Neudiin said:Thanks for not watching but just commenting...appreciate it =)
Neudiin said:Thanks for not watching but just commenting...appreciate it =)
Yeah she seemed to make reference to problems that society had with Atheists that could have been applied to many religious/race/sex/age groups.HiGirlsRHot said:Neudiin said:Thanks for not watching but just commenting...appreciate it =)
As an atheist, I am angry at her. First her litany of complaints for the most parts seem pretty petty. "in 60s atheist (allegedly) couldn't serve on juries", grossly oversimplifying "AIDS in Africa is a result of religious beliefs". But most of all cause after 10 minutes she still hadn't said anything interesting.
Lintilla said:(BTW, I find the whole "keep it to yourself" thing referenced above to be quite hypocritical! I'll keep it to myself just as soon as everyone else keeps their shit to themselves! Let's get "In God we trust" removed from currency, "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, the ten commandments removed from every school and government building, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. And those are only the firmly institutionalized examples. FFS, right down to "bless you" every time I sneeze, religion is still all up in my face constantly. Why am I going to back down and ignore that? It's seen as a "default", as "neutral" or "normal", and I have a fucking problem with that! Makes me angry Hence parenthetical mini-rant! I almost NEVER bring up religion, but so often other people raise the issue nearly unconsciously and get frustrated when I point it out and discuss it, as if I was the one who started it. I'm not sorry for not ignoring it anymore!)
Lintilla said:I'm a pretty angry and outspoken atheist myself, but I can't really state any of what she's said more clearly or effectively, so I'm not going to bother to try much at the moment.
I don't think you need to agree with every point she makes in order to recognize that her emotions and those of other "angry" atheists are real, valid and worthy of consideration.
(BTW, I find the whole "keep it to yourself" thing referenced above to be quite hypocritical! I'll keep it to myself just as soon as everyone else keeps their shit to themselves! Let's get "In God we trust" removed from currency, "under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, the ten commandments removed from every school and government building, yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah. And those are only the firmly institutionalized examples. FFS, right down to "bless you" every time I sneeze, religion is still all up in my face constantly. Why am I going to back down and ignore that? It's seen as a "default", as "neutral" or "normal", and I have a fucking problem with that! Makes me angry Hence parenthetical mini-rant! I almost NEVER bring up religion, but so often other people raise the issue nearly unconsciously and get frustrated when I point it out and discuss it, as if I was the one who started it. I'm not sorry for not ignoring it anymore!)
HiGirlsRHot said:So if In God You Trust on the currency, Nativity scenes, 10 commandments etc and even the crazy Westboro Baptist spewing their homophobic BS at funerals offend you, well to a large extent I'd say get over it.
You certainly have every to be angry and express your displeasure. But be aware that the history of this country, the views of the majority, the constitution, 230 years of Supreme Court rulings all strongly favor the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. I personally believe that angry atheist hurt the cause, because it makes people like myself say hey they are being unreasonable, and not want to associate myself with them, eventhough I share their view on God.
BluexDakota said:Couldn't agree more! How rude is it for someone to tell someone to "keep it to themselves". I'm constantly bombarded with Christianity around me in so many forms. I see heterosexual couples everywhere I go being affectionate even if just having an arm around one another, but how dare I hold my girlfriend's hand while waiting somewhere. I was asked to say grace in public high school in class.
It's everywhere.
BluexDakota said:I could honestly care less what is written on our currency or even what Westboro cooks up so long as it doesn't directly interfere in someone else's life. It is what affects my day-to-day life that bothers me. Yes, we live in a Judeo-Christian society, but we shouldn't be forced to abide by any religiously inspired, archaic laws. I don't mind viewing crucifixes or seeing Christian-inspired billboards or anything like that--it's the same as seeing ads for anything else to me.
But when our laws get based on some misogynistic hearsay written in an old book that not every religion or lack thereof follows, laws that intrude upon our basic rights in some cases, that isn't something we should just "get over". Saying that we should just "get over" something that affects us negatively and greatly is not the correct attitude to take in any situation.
Nordling said:The "In God We Trust" motto was only added in the mid-1950s. It was a direct response to the McCarthy era and the mass paranoia about communism. It was a silly response then and it's now a remnant of our shame at being paranoid about a shitty economic system. Yeah, I don't want to go carrying signs about it but it does piss me off when I have time to think about it. It should be removed from our coins and the Pledge should go back to its secular form.
For those people who DO carry signs and carry on about it, I'm happy that some folks have the energy.
The rest is herehttp://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx No mention of McCarthy in Treasury. In fact the joint resolution mandating the adding of In God We Trust to paper currency passed in 1956 two year after McCarthy was censured by Congress. Moreover the first paper currency appeared in 1935, before Joe was in office.. It seems that cost was one of the big reason it took a while for all bills to add the words In God we Trust.The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins...
The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.
Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."
The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.
BluexDakota said:I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.
Red7227 said:BluexDakota said:I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.
You where whining about religion in the USA. I said you can either move to a civilised country or increase the quality of education in the USA to destroy religion in one or two generations. Do try and read whole sentences before you launch into more whining about something you didn't read properly.
No kidding. And he makes it sound like we can just flip a light switch and suddenly education will improve ten-fold.BluexDakota said:Red7227 said:BluexDakota said:I also think it's ridiculous for me to be told that if I want basic rights in a 1st world country, I need to move elsewhere. That's definitely the epitome of how change happens. You don't stand your ground in your country and fight for what you believe in... you flee elsewhere, right? No. That's ignorant to me. Yes, I may live in redneck county where education is not top priority but instead of running away, I can try to make change in my community.
