in the greater picture) is be aware that they are draining a member dry and knowingly encourage it in a manipulative manner. I think there is a big difference between accepting tips willingly volunteered, and using tactical manipulation to extract what you can from someone you know is vulnerable.
     
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  5. caireen

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,455
    .
    I do believe as human beings we have an ethical responsibility if we become aware of a situation. If it's something minor like a member saying "I really can't afford this" but continuing to tip, i don't think there is anything I would do. But in some cases- like a member that clearly is out of control and visibly ruining their lives because they can't resist you, i do believe that we AS HUMANS have a responsibility to either strongly discourage them from spending or ban them.

    In Canada, if you are a bartender or server and you serve a person so much alcohol and don't call them a taxi or make sure they aren't driving and then they get in a car and drive and hurt someone, you can be held partially liable.

    Ethically, I would hope that- for example, if we were bartenders and had a regular that was dying of liver failure from alcoholism that continued to crawl into the bar with their yellow skin as it was obvious they were dying- would you be comfortable serving them? What if they came to the bar because they were in love with you as a bartender? Sure, they could find alcohol somewhere else, but I would never want to be a contributing factor in that persons addiction. Additionally, i don't agree with the "we'll they could just tip someone else" argument. I feel like that can get used to justify just about anything. And if we used it like "we'll what does it matter if I pollute? If I don't someone else will anyway!" Or, "oh what does it matter if I steal this unlocked jewelry sitting out? Someone else will if i don't!" Etc etc etc

    I feel the same about camming. I'd rather not know about someone's financial situation but if they tell me/i find out and it is clear that they had an addiction that is RUINING them, i don't want their money. Imagine having a member spending insane amounts on you and then finding out they were losin their home as a result.. it wouldn't be my fault, but I would still feel terrible.
     
    #5 caireen, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  6. NataliaGrey

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    841
    I think we have the same law in the US, or at least similar ones. However, I think that's hugely different from camming for two reasons. For one, when you're drunk you can't make judgement calls. They aren't in the right state of mind. Two, they're not just hurting themselves. If they drive while drunk, they're putting others into direct and immediate danger. I don't believe we have laws here that limit gambling for people who over indulge, for example, which is certainly addicting.

    As for the second thing, I dont have the right to decide what another person should do with their life. It doesn't effect me, and my opinions and beliefs of what is "right" shouldn't trump their autonomy.

    I don't think it's wrong to be concerned with a member's best interest. I do think it's wrong to force their hand, but suggesting and guiding them is a nice thing to do. Volunteering at animal shelters is also a nice thing to do. People who don't do it aren't bad, though.
     
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  7. IsabellaSnow

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,649
    I agree with your post as a whole, but these aren't the best analogies. In a situation where you are polluting or stealing jewellery you are actively doing something to steal or harm the environment. If you're camming and someone is choosing to tip you and you don't say anything about it even if they have mentioned being broke, you are being passive rather than active. Actively harming them would be the attitude of "they are vulnerable so I am going to use this to my advantage and take whatever I can off them because some other girl will do the same and I want to profit".
    That is very different to knowing that someone is choosing to spend their money on you and not forcing them to stop, but not encouraging them either. Behind a bar firstly you are in a position whether you can choose not to serve someone from the get go, on MFC you cannot prevent someone from tipping you, even if you ban them. It is also much easier to tell if someone is very drunk and needs to take it easy, this is not only a legal requirement, you could endanger someone's life. The person is also inebriated and therefore cannot make informed decisions. You cannot assume on myfreecams that this is the case with a member, there is next to no way to tell. And in most cases the member is not like a drunk person who cannot make informed decisions.

