Who gets paid in BTC? What's your accounting trick for that?

[lavayax]

Hey everyone.

I'm wondering if anyone get paid in BTC here? How do you manage the creation of invoices for compliance?

I would like to give Chaturbate a free solution to attach a paid invoice with each payment but I'm not sure is there is any demand? Especially in crypto.

Boring stuff I know, but I'm sure I'm not alone with this btc payment compliance problem

 

[lotacy]

I hope nobody in BTC, a $20 tip would take at minimal $8 to $13 to send within a reasonable amount of time... i do often joke about the "future of money" (not trying to start an argument, blah blah pioneer, blah) but there is no reason people should be using it except they had old coins and are now multi-millionares...

that said, what are you talking about? you want to give a company that makes billions annually a free solution? you're up to something or not.... thinking......?

consider me curious.

EDIT: i must have overlooked your 2nd sentence which states your intentions.. but i am curious about the topic, none-the-less!

 

[chopper_daddy]

Doesn't matter how you get paid. Whether it's a cheque, bitcoin or any other processor. The point is claiming it as income at the end of the year. Thats how it is here in Canada at least.

 

[chopper_daddy]

I hope nobody in BTC, a $20 tip would take at minimal $8 to $13 to send within a reasonable amount of time... i do often joke about the "future of money" (not trying to start an argument, blah blah pioneer, blah) but there is no reason people should be using it except they had old coins and are now multi-millionares...

Your logic and math is poor here. Payment processors take a percentage to process transactions, same way BTC does. On Chaturbate, you pay $4 to initiate a BTC withdrawal. Yes, on $20 that is absurd, but on $500 + it isn't bad at all. Transactions fees MIGHT cost you $5 by the time it ends up in your BTC wallet.

 

[Nigerian Prince]

I hope nobody in BTC, a $20 tip would take at minimal $8 to $13 to send within a reasonable amount of time... i do often joke about the "future of money" (not trying to start an argument, blah blah pioneer, blah) but there is no reason people should be using it except they had old coins and are now multi-millionares...

that said, what are you talking about? you want to give a company that makes billions annually a free solution? you're up to something or not.... thinking......?

consider me curious.

EDIT: i must have overlooked your 2nd sentence which states your intentions.. but i am curious about the topic, none-the-less!

This is incorrect. Chaturbate takes a $3 fee, but the actual amount that arrives in your wallet is the exact value in USD that they owe you, based on the price when the earnings period ends. In fact, the vast majority of the payments I have received over the past 1-2 years have been higher than what Chaturbate owed me simply because the value of Bitcoin tends to increase in the 1-2 days it takes for them to actually send out the payments. Hell, the one time where there was a large discrepancy between what I was expecting and what I got, they sent me the difference, which accounted for the further 19% increase in the price of crypto since the earning period ended.

 

[lotacy]

Your logic and math is poor here. Payment processors take a percentage to process transactions, same way BTC does. On Chaturbate, you pay $4 to initiate a BTC withdrawal. Yes, on $20 that is absurd, but on $500 + it isn't bad at all. Transactions fees MIGHT cost you $5 by the time it ends up in your BTC wallet.

This is incorrect. Chaturbate takes a $3 fee, but the actual amount that arrives in your wallet is the exact value in USD that they owe you, based on the price when the earnings period ends. In fact, the vast majority of the payments I have received over the past 1-2 years have been higher than what Chaturbate owed me simply because the value of Bitcoin tends to increase in the 1-2 days it takes for them to actually send out the payments. Hell, the one time where there was a large discrepancy between what I was expecting and what I got, they sent me the difference, which accounted for the further 19% increase in the price of crypto since the earning period ended.

Hi!

I really just want to re-iterate a couple of things as well as provide some data for those who may be interested now or when randomly browsing later. I am pretty new around here, but I hope folks will find that I generally won't broach on a subject unless i am somewhat confident or versed in the topic i get involved with.

The thing is, most people have the wrong idea surrounding bitcoin... it truly has several issues, limitations, and flaws. It's a prototype coin, and a damn good one, but it was not designed to be scalable so it's as-is until the end of time. Having no way to implement change was done purposely from a security aspect, however without a full-scale test run, these previously unknown issues are now issues BTC will always have. There is a limited supply and it will be mined to capacity in a matter of a few decades. There have been forks, which i don't understand completely, but the network "disagrees" and splits away into two separate networks.. and it's happened a lot and will keep happening.

