US Border Checkpoints - 100 miles from the border

[bawksy]

Has any of you guys ever been stopped by U.S. Customs while you weren't actually crossing the border into or out of the USA? I didn't think this shit was legal (fourth amendment protection against unreasonable searches and all), and I'd never seen it before, until I was on a trip to Arizona, about 10 miles outside of Tombstone. Luckily, neither I nor my Chinaman passenger looked very Mexican, so we got waved right through. It was still kind of nerve-wracking though.

I found a great compilation video of citizens making their way through these illegal checkpoints without putting up with the cops' bullshit.



You have to have a ton of balls to do what these people are doing. In many cases, it sounds like they are refusing orders from the police (PULL YOUR CAR OFF TO THE SIDE, SIR). But they're not actually refusing "orders". They're just refusing the cops' strongly-worded suggestions. There's a fine line, and you put your neck on that line when you refuse a cop's "suggestions". Why?

You MUST obey a lawful order from a police officer. If you don't, he can feel "threatened" and shoot you in the head. (see: 13 year old armed with toy gun who didn't immediately drop it when ordered to by California police officer)
However, you are NOT obligated to obey a cop's "suggestions" or unlawful orders.
Where this gets complicated is that cops are ALLOWED to lie to you about ANYTHING.
Furthermore, cops have a lot of training in ordering people around and sounding VERY intimidating.
So when a cop says you HAVE to do something, you have no sure way of knowing whether you actually have to or not.
But if you don't obey, you better be pretty fucking sure that it's not a lawful order, or you're going to take one right between the eyes.



P.S. In the above video, the best one is at 14:37. I laughed for a long time.

 

[SexySteph]

Okay, I've always been wary of the police but this bothers me to no end. They should be required to answer questions like "am I being detained?" "am I free to go?"

There needs to be a class you can take in college that teaches you about your rights in these situations. I once had my car searched before because the cop thought we might have tobacco on us (what???) and I was unaware that when they say "May I search your car?" you're allowed to say "no".

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Yeah last one is great. Dudes had a sense of humor. Go ahead and go sir

 

[krukstyle]

You have to have a ton of balls to do what these people are doing. In many cases, it sounds like they are refusing orders from the police (PULL YOUR CAR OFF TO THE SIDE, SIR). But they're not actually refusing "orders". They're just refusing the cops' strongly-worded suggestions. There's a fine line, and you put your neck on that line when you refuse a cop's "suggestions". Why?

You MUST obey a lawful order from a police officer. If you don't, he can feel "threatened" and shoot you in the head. (see: 13 year old armed with toy gun who didn't immediately drop it when ordered to by California police officer)
However, you are NOT obligated to obey a cop's "suggestions" or unlawful orders.
Where this gets complicated is that cops are ALLOWED to lie to you about ANYTHING.
Furthermore, cops have a lot of training in ordering people around and sounding VERY intimidating.
So when a cop says you HAVE to do something, you have no sure way of knowing whether you actually have to or not.
But if you don't obey, you better be pretty fucking sure that it's not a lawful order, or you're going to take one right between the eyes.

Great video. These types of intimidation techniques employed by officers are purely ridiculous. I really wonder how these situations would have turned out if the driver in each case was not openly video recording the officer the entire time. As much as I'd like to think otherwise unfortunately, I think many of these altercations would've gone much less smoothly (obviously they are pretty "un-smooth" to begin with) without the element of the camera.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Great video. These types of intimidation techniques employed by officers are purely ridiculous. I really wonder how these situations would have turned out if the driver in each case was not openly video recording the officer the entire time. As much as I'd like to think otherwise unfortunately, I think many of these altercations would've gone much less smoothly (obviously they are pretty "un-smooth" to begin with) without the element of the camera.

It is worth noting that you have a constitutional right to record police officer doing their official business with or without their consent. While several states have laws against people filming cops still on the books. In 2012, (Alvira, Anita V ACLU) a Federal district court ruled a IL statue prohibiting the filming of public officials including cops with their consent was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court refused to hear Illinois's appeal, so the ruling stands. So if a cop ask you to turn off your cellphone record, politely tell him or her, hell no.

 

[Lintilla]

It is worth noting that you have a constitutional right to record police officer doing their official business with or without their consent. While several states have laws against people filming cops still on the books. In 2012, (Alvira, Anita V ACLU) a Federal district court ruled a IL statue prohibiting the filming of public officials including cops with their consent was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court refused to hear Illinois's appeal, so the ruling stands. So if a cop ask you to turn off your cellphone record, politely tell him or her, hell no.

