The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethics!

[Rebecca Buck]

Hello everyone! Here's a discussion for you all!

I think there's a lot of good discussion to be seriously had on this day. If everyone's going to be celebrating a drug that is illegal in pretty much every state but three here in the US, I think it's important to take a moment to understand *why* it is illegal. So, here are my queries for you!

What are your thoughts on 4/20, weed, and the laws surrounding it?
• Do you think it should be legalized? Just decriminalized? Is there even really a difference?
• Do you think the culture or perception of the culture is changing, based on the current representation of the drug in media? (for example, movies like Pineapple Express.)
• Martin Luther King said: "A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.“ - Do you think this applies to the 'War on Drugs" and how it negatively affects others?

My ponderings:
From my understanding, it all started several decades ago when hemp was starting to serve as a threat to the cotton industry. Since then Marijuana was politicized and villified (as seen in the movie Reefer Madness) and, guilty by association, the hemp industry was also essentially shut down in it's prime.

Now, the 'war on drugs' seems to be an excuse to keep people of color off the streets, feed the private prison industry, and in general just waste taxpayer money. If weed was not so heinously illegal (Even just decriminalized) then lawn enforcement could focus on bigger issues, instead of trying to pop every young non-white guy in the slums for having a dimebag on him.

I don't truly think any drug is bad. Drugs do not have motives or agendas or feelings. Drugs just stimulate or relax. Drugs are a tool. Drug control should not be about making drugs illegal, it should be about empowering people to make the right decision for themselves. And if abuse is an issue, then I think mental help should be readily available. The drugs most commonly abused I feel are mostly used as just a mask to try and hide or alleviate previous psychological issues. I believe in the Netherlands they treat drug abuse more as a mental health or public health problem than a criminal problem. They view it as an illness that can be treated and cured, and if a drug user is caught stealing or something, they are prosecuted for the crime but not for possession. In America it's seen as the devil and the cause for all social unrest and poverty and pretty much every other issue you can think of.

Personally, I'd like to see the states exert their rights and decide for themselves whether or not they want weed legal there. I don't believe the federal government has any right to tell me what I put into my body. I've known a fair amount of different druggies and dealers in my short time as an adult, and I've seen what the law does to people who sometimes just want to make ends meet or provide something for their family or themselves.

Thoughts?

 

[Shaun__]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I have been reading Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana - Medical, Recreational and Scientific by Lee, Martin A while I do my chemo stuff, and I found it to be fascinating. There was never a reason to outlaw cannabis in the past, and there is no reason for it to be outlawed now. All it has done is create a huge black market to fund drug cartels, and fill the for profit prisons with people who had everything they worked for taken from them by the government.

 

[Rebecca Buck]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I have been reading Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana - Medical, Recreational and Scientific by Lee, Martin A while I do my chemo stuff, and I found it to be fascinating. There was never a reason to outlaw cannabis in the past, and there is no reason for it to be outlawed now. All it has done is create a huge black market to fund drug cartels, and fill the for profit prisons with people who had everything they worked for taken from them by the government.

You say chemo... So are you getting it prescribed? How's it helping you?

I apologize if it's too personal a question! I only ask since my grandfather is about to start chemo for esophageal cancer. I've brought it up before that since he lives in WA which just recently made MJ legal, he could probably get some help because I know chemo can be rough. (Then again, Grampa is an old retired Master Chief and he's a little set in his ways.)

 

[mynameisbob84]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I absolutely think marijuana should be legal. If you can walk into a shop and legally purchase cigarettes and alcohol, there's no (valid) reason to not be able to walk out with some marijuana too. Imagine a world where you could walk into a shop, buy a pack of pre-rolled joints and take them home with you. It would be amazing. I wouldn't mind paying over the odds for the convenience either. Imagine the tax that would be generated by such a possibility. Millions upon millions, that could be put to good use. Imagine the money that could be saved by the "war on drugs" ending tomorrow. Think of what could be done with that money, ya know?

I can't think of one good reason for marijuana to remain illegal. Not one. Ditto magic mushrooms. Even pills would benefit from being legalised. It would mean they were fundamentally safer as they wouldn't be cut up with fuck knows what. It would also cut down on drug related deaths. Less kids being shot to death by rival drug dealers. There'd be less business for drug dealers (why drive to a shady neighbourhood to buy drugs from some dood you barely know when you can just buy them over the counter, legally?) and therefore less money at stake and less people being killed over that money.