Realistically the one that will effect most of us is the blockchain has a tendency to get extremely bogged down and quite expensive to transfer. It will never be the "future of money", but it certainly has been a leading pioneer. Is this my opinion? I suppose it is my opinion, sure., but it's a common opinion held by many who understand the issues with BTC and realize blockchain technology will be a part of our future and it's full potential has yet to be discovered!

Should people be using bitcoin? No. (I use it quite often, don't get me wrong... gotta do what you gotta do, but there are FAR better options!)

So you want to send a $40 tip to a cammer? Great! Let's see what that would cost in Bitcoin. For reference purposes i will also include the fee for a $100,000 transfer. tip. <- giggity

The images below show us sending a marginal rate of 80sat/byte which for >1+ confirmations on average* takes 15 to 45 minutes to somewhat officially reach it's destination. A lot of vendors, exchanges, etc prefer to have any where from 4 to 10 confirmations before they will consider it to be officially completed.

I do a fair amount of BTC transfers annually, so i am basing my average for 1 confirmation off my personal experiences. I have waited over 2 hours for a single confirm but also have received in less than 1 minute, although *that* is rare!

I was a little shocked to see it so low right now, but for sending $40 or $100,000, (or $5) we are looking at a fee of $7.28. Please note the model will also be paying fees each time they send this $40. Anytime anyone sends this $40 or that $40 or any $40.

If you increased the sat/bytes to max, which sends a little faster, this depends on the blockchain congestion, number of pending transfers, value or size of said transfers. [Full disclosure, i don't know the exact programming methodology involved within this algorithm, but this is the gist of it!] Basically if there are some big transfers (7 to 10 figures USD) coming in the miners want that reward so they will adjust their priorities and fight to be one who solves the more profitable block. In return our little baby $100,000 and $40 transfers get shoved toward the back of the queue by losing priority rank.

Make sense? Kinda seeing what the issue with the speed and fees are? If not, maybe after we compare with Litecoin! (LTC)

I did not do a $40 transfer for LTC because all the money i saved by using LTC over BTC i am able to send $100,000 tips exclusively.

So earlier when i took the screenshot the fees for LTC transfers were 10 cents for any amount you send.

Here is a graph showing the fluctuation of LTC's fees since July 2018. It hovers below 12 cents pretty consistently. I don't have an answer for the spike, lol. The value of the coin didn't appear to change that drastically
I was curious... and all i can say is that the warning before you're able to unlock the CLI console in advanced wallets exist for a reason! It was a $~17,000 fee on a $~700 transfer. Play with fire..... https://beincrypto.com/litecoin-transaction-fee-17000-mistake/

Below is the average transaction fee chart for Bitcoin (BTC) - I included the average price with this and went back to 2016. You can see it appears to scale, but noticeably volatile all around.


Jump to next, as it was too long. <- no she didn't, either.

 

[lotacy]

Part 2/2 CONTINUED!

I will brief over 2 more coins starting with BCH (Bitcoin CASH) - This one sends really quick and has extremely low fees. I am not claiming to be an advocate for BCH in any capacity, but in the interim it's a mighty fine BTC replacement. Especially for things like tips, or...well... pretty much anything that accepts BTC or BCH, unless you got a big ol stash of BTC already.... sending BCH is an easy choice.

The chart below has the avg transaction fee for BCH at ~1/4 of 1 cent. ($.0023 USD) Current value ~$480 USD

The last coin, for no reason in particular, is Ripple - (XRP)

On this one the fees are basically non-existent since the coin is worth approximately .44 cents USD at this time. To show the impact of the price of XRP against the transaction fee i added the average price to the graph and went back a little further to 2017. By doing this we can see that when XRP was worth ~$3 USD the fee was ~$0.035 or 3½ cents USD. That's easy enough! To send $100,000 XRP at current value of ~$0.44USD it would cost less than 1 cent.


Welp, the information i laid out here explains why i said what i said when i said it this morning. I will stand by my statement as my logic and math is NOT poor, and nor am i incorrect. I will be one to admin that I don't know a lot about crypto, but i know enough to navigate and use comfortably. I have been exposed to this technology by having bought, sold, mined, or otherwise used in some capacity since ~2013.

This is not meant to be a guide, or any reason for anybody to start buying up or using crypto. This is not an ad for crypto or any of the sites listed below, or above.

