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the mechanism of the fraud of stolen credit cards and/or illicit tokens on CB

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Apr 8, 2021
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a greeting to the forum.
a month ago the model of which I was moderator had the account banned, announced by an email of the support of this type:
As we trust you are aware by now, you have been banned from the Chaturbate live cam community due to your fraudulent activity in violation of our terms of service and the law. Specifically, you have colluded with illicit credit card users in order to push fraudulent "tips" before the use of stolen credit card numbers was detected by our processors. These transactions have resulted in significant cost to Chaturbate in the form of chargebacks, refunds, and fees. Please note that Chaturbate reserves all of its rights to recover the full extent of its cost incurred as the result of your fraudulent activity.
the model opened, immediately after, 2 tickets to support, for now remained unanswered.
I immediately activated with @punker barbie via PM on this site, but obviously she can't go into specifics with a stranger and for now she just told me that the support has sent an email to the user, which I already knew, being it the above email; at the moment I am waiting to know if the ban is final or they are still evaluating, so as not to waste any more time.

in the meantime, I tried to understand the mechanism of the scam, but the issue is delicate and it is rarely and reluctantly talked about; my aim is to clarify as much as possible, to avoid that models in good faith and naively end up in this situation.

I found basically 2 interesting posts:
1) https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/banned-from-cb.38924/
2) https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/t...-wont-respond-thread-for-punker-barbie.39449/

in the first post it is clear what one of the mechanisms could be: a user contacts the unsuspecting model saying that he will bring her good customers who give a lot of tips, but that of course he wants a reward for the brokerage.
therefore (I think) he will give the model a list of userid or in any case he will demonstrate in some way that certain userid have given tips brought to him to the room and from here his percentage will be calculated.
in itself it doesn't even seem to me an irregular fact, but obviously if the userid are hacked or the credit cards are stolen the thing changes radically.

the second post shows what the model's reactions to the unfair ban for these reasons could be.

I would like that at the end of this thread we could write a guide on how to avoid as much as possible to fall into the various tricks in good faith and thus avoid being banned.
 
Dec 16, 2020
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Am i right to state that privates seem to be very often the cause of these bans? People using stolen credit cards to get a quick private session? Just a wild thought
 
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AmberCutie

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If someone uses a stolen credit card at Walmart, they do not arrest the cashier... This seems like a problem for Chaturbate's money vender and not the models.
If the cashier has made a deal with a group of customers to come in and use a stolen card multiple times while he looks the other way, he would indeed be punished.
 
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Jan 17, 2021
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If someone uses a stolen credit card at Walmart, they do not arrest the cashier... This seems like a problem for Chaturbate's money vender and not the models.
That's good, real world thinking!! I belive the only way the cashier would be arrested would be because somewhere in the investigation, they found
something linking card thief/user and the cashier. Like text messages between the two planning a day to do it.
But definitely they don't arrest a cashier that is doing their job.
I have "heard" personaly about the inside jobs where a person knows the store clerk at a 7-11 convenience store.
They always make beer runs on that clerk's shift. Then they planned a robbery for a couple hundred bucks.
They made it look so real. The pistol that was used to "whip" the clerk accross the face was a toy gun.
It still managed to break her cheekbone though.
Even a jewelry store getting merchandise stolen during a "try on" visit or robbery.


How can we know if a user has a stolen card?
Not fair to be banned as a model !
So true. The model is not the one validating the transaction. The model is not given the numbers to process the card
 
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Jan 19, 2021
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If the cashier has made a deal with a group of customers to come in and use a stolen card multiple times while he looks the other way, he would indeed be punished.
That doesn't make sense here though. The models do not interact with the credit card. MMBILL.com handles the credit card transaction and they need to either fix their security or Chaturbate needs to find a new vender to handle credit card transactions. Even if the model does know, they only get tokens that Chaturbate provides the end user with.
 
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AmberCutie

ACF Owner & Admin. (I don't work for CB.)
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That doesn't make sense here though. The models do not interact with the credit card. MMBILL.com handles the credit card transaction and they need to either fix their security or Chaturbate needs to find a new vender to handle credit card transactions. Even if the model does know, they only get tokens that Chaturbate provides the end user with.
It's still a decent analogy.

If the model has entered into an agreement with a member to pay out a certain amount of the tokens spent on their room, they are complicit whether they touch a credit card or not. It makes sense that CB would remove models who enter into agreements like this.

