Why I no longer tip - one member's experience

[NyGuy]

Before we get started, this is my first post on the forum (great idea to start a forum btw Amber) and it is not meant to be argumentative. It is my hope that I can share my experience in a manner that is beneficial to the members of this site.



So a bit on my experience:

I first joined MFC in mid 2011, and immediately made the transition from basic to premium; I made my first token purchase within an hour of my discovering the site. I probably spent my 200 tokens that same day and did so by spying on privates and joining a couple group shows. It didn't take long before I began to appreciate the benefits to taking girls private and I gained lounge1000 access within weeks. I would say over the first 9 months of my membership I spent over $10,000 on various private shows since, at that time, the way to obtain the content I sought required me to pay for private shows.

However, I haven't purchased tokens since June, and the reason for my decline in expenditure has nothing to do with finances.



The problem:

From what I have seen, it has become increasingly apparent that the way to make money on MFC (amongst top earners, at least) is through building a room count and counting on <1% of the room to tip generously, either to meet countdown objectives or to gain perceived status within the room. For some premium members, garnering the model's attention is a goal worth tipping for; however, I am not that member and I suspect there are many who feel similarly. I come to MFC to masturbate, I apologize for being crude but that's the reality. I don't frequent the site in an attempt to make friends with the models or foster some kind of fantasy where my tips are going to garner the model's favor such that we can meet in real life and live happily ever after together (I suspect some members think this way). I stopped buying tokens, not out of concern for personal finances, but because so much of what I originally was spending money for had become free. I've noticed in my limited time on the site that many models who were never naked in public a year ago are now naked there consistently, and many who reserved toy play for private shows now do so in public chat.

I feel this is the core issue that fuels the concerns I've seen on this forum of reduced earnings and the proliferation of freeloaders. I would liken it to a paradigm where one goes grocery shopping and everything in the store is free; the store accepts donations from its patrons but requires no payments. How many of you, models included, would donate the amount commiserate with the groceries you took rather than simply taking what you need and allocating those funds to an activity that doesn't give you the option of enjoying it for free?

I am not entirely sure what my goal is with this post, other than to say that models shouldn't condemn members for freeloading when freeloading is the rational way to approach MFC. Instead, they should blame their fellow models for allowing this behavior to become acceptable. I'm reminded of the caution many mothers pass on to their daughters, 'no one's going to buy the cow if you give the milk away for free'.

Rather than condemn freeloaders I think the models on this site should condemn those amongst them who offer free shows that disincentivize members from paying for content.



Again, I didn't post this to be a jerk or to pass judgment on anyone. Upon browsing this forum I merely came upon a lot of misplaced aggression towards freeloaders. If I'm way off base, then so be it. I am happy to elaborate on any element that is unclear and hope that my experience can be beneficial to members and models alike.

 

[SoTxBob]

IMO, you're not off base at all. Much the same thing has been said at times here but quickly followed up with the 'we have to compete with xxx' ... much goes to the rules that were once a concern to be followed and now are basically nil. Instead of pointing fingers at girls or members, I'd look square to site management and what they allow in free, especially since many lower CS girls follow the lead of the top darlings. :twocents-02cents:

 

[bob]

Again, I didn't post this to be a jerk or to pass judgment on anyone. Upon browsing this forum I merely came upon a lot of misplaced aggression towards freeloaders. If I'm way off base, then so be it. I am happy to elaborate on any element that is unclear and hope that my experience can be beneficial to members and models alike.

an excellent post.....i would only add that, to be fair, there is a reasonable percentage of models who DO appreciate your pov, and have taken a stance at their work which doesn't embrace the increasingly "in your face" attitude of the free show.

in my perfect world, mfc would not have become the place that it is....but laissez-faire capitalism is nothing if it isn't about running an idea into the ground :lol: ....and the law of diminishing returns which invariably follows it....from a purely "student of the videochat phenomena" standpoint, it will be interesting to see just how mfc will adapt to its increasingly competitive marketplace

 

[Shaun__]

Things have changed since I joined as well. One of the first models I spent a lot of time with used to just do privates, and stayed fully clothed in public chat. Seeing a nipple slip was a joyous and special thing. She was very popular, and her name would occasionally pop up in the top twenty list during the course of the month. Now she does public shows. It has been a long time since I hang out with her so I have no idea why she changed.