You where whining about religion in the USA. I said you can either move to a civilised country or increase the quality of education in the USA to destroy religion in one or two generations. Do try and read whole sentences before you launch into more whining about something you didn't read properly.
Wow, what an educated individual you must be. Thanks for showing what you really are!
Red7227 said:BluexDakota said:Couldn't agree more! How rude is it for someone to tell someone to "keep it to themselves". I'm constantly bombarded with Christianity around me in so many forms. I see heterosexual couples everywhere I go being affectionate even if just having an arm around one another, but how dare I hold my girlfriend's hand while waiting somewhere. I was asked to say grace in public high school in class.
It's everywhere.
Then stop living in a country full of uneducated rednecks. Education destroys religion, that is why people in Europe, Australia, Canada and the like can say ignore the whole thing. Teaching natural selection is schools exclusively with fix all of your problems in a generation or two. We have an Atheist PM who is not married to her partner. We didn't get to this point by teaching crap like bible as history in schools.
You are correct about coinage. Sorry, I often mix the "in god we..." inscription on coinage with the "...under God..." addition to the Pledge, which was done as a response to McCarthy era fear of communism. Still, IMHO the deity has no reason to be on anything that the government issues. In fact one argument that even some believers accept is that putting God on our currency is an insult to God...it kind of upgrades Pluto (as in plutocrat) as the main deity of the US.HiGirlsRHot said:Nordling said:The "In God We Trust" motto was only added in the mid-1950s. It was a direct response to the McCarthy era and the mass paranoia about communism. It was a silly response then and it's now a remnant of our shame at being paranoid about a shitty economic system. Yeah, I don't want to go carrying signs about it but it does piss me off when I have time to think about it. It should be removed from our coins and the Pledge should go back to its secular form.
For those people who DO carry signs and carry on about it, I'm happy that some folks have the energy.
That is because you believe atheist propaganda on faith. I became an agnostic/atheist after reading the bible at age 12 deciding, the bible was most likely a work of pure fiction, and have not gone to church since. I became an angry atheist for a short period of time, but sadly most every time I investigated their claims on things like religious views of the founding fathers, the discrimination against atheist they turned out to either gross exaggerations, or a lie in this case.
See here is what the Department of Treasury says about "In God We Trust", since they have been printing the money since the beginning. I am inclined to believe them more them some guys on the internet with an agenda.
[...]
The rest is herehttp://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx No mention of McCarthy in Treasury. In fact the joint resolution mandating the adding of In God We Trust to paper currency passed in 1956 two year after McCarthy was censured by Congress. Moreover the first paper currency appeared in 1935, before Joe was in office.. It seems that cost was one of the big reason it took a while for all bills to add the words In God we Trust.
But of course tying the addition of currency to McCarthy is clever propaganda.
AmberCutie said:Red, I don't think this is the first time you've made a post that paints you like an elitist, and I just want to personally say that I don't want it to bother me, but it does. Think you could tone it down a bit, or is that just so much your nature that you can't avoid it?
I didn't say Australia was elitist, I said you sound like YOU are. The way you word your posts is most definitely fixable. If you don't want to, I understand, was just pointing out that it turns my stomach a little achey.Red7227 said:AmberCutie said:Red, I don't think this is the first time you've made a post that paints you like an elitist, and I just want to personally say that I don't want it to bother me, but it does. Think you could tone it down a bit, or is that just so much your nature that you can't avoid it?
There is nothing elitist about Australia, it is a Democratic secular country, like most of Europe and Australasia. Both my parents are immigrants from Europe who were in Nazi concentration camps in WWII. When I was unemployed for 4 years the government gave me enough money to live on, when I went to uni for 7 years the government paid for most of it, when mum was sick the government paid over 1 million dollars to keep her alive, which we didn't pay one cent of that.
If comparisons with other countries makes you uncomfortable then that isn't something I can fix.
If you were comparing countries, that would be fine. Bashing America is a different story. Calling Americans uneducated rednecks and gutless bullies among other things is far from just comparing. There's no shortage of idiots in the lounge that like to spew crap like that.Red7227 said:If comparisons with other countries makes you uncomfortable then that isn't something I can fix.
BluexDakota said:HiGirlsRHot said:So if In God You Trust on the currency, Nativity scenes, 10 commandments etc and even the crazy Westboro Baptist spewing their homophobic BS at funerals offend you, well to a large extent I'd say get over it.
You certainly have every to be angry and express your displeasure. But be aware that the history of this country, the views of the majority, the constitution, 230 years of Supreme Court rulings all strongly favor the right of religious people to practice their beliefs. I personally believe that angry atheist hurt the cause, because it makes people like myself say hey they are being unreasonable, and not want to associate myself with them, eventhough I share their view on God.
I could honestly care less what is written on our currency or even what Westboro cooks up so long as it doesn't directly interfere in someone else's life. It is what affects my day-to-day life that bothers me. Yes, we live in a Judeo-Christian society, but we shouldn't be forced to abide by any religiously inspired, archaic laws. I don't mind viewing crucifixes or seeing Christian-inspired billboards or anything like that--it's the same as seeing ads for anything else to me.
But when our laws get based on some misogynistic hearsay written in an old book that not every religion or lack thereof follows, laws that intrude upon our basic rights in some cases, that isn't something we should just "get over". Saying that we should just "get over" something that affects us negatively and greatly is not the correct attitude to take in any situation.