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Pricing Spy Rate on Privates

Discussion in 'Ask-a-Model!' started by Smores, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    744
    What is your spy rate for a private chat on CB, and what was your logic in setting that price?

    Just as a devil's advocate argument to hopefully start a discussion, why do models not make their private prices high but their spy rates very low? For example, the private rate might be 30 to 60 tokens per minute, but why not make the spy rate 6 tokens per minute? Assuming you are even willing to tolerate spying (and some models set the spy rate high to discourage spying), does a high-low split maximize your private revenue or not?

    The argument in favor of high-low split would be that you cover the cost of your time with a high private rate, but anything over that is cream, and at a very low spy price like 6 tokens per minute, you are quite likely going to have a set of regulars who spy on you but who cannot afford do an exclusive private.

    The argument against a high-low split would be that you might prevent some people from doing privates with you when they can afford to do so, because they instead choose to just wait and watch you as a spy for a much lower price.

    I think how you decide this depends how the composition of your viewing audience. If your privates are largely with men who just watch and do not interact, then clearly high-low split will hurt you. Watching can be done cheaper by spying on you, so you work against yourself. But if your privates are largely based on conversation and interactions during the private, then clearly being a spy does not replace the experience of the private. So in that case a high-low split is better for you because you segment your viewing audience according to active participants and people who only watch, and you can maximize revenue from each segment at the same time.
     
  2. SaffronBurke

    Cam Model

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    What's yours?
     
  3. Smores

    Joined:
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    If my viewers never interacted with me and formed relationships, I would price it 30 tokens for both the private and the spy rate.

    If my viewers heavily interacted with me and seemed to form relationships where the conversation in the private was an essential aspect to it, I would be tempted to price it at 30 tokens for the private, and 6 tokens for the spy. I would then test different rates for the spy and see if that changes demand.
     
  4. SMuser69

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Messages:
    793
    Bonga does this cheaper to spy than to start the pvt and that's one main reason people would buy other formats (skype shows) instead of using their own system. As a member why should I pay to give another member a discount? Member pay extra for more exclusivity not to grant discounts for other members.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Smores

    Joined:
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    That's fair, but the person who wants exclusive access negotiates that up front.

    Viewer: "I want to have your time exclusively for a private show, and I do not want anyone spying"
    Model: "Fine, but my rate of 30 tokens was set based on allowing spying users. For an exclusive I want 60 tokens"

    Then the viewer can decide if he wants the exclusive at a higher price or not. If the viewer moves forward at 60 tokens, the model configures CB to disallow spying.

    Nothing in the above conversation really argues for or against the issues I raised. CB allows spies. Most models enable that. So you need to figure out a price for spying, in that default configuration.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
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    I have private set at 60 tokens and spying 30. im not really a fan of spying, if u cant aford my private price, be honest and maybe we can set a deal for a lower rate, im very flexible. As for exclusivity i find it normal to set a higher price. like mfc has set as default.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  7. Natalie_Lavender

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
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    I have my private set at 60/min and they have to have a minimum of 1,000 tkns to initiate it, with 18/min for spying. I have yet to have a member ask for me to turn the spying off.
    In my experience I have noticed that those spying are strictly combing the “Private Shows” search pages. As they weren’t in my room prior to the private starting, or if they were in public chat then they typically sit and watch for free not tipping. So for me, this allows me to actually get tkns from them at least.
    I set it lower, not equal to, because they have no chat ability in the private and no say or “control” over what the content will be.
    At a lower spy rate I can get minimum 5+ members spying. It adds up & it’s working for me. In time I might raise it, but for now “if it isn’t broke...” ;)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

    Joined:
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    Do you also have set the minimum amount of time? I mean minimum of tokens doesnt guarantee they spend them all. Assuming the minimum tokens are to stay a decent amount of time. For example i do have set a minimum of 10 minutes and if they ask for less minutes its all good, just that i make them aware of the fact less minutes i cant offer a quality full show.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Natalie_Lavender

    Cam Model

    Joined:
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    Oh yes. Forgot to mention that. My minimum time is also 10 minutes.
     