The fact that we live in a society where alcohol, cigarettes, guns, knives, thousand-calorie meals and highly addictive painkillers can be bought over the counter but a plant that grows out the fucking ground that just happens to make people feel good when ingested is illegal, makes me confused and depressed.

 

[AdamAdamant]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Legalize all of the drugs. Tax them, regulate them, manufacture them with things that are less likely to kill you quickly, administer them under safer/controlled/cleaner places. Eliminate the black market and remove the stigma of drugs so people can feel better about getting clean.

 

[Jupiter551]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

lawn enforcement could focus on bigger issues

Absolutely, lawn enforcement needs to stop wasting time on grass! :-D

 

[mynameisbob84]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

lawn enforcement could focus on bigger issues

Absolutely, lawn enforcement needs to stop wasting time on grass! :-D

Ha! :-D

 

[Shaun__]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

You say chemo... So are you getting it prescribed? How's it helping you?

I apologize if it's too personal a question! I only ask since my grandfather is about to start chemo for esophageal cancer. I've brought it up before that since he lives in WA which just recently made MJ legal, he could probably get some help because I know chemo can be rough. (Then again, Grampa is an old retired Master Chief and he's a little set in his ways.)

I do not live in a state that prescribes it, and I was not willing to get family or friends involved in some things. I had trouble eating when I was younger, so I am used to eating with nausea and my weight is doing fine. Other people will need help with it though I think, since the anti-nausea pills give me headaches and barely work.

I start my fourth and I hope last week of chemo on Monday. I go sit/sleep in a chair for about five hours as an IV pump puts stuff into me. My lymph nodes have shrunk, and the tumor markers in my blood have returned to normal levels. I will have to be checked for the next several years to be sure it does not return. Also men who get chemo are 80% more likely to get cancer when compared to men who did not get it, so I have a long road ahead of me.

Tell him he wants a mediport, I did not get offered one and my veins hurt for over month after some treatments. They have just been picking a new vein every week I go. Also the worst time for me is the week after my chemo as the effects of my drugs build up.

Chemo is the worst physical thing I have ever had to undergo, and my friends and family are the only reason I have been able to do it. You and others will need to be there for him.

 

[southsamurai]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I apologize if it's too personal a question! I only ask since my grandfather is about to start chemo for esophageal cancer. I've brought it up before that since he lives in WA which just recently made MJ legal, he could probably get some help because I know chemo can be rough. (Then again, Grampa is an old retired Master Chief and he's a little set in his ways.)

honestly with esophageal he's probably better off without it in the smokeable form.(this is also true of any medical uses really) in that form it would cause more irritation than it would help with nausea. certainly doing an extraction is possible, but if he's already having trouble swallowing and keeping things down then most anti nausea pills wont work super well and neither will extracted THC and cannabinoids. you would have to extract it, then dissolve it in a liquid so that it could get into the system quick enough to be useful, and it doesnt like to dissolve in water based fluids much. (which is how bongs work btw)

there is supposedly a way though that you can extract it and keep it in a form that you can dissolve in the mouth. i can research on that (and probably will out of curiosity anyway lol).

if an inhaled form is the only viable way, invest in an vaporizer. theyre a tad expensive compared to other smoking devices, but they realease the THC and volatile cannabinoids, but doesnt actually burn so none of the tar and other nasties that come from traditional smoking. if that isnt viable then a water pipe of some kind is next best.

i can say from my experience in various oncology cases that i was caregiver for the stuff definitely works.
it decreases nausea, increases appetite and most of the side effects are pleasant for most people. (some folk dont respond well to MJ, sensitivities and all, and it can cause headaches and jitteriness). be warned though that when added to most narcotic pain medications the euphoria and relaxation can be too much and result in flat out stupor. i had one patient who tried it out and was asleep for 18 hours straight and had to avoid it for that reason.

secondarily, not all MJ is equal when it comes to the chemo benefits. an indica/sativa cross breed is probably going to be best, and it should be hydroponically grown rather than the more organic forms. too many extra trace chemicals that can be reactive.