    I agree that I think people have a moral obligation to not be arseholes and take advantage of vulnerable people, and to at least attempt to help them if you can. But in the cam world, so long as you have been entirely honest about your relationship with a member, I don't see really what more is your responsibility to do. Taking on that kind of burden is a lot, and it's something that people need to be specifically trained to handle. I feel that members expect too much from cam models in terms of responsibility over their members. And when you start talking like that you get in dangerous situations where the member does pass over the responsibility.
    Members are not children and models are not primary school teachers. To say that you will ban a member because you believe watching cams isn't good for him goes against his decision to stay. And maybe it will be better for him, or maybe that could send him over the edge. We see the tip of the iceberg, it is not our right to judge someone else's choices, because we have no idea what's really going on or why they are making those decisions. If you want to help, offer support and kindness, but they need to make their own decision to stop or it won't happen.
    If a member asked me to ban him because he felt he was too addicted to me, then of course I would oblige him. And I might advise him to do so. But the decision would always be left with him.

    Then again, I've never been in this situation. Possibly because I am very honest with members about our relationship in a way that doesn't leave much room to get obsessive. I think all of my regulars are aware that I would never want them to spend on me if it prevented them from eating or if it were fucking up their lives. From members I know who have got into these situations with one model, there has usually been some form of deception at hand. In other cases the person is simply addicted to throwing tokens at models and getting thrills.
    I have in the past though heard members saying all sorts of things for sympathy and attention which haven't been true, so I am a little skeptical of a situation where a member is telling you his life is going downhill because of his spending on you, yet is still spending large amounts. If it is true then there is little I could do for that person except advise them to go to therapy, because their problem goes so much deeper than what I am qualified to deal with.
     
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  8. caireen

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
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    One thing i sometimes wonder: what about findommes? They, I think, are in somewhat of a different financial relationship with members than the average camgirl. Do they have a responsibility?
     
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  9. JoleneBrody

    JoleneBrody AdultIndieProductions.com
    Cam Model V.I.P. AmberLander Industry Representative

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    Honestly, I would probably ban him for dumping his issues on me to that degree.

    Cuz this.
    To the degree you expressed, higirls, that feels WAY more like emotional manipulation than sloppy finances to me and I don't hang with that shit. Adults only.
     
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  10. SaffronBurke

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
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    I've been contemplating this, because part of the fetish of femdom, for some men, is the Domme saying "Go broke for Me, ruin your finances for Me, give Me everything". Do the Dommes mean it? Personally, I'd rather have a sub who steadily tributes a more modest amount than one who drops a huge amount and can't continue.

    I have had a sub who used to spend a lot of money on me every time he came to my room. Then, he started coming to my room but not spending, and eventually said that it was because he was addicted to findom and trying to quit. I told him that if that were the case, he should stay off the site. I didn't do this for his sake, but for the totally selfish reason that I was tired of getting my hopes up when I saw him, only to be disappointed. I've banned him on and off for the same reason.
     
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  11. IsabellaSnow

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
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    Not to do with findoms, but kind of along these lines. I remember a member complaining to me about how a model had scammed him because she said (I'm pretty sure in a show) that she wanted him to do this and that to her. But when he met her at a convention she wouldn't do any of that! He was also a member who spent all of his inheritance on camsites and constantly complained about how he'd throw large amounts of tokens at girls as a big surprise "just because" tip, then when they didn't provide him with however many skype shows, custom videos and basically whatever else he wanted (even if they didn't offer them), he would attack them for scamming him. There are members who while are fully functioning adults, just seem too stupid to be using a camsite in a mature way.

    So no I don't think a Domme means that any more than a camgirl means "I want you to fuck me hard". It's part of the show and members show be responsible enough to understand this. But I do think there are members who might take it way to seriously. I imagine they're few and far between, but I'm sure they're out there.

