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Why am I an angry Atheist?

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People that go around flogging their views tend to be annoying, be they atheists, theists, social reformists or whatever.

As for being an angry atheist, she should head over to Pakistan and see how that works for her. Angry vocal atheists only exist in countries where secular law is in ascendancy. You average "i don't give a fuck about religion, but your god really is a load of crap" atheists can exist anywhere, and are just happy being left to their own devices.

I don't care if you are atheist, or gay, or catholic or whatever, keep it to yourself and we will get along fine. This is not to say that you can't talk about it, I like an argument as much as the next person, but strident partisanism gives me a headache.
 
Neudiin said:
Thanks for not watching but just commenting...appreciate it =)

As an atheist, I am angry at her. First her litany of complaints for the most parts seem pretty petty. "in 60s atheist (allegedly) couldn't serve on juries", grossly oversimplifying "AIDS in Africa is a result of religious beliefs". But most of all cause after 10 minutes she still hadn't said anything interesting.
 
I can't get the video to load properly, it gets stuck a few minutes in...
 
HiGirlsRHot said:
Neudiin said:
Thanks for not watching but just commenting...appreciate it =)

As an atheist, I am angry at her. First her litany of complaints for the most parts seem pretty petty. "in 60s atheist (allegedly) couldn't serve on juries", grossly oversimplifying "AIDS in Africa is a result of religious beliefs". But most of all cause after 10 minutes she still hadn't said anything interesting.
Yeah she seemed to make reference to problems that society had with Atheists that could have been applied to many religious/race/sex/age groups.
 
I watched the entire video and yeah, she could probably have wrapped it up in five minutes but her litany of gripes were almost all on the mark--whether they are limited to atheist's anger or not.

I don't think she was saying she goes around angry all the time, but rather the concept of anger as "things that are valid to be angry about." Also, she wasn't "pushing atheism," but rather complaining about the fact that atheists as a group, even in our secular country are the most hated group--more so than fundamentalist muslims, gays, or other minorities--and then she goes on to show how all that anger toward non-believers is misplaced.
 
I'm an atheist and I actually watched all of it.

I agree with Shaun, I'm very rarely ever angry. I strive to be very happy person.

Does religion annoy me? Sure. Religion has done a lot of awful things in the past and it encroaches in my daily life and hurts others in some cases. Like, I'd love to adopt a child and give a child in need a home one day, but where I currently live--gay marriage and gay adoption are absolutely out of the question. We could adopt single but the other wouldn't have emergency rights in a lot of cases. Sure, there are legal loopholes to get mostly where we want, but it's expensive and time consuming and I don't feel like--as a human being trying to help another human being--it should be that difficult.

Gay marriage was a thing before Christianity took over Rome. It was a thing in ancient Greece and Egypt. I don't mean to get off-topic, but I'm tired of hearing the separate but equal argument for civil unions. Marriage was never really about love in the past anyway, it was never about religion--it was simply a legal contract oftentimes prearranged without the consent of the lady.

Those are what affect me on a day-to-day basis.

I regularly have to lie and say that my girlfriend of five years is my sister for access to "family only" services and places such as reduced rates and memberships and organizations. We cannot jointly foster which is something we would like to do eventually. I don't even want to get into what would happen if one of us was seriously injured and hospitalized.

This affects me because of religion.

Am I angry? No. I'm passionate. Anger will make you bitter eventually, passion will create change.

I agreed with most of what she had to say in the video.

I think that sometimes religion isn't bad, though, but when it affects my rights or any other innocent person's rights (mutilation of the genitals of small children and babies, honor killings, etc) then it is not so good anymore.
 
I'm a pretty angry and outspoken atheist myself, but I can't really state any of what she's said more clearly or effectively, so I'm not going to bother to try much at the moment. The video is long and she's addressing other atheists so some of her language is encoded for them and issues that will be familiar to the atheist community are simplified or stated in mocking tones, but I think most people will be able to identify with many or most of the things she says (I hope?) Because a lot of her anger stems from not only from atheist values, but also from humane values with the recognition that many religious values can be inhumane.

Once she gets past listing all the things she's angry about and gets into why, I think she illuminates why many minority groups, including but not at all limited to atheists, often come off as angry or otherwise extremely emotional when addressing certain subjects. It's personal. And I think it's entirely justifiable. I think anger is a natural reaction to situations that conflict with our emotions, morals and values. There's no reason to hide it if it's reality.