 

[emptiedglass]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I have no problem with legalizing cannabis.
They tax the hell out of cigarettes and alcohol here, so why not do the same with marijuana? Of course, it should be subject to similar regulation. We don't need 8-year-olds buying it. :lol:
The extra infusion of tax dollars and the creation of jobs in the legal cultivation & distribution of it would probably be a good thing for the economy anyways.
I agree that there are more important things that police resources should be spent on. I still think the harder drugs like heroin or meth should be 100% illegal, though.
:twocents-02cents:

 

[TashaDutch]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I totally agree with you nova!
Even though i personally don't enjoy the workings of weed, i have enjoyed some hash joints when i was younger.
The stigma has returned to The Netherlands, and in some way that makes me sad.
People who use weed/hash are no longer seen like the free spirits who are just enjoying a little joint, without hurting anyone.

We have a big community that lobby for everything they think they should 'protect' people from, and it's getting ridiculous.

We have 'coffeeshops' that are actually not coffeeshops, but shops to buy weed and hash, pre- rolled, whatever you like.
But since they introduced the no smoking in public law a few years ago, the shops have lost pretty much everything they were.
A place to smoke, have fun, and chill with friends.
After that they started to discuss if marijuana should still be 'tolerated', cause it's not officially 'legal', just tolerated, it all went shit.
Now people no longer tolerate anything people do that our goverment tells us isn't good for us.
And beeing the sheep following people we are, only criminals and teenagers smoke marijuana, with some reason.

Two years ago (or so) a tourist jumped off a building in amsterdam, beeing on magic mushrooms.
They are no longer legal to buy, or legal to possess, cause you know... what would the rest of the world think? :shock:

But if you just walk into any random forrest, and you have good knowledge about mushrooms growing there, you can easily pick em, dry em, and still eat them.
That's why i think it's retarded they forbidden the possesion and selling of the 'rooms.
How many teenagers are gonna be stubborn and get into the forrest themself, pick wrong mushrooms, and kill themselfs with it?

On the oher hand, we have labs in big cities, that will test your illigal drugs (xtc, cocain etc.) and will give you results about ingredients.
To me that spells hypocrisy, how to we explain that?
Ok, so we don't want you to smoke weed, or just have fun in general.
But to people who don't give a shit about laws, we offer special treatment, cause we feel they should have the knowledge.

It's awsome that it excists, don't get me wrong.
But it seems in such huge contrast with the newly introduced 'weedpass', that forces people to have a special pass to get into coffeeshops.
Denying tourists and foreighners from buying marijuana, and forcing them to get them another (illegal) way.
Increasing crime rates, such as cartheft (for transport), money laundring, and more stuff you can imagine happening around these kind of criminal operations.

They haven't introduced this 'pass' in alot of cities, but i think they really want to.
What if i feel like getting a joint every 3 years or so?
I have to go get a pass and wait for god knows how long to get one fucking joint?
That's just silly...

ouch... sorry this became such a huge story, i just wanted to show that the tolerance towards these kind of things are dropping like crazy over here as well.
We have proven that with making it harder to get marijuana, crime rated go up.
What about having it go all illegal? or beeing illligal?

I damn sure know it's easier for me to get a gram of cocaine, than get a gram of weed.
That kinda proofs what i'm trying to say...



footnote on the crime handling in Netherland: it's really common when someone comits more crimes, not all the crimes are followed up by.
I have no idea why, but if you get arrested for a major crime, and they catch you on more violations, they usually persue the majoy crime first.
And either drop other violations, or try to find the most expensive way of fining you for it.
I was arrested a few years ago for setting a (real) xmas tree on fire, noise disturbance, offending police officers on the job, and public intoxication. (yeah i was a wild child )
They fined me for burning chemical substances (250 euro fine), fined me for noise disturbance (75 euro fine), and just read back what i told the arresting officers the night before.
Turned out a tree isn't a chemical substance, so just before i was suposed to get before a judge for not paying(i couldn't, i was 18), they changed the charge, and i got a 50 euro fine.

The dutch law system is really weird and bendy..

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I have no problem with legalizing cannabis.
They tax the hell out of cigarettes and alcohol here, so why not do the same with marijuana? Of course, it should be subject to similar regulation. We don't need 8-year-olds buying it. :lol:
The extra infusion of tax dollars and the creation of jobs in the legal cultivation & distribution of it would probably be a good thing for the economy anyways.
I agree that there are more important things that police resources should be spent on. I still think the harder drugs like heroin or meth should be 100% illegal, though.
:twocents-02cents:

So the main argument for legalising weed is because cigarettes and alcohol are legal. A weak argument.