Handy Links - Use these to reference pricing and all kinds of nifty data.

https://coinmarketcap.com/ - Prices and rank of any crypto coin on at least one known exchange
https://bitinfocharts.com/ - This is where i got the charts. To get specific, pick a coin from the top navigation bar.

For posterity purposes - I was using exodus wallet in the screen shots. I don't like it, but it's perfectly fine to use.
https://www.exodus.com/

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Hi!

I really just want to re-iterate a couple of things as well as provide some data for those who may be interested now or when randomly browsing later. I am pretty new around here, but I hope folks will find that I generally won't broach on a subject unless i am somewhat confident or versed in the topic i get involved with.

All this is irrelevant, because payment from Chaturbate through Bitcoin, which is what this thread is about, isn't affected by any of this.

 

[lotacy]

All this is irrelevant, because payment from Chaturbate through Bitcoin, which is what this thread is about, isn't affected by any of this.

I see. LOL.

I thought it was about individual tips and invoices for accounting and tax purposes and that users were sending tips directly to cammer in crypto.... that's why i said what i said regarding the fees.

Then when ya'll responded i was like, hold up, there's some mis-information here regarding fees?!?!

Well i apologize for my error!

Honestly i was pretty shocked at the blatant responses, so i went from there and wanted to provide details backing up the claim!!

 

[Nigerian Prince]

I see. LOL.

I thought it was about individual tips and invoices for accounting and tax purposes and that users were sending tips directly to cammer in crypto.... that's why i said what i said regarding the fees.

Then when ya'll responded i was like, hold up, there's some mis-information here regarding fees?!?!

Well i apologize for my error!

Honestly i was pretty shocked at the blatant responses, so i went from there and wanted to provide details backing up the claim!!

It should also be pointed out that you can always use lower transaction fees if time is not an issue, It's perfect for things like paying for custom videos. Though, since customs tend to be expensive anyways, high fees aren't as significant when looking at the overall cost.

 

[lotacy]

It should also be pointed out that you can always use lower transaction fees if time is not an issue, It's perfect for things like paying for custom videos. Though, since customs tend to be expensive anyways, high fees aren't as significant when looking at the overall cost.

Really? So after I made the mistake of replying this morning with my mind thinking TIP, setting myself up even writing TIP i my initial post... come back later and see that i was called wrong and of poor logic and incorrect, becoming blinded by confusion, and wanting to earnestly convey why bitcoin is a poor choice and that fees are actually VERY high... and then doing so in an educational and well-structured way, providing the gist of basic functionally surrounding sending tips, fees, adjusting fees, why and how it's slow or not, what causes the delays, providing screenshots, graphs, amounts... not only for BTC but also 3 or 4 alternatives which back up what i initially and still was at that time under the impression the topic of the thread actually was.. and feeling good about my post and hitting submit and then seeing your reply where by your own words call everything i did irrelevant to the thread... and then looking back over the thread.... feeling pretty dumb for a moment... and then i own up to my mistake.... explaining what happened.... and deciding the information is good, someone might use it.... it's relevant to bitcoin and crypto in general...then posting a family guy hit the dusty trail clip to save face and scooted on out of this little situation....then seeing your new reply...wondering is this guy for real?...and then creating my reply in this conflated mind-blown-esque run-on sentence. cuz..dude................i mean i guess you're the one who stepped up to bat on this..let's play ball, i..... guess....

seriously.

really?

maybe my "irrelevant" information isn't irrelevant at all....

how are you able to justify what you just said?

high fees aren't as significant when looking at the overall cost.

I don't know how much a custom video cost, but it does have a number attached to it.. so let's call it number.

the lowest nominal fee without getting into the iffy zone is around 32 sat/byte... so for number right now it's a $3 transfer fee..

"$3 not bad for number!!" i see you nodding your head already..

now the cammer has number and they gotta send it for $3, too

but wait you buy 1 custom video every month.. 12 months and pretending they don't fluctuate, but they do... and now you're at $36.. and maybe the model is, too. you buy 1 custom video from 3 different models every month for 1 year and let's safely average at $40 per year per model, $120 a year, that's $120 you're spending a year of YOUR MONEY for no reason. not only are you spending it, so is everyone else that comes across number. maybe, you do all your shopping in bitcoin you eat 3 meals, 2 coffees, gas,... c'mon man...

remember this is assuming everyone wants to potentially wait up to 8 hours for their money and is using the lowest fee every time. and it hasn't changed.