The unfortunate thing is when the model is convinced to do it with no idea what's really happening or the repercussions of it. And unfortunately in this line of business, there are a lot of very naive or desperate models who would take the deal thinking it's beneficial for them.
 
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Jan 19, 2021
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It's still a decent analogy.

If the model has entered into an agreement with a member to pay out a certain amount of the tokens spent on their room, they are complicit whether they touch a credit card or not. It makes sense that CB would remove models who enter into agreements like this.

The unfortunate thing is when the model is convinced to do it with no idea what's really happening or the repercussions of it. And unfortunately in this line of business, there are a lot of very naive or desperate models who would take the deal thinking it's beneficial for them.
Isn't this exactly what a studio does then?

I agree with what you are saying in theory. I disagree with how Chaturbate handles it. Some pays with a credit card. Chaturbate takes a cut of that purchase and gives tokens. That user then gives tokens to a model on Chaturbate. What happens after a model cash's out really shouldn't be any concern to CB as they have already taken their cut.
 
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AmberCutie

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Isn't this exactly what a studio does then?

I agree with what you are saying in theory. I disagree with how Chaturbate handles it. Some pays with a credit card. Chaturbate takes a cut of that purchase and gives tokens. That user then gives tokens to a model on Chaturbate. What happens after a model cash's out really shouldn't be any concern to CB as they have already taken their cut.
If they are repeatedly doing it, that's a problem. Not sure how you can't see that.
 
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Mar 24, 2019
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Isn't this exactly what a studio does then?

I agree with what you are saying in theory. I disagree with how Chaturbate handles it. Some pays with a credit card. Chaturbate takes a cut of that purchase and gives tokens. That user then gives tokens to a model on Chaturbate. What happens after a model cash's out really shouldn't be any concern to CB as they have already taken their cut.
Its not like you get unlimited chargeback protection even with a high risk merchant account, theres got to be some limits before the price goes up or they drop the client.

edit: or they stop providing chargeback protection beyond a certain limit
 
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Apr 29, 2019
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find clues in my twitter profile
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What happens after a model cash's out really shouldn't be any concern to CB as they have already taken their cut.
No, no no it would be way too simplistic : The persons whom this credit car belongs obtain easily a refund from their Bank who charge back CB. The only benefit of CB can certainly not handle this loss and CB can't also protect the thief pretending to ignore that their site is used for this of course.
They can't become a dirty money laundering site so naively, and close their eyes to take their benefit of it
 
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Jan 19, 2021
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No, no no it would be way too simplistic : The persons whom this credit car belongs obtain easily a refund from their Bank who charge back CB. The only benefit of CB can certainly not handle this loss and CB can't also protect the thief pretending to ignore that their site is used for this of course.
They can't become a dirty money laundering site so naively, and close their eyes to take their benefit of it
Seems like the answer is to place a hold on tokens after purchase. Verify that the CC is valid and then release the tokens.
 
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Mar 24, 2019
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Seems like the answer is to place a hold on tokens after purchase. Verify that the CC is valid and then release the tokens.
The CC is valid, its just stolen and a chargeback can be done anytime within like 120 days of the transaction, they arent going to put a 120 day hold on tokens.

Edit: even a 1 day hold would be horrible for business so thats just not going to happen.
 
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Jan 17, 2021
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People actually do this to get things for free.
Instead of contacting the merchant for a refund, a cardholder will just contact their card issuer.
 
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Apr 29, 2019
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People actually do this to get things for free.
but only once per person, so it should not be a big problem on the site.

there can be 3 sources for these kind of transactions :
- A user who cheats, buying tokens and getting a refund from his card issuer. I think this should not be so current because the person and his credit card would be spotted fairly quickly if he tries more than once.
- A stolen credit card number (the number of stolen cc is really huge, it's a real second market) hence a need to get and wash money fast.
- A stolen access to a CB account having it's credit card registered in the account. It seems that this is not so rare to see users having a low security level, and hacked accounts on CB is also not rare (just a little example: have a look there )

(also maybe you could shorten a bit your signature ;) )
 
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AmberCutie

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(also maybe you could shorten a bit your signature ;) )
yeah @h2ohboy fix your signature or I'll just remove it. annoying af with how big it is and it blends into the post. confusing.
 
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AmberCutie

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There are some that says to you they "have a big deal".
Yes it's those ones you want to completely avoid.