  10. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

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    I love that feature of chaturbate, mfc should get that too. its very annoying when u agree with members on whats gonna happen and they just suddenly leave after 2-3 minutes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. CurvyJ

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
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    My pvt tkn price is very low... only 12tkns/min and spy is 6tkns/min and a minimum of 5 mins.

    I will be changing this in December or January.

    I often get says and that really helps bump up our earnings. So I will continue to allow it
     
  12. Brett M

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
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    571
    I think it should be a built in feature for if your pvt is 6 a minute, then it should be 10 mins minimum. I mean, I understand there are a lot of guys with no money and it is a treat or luxury to take a model private, but even at that price it's ridiculous - especially for the typical kind of woman that has it set at that; usually it's models who will do a lot of things and not charge extra for them...

    I can see the logic for both high or low spy prices. I mean, the model I have shows with has hers set to the maximum on CB which I am happy about purely because it's such a personal experience and you could be doing/saying anything. So if someone truly does want to spy, they can but at a cost.. On the other hand, the model does want to earn as much money as possible..

    So I see both sides of the coin, but for me personally I do like the model with a higher spy price - if it's someone I have visited and had many shows with; like the lady I do.
     
  13. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

    Joined:
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    I agree with that.
     
  14. Smores

    Joined:
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    So in your case your actually trying to discourage privates. You allow them if someone will pay a high rate, but "spiritually" you really wish they just were not there. I get you here.

    I am really curious did you test a private rate of 30 before you did 60? How much did demand drop going from 30 to 60? One of the models I really like has about 20% of her time spent in privates. She averages about two a day. I am thinking she would benefit from that price hike without really sabotaging demand that much. But that's a scary change to make without data.
     
  15. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    That has been my observation of several models as well. That is why I did not think the point on exclusivity above really affected my question much. I felt it was both rare and could be negotiated when it appears.

    That actually shocks me. None of your regular room members even peek in for a short period? How does CB notify you that someone is spying on a private? Is it a notification like any room entrance, but the text of the message just says they entered the private chat as a spy? Then when that person leaves you see a message about them leaving?

    Maybe the members feel awkward in spying because they do not have your explicit permission and do not want to violate some kind of implied trust? I definitely have this issue with some models, where I have some doubt that they will appreciate my doing that. On the other side of that coin, I have one model who actively sends me private messages and asks me to come watch her when she does privates. I actually love that (and I am crazy about her).

    Again, you are blowing my mind a little. So you are saying that you are averaging five spies per private at all times (obviously it fluctuates up and down a lot...I am talking about "averages"), and your own observation is that all five spies are people who probably found you on the CB search?

    Those people are usually coming in for a few minutes and leaving, and then they get quickly replaced by others? Or are the individuals staying for a while?

    So if your point is correct, and these spies are all finding you from the CB search page, then wouldn't you expect an even lower price rate to raise the number of viewers? I am somehow imagining 1000 guys combing through all the privates, and they are naturally looking for the cheap ones since they do not know these models. You never tested lower than 18?

    All of this is really really useful thank you.
     
  16. Smores

    Joined:
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    How many spies are you averaging at 6 tokens, and do you have any guesses about how long each one is sticking around?

    Do you think most of those spies are from the CB search page and not regulars in your room?
     
  17. Natalie_Lavender

    Cam Model

    Joined:
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    I should have clarified better. Some regulars that are already in my room peek in, probably only 25% or less though. And no, there’s no notification whatsoever when you’re in a private with someone who’s coming and going as a “spy”. Once you go private the “user” tab just shows that you & the one that requested the private are there.
    While I’m in my privates, my mod posts gifs announcing what the spy cost is, so I do still get regulars in there. I say “hello” to every single user that enters my room in public chat. So I know who was in the room already. After my stream has ended, the only way to see who spied & how long they stayed is through the tab that shows the exact breakdown of the tokens earned. That’s how I know they weren’t in my room already, because I didn’t greet them prior. There are a few that are “habitual” spies. Lol. Every time I go private, they pop in to spy.
    I have had my spy amount set lower before, but my private cost was lower too. I raised it to not necessarily discourage privates, but I was getting so many requests it was taking me away from my room too often, killing my chances of getting new regulars. So it has to be worth it now. I have a couple users that are known to take me private for an hour, sometimes just to talk. I feel like 18/min to spy is fair considering I might not even be doing anything exciting & I don’t want to have to constantly change it based off of what the private show content.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  18. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    Is there any report the model can run on CB to quickly determine statistics around spy revenue? Like can she see the average number of spies in a private, the total minutes spent spying, etc? Or would summarizing the data at a high level require someone to write some reporting software?