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ --- handy site showing sat/byte and how many clear in 24 hours

here's a small send i did 32 days ago at the lowest possible fee.... still hasn't show up and stays maxed priority.

Bitcoin transaction 9d334bec03681ceb3d854362bdf9d94822ae3b14276d934d1af8804767f2f996

Check out Bitcoin transaction, hash: 9d334bec03681ceb3d854362bdf9d94822ae3b14276d934d1af8804767f2f996, date: Jun 2, 2021 10:06:46 UTC.

blockchair.com

but wait, there's more, and i mentioned this, too.. unless you started out mining early on and have a stash of BTC... you're going to have to obtain it somehow.. and that is not cheap either.... not everyone has $200,000,000 worth of asics running in an old factory in China. last time i bought $50 on coinbase it cost $2 and jumping up to $1085 cost $40.86... that's just getting turned into BTC from USD.. then there's a smaller than normal fee cuz coinbase sends bulk..to move it to your wallet... so that $50 was $1.47 to do that...

the model has to get it off if they want USD.. so they pay a fee to send to their coinbase wallet... and finding a random sell of BTC to USD on my coinbase says i paid $35.84 on $2405

so if that doesn't convince you.... consider this.

you want to mention overall cost.... and for the most part the number doesn't matter, 7 cents or $700,000,000. it's every single transaction.

right now in 2021 there are ~400,000 btc transactions a day, let's pretend everyone is using the median fee, which rn is hovering around $7.

so every day BTC users are paying 2.8million USD in fees surrounding the block chain.
that's over 85 million a month.
that's over 1 billion a year.

so......

i'm genuinely curious.

FYI the most expensive option i presented as an alternative has a 10 cent fee and hasn't risen above 12.5 cents per transaction in years.
the rest were even cheaper.

but never mind those... i'll just be here waiting on your answer

remember, you had to go and reply, let's hear what ya got cuz i really don't see how anyone can justify these high fees
(btw the pink guy is me, all up in this forum lookin like a years worth of btc fees.)

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Really? So after I made the mistake of replying this morning with my mind thinking TIP, setting myself up even writing TIP i my initial post... come back later and see that i was called wrong and of poor logic and incorrect, becoming blinded by confusion, and wanting to earnestly convey why bitcoin is a poor choice and that fees are actually VERY high... and then doing so in an educational and well-structured way, providing the gist of basic functionally surrounding sending tips, fees, adjusting fees, why and how it's slow or not, what causes the delays, providing screenshots, graphs, amounts... not only for BTC but also 3 or 4 alternatives which back up what i initially and still was at that time under the impression the topic of the thread actually was.. and feeling good about my post and hitting submit and then seeing your reply where by your own words call everything i did irrelevant to the thread... and then looking back over the thread.... feeling pretty dumb for a moment... and then i own up to my mistake.... explaining what happened.... and deciding the information is good, someone might use it.... it's relevant to bitcoin and crypto in general...then posting a family guy hit the dusty trail clip to save face and scooted on out of this little situation....then seeing your new reply...wondering is this guy for real?...and then creating my reply in this conflated mind-blown-esque run-on sentence. cuz..dude................i mean i guess you're the one who stepped up to bat on this..let's play ball, i..... guess....

seriously.

really?

maybe my "irrelevant" information isn't irrelevant at all....

how are you able to justify what you just said?


I don't know how much a custom video cost, but it does have a number attached to it.. so let's call it number.

the lowest nominal fee without getting into the iffy zone is around 32 sat/byte... so for number right now it's a $3 transfer fee..

"$3 not bad for number!!" i see you nodding your head already..

now the cammer has number and they gotta send it for $3, too

but wait you buy 1 custom video every month.. 12 months and pretending they don't fluctuate, but they do... and now you're at $36.. and maybe the model is, too. you buy 1 custom video from 3 different models every month for 1 year and let's safely average at $40 per year per model, $120 a year, that's $120 you're spending a year of YOUR MONEY for no reason. not only are you spending it, so is everyone else that comes across number. maybe, you do all your shopping in bitcoin you eat 3 meals, 2 coffees, gas,... c'mon man...

remember this is assuming everyone wants to potentially wait up to 8 hours for their money and is using the lowest fee every time. and it hasn't changed.

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ --- handy site showing sat/byte and how many clear in 24 hours

here's a small send i did 32 days ago at the lowest possible fee.... still hasn't show up and stays maxed priority.