The mess here in Illinois was to do with "wiretapping". Filming police is just fine, but then shit went down when someone was charged in (I think?) 2010 based on an obsolete law, making the recording of audio an issue. And you're only probably okay recording audio at present. They might not try to charge you anymore if you were to do it, but who knows... It's Illinois, after all.

The border checkpoint thing is garbage, and I'm damn glad I've never run into one. I'm not an American citizen, and despite it being the law I don't carry my green card on me. That shit costs too much time and money to replace. Though, being white and not having an accent, my state ID would surely be fine. Even if I told them I was Canadian they probably wouldn't make a fuss. Funny, that. I just feel a bit angry about the fact that based on my status I would feel pressured to give up my rights (yes, they apply even to non-citizens, a large number of whom know these laws better than anyone because they have to). I would certainly not dare to act like those in the video.

Edit: let's be clear, though, these are not regular "cops".

 

[NataliaGrey]

Okay, I've always been wary of the police but this bothers me to no end. They should be required to answer questions like "am I being detained?" "am I free to go?"

There needs to be a class you can take in college that teaches you about your rights in these situations. I once had my car searched before because the cop thought we might have tobacco on us (what???) and I was unaware that when they say "May I search your car?" you're allowed to say "no".

As much as it sucks, it's generally in your best interest to just say "yes." If you say no, they'll probably call in a canine officer, have the dog sniff your car and "find" something. They can make their dogs act like it found something with signals, even if it actually didn't. Once a canine has tagged your car, they have the right to completely tear it apart in search for whatever it sniffed out. If you're innocent, better to tell them okay than have your car torn up, unless the principal matters more than a thousand dollars in repairs.

 

[bawksy]

As much as it sucks, it's generally in your best interest to just say "yes." If you say no, they'll probably call in a canine officer, have the dog sniff your car and "find" something. They can make their dogs act like it found something with signals, even if it actually didn't. Once a canine has tagged your car, they have the right to completely tear it apart in search for whatever it sniffed out. If you're innocent, better to tell them okay than have your car torn up, unless the principal matters more than a thousand dollars in repairs.

This is bad advice. You're accurate in that the cops can and will fabricate evidence and go hunting for laws that you may have violated if they don't like you. False positives with police dogs happens all the time. Same thing with false positives on roadside sobriety tests. It's very subjective. But you should never ever consent to a search, even if you think you have nothing to hide. You might not have nothing to hide. What if the last time your friend was riding in the passenger seat, she dropped a roach on the floor? What if you have a prescription needle for your insulin injections, but don't happen to actually have the proof of prescription on hand? You never know what might be accidentally hiding in your vehicle.

One time my [age 19] friend got pulled over for speeding. The cop asked to check his trunk, and he was like sure, I got nothing to hide, and popped the trunk. Turns out he completely forgot he had a 30 rack of beer in there from a week ago. Oops.

Better safe than sorry. Just say no to the search. If the cops call in the dogs and search your car anyways, a good lawyer will probably be able to get the search thrown out. But if you consent to a search, it's impossible to get it thrown out.

This is also why you should never confess to a crime, even if the evidence against you seems overwhelming. No, the cops cannot cut deals. No, the cops cannot "make things go easier on you" if you come clean. And if you confess, it's going to be extremely difficult for a lawyer to help you out, even if he is able to get that overwhelming evidence thrown out in court.

A lot of people who've never had a bad encounter with cops have the false belief that if you are innocent, you have nothing to fear from the police. This couldn't be further than the truth. Many cops have the mindset that "everybody is guilty of something", and so they have NO moral objection to giving false testimony ("testi-lying") in court. They figure even if you didn't actually commit the crime you're being charged with, you probably deserve it anyways.

Watch this video. It'll be the best 48 minutes you've ever spent in your life.

 

[Brad]

It is worth noting that you have a constitutional right to record police officer doing their official business with or without their consent. While several states have laws against people filming cops still on the books. In 2012, (Alvira, Anita V ACLU) a Federal district court ruled a IL statue prohibiting the filming of public officials including cops with their consent was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court refused to hear Illinois's appeal, so the ruling stands. So if a cop ask you to turn off your cellphone record, politely tell him or her, hell no.

The mess here in Illinois was to do with "wiretapping". Filming police is just fine, but then shit went down when someone was charged in (I think?) 2010 based on an obsolete law, making the recording of audio an issue. And you're only probably okay recording audio at present. They might not try to charge you anymore if you were to do it, but who knows... It's Illinois, after all.