With reference to atheism specifically, sure, angry "New Atheists" are a change from the status quo of "keep it to yourself" that most atheists in the Western world adhered to until only relatively recently, but for a large part more atheists are now so much more outspoken because they no longer fear to be outspoken and because they've been able to form a community to exchange ideas. That needs to spread. The fact that many if not most people in the city I live in would only shrug if they heard that I'm an atheist is exactly why I think should continue to talk about it. I want others to have the luxury of it being no big deal! I want that for other groups as well!

That's why I think it's especially important to express honest feelings, including anger, in parts of the world where we happen to have the freedom to do so while others elsewhere do not. I'm free to babble people's ears off and mash my keyboard about atheism all I want while many, including plenty of Americans, would be in legitimate danger if they did the same. So to an extent I consider it a responsibility.

I don't think you need to agree with every point she makes in order to recognize that her emotions and those of other "angry" atheists are real, valid and worthy of consideration.

(BTW, I find the whole "keep it to yourself" thing referenced above to be quite hypocritical! I'll keep it to myself just as soon as everyone else keeps their shit to themselves! Let's get "In God we trust" removed from currency, "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, the ten commandments removed from every school and government building, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. And those are only the firmly institutionalized examples. FFS, right down to "bless you" every time I sneeze, religion is still all up in my face constantly. Why am I going to back down and ignore that? It's seen as a "default", as "neutral" or "normal", and I have a fucking problem with that! Makes me angry :p Hence parenthetical mini-rant! I almost NEVER bring up religion, but so often other people raise the issue nearly unconsciously and get frustrated when I point it out and discuss it, as if I was the one who started it. I'm not sorry for not ignoring it anymore!)
 
Lintilla said:
(BTW, I find the whole "keep it to yourself" thing referenced above to be quite hypocritical! I'll keep it to myself just as soon as everyone else keeps their shit to themselves! Let's get "In God we trust" removed from currency, "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, the ten commandments removed from every school and government building, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. And those are only the firmly institutionalized examples. FFS, right down to "bless you" every time I sneeze, religion is still all up in my face constantly. Why am I going to back down and ignore that? It's seen as a "default", as "neutral" or "normal", and I have a fucking problem with that! Makes me angry :p Hence parenthetical mini-rant! I almost NEVER bring up religion, but so often other people raise the issue nearly unconsciously and get frustrated when I point it out and discuss it, as if I was the one who started it. I'm not sorry for not ignoring it anymore!)

Couldn't agree more! How rude is it for someone to tell someone to "keep it to themselves". I'm constantly bombarded with Christianity around me in so many forms. I see heterosexual couples everywhere I go being affectionate even if just having an arm around one another, but how dare I hold my girlfriend's hand while waiting somewhere. I was asked to say grace in public high school in class.

It's everywhere.
 
Lintilla said:
I'm a pretty angry and outspoken atheist myself, but I can't really state any of what she's said more clearly or effectively, so I'm not going to bother to try much at the moment.

I don't think you need to agree with every point she makes in order to recognize that her emotions and those of other "angry" atheists are real, valid and worthy of consideration.

(BTW, I find the whole "keep it to yourself" thing referenced above to be quite hypocritical! I'll keep it to myself just as soon as everyone else keeps their shit to themselves! Let's get "In God we trust" removed from currency, "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, the ten commandments removed from every school and government building, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. And those are only the firmly institutionalized examples. FFS, right down to "bless you" every time I sneeze, religion is still all up in my face constantly. Why am I going to back down and ignore that? It's seen as a "default", as "neutral" or "normal", and I have a fucking problem with that! Makes me angry :p Hence parenthetical mini-rant! I almost NEVER bring up religion, but so often other people raise the issue nearly unconsciously and get frustrated when I point it out and discuss it, as if I was the one who started it. I'm not sorry for not ignoring it anymore!)