    Talking about responsibility, has anyone watched tallhotblond? Going to stick this in a spoiler in case anyone wants to watch it.
    Quick plot- It's a film where a married man meets an 18 year old attractive girl online and formed a romantic relationship with her, lying to say he's 18. His wife then contacts the woman informing her of his age. The relationship gets complicated. She starts speaking with his young co worker and flirting with him. The married man's wife has left him because of this, and he then goes and murders his young co worker.
    The plot thickens and the police turn up to the young woman's house, tell the mother what's happening. Turns out, all the messages were sent by the mother who was using her daughters image to gain attention from men online.
    When the older man gets told of this, he then says he believes she should be also be in prison for his crime because she lied to him and enticed him.
    I thought this was interesting when it comes to responsibility. She never directly told him to kill the young man, she may have riled things up and caused drama. But no one forced him to kill, that was a choice he alone made.
    But then if you look at studies on obedience, when people think someone else is going to take responsibility of their actions people act differently. To the point that most normal people would put someone else in danger.

    This is one reason that I refuse to say that I would take responsibility for a member's spending. I feel that as soon as camgirls start being treated like authority figures who have responsibility over their members, it encourages members to take less responsibility over their actions. Camgirls are not authority figures and we do not have that power, therefore we shouldn't be treated as such.
    Yes I think most members would find that when their finances aren't great that their model friend will not disown them or be a dick about it if they're just open about it. But that isn't a responsibility thing, that's just being a decent human being.
    And I agree with Jolene that the particular example given would be sending warning flags to me just on being manipulative and abusive. I've had members say similar stuff, though not about finances, and it's definitely not my job or responsibility to put up with that shit. I haven't ever banned for it, but I don't encourage it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  12. AudriTwo

    Cam Model

    Joined:
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    3,900
    This is why I love that my site has daily spending limits customers can set, because no one can put their financial irresponsibility on me.
     
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  13. SatanJonez

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
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    No shit, when I first started camming I had a guy (who had a great job) who would spend LOTS of money on me and I always felt bad, always tried to talk him out of it until he told me that he's an adult (obviously, he's required to be to legally be on MFC) and I should never worry about what the member is spending because I'm just doing my job. I'm creating an awesome & entertaining environment and to also have to worry about some person blowing their mortgage payment or power bill on me, on top of everything else you have to focus on when you're live, it seemed a bit silly for me to try and police/patrol his spending.

    If you aren't their mother, friend, wife, etc it isn't your problem if someone puts themselves into a financial black hole. And even if you are close/related to the person, if they are over 18 they gotta figure out how to spend responsibility by themselves anyway. I have sympathy for members with a spending problem still and I wouldn't take advantage/encourage it, but I'm also not going to stop them. Sorta like...a Chaotic Neutral point of view I guess.
     
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  14. Entertainer33

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
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    I was a little spend happy when I started on MFC. I noticed I wasn't keeping up with my budget needs after about 5 months. Then I got hit by some big bills. I changed my spending habits, and even told the ladies I was regular with that my usual spending habits were going to change, and it wasn't a reflection on them. In the end, I have a better control on my spending.

    In all that time it was never the model's fault. I DID vote that if a model is worried, they should mention it, but they are not required to. It's their cash and they're adults.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Jessperation

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42
    I haven't run into the extreme over-tipping where someone is ruining their lives tipping me, but I've certainly had members who have hit hard financial times. I know what it's like to be broke, and I am currently trying to pay off exorbitant student loans. I tell them not to spend money they don't have on me. I don't want anyone going into debt for me. If I have to work longer hours to make what I need to, so be it. My members seem to regularly tip what they can when they can & they are very generous. Usually the people who are temporarily broke get back on their feet and begin tipping again.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. caireen

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
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    Do you all think addiction to camsites/tipping can be a real thing?
     
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  17. Lucid1

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    '

    Most definitely.

    What has to be taken into account here - is the rise of the socially driven sites like CB and MFC(and others), is that tipping is very much different than the per-minute private based sites like SM, cams.com and others. The dynamics are completely different between the two. It's why you have tipping wars and competition for the models attention in a room where thousands can be present. Also, cam-models make porn "real", even if from a voyeuristic perspective, but not only do models fulfill "sexual" desires, they also fulfill social ones as well, and both can be addicting, especially when linked to the "feel good" hormones we are all subject to after a pleasurable encounter.