You are correct as it was in response to the Illinois Eavesdropping Act. Here is more info but basically video recording is fine but audio recording is still against the Illinois law. But since the higher courts found this law unconstitutional Illinois won't try prosecuting it anymore. In other words it is still against Illinois law to audio tape but the law is bunk and Illinois knows it so they won't prosecute. At least that's how I read it. Just the usual Illinois legal BS.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?id=9059014

Knowing some of the applicable laws can help you protect yourself from the police/legal system. The net makes this so much easier then it used to be. In the past I have told cops what my rights were and what the law will allow them to do (or not to do) and never had an issue. I wasn't acting like an ass nor was I ever disrespectful. I refer to them as sir of officer and always calmly state the appropriate laws. Most quickly lose interest once they see that I am not ignorant of the law nor am I poorly educated.

NEVER consent or say ANYTHING without your legal council present. And if pushed to do or say something just politely repeat this to the police. Most of the time this is really all it takes. Don't show them you're an easy mark. The legal system is a business even if they don't want to admit it. They are there to try and make money and they aren't going to waste resources unless they think there's a payoff. Getting a warrant to search your car just because you say no is not going to be worth their time unless they think you really do have something substantial hidden. I have denied the police permission to search my vehicle before and have never had them seek a warrant to do so.

NEVER give the police a reason to pull you over. You should continually check your running lights, brake lights, reverse lights, and most important the license plate light. I spent 6 months on the grand jury and the bad license plate bulb was a very common reason for people to be pulled over. Also figure that anytime a cop is behind you they are running your plates because that is what they do. Make sure your plates are current for this reason.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

As much as it sucks, it's generally in your best interest to just say "yes." If you say no, they'll probably call in a canine officer, have the dog sniff your car and "find" something. They can make their dogs act like it found something with signals, even if it actually didn't. Once a canine has tagged your car, they have the right to completely tear it apart in search for whatever it sniffed out. If you're innocent, better to tell them okay than have your car torn up, unless the principal matters more than a thousand dollars in repairs.

This is bad advice. You're accurate in that the cops can and will fabricate evidence and go hunting for laws that you may have violated if they don't like you. False positives with police dogs happens all the time. Same thing with false positives on roadside sobriety tests. It's very subjective. But you should never ever consent to a search, even if you think you have nothing to hide. You might not have nothing to hide. What if the last time your friend was riding in the passenger seat, she dropped a roach on the floor? What if you have a prescription needle for your insulin injections, but don't happen to actually have the proof of prescription on hand? You never know what might be accidentally hiding in your vehicle.

One time my [age 19] friend got pulled over for speeding. The cop asked to check his trunk, and he was like sure, I got nothing to hide, and popped the trunk. Turns out he completely forgot he had a 30 rack of beer in there from a week ago. Oops.

Better safe than sorry. Just say no to the search. If the cops call in the dogs and search your car anyways, a good lawyer will probably be able to get the search thrown out. But if you consent to a search, it's impossible to get it thrown out.

This is also why you should never confess to a crime, even if the evidence against you seems overwhelming. No, the cops cannot cut deals. No, the cops cannot "make things go easier on you" if you come clean. And if you confess, it's going to be extremely difficult for a lawyer to help you out, even if he is able to get that overwhelming evidence thrown out in court.

A lot of people who've never had a bad encounter with cops have the false belief that if you are innocent, you have nothing to fear from the police. This couldn't be further than the truth. Many cops have the mindset that "everybody is guilty of something", and so they have NO moral objection to giving false testimony ("testi-lying") in court. They figure even if you didn't actually commit the crime you're being charged with, you probably deserve it anyways.

Watch this video. It'll be the best 48 minutes you've ever spent in your life.

+1 on the video. Well worth watching.

But I agree with Natalie, I am big fan of picking your fights wisely. Watching the first video, I kept say dudes just say you are a US citizen and get on with life. Big fucking deal they made the point that cops/INS/ or the silly California agricultural inspectors have little power to make you stop. Now they think these stops are unconstitutional but the Supreme Court disagree in a variety of cases. So I if one of the cops or INS arrested one of the guys, he very may well end up in jail. Something that would not have happen if he had just said, yes I am citizen can I go now.

On the other hand when the cops ask permission for search your car without a warrant then by all means politely tell them no way. It certainly can get you in trouble.