I am very much part of the keep it to yourself crowd. Like it or not we live in Judea Christian society. As a minority us atheist certainly have every right to protect our 1st Amendment rights to not practice any type of religion. This means our kids don't have to pray in school, we don't take oaths to swear to god and host of other things. What we do not have right to do is live in a religion free country. When and if we non-religious people become a majority then maybe the country will change. But it is important to remember that the first freedom is religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Several years I attended a debate between the President of the ACLU and Ken Star (the special prosecutor for Bill Clinton's impeachment. As you'd expect as a conservative and liberal they disagreed about a lot. But what was surprising was how much they agreed on. The end of the debate was one area they completely agreed on. The ACLU head said, that in this country people have a constitutional right to be OFFENSIVE, there is no constitutional right to be NOT OFFENDED. So if In God You Trust on the currency, Nativity scenes, 10 commandments etc and even the crazy Westboro Baptist spewing their homophobic BS at funerals offend you, well to a large extent I'd say get over it.

You certainly have every to be angry and express your displeasure. But be aware that the history of this country, the views of the majority, the constitution, 230 years of Supreme Court rulings all strongly favor the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. I personally believe that angry atheist hurt the cause, because it makes people like myself say hey they are being unreasonable, and not want to associate myself with them, eventhough I share their view on God.
 
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HiGirlsRHot said:
So if In God You Trust on the currency, Nativity scenes, 10 commandments etc and even the crazy Westboro Baptist spewing their homophobic BS at funerals offend you, well to a large extent I'd say get over it.

You certainly have every to be angry and express your displeasure. But be aware that the history of this country, the views of the majority, the constitution, 230 years of Supreme Court rulings all strongly favor the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. I personally believe that angry atheist hurt the cause, because it makes people like myself say hey they are being unreasonable, and not want to associate myself with them, eventhough I share their view on God.

I could honestly care less what is written on our currency or even what Westboro cooks up so long as it doesn't directly interfere in someone else's life. It is what affects my day-to-day life that bothers me. Yes, we live in a Judeo-Christian society, but we shouldn't be forced to abide by any religiously inspired, archaic laws. I don't mind viewing crucifixes or seeing Christian-inspired billboards or anything like that--it's the same as seeing ads for anything else to me.

But when our laws get based on some misogynistic hearsay written in an old book that not every religion or lack thereof follows, laws that intrude upon our basic rights in some cases, that isn't something we should just "get over". Saying that we should just "get over" something that affects us negatively and greatly is not the correct attitude to take in any situation.
 
I'm a little surprised that the "President of the ACLU" would say "get over" a religious motto on the country's currency. My understanding has been that the ACLU has been in the forefront to get that nonsense OFF our coins.

Same with the Ten Commandments. Sure, if you want to erect a sign on your property that has the Ten Commandments, have fun...but on Public Property, it's an ongoing fight.

As an atheist, I too have sometimes disagreed with other atheists--after all, we're just people first. But I take issue with anyone that says we should stfu because we're in a "Judeo Christian" country. That's just silly. There is no religion by that name. It's true that Christianity is the majority belief system in the country but in fact, the country is very diverse. We have Catholics, dozens of protestant sects, orthodox, Mormons, Jains, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, various native American beliefs...on an on. And I suspect that among that 'majority' many are closet atheists and agnostics.
 
BluexDakota said:
Couldn't agree more! How rude is it for someone to tell someone to "keep it to themselves". I'm constantly bombarded with Christianity around me in so many forms. I see heterosexual couples everywhere I go being affectionate even if just having an arm around one another, but how dare I hold my girlfriend's hand while waiting somewhere. I was asked to say grace in public high school in class.

It's everywhere.

Then stop living in a country full of uneducated rednecks. Education destroys religion, that is why people in Europe, Australia, Canada and the like can say ignore the whole thing. Teaching natural selection is schools exclusively with fix all of your problems in a generation or two. We have an Atheist PM who is not married to her partner. We didn't get to this point by teaching crap like bible as history in schools.
 
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BluexDakota said:
I could honestly care less what is written on our currency or even what Westboro cooks up so long as it doesn't directly interfere in someone else's life. It is what affects my day-to-day life that bothers me. Yes, we live in a Judeo-Christian society, but we shouldn't be forced to abide by any religiously inspired, archaic laws. I don't mind viewing crucifixes or seeing Christian-inspired billboards or anything like that--it's the same as seeing ads for anything else to me.

But when our laws get based on some misogynistic hearsay written in an old book that not every religion or lack thereof follows, laws that intrude upon our basic rights in some cases, that isn't something we should just "get over". Saying that we should just "get over" something that affects us negatively and greatly is not the correct attitude to take in any situation.