    I voted we are all adults, but after reflection on some of my own past encounters with models, I think I have to put some of the responsibility on the model. I think it is all determined by how a model handles a customer after receiving tips from them. If recognition is something as innocuous as placing them on a leader-board on their profile, then that doesn't send any mixed signals and is a nice way to say thank-you. But handing out phone numbers, social contact information or anything beyond the professional interaction in their room tends to muddy the waters a bit.
     
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  18. HiGirlsRHot

    Joined:
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    No analogy is perfect, but some members can be addicted to tipping camgirls generally and a fair number can absolutely obsessed with an individual model. I think gambling is a probably the best analogy for camgirl addiction. I don't have an addictive personality, but I say that other than the very best computer games, camgirls are as close as I've become to being addicted to something.

    I guess as Vegas resident you, really don't get into the casinos much, because it is pretty much impossible to miss the signs advertising the 1-800 number for the Hotline for National Problem Gambling. This is organization funded by casinos to help folks with gambling addiction. My guess it is to keep laws like bars have about not serving obvious drunks, to be applied to casinos. Casino hosts are actually trained to refer customers that are in over their head to the Gamblers Anonymous etc.

    I don't think camgirls have both ways. You can't claim to develop friendships with your regulars and then abdicate your responsibility as a friend to counsel them to discourage them from making bad choices. Friend don't let friends drive drunk was a very effective advertising campaign that's saved thousand of lives. Nowadays most young people wouldn't hesitate to take the car keys away from somebody who was too drunk or high to drive, this didn't occur when I was 21.

    Now while I'm often guilty of being too quick to offer my opinion I suspect all of you have intervened with a friend to prevent them from doing something that you were certain would be bad for them. suggesting they leave an abusive/harmful relationship, telling them to get help for their substance abuse problems, encouraging them to seek therapy, and telling your friend drowned in debt that yes that $400 dress or $1,000 bag is gorgeous but she can't afford it. I imagine we all be thankful when our friends have told us don't do something stupid, and probably wished at times we had listened to them.

    As Caireen says.
     
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  19. HiGirlsRHot

    Joined:
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    I'm not sure SM's limitations are but MFCs are really a joke.

    The official daily limit for a MFC is 46, 650 tokens a day, which I reached long before I was eligible for the Lounge 10K club.
    That $3675 a day or over $1.3 million a year considering many/most whales on MFC have two or more accounts you can double that.
     
  20. IsabellaSnow

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
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    Yes of course. Though it comes in many different forms as everyone uses MFC for different reasons. I think the most common one is the rush big tippers get when they spend and get an amazing reaction. I don't think it's an entirely unhealthy addiction (if you can handle it), as it releases a lot of natural happy chemicals in the brain which people generally get when they give. Giving can be addictive. But I think there is also a side which is more to do with the competition. Of course you can also get porn addictions from camsites.

    You assume in this situation that because we are friends with some of our regulars that we are friends with all of our regulars. I'm not going to lie, over the years since leaving MFC a bunch of my regulars have remained close friends even when tokens weren't an option, we remained in touch. There has been a lot of love and support during this time. But there were a fair amount of members/regulars who had claimed to be my friend while I was camming, but when it came down to it were not all that fussed once I stopped getting naked over the internet. With the amount of members who visit on cams, it isn't reasonable to expect that a model should take on each of their burdens with zero training on the matter. It is possible to meet good friends at work without getting involved in every single person's business who you come across and taking responsibility for their actions. While yes I feel close to a lot of regulars, in reality I know fuck all about their lives. All I know is what they tell me, and I have no idea if that's even true. It's just not my judgement to make what they get up to.