    For models, do you get your 30 day history from the "Token Stats" tab and then the "Download Transaction History" link? Does anyone make software to process that data and report on it?
     
  19. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    I am surprised there are no notifications, but then again that does explain why they call it "spying".

    For anyone not familiar with privates, if you have the model send you a PM when you initiate the private, and you conduct the conversation in the PM tab, that conversation will be saved when you exit the private. Otherwise your conversation is vaporized.

    That's a great use of notifiers for marketing. You gave me a few ideas thanks.

    So your estimate of about five viewers spying is based just on your casual review of those records? Or are you running some kind of report against that to tabulate and summarize data?


    That's really strange. :) It's out of scope for my question, but I cannot resist: If those users pop up 100% of the time, I think that is some kind of automation and someone is recording the show. If those people just tend to be on 60% of the time, I am thinking it might be one of your regulars but using a separate username for spying (which is pretty paranoid but okay if they are *obsessed* with you then maybe they do not want you to know this...just speculating).

    Okay, and what is your memory about the number of viewers you had at the lower spy rate?

    This is a dynamic that I have only started to understand in the last month. I see in many rooms how a model going private totally destroys the energy and momentum building in the room. And it is particularly destructive when the private happens in the middle of a token frenzy where you have two or three people throwing large tips around at the same time. Going to private feels like a bit of a slap against the high bidders who are left behind, who really wanted to keep interacting with you. So I am very much warming up to this idea of privates being 60 tokens, both to extend the amount of time in public chat but also to make sure that if you are forced away from public chat that this will really be great money and therefore a no-brainer to do.
     
  20. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
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    not sure if i made myself understood, i dont discourage privates. i encourage them. was saying that even my default rate is 60, i can agree privates at a lower rate but ofc not same things as in a 60 /min. for example if a member really likes me and want a private but can only afford 30/min and agrees we play but i dont use toys ( just an example) i low my rate and do the private. It happened with guys i did lower rate to come back after a while and do private at standard rate apreciating the fact i did discount 1st time. ( hope i explained better now).
    I did try 30 tokens before setting at 60, but i didnt get more privates than with 60 to be worthy. i admit is easier to make money from tips, less work than in a private.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  21. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

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    no notification. u can see only if u pay attention on how tokens are increasing.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  22. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    My bad! I was trying to suggest that you might be trying to discourage *spying* not privates. I just used the word privates by mistake and that changes the whole meaning.

    You clearly prefer privates and encourage those and negotiate around those as the preferred outcome. You tend to discourage spying.
     
  23. Sophiestique

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
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    yes, im not really happy when some cheap guys spy a really good private for which a guy pays 60/min, i mean thats 3$ for the model can be up to 6$ for the member, i really do apreciate members as people that work for their money hard as we do. so thats one f reasons id set spy at 30 at least. i remember when i was camming on free/private chat based sites i used toset spy rate higher than private. i mean if u really curious to see what im doing, and not take me private, pay for it.

    I might be wrong. but i see a member that is interested in what im doing in a private will take me to one himself... its always better to interact than just watch smth that someonelse asks for. but just my pov.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    I completely understand how you are thinking about this. The interesting point that @Natalie_Lavender is raising is that maybe up to 80% of those "spies" are in fact not your regular viewers at all. They may be opportunists who just browse through all models in private chats, from the CB search page.

    If that premise is true, then you can think about this as a "market segmentation" problem, to use a fancy business school idea. The point is that there are two classes of customers:

    Class 1: regulars who really like you and want to develop some kind of interaction and relationship with you.
    Class 2: viewers who never come to your room, who only discover you via CB search, and who simply poke their head into the room out of curiosity

    If that segmentation is correct - and it sounds like Natalie has plenty of experience to form an opinion about that - then the price that maximizes revenue for each class of user might be totally different. It becomes a business problem to solve for the best price.