I agree and I am not suggesting you should get over it. There is a big difference protesting the role that some religious organization have in maintaining the laws against homosexual behavior and the angry atheist who seem intent on wiping out every trace of religion in public. As you say those attitude affect you greatly, In God you Trust on out currency not really.
 
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The "In God We Trust" motto was only added in the mid-1950s. It was a direct response to the McCarthy era and the mass paranoia about communism. It was a silly response then and it's now a remnant of our shame at being paranoid about a shitty economic system. Yeah, I don't want to go carrying signs about it but it does piss me off when I have time to think about it. :) It should be removed from our coins and the Pledge should go back to its secular form.

For those people who DO carry signs and carry on about it, I'm happy that some folks have the energy.
 
Yeah, the original currency definitely did not have "in God we trust".

In 1892, the original Pledge of Allegiance was:

""I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, as Nordling said, in response to the whole communism scare, "under God" was added. Our original founding fathers would probably be very upset to know that we've included the Christian god on everything. It doesn't really bother me much, to be completely honest, but just stating that just Benjamin Franklin, John Addams, and Thomas Jefferson would have been much more upset than I am.

I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.
 
Yeah, and to take that idea to another, related idea--though I think it's great that the US, along with many western countries accept political refugees from other countries, I sometime think that is one factor in why dictators sometime last for many decades. You can't make positive changes in the US by moving to France. :)
 
Nordling said:
The "In God We Trust" motto was only added in the mid-1950s. It was a direct response to the McCarthy era and the mass paranoia about communism. It was a silly response then and it's now a remnant of our shame at being paranoid about a shitty economic system. Yeah, I don't want to go carrying signs about it but it does piss me off when I have time to think about it. :) It should be removed from our coins and the Pledge should go back to its secular form.

For those people who DO carry signs and carry on about it, I'm happy that some folks have the energy.


That is because you believe atheist propaganda on faith. I became an agnostic/atheist after reading the bible at age 12 deciding, the bible was most likely a work of pure fiction, and have not gone to church since. I became an angry atheist for a short period of time, but sadly most every time I investigated their claims on things like religious views of the founding fathers, the discrimination against atheist they turned out to either gross exaggerations, or a lie in this case.

See here is what the Department of Treasury says about "In God We Trust", since they have been printing the money since the beginning. I am inclined to believe them more them some guys on the internet with an agenda.

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins...

The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.
The rest is herehttp://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx No mention of McCarthy in Treasury. In fact the joint resolution mandating the adding of In God We Trust to paper currency passed in 1956 two year after McCarthy was censured by Congress. Moreover the first paper currency appeared in 1935, before Joe was in office.. It seems that cost was one of the big reason it took a while for all bills to add the words In God we Trust.

But of course tying the addition of currency to McCarthy is clever propaganda.
 
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BluexDakota said:
I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.

You where whining about religion in the USA. I said you can either move to a civilised country or increase the quality of education in the USA to destroy religion in one or two generations. Do try and read whole sentences before you launch into more whining about something you didn't read properly.
 
Red7227 said:
BluexDakota said:
I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.

You where whining about religion in the USA. I said you can either move to a civilised country or increase the quality of education in the USA to destroy religion in one or two generations. Do try and read whole sentences before you launch into more whining about something you didn't read properly.

Wow, what an educated individual you must be. Thanks for showing what you really are! ;)
 
BluexDakota said:
Red7227 said:
BluexDakota said:
I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.

You where whining about religion in the USA. I said you can either move to a civilised country or increase the quality of education in the USA to destroy religion in one or two generations. Do try and read whole sentences before you launch into more whining about something you didn't read properly.

Wow, what an educated individual you must be. Thanks for showing what you really are! ;)
No kidding. And he makes it sound like we can just flip a light switch and suddenly education will improve ten-fold.

It's a vicious cycle. So long as a majority of people believe that religion should influence government crap, then we will keep putting people into government offices who continue to let religion seep into things it doesn't belong in (education, women's health, family planning), then that education leads individuals to grow up to believe that religion should influence government crap....

I'm sure I didn't say that very eloquently, but I assume you get my simple point. And even if I don't believe that education is the center of it all, I think it's going to take a LONG time before we move in the right direction where neither heavy religion nor atheism is something that's shoved in our faces, because (though it shouldn't be) so many from each side thinks it has to be a war between the two.