 

[NyGuy]

IMO, you're not off base at all. Much the same thing has been said at times here but quickly followed up with the 'we have to compete with xxx' ... much goes to the rules that were once a concern to be followed and now are basically nil. Instead of pointing fingers at girls or members, I'd look square to site management and what they allow in free, especially since many lower CS girls follow the lead of the top darlings. :twocents-02cents:

SoTxBob, thanks for the reply. I disagree though. Management isn't to blame. Would you blame the US government if Apple put Samsung out of business by offering people free iphones? In that case, Samsung should blame Apple. In the context of our discussion, models should blame the models giving the commodity away for free as the source of their struggles, not the management (government).

The situation is similar to what, in economics, is referred to as a 'race to the bottom'. Bad competitors sacrifice margins for volume just as some models sacrifice their earnings per member for a lower margin from a greater pool.

 

[victor0021]

MFC isn't a porn site it's a social experiment in a free market. Yes there will always be freeloaders and some models will always keep pushing the boundaries to get people to come into their rooms, but it is successful because it caters to a large variety of demographics. People that like privates and group shows can do that, people that like the social aspect of it can do that, and freeloaders are free to stay and pump up room counts. As far as MFC is concerned it already won with you, you came in spent your money and now you freeload. Who knows maybe one day you will find a girl you really like that doesn't do free shows and you might spend again, if not it's no loss to them.

I understand your sentiment and i'm sure there are many that feel like you, but everyday they are getting new tippers to replace you. Freeloaders will be bashed because in this social ecosystem(couldn't think of a good word to use here) they are the lowest form of the species to the good tippers and the models, it doesn't effect them and I really wouldn't be too concerned about it. They give something for the people that like the social aspect to bond over creating a greater sense of community.

 

[JickyJuly]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

 

[SoTxBob]

Not so much the Samsung Vs Apple, but if the Govt said no smart phones allowed and they did it anyway, who would be at fault for non enforcement of the rule ?

 

[NyGuy]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in your driveway, give you the keys, and tell you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

 

[bob]

Things have changed since I joined as well. One of the first models I spent a lot of time with used to just do privates, and stayed fully clothed in public chat. Seeing a nipple slip was a joyous and special thing. She was very popular, and her name would occasionally pop up in the top twenty list during the course of the month. Now she does public shows. It has been a long time since I hang out with her so I have no idea why she changed.

I have a good model friend who just recently made the same choice, Shaun.....she has stopped short of the free show, but she now has adopted "the countdown" for a variety of things which leave ready for that final slide down the slippery slope.....
and that exactly how it feels to her, and explains why she struggled with her decision for almost four months, until a nearly 2000 point drop in cs (and commensurate drop in income) left her feeling she had no choice

Her income has increased...her cs has stabilized...but I can already feel that law of diminishing returns kickin in......there's still an increased interest in her room, but less of an interest in her privates and groups. Good days are still spotty....and bad days are finding there way back into her work....the stress on her is tangible to me

I only posted this because you said you had no idea why she changed....that's one model's experience.

 

[JickyJuly]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

 

[NyGuy]

Not so much the Samsung Vs Apple, but if the Govt said no smart phones allowed and they did it anyway, who would be at fault for non enforcement of the rule ?

I'm pleasantly surprised that the Apple v. Samsung in the context of the government analogy I used is actually more elegant that I originally thought. MFC collects, let's call it 'sales tax' just as the government does. The government doesn't care what people buy so long as consumption increases. Thus, MFC is irrational in prohibiting things that would cause consumption to increase. Rules against allowing toys in public etc may have been designed to protect consumption originally, but now that the site has matured, allowing them increases consumption as the size of the user pool has increased. Thus, you can't blame MFC for letting up on those rules just as you can't blame the central bank (at the behest of the government) for keeping interest rates artificially low and proposing quantitative easing as, in long run, it stimulates consumption.

 

[victor0021]

A better comparison would be tipping at a restaurant, no one is required to do it but its common knowledge that the proper thing to do is tip for the service provided. Some people are tools and don't tip waitresses, but I never hear anyone argue "well they didn't tip why should I?". You can rationalize freeloading all you want it's still a shitty thing to do.