All that tax money just gets spent welfare. Providing for alcoholics and patients. Definetly a huge saving if both were illegal, banned and "extinct".

Why should the harder drugs be illegal though?

Weed has ruined many peoples lives which is why it is illegal in a lot of places. The same can be said of gambling, booze and smokes! But these places are already established and governments are too scared to abolish them!

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

I feel like there are more important issues in the world personally... so I just don't invest much time or energy into it.

I don't do it myself... it doesnt offend me when people do it around me.. i get annoyed when people wont shut up about it like their world revolves around it.

 

[Rose]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Other people will need help with it though I think, since the anti-nausea pills give me headaches and barely work.

That. ^^ The anti-nausea medications they have on the market now are awful and they don't really know the lasting side effects.

My hyperemesis is coming back but I'd rather hug toilets and need iv fluids than deal with the side effects of anti-nausea medication again. It's just not worth it to me.

I don't know the effects of marijuana on pregnancy, so I can't say if I'd use it in my situation or not, but it I was dealing with extreme nausea due to chemo/radiation then I would. If you have to deal with something that hard on your body you might as well be allowed to have a bit of fun to make yourself feel better. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Rebecca Buck]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Other people will need help with it though I think, since the anti-nausea pills give me headaches and barely work.

That. ^^ The anti-nausea medications they have on the market now are awful and they don't really know the lasting side effects.

My hyperemesis is coming back but I'd rather hug toilets and need iv fluids than deal with the side effects of anti-nausea medication again. It's just not worth it to me.

I don't know the effects of marijuana on pregnancy, so I can't say if I'd use it in my situation or not, but it I was dealing with extreme nausea due to chemo/radiation then I would. If you have to deal with something that hard on your body you might as well be allowed to have a bit of fun to make yourself feel better. :twocents-02cents:

I've heard that through most the pregnancy it's actually quite helpful, especially with curbing nausea. They don't reccommend it for the birth however.

However, I'm one of those people who wants to attempt pregnancy as natural as possible, for my body. And even though weed is technically considered natural, I will admit I've had some bad experiences that I'd rather not potentially go through with another tiny human inside me >.>'

 

[southsamurai]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

nope, MJ is a big time no-no during pregnancy. other than the obvious reasons that anything taken in gets to the baby in some proportion (well most things anyway). even pure THC has bad bad effects in utero. birth defects, arrested development and suspicion of possibly droppingIQ via inhibiting neuron growth. if you add in the nasty stuff that you get from smoking it, you have a whole long list of carcinogens, toxins and other chemicals that interfere with natal development. yes, that means the whole "MJ wont cause cancer the way cigarettes do" is malarkey. when it comes to the chemicals released by the two plants smoldering there are very few differences, and those are mainly in the active alkalines.

in that respect MJ is just as bad as tobacco. the burning of any herbaceous or woodiferous substance will produce a slew of toxins, none of which do you want in your body crossing the placental barrier. some of the pics from rat studies on MJ are just horrifying.

side note: im a proponent of legalization, i used the stuff for years, and say let adults do what they want. that doesnt mean im unrealistic about the harmful aspects of it. (and notice the adult reference there... the changes in brain chemistry and growth in children and teens is very high compared to use as an adult, and those changes become permanent in those cases. an adult will probably return to normative brain function anywhere from a few months to a few years later)

 

[LadyLuna]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Personally, I'm not too fond of it. But I don't have a problem with other people using it. And I definitely don't mind being in the room while it's being used (I think when I use it myself I get too big a dose or something, cause I get nice and loopy off other people using, but really slow and what? off of using it myself.).

As to it ruining people's lives- the only reason it ruins people's lives any more than alcohol or smoking do is BECAUSE it is illegal. The reason it ruins their lives is because they can't get a job due to drug tests, and end up in jail for stealing cause they can't get hired. If it weren't illegal, that wouldn't happen, and their lives wouldn't be ruined from it.