-- also --

Red, I don't think this is the first time you've made a post that paints you like an elitist, and I just want to personally say that I don't want it to bother me, but it does. Think you could tone it down a bit, or is that just so much your nature that you can't avoid it?
 
Red7227 said:
BluexDakota said:
Couldn't agree more! How rude is it for someone to tell someone to "keep it to themselves". I'm constantly bombarded with Christianity around me in so many forms. I see heterosexual couples everywhere I go being affectionate even if just having an arm around one another, but how dare I hold my girlfriend's hand while waiting somewhere. I was asked to say grace in public high school in class.

It's everywhere.

Then stop living in a country full of uneducated rednecks. Education destroys religion, that is why people in Europe, Australia, Canada and the like can say ignore the whole thing. Teaching natural selection is schools exclusively with fix all of your problems in a generation or two. We have an Atheist PM who is not married to her partner. We didn't get to this point by teaching crap like bible as history in schools.

FFS Australia is over 60% Christian, I guess they're uneducated rednecks too. :shifty:

9IMbW.gif


That's alot of uneducated rednecks in the world. :eek:

As far as holding hands in public... if anybody gives you grief, fuck 'em. Not a big fan of excessive PDA, but people who are against holding hands, hugs or brief kisses, etc. need to get a life and stiop worrying what other people are doing.
 
HiGirlsRHot said:
Nordling said:
The "In God We Trust" motto was only added in the mid-1950s. It was a direct response to the McCarthy era and the mass paranoia about communism. It was a silly response then and it's now a remnant of our shame at being paranoid about a shitty economic system. Yeah, I don't want to go carrying signs about it but it does piss me off when I have time to think about it. :) It should be removed from our coins and the Pledge should go back to its secular form.

For those people who DO carry signs and carry on about it, I'm happy that some folks have the energy.


That is because you believe atheist propaganda on faith. I became an agnostic/atheist after reading the bible at age 12 deciding, the bible was most likely a work of pure fiction, and have not gone to church since. I became an angry atheist for a short period of time, but sadly most every time I investigated their claims on things like religious views of the founding fathers, the discrimination against atheist they turned out to either gross exaggerations, or a lie in this case.

See here is what the Department of Treasury says about "In God We Trust", since they have been printing the money since the beginning. I am inclined to believe them more them some guys on the internet with an agenda.

[...]

The rest is herehttp://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx No mention of McCarthy in Treasury. In fact the joint resolution mandating the adding of In God We Trust to paper currency passed in 1956 two year after McCarthy was censured by Congress. Moreover the first paper currency appeared in 1935, before Joe was in office.. It seems that cost was one of the big reason it took a while for all bills to add the words In God we Trust.

But of course tying the addition of currency to McCarthy is clever propaganda.
You are correct about coinage. Sorry, I often mix the "in god we..." inscription on coinage with the "...under God..." addition to the Pledge, which was done as a response to McCarthy era fear of communism. Still, IMHO the deity has no reason to be on anything that the government issues. In fact one argument that even some believers accept is that putting God on our currency is an insult to God...it kind of upgrades Pluto (as in plutocrat) as the main deity of the US. :)

Using the word "propaganda" is clever propaganda too. :)
 
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AmberCutie said:
Red, I don't think this is the first time you've made a post that paints you like an elitist, and I just want to personally say that I don't want it to bother me, but it does. Think you could tone it down a bit, or is that just so much your nature that you can't avoid it?

There is nothing elitist about Australia, it is a Democratic secular country, like most of Europe and Australasia. Both my parents are immigrants from Europe who were in Nazi concentration camps in WWII. When I was unemployed for 4 years the government gave me enough money to live on, when I went to uni for 7 years the government paid for most of it, when mum was sick the government paid over 1 million dollars to keep her alive, which we didn't pay one cent of that.

If comparisons with other countries makes you uncomfortable then that isn't something I can fix.
 
Red7227 said:
AmberCutie said:
Red, I don't think this is the first time you've made a post that paints you like an elitist, and I just want to personally say that I don't want it to bother me, but it does. Think you could tone it down a bit, or is that just so much your nature that you can't avoid it?

There is nothing elitist about Australia, it is a Democratic secular country, like most of Europe and Australasia. Both my parents are immigrants from Europe who were in Nazi concentration camps in WWII. When I was unemployed for 4 years the government gave me enough money to live on, when I went to uni for 7 years the government paid for most of it, when mum was sick the government paid over 1 million dollars to keep her alive, which we didn't pay one cent of that.