 

[Bocefish]

A lot of people saw this coming years ago. You can't selectively enforce rules whenever the mood strikes or pick & choose which models can do what. It's either allowed or not allowed, period. Some models will do whatever they have to in order to pay the bills. It's ultimately the site's across the board lack of enforcement and greed with it's scamscores and Miss MFC competition that has lowered the quality of the site in my opinion. But hey, they're still laughing all the way to the bank so I doubt anything will change until something lowers MFC's profit margin.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[NyGuy]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[victor0021]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

Dude the only small minded one here is you. You are tipping for a service provided when you tip. Not a free car or anything else. You are freeloading because the site allows it. Don't act like freeloading isn't a douche move.

Ok another example. Downloading copyrighted stuff for free, do people do it? yes. Does the industry still work with people doing? yes. Are the people downloading stuff for free being douche bags for doing it? yes.

 

[NyGuy]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

Dude the only small minded one here is you. You are tipping for a service provided when you tip. Not a free car or anything else. You are freeloading because the site allows it. Don't act like freeloading isn't a douche move.

Ok another example. Downloading copyrighted stuff for free, do people do it? yes. Does the industry still work with people doing? yes. Are the people downloading stuff for free being douche bags for doing it? yes.

Let's keep this civil, I didn't attack anyone and don't think anything I've said warrants attacks. Additionally, I am willing to bet Ive spent more on models than the bulk of members on this site and 99% of the MFC population, so I'm hardly the enemy here.

To your point, I am not actually receiving a service. You point about restaurants is a good one, but still, the waiter is providing ME a service in that case whereas on MFC, the model isn't providing a service to any particular member and the concept of reciprocity, the backbone of the argument for tipping in restaurants, does not apply. The model will do what she's doing regardless of whether or not I am in the room, thus there is no element of reciprocity.

I reiterate, I didn't make this post to justify freeloading. I did so to point out that freeloaders aren't the problem, giving away a good for free is. If no models did public shows, there would be no freeloaders and, in an environment where goods are being given a way for free, the rational action is to accept the free good and allocate those funds to goods that cannot be obtained for free.

 

[JickyJuly]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

Yes yes. I'm just a small minded twat for thinking you don't have a right to collect services for free. You're looking at MFC like a company that all these women work for. We're independent contractors. We work for ourselves. I, personally, don't do public shows, but I certainly don't feel any other woman who is trying to pay her bills owes me or MFC anything as it pertains to how she runs her room. It's not small minded not to want to loot the shit out of your own city in the midst of chaos just because you can. It's called having some integrity. You're trading your integrity to get off for free instead of just throwing nickels. Nothing you can say and nothing anyone else does or doesn't do will change that.

 

[victor0021]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

 

[NyGuy]

I would venture to point out the obvious and say that BOTH freeloading members and models who rely on public shows are to blame for this. The fact that a model is using public shows doesn't undo the fact that you're freeloading if you enjoy the show without throwing a few tokens. I'm not sure why personal responsibility is so lacking in our world, but few things are as unattractive as people making excuses. If you're against the rise in public shows, don't watch them. You can't really point out that the shows are killing mfc while you hold your dick in your hand and sit on your wallet.

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

Yes yes. I'm just a small minded twat for thinking you don't have a right to collect services for free. You're looking at MFC like a company that all these women work for. We're independent contractors. We work for ourselves. I, personally, don't do public shows, but I certainly don't feel any other woman who is trying to pay her bills owes me or MFC anything as it pertains to how she runs her room. It's not small minded not to want to loot the shit out of your own city in the midst of chaos just because you can. It's called having some integrity. You're trading your integrity to get off for free instead of just throwing nickels. Nothing you can say and nothing anyone else does or doesn't do will change that.

Did I call you a 'small minded twat'? I merely said it is small minded to think that because you can;t see the person from whom you're taking money, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Your post implies that you would consider it improper to loot your own city but ok to loot the city of another. Think about that for a second. That view invites others to loot your city and leaves you in the exact same position.

Maybe I made a mistake by framing this discussion in the context which I did, I have actually continued to tip, but framed the argument as such to illustrate MFC is essentially an economy of sorts, and it's irrational to expect people to pay for goods where payment if not a requirement of their consumption. Further, to blame the consumer for their consumption is missing the point entirely, the issue is with those who allow goods to be consumed for free.

 

[NyGuy]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

 

[Nordling]

Another analogy that just occurred to me. "Shareware." In the original concept, shareware was a deal where you acquired software for free and tried it out, if you found it useful, you voluntarily paid for it, if not, you deleted it from your computer. If you found it useful and continued to use it without paying, you were a douche.