    I totally understand that I am thinking about this with my brain and not my heart. I am a geek and I like to think about business issues. I totally respect that some people need to understand and enjoy things with their heart first. And if something does not feel right to you then you might act on that feeling rather than going through "market segmentation".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. CurvyJ

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2018
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    It's very random but I get between 2-6 spys with a mix of people in my room/repeat spies and new random ones who never come in my room.

    I usually go over token stats after every shift so I can see my spies right after the privates happen. I used to list spies along with tips and pvts but it became pointless so I stopled
     
  26. Smores

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
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    Does anyone know of a sample model data file available that shows the layout of the data? It's critical to this that it include data showing multiple spies during a private. I want to have a go at writing a custom report against that data file, and of course I would share the report template with anyone here who is interested in it. It might take a few months because I have to make sure to select the right reporting application for the job.

    If anyone has requirements for what they would like that report to summarize or tabulate, please let me know. Based on conversation here, I think you would want to know for each private:

    * Number of average spies
    * Total tokens received for the private, broken down by the main viewer and a single number for all spies, both gross numbers and percentages of the total
    * Total number of spies over course of the private

    The same stats would be calculated for the entire data file (presumably 30 days of data).
     
  27. Lunasha

    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
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    I haven't done a lot of privates yet, but each time I had some people spying for various amount of times.
    My rate is 60 tkns per minute for the private and 12 tkns/min for spying.

    The way I see it is that a private is a bit like buying a custom video. I will do what the paying member wants to see and he can interact with me if he wants. I'll also accept c2c if he wishes.
    I haven't started selling videos yet, but from what I read, most people will sell custom videos at a high rate, then sell them for anyone else at their regular selling rate. To me it's similar to the concept of private and spying. The people spying don't have a say in what is happening at all. They might be lucky and find themselves in a private they enjoy, or they could end up in a weird private with kinks they don't care about. I know they can leave anytime, but still haha.

    For example I had a private where I was wearing a maid outfit and the guy wanted me to touch myself with cleaning rubber gloves while I was sniffing the inside of my shoes. For him it was a HUGE turn on, but it's possible that people who started spying were a bit weirded out.
    I had another private that lasted like 30 minutes and had a lot of spying, but I basically didn't do anything until the end LOL, because the guy simply wanted to chat with me!

    I also understand why some people might want to put spying at a rate closer to their private rate. If most of your privates end up being typical cumshows and the like, cheap asses might wait until someone buys a private to get to enjoy it themselves. But also, those cheap asses wouldn't buy the private at full price anyway, so I don't see it as 'lost money'. It's like the freeloaders who wait for people to tip you for flashes no?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  28. ForceTen

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
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    IIRC, one of the models here mentioned that you can set it where they have to have a minimum amount of tokens to request a private. I don't know if it holds them to it, or if they can bail before that amount is spent. But, i seem to recall someone saying that it's helped cut down on the number of people who skip out early as well as false requests.

    From a MFC member's perspective, I don't like people spying on my privates and only do TruePrivates (10 minutes is my minimum unless have to leave in an emergency for work, etc). Sometimes because we chat about things, and I don't like random people listening in. Rarely will I spy on a private since I like to think it's meant as a private time between model and member. I don't mind the 80Tpvt/60Pvt/30Spy rates. But, I would think it'd be better if some of the pricing control was given to the models so they can adjust as they feel appropriate. Also, regarding duration, I have no issues with a model stating a ten minute minimum. Or, even a small up-front charge before doing so. Though, I think the 500 token up front is crazy to charge if a model may also have a 10 minute minimum (how busy a room might be is also a consideration here). But, the up front charge I've seen models no longer charge once you've done a couple of privates because they know you won't skip out early.
     
  29. AmberCutie

    AmberCutie ACF Owner & Admin. (I don't work for CB.)
    Staff Member Cam Model

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    I think a big benefit of having a standard set price for all models on the site is that we don't have to deal with hagglers. The price is the price, take it or leave it, lol.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  30. ForceTen

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
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    Most definitely on this. I was was just thinking along the lines of if a model isn't getting many privates, she could adjust the rate to a pricepoint where she feels she might get more. Then, as she gets more popular, or just decides to up it for any reason, she can. Kind of like a store can adjust prices as the see fit.
     

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