If comparisons with other countries makes you uncomfortable then that isn't something I can fix.
I didn't say Australia was elitist, I said you sound like YOU are. The way you word your posts is most definitely fixable. If you don't want to, I understand, was just pointing out that it turns my stomach a little achey.
 
Red7227 said:
If comparisons with other countries makes you uncomfortable then that isn't something I can fix.
If you were comparing countries, that would be fine. Bashing America is a different story. Calling Americans uneducated rednecks and gutless bullies among other things is far from just comparing. There's no shortage of idiots in the lounge that like to spew crap like that.
 
BluexDakota said:
HiGirlsRHot said:
So if In God You Trust on the currency, Nativity scenes, 10 commandments etc and even the crazy Westboro Baptist spewing their homophobic BS at funerals offend you, well to a large extent I'd say get over it.

You certainly have every to be angry and express your displeasure. But be aware that the history of this country, the views of the majority, the constitution, 230 years of Supreme Court rulings all strongly favor the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. I personally believe that angry atheist hurt the cause, because it makes people like myself say hey they are being unreasonable, and not want to associate myself with them, eventhough I share their view on God.

I could honestly care less what is written on our currency or even what Westboro cooks up so long as it doesn't directly interfere in someone else's life. It is what affects my day-to-day life that bothers me. Yes, we live in a Judeo-Christian society, but we shouldn't be forced to abide by any religiously inspired, archaic laws. I don't mind viewing crucifixes or seeing Christian-inspired billboards or anything like that--it's the same as seeing ads for anything else to me.

But when our laws get based on some misogynistic hearsay written in an old book that not every religion or lack thereof follows, laws that intrude upon our basic rights in some cases, that isn't something we should just "get over". Saying that we should just "get over" something that affects us negatively and greatly is not the correct attitude to take in any situation.

I just want to add, that when it comes to groups like the WBC, and other religious groups that are openly hateful towards others (WBC gets called out by name because they are blatantly and unapologetically against gays, and have even attempted to protest the funerals of CHILDREN recently, thinking it was "god's punishment" for allowing gay marriage in the state...) THOSE actions are harmful.

I like to point out that there is a difference between religion and spirituality. Religion is an indoctrination, teaching you WHAT to think instead of HOW. I'm not saying religion is inherently bad or evil, because I do know a sadly fair amount of homophobic atheists too. People can be dicks, regardless of their spiritual or cultural upbringing. But when that gets in the way and harms others, I have a problem with it.

I used to be an angry atheist. For the most part, I am a 'keep it to yourself' atheist, because my views and ideas on spirituality do not necessarily 100% coincide with the rest of the group. I sometimes have an easier time describing myself as a 'spiritual atheist', because there are certain things that I subscribe to from other faiths, primarily Buddhism, but I do not believe in any one God, only the inherent god-given nature of humanity itself... (Meaning, to me, everyone is God in a way)

What this means to me, is that everyone has a divine right to exist in peace, without anyone judging them for what they think, believe, like, or love. Angry atheists are no different from any other minority who is angry about being put down, treated as second class, or abused, be it mentally, physically, etc.

Lots of horrible things have been done in the name of religion, and even, the expansion of America. "Manifest Destiny" meant that we had the God-given right to take the land of the Natives, exploit Asian immigrants, and enslave Africans. I am honestly quite thankful to live in a society that is civilized enough for me, a woman, to be able to express this differing opinion and object to religion as I see fit.

Telling someone to "shut up or leave" is incredibly insensitive. I was born here, so my upbringing, my socialization is my identity. I'm not about to turn tail and run just because my country is "a bunch of uneducated rednecks" (BTW, there are more groups out there that are offensive and annoying than just rednecks. And a fair majority of my family is/came from groups that could be considered as such. Not all rednecks are terrible people, just saying.) The reason behind this is, if you run, they win. If you shut up, they win. A closed mouth doesn't get fed, and if you don't assert yourself, your views don't get heard and you continue to be trampled over.

I'm always a fan of how this country is run. Sometimes I'm still convinced we are in some kind of dark age of human rights. I am also aware that people can be dicks, whether they're religious or not. I am an angry atheist for the same reason I am an angry woman. My beliefs and my values are considered less in some people's eyes, and what I fight for is equality.

/rant over
 
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