Bitcoin transaction 9d334bec03681ceb3d854362bdf9d94822ae3b14276d934d1af8804767f2f996

Check out Bitcoin transaction, hash: 9d334bec03681ceb3d854362bdf9d94822ae3b14276d934d1af8804767f2f996, date: Jun 2, 2021 10:06:46 UTC.

blockchair.com

but wait, there's more, and i mentioned this, too.. unless you started out mining early on and have a stash of BTC... you're going to have to obtain it somehow.. and that is not cheap either.... not everyone has $200,000,000 worth of asics running in an old factory in China. last time i bought $50 on coinbase it cost $2 and jumping up to $1085 cost $40.86... that's just getting turned into BTC from USD.. then there's a smaller than normal fee cuz coinbase sends bulk..to move it to your wallet... so that $50 was $1.47 to do that...

the model has to get it off if they want USD.. so they pay a fee to send to their coinbase wallet... and finding a random sell of BTC to USD on my coinbase says i paid $35.84 on $2405

so if that doesn't convince you.... consider this.

you want to mention overall cost.... and for the most part the number doesn't matter, 7 cents or $700,000,000. it's every single transaction.

right now in 2021 there are ~400,000 btc transactions a day, let's pretend everyone is using the median fee, which rn is hovering around $7.

so every day BTC users are paying 2.8million USD in fees surrounding the block chain.
that's over 85 million a month.
that's over 1 billion a year.

so......

i'm genuinely curious.

FYI the most expensive option i presented as an alternative has a 10 cent fee and hasn't risen above 12.5 cents per transaction in years.
the rest were even cheaper.

but never mind those... i'll just be here waiting on your answer

remember, you had to go and reply, let's hear what ya got cuz i really don't see how anyone can justify these high fees
(btw the pink guy is me, all up in this forum lookin like a years worth of btc fees.)

I'm not reading your wall of text lmao

 

[Lelo1]

I hope nobody in BTC, a $20 tip would take at minimal $8 to $13 to send within a reasonable amount of time...

Well you could cache in for tokens in advance, and then use them later.
But that kind of takes away the impulse buy.

 

[lotacy]

I'm not reading your wall of text lmao

right. well it implies a certain level of frustration surrounding the fact that you bothered to reply to my humble apology after calling my post irrelevant and then proceeding to prove that not true.

i'm beginning to speculate that you might just like having the satisfaction of having the last word. that's fine by me, as long as the last word isn't literally contradicting *everything* i mistakenly allocated effort to, apologized for, and was done with. besides, i didn't expect you to answer the question with any sort of encompassing answer, anyways.

it's all good, we're all on here for various reasons, but we are on the same team. i learn when i can and help when i can. i don't want drama and in my mind we aren't at that level, so i'm handing the stage over to you, front and center, wondering if you agree?

 

[lotacy]

Well you could cache in for tokens in advance, and then use them later.
But that kind of takes away the impulse buy.

i appreciate your reply, there's this whole thing where i messed up this morning and got it in my head this was about individual tips and then a whole slew of misunderstandings that follow. you may be following the same path i took, because i'm not sure i follow... assuming the model is cashing out tokens to begin with? maybe it turns to cash at some point before this?

 

[lavayax]

Okay I was mainly talking about end of period / monthly payment. Which are usually over $500.

Doesn't matter how you get paid. Whether it's a cheque, bitcoin or any other processor. The point is claiming it as income at the end of the year. Thats how it is here in Canada at least.

Yes I know. My question was referring to that aspect. How do you guys deal withe the:
- When was the payment
- who sent it
- what was the rate
- what currency you received
- what is it worth now?

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Okay I was mainly talking about end of period / monthly payment. Which are usually over $500.



Yes I know. My question was referring to that aspect. How do you guys deal withe the:
- When was the payment
- who sent it
- what was the rate
- what currency you received
- what is it worth now?

A lot sites and wallets will allow you to export your data, which can then be used on a variety of sites made specifically to help you do your taxes.

 

[lavayax]

Anyone has any info on how to justify a bitcoin payment from chaturbate?

We have money-laundering regulation here and I need to prove that this is a business payment, but it seems Chaturbate doesnt do self-invoicing? any help @punkerbarbie?

 

[lavayax]

Hey guys, just a heads up. I have stopped receiving payment in BTC, had to hire a lawyer firm to help justify the income - so it was not worth it!

I now go through Paxum and its WAY easier