As to outlawing alcohol, well, we tried that once. It was called prohibition, and it worked about as well as the war on drugs is working now. That is to say, it didn't work at all. The best method to get people to stop doing something is to allow them to do it but educate them on the effects of doing it. The best method to make something safer is to make it legal. Make penalties for people who drive while under the influence, and let employers fire people who are found to be under the influence while on the job.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

As to outlawing alcohol, well, we tried that once. It was called prohibition, and it worked about as well as the war on drugs is working now. That is to say, it didn't work at all. The best method to get people to stop doing something is to allow them to do it but educate them on the effects of doing it. The best method to make something safer is to make it legal. Make penalties for people who drive while under the influence, and let employers fire people who are found to be under the influence while on the job.

best way is to the change the culture. get people to frown upon on those who smoke or drink and automatically over time no one except a very few will do it. but no one wants to change.

 

[emptiedglass]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

As to it ruining people's lives- the only reason it ruins people's lives any more than alcohol or smoking do is BECAUSE it is illegal. The reason it ruins their lives is because they can't get a job due to drug tests, and end up in jail for stealing cause they can't get hired. If it weren't illegal, that wouldn't happen, and their lives wouldn't be ruined from it.

I think that the abuse of it can ruin lives, as well. Although that can be said of many things.
Most of us know people who've destroyed their mind, body, relationships, and finances with substance abuse.

 

[emptiedglass]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

best way is to the change the culture. get people to frown upon on those who smoke or drink and automatically over time no one except a very few will do it. but no one wants to change.

Sadly, they don't.
I've received more frowns for not drinking. It's like they automatically assume that I have or once had a problem. Thankfully, they don't know the name I use in these parts! :lol:
Ironically, at my feet right now is my emptied milk glass from earlier tonight...

 

[LadyLuna]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

As to it ruining people's lives- the only reason it ruins people's lives any more than alcohol or smoking do is BECAUSE it is illegal. The reason it ruins their lives is because they can't get a job due to drug tests, and end up in jail for stealing cause they can't get hired. If it weren't illegal, that wouldn't happen, and their lives wouldn't be ruined from it.

I think that the abuse of it can ruin lives, as well. Although that can be said of many things.
Most of us know people who've destroyed their mind, body, relationships, and finances with substance abuse.

I thought referencing the alcohol or smoking will let people know that I recognize that some people will abuse it, just like people can abuse those. But then again, I went to high school with someone who was abusing video games the way some people do drugs, and I myself got the shakes and started hallucinating after being deprived of roleplaying and writing for a month my senior year of college due to having too much on my plate. Is anyone here going to say that writing should be banned just cause I got addicted to it?

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

best way is to the change the culture. get people to frown upon on those who smoke or drink and automatically over time no one except a very few will do it. but no one wants to change.

Sadly, they don't.
I've received more frowns for not drinking. It's like they automatically assume that I have or once had a problem. Thankfully, they don't know the name I use in these parts! :lol:
Ironically, at my feet right now is my emptied milk glass from earlier tonight...

Depends on the environment and culture. You drink alcohol at a primary school during class, you will get frowned up later by parents lol!

Everything has its place. We dont need stoned people on the streets! lol! Which is why i am guessing its illegal! At least by keeping it illegal its all underground and hidden.

Different ways of looking at things.

Legalise it, it will become very expensive so expensive that it will cause problems like smokes and booze tend to. Either way there are problems. Best thing is to not do it all.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Weed has ruined many peoples lives which is why it is illegal in a lot of places.!

Shit like this is hilarious. "That Johnny was such a good boy before he started smoking but that evil weed made him a lazy loser". Johnny was always going to be a loser. Weed doesn't make you a lazy bum, being a lazy bum makes you a lazy bum. Gateway drug myth is even more comical.

The wide range of medicinal purposes marijuana has is insane. Why is something that helps so many people illegal? Why take 10 different pills for something one bowl could fix? Why can I legally buy shrooms(truffles) and erb in Amsterdam while I wander around looking at legal hookers but not here? That place is the land of the free, we are like a bootleg land of the free all janky and stuff.

 

[trotskyleon]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Weed has ruined many peoples lives which is why it is illegal in a lot of places.!

Shit like this is hilarious. "That Johnny was such a good boy before he started smoking but that evil weed made him a lazy loser". Johnny was always going to be a loser. Weed doesn't make you a lazy bum, being a lazy bum makes you a lazy bum. Gateway drug myth is even more comical.