I do believe if there is a single instance of a model being tipped with tokens from a stolen card, the model would probably be in no trouble. CB may take the tokens back, though.

As far as I can fathom, It's the ones who agree to those "big deals" (i.e. sending some money back after being tipped many tokens from the criminal user) that end up being banned.
 
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Jan 17, 2021
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(also maybe you could shorten a bit your signature ;) )

yeah @h2ohboy fix your signature or I'll just remove it. annoying af with how big it is and it blends into the post. confusing.
OK you 2. I hope you like the new signature. I really liked the other one sooo much. LOL.
 
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- A stolen access to a CB account having it's credit card registered in the account. It seems that this is not so rare to see users having a low security level, and hacked accounts on CB is also not rare (just a little example: have a look there )

Those are likely just fresh accounts they make loaded with tokens from stolen CCs rather than hacked accounts. I would assume he would be selling some accounts with less than 750 tokens if they were hacked
 
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Apr 8, 2021
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thank you all for your efforts in the discussion ...
as I understand it, the origin of the problems starts from 4 illicit situations:

- A user who cheats, buying tokens and getting a refund from his card issuer [...]
- A stolen credit card number [...]
- A stolen access to a CB account having it's credit card registered in the account.
and [4], I add, a stolen account with the tokens on it ready to spend.
leaving out the first, which seems occasional to me, the other 3 lend themselves to a systematic use of money laundering: the guy either with an account or with a credit card finds himself in his hand with very cheap tokens and tries to turn them into money or he spends it on girls.
if he wants to turn them into money, he has to agree with the models and here, I think, there will be different ways to get the agreement: from the good-natured one of the type "I spend x from you, you return me y" to the real blackmail type "yesterday I paid you with illicit tokens, give me back y or ...". in both these cases, the model should immediately turn to CB (or the police, or both if the offense is evident) reporting the "business offer" received; in fact, in some cases, the proposals seem to be real legitimate intermediaries of studios or companies with a portfolio of wealthy customers, who want to collect their percentage from both the customer and the model.
here what should the model do, always reject every business proposal and report it? always report suspicious tips as well? (too high, occurred offline, etc.)
 
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Apr 8, 2021
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I wonder: is it possible that in the united states of america, where a thief sues the manufacturer of the padlock because, when breaking it, a steel splinter pierced his eye and he wins it, or the lady sues the manufacturer microwave oven because she put the kitten in it to dry and it died, and on the instructions it was not forbidden, and she wins it, I said, in a country like this, no one has ever sued a company like this that accuses its clients of complicity in fraud and theft without, apparently, having valid evidence for the prosecution?
 
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Jul 16, 2021
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It's still a decent analogy.

If the model has entered into an agreement with a member to pay out a certain amount of the tokens spent on their room, they are complicit whether they touch a credit card or not. It makes sense that CB would remove models who enter into agreements like this.

The unfortunate thing is when the model is convinced to do it with no idea what's really happening or the repercussions of it. And unfortunately in this line of business, there are a lot of very naive or desperate models who would take the deal thinking it's beneficial for them.
I never had that kind of agreement ( if cb can read all my messeges , they need to do it ) but they bun me and blame me about it ... and don’t even explain
 
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Apr 8, 2021
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If the model has entered into an agreement with a member to pay out a certain amount of the tokens spent on their room, they are complicit whether they touch a credit card or not. It makes sense that CB would remove models who enter into agreements like this.
[underlined by me]
I would say "it makes sense that CB would remove models OF WHICH IT HAS PROOF they enter into agreements like this", because either all the scammers on CB are idiots or something is not right.

all scammers are idiots because the scammer or his accomplice model or both exchanges private messages on CB systems (or maybe they write to each other in public chat hahaha) saying "look, I just hacked 10 accounts, now I come to your room and spend a lot of tokens, remember to send me the percentage" and the other (to be probative) says "yes sure, I'll send your dollars to you tomorrow".
none of these criminals can think of, what do I know, to write through WA or instagram.
if, on the other hand, some of these offenders did NOT make arrangements on CB systems via video, audio or in writing, how would CB know that the model is an accomplice to the scammer?
simple, it might not know.
and then it should ban the models that receive fraudulent tokens a little at random and a little not, block their payments (ALL payments, not suspicious ones) and thus have the money for compensation.

if the company were incorrect it would do so, but assuming the company is correct, then the scammers and their accomplices are idiots.
 
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