    In the charity I've been with for a while we deal generally with people close to suicide or basically who are at their last point of call. A large part of my training is never to offer advice, it is not your place and it is not why they're calling, nor do you know anything more than what they've told you, which may not be the full story. Sometimes just allowing them to have a safe space to vent is the best thing you can do for someone. We don't even discourage people from suicide as it's very much seen as being their decision to make. So I don't feel bad for not getting involved in members lives more than a supportive friend. I have done it before and it didn't seem to help anything or be appreciated. If it were a best friend in real life I might edge around where I feel they should go, but at the end of the day, they know best in their own situation.

    And actually, you'd maybe be surprised how many people keep their opinions to themselves when they see a friend taking a few too many drugs etc.
    I have had friends who have drug problems, and people might make a comment on it or try to help them, but when you don't made any headway, you realise all you can do is support them and love them regardless. Everyone has their own problem's they're dealing with, there is only so much others can take the burden of someone else's problems.
    And yes, it is really sad and difficult to deal with as a friend of the person. It's hard to accept you cannot change or help another person. But sometimes it's not up to you to make that judgement. It's generally a rule that unless you are a close relative or an extremely close friend, it is rude and not your business to give out unsolicited advise or tell them how to live their life.
     
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  21. OldHippy

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
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    Most definitely it can be addictive, just like gambling can be addictive. A person performs an action, tipping, and recieves a reward, the models attention and favours. This releases endorphins in the brain that stimulate desire for continuous tipping. I suspect that just like in gambling most people will be able to control themselves and enjoy responsibly while others just won't see any point in gambling at all while a small minority will be in danger of falling into an addiction they can not control.

    Where I am from if someone admits to a casino that they have an issue with gambling it is up to the casino to make sure they are excluded from the venue.

    Perhaps the sites themselves should have an option to exclude members with unhealthy tipping habits, but that will never happen...

    I totally agree with caireen and commend and respect her for her ethical views.
     
    #21 OldHippy, Jun 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  22. Guy

    Guy

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    Spending limits on MFC increase every time you buy tokens. That makes their spending limit system useless.
     
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  23. Guy

    Guy

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    I think that @Miss_Lollipop said in another thread that a member spent his childrens college fund on her and 2 other models.
     
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  24. SaffronBurke

    Cam Model

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    I recall reading that the default, initial limit on SM is pretty low, $100 or $150 or something like that, so that if someone signs up with a stolen credit card, they can't spend very much on it.

    I was going to log in to my member account and see what my limit is, since I have never changed it, but, alas, it has been closed because I went too long without using it.
     
  25. Guy

    Guy

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    I heard that they changed it to $250.
     
  26. Entertainer33

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    It's $150 FYI. I just started using it and gladly use the limits there.
     
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  27. SaffronBurke

    Cam Model

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    That's a pretty reasonable limit, in my opinion. Much more so than than MFC's, for sure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Guy

    Guy

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,001
    Its more than 650 tokens now. I purchased 900 tokens on my first night.
     
  29. Miss_Lollipop

    Miss_Lollipop CammodelExpress.com
    Cam Model Industry Representative

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    6,390
    Yes I did.

    I've had contact with him recently (this was several years ago) and he's doing much better :) We are still friends .. obviously completely outside of camming because that's not healthy for him.


    As a result of that I developed a personal code of ethics about how i handle members spending.


    My answer to this poll is:
    Do Camgirls have an moral duty to discourage members from ruinous overspending on them?
    No.


    I think this falls under personal ethics, rather than a moral duty. My personal ethics would tell me that i would absolutely need to discourage members from ruinous overspending. However, someone else may not. THe only thing that we have a moral duty not to do is to actively commit fraud. ie. "I will marry you if you spend another 1000tks" .... i think the minute you start saying we have a moral duty.. nah they are the ones making the decisions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  30. HiGirlsRHot

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,000
    I just checked my SM it was still $150 but did have the option to increase it up to $225/day. This after reaching Tier 3 out 10 tier for their reward system over the last 4 years or so.
    Let's be clear what the purpose of these limits are, initially they are to protect the camsite from credit card fraud. At some point, they are to protect the member from out of control spending. SM does that MFC doesn't.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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