The wide range of medicinal purposes marijuana has is insane. Why is something that helps so many people illegal? Why take 10 different pills for something one bowl could fix? Why can I legally buy shrooms(truffles) and erb in Amsterdam while I wander around looking at legal hookers but not here? That place is the land of the free, we are like a bootleg land of the free all janky and stuff.

lol go live in amsterdam then!

medicinal purposes? :lol: helps people :lol:

keep dreaming :thumbleft:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

the changes in brain chemistry and growth in children and teens is very high compared to use as an adult, and those changes become permanent in those cases. an adult will probably return to normative brain function anywhere from a few months to a few years later)

I don't think any of this is true. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/teens-marijuana-brain-tissue-alcohol_n_2331779.html Kinda relevant recent study.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

medicinal purposes? :lol: helps people :lol:

keep dreaming :thumbleft:

I could link to a million different studies that show all the benefits erb can have and you'd still think this way. People like you were once the majority, but you now belong to a very small minded, very uneducated, rapidly dying minority.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

get people to frown upon on those who smoke or drink and automatically over time no one except a very few will do it. but no one wants to change.

 

[Shaun__]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Weed has ruined many peoples lives which is why it is illegal in a lot of places.!

Shit like this is hilarious. "That Johnny was such a good boy before he started smoking but that evil weed made him a lazy loser". Johnny was always going to be a loser. Weed doesn't make you a lazy bum, being a lazy bum makes you a lazy bum. Gateway drug myth is even more comical.

Sure you say that now, but just look at how weed ruined the lives of these people and kept them from the greatness they could have had.

Faces of Weed!

 

[Zoomer]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

Did someone really just paste a load of images and say "Hey, look, they had a good successful life so therefore the drug cannot possibly harm your future"

*face palm*

As for the link to "Teen Marijuana use May Show No Effect On Brain Tissue" - really?

Oh look, I found one that shows it is damaging to long term intelligence of teenage users.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 34392.html

Does this mean we've a paradox? It doesn't affect the brain but it does? Or perhaps looking at a brain scan and not actually test said brain isn't rigorous enough to prove anything? Or maybe most of these studies aren't rigorous enough to prove anything either way.

As for "legalise, tax it..." - why is this seen as a means to stop drug related crime? Most petty crime is to pay for the drugs... and if you're paying tax on the produced drug, then smuggling is going to be attractive anyway - because there is profit there. And an existing established supply line.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: The 4/20 Thread: Weed, Counterculture, Politics and Ethi

As for "legalise, tax it..." - why is this seen as a means to stop drug related crime? Most petty crime is to pay for the drugs... and if you're paying tax on the produced drug, then smuggling is going to be attractive anyway - because there is profit there. And an existing established supply line.

Because there IS evidence to show this would make a difference. Every single way it can be computed shows it would wipe out all the associated crime overnight.

A five pound bag of marijuana in itself, using modern farming techniques, costs no more to produce than a same size bag of flour. (seriously, give it to a farmer who can produce 30,000 acres of weed by himself in a year and you start to realize the true value, there's NO difference to him between marijuana and corn) The ONLY reason it has greater value is due to it being illegal and thus creating a black market for the item. This artificially inflated value is what creates the need for the secondary crimes. Turf wars to acquire more area to sell the product. The car break-ins to steal electronics or other stuff laying on the seat. Basically all the crime associated with it is due to it's artificially high value.

Take that away from the equation now. Pretend instead of marijuana being valued at $254.60 an ounce (taken from http://www.priceofweed.com/ click on california), which is the equivalent of $20,368 for five pounds, instead it is now worth it's REAL cost of production, approximately $3 for that same five pounds.

Now suppose we also tax it beyond belief, totally get greedy. Here's the first few states tax rates on the good stuff.

Instead of these measly tax hikes we'll raise the tax on marijuana a freakishly high amount of 500%. Yes, that $3 bag of weed is now priced at the whopping price of $15.

For an item worth over twenty thousand dollars for a five pound bag I can understand peoples willingness to commit crimes. However, if the average HEAVY user smokes an ounce a day that means, once legalized, a 400 day supply could be bought for only an hour or two working at a regular job. I'm not aware of any person in the world willing to risk smuggling, theft or murder to pay for that. We don't have those crimes associated with alcohol and cigarettes now, there's no reason to believe they would exist if marijuana were legalized.