Thus, if you enjoy your time spent in a cam model's room but don't even tip her belly button lint, you sir, are a douche.

 

[Nordling]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

Please. "Views" don't have minds. When you say someone's views are small minded, you are saying that person is small minded.

 

[NyGuy]

Another analogy that just occurred to me. "Shareware." In the original concept, shareware was a deal where you acquired software for free and tried it out, if you found it useful, you voluntarily paid for it, if not, you deleted it from your computer. If you found it useful and continued to use it without paying, you were a douche.

Thus, if you enjoy your time spent in a cam model's room but don't even tip her belly button lint, you sir, are a douche.

That's actually a great example that gets right to the heart of what I'm arguing. Do companies still give their software away for free or did that prove to be an unsustainable business model?

 

[sexyvee_x]

Why do you come here bragging about being a freeloader? That is not cool... Basically if everyone had your attitude MFC would go under and there would be no camgirls for you to jerk over Why not tip a few tokens (20?) to say thanks for a show it's not hard. You said you go on MFC only to masturbate then why the hell are you here on ACF? Members and models come here to socialise sorry you won't find any free pics or vids here bb.

 

[Nordling]

Another analogy that just occurred to me. "Shareware." In the original concept, shareware was a deal where you acquired software for free and tried it out, if you found it useful, you voluntarily paid for it, if not, you deleted it from your computer. If you found it useful and continued to use it without paying, you were a douche.

Thus, if you enjoy your time spent in a cam model's room but don't even tip her belly button lint, you sir, are a douche.

That's actually a great example that gets right to the heart of what I'm arguing. Do companies still give their software away for free or did that prove to be an unsustainable business model?

Lots of companies still use Shareware as their business model, yes.

 

[NyGuy]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

Please. "Views" don't have minds. When you say someone's views are small minded, you are saying that person is small minded.

This is an entirely different discussion and not something that I think we need to get into, but you're implying that there's no difference between acting and being? So in your mind any woman who is dressed provocatively is a slut and someone who, if raped, deserved it?

 

[victor0021]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

Please. "Views" don't have minds. When you say someone's views are small minded, you are saying that person is small minded.

This is an entirely different discussion and not something that I think we need to get into, but you're implying that there's no difference between acting and being? So in your mind any woman who is dressed provocatively is a slut and someone who, if raped, deserved it?

Douche..........

 

[bob]

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

I have to agree that the object to person comparison weakens the personal argument that nyguy presents, but it's possible to find other "service" industries where tipping is expected...waitressing comes to mind.....and i agree with Victor's observation that mfc in particular is structured more as a social environment than a sexual one.....or at least most of us would seem to agree that it used to be.

In that environment, tipping (or privates....or group) was a social expectation for a service provided....in much the same way we all tip waiters/waitresses....it was expected and considered a natural economic transaction that indicated appreciation for the service performed.....

The movement to free shows has turned that model on it's head.....i personally hold management responsible for that change through it's ad campaign which celebrated never "paying for a show again". Much as I agree that nyguy outta tip more :lol: I don't find anything amiss with his attitude.....I've seen plenty of $20 premiums say the same thing without the consideration and concern that his OP demonstrated.

Last point...for a good many members and models, the "social environment" model is still alive, with all of it's "tipping" expectations....and to mfc's credit, it's software and the layout of the site still encourages that environment....this forum exists for a lot of reasons, but one of them is as an extension of the community we enjoy there.....I'd rather have a freeloader come here and make a case for our apathy, than listen to them at mfc mocking everything that I like about it because they're proud of how easily it can be exploited


:twocents-02cents:
maybe a nickle :whistle:

 

[JickyJuly]

JickyJuly - I appreciate both the reply and your viewpoint but I think you're missing the key issue; if Mercedes decided to park a new S Class in you driveway,give you the keys, and told you that you were welcome to make the payments if you wanted to, but that you were under no obligation to do so, would you make the payments or simply enjoy the free car?

When you watch a show, you're not taking keys and driving off. You're watching a human who likely has bills to pay. If you can't be assed to throw a few nickels, fine. No one can make you. BUT don't compare that girl to some company that has machinery to hand out. It isn't the same. Maybe if you add into the analogy that I'd have to look into the eyes of some other sap who'd be paying the bill if I chose not to, it would be a few steps closer to the truth. In that case, the case of expecting someone else to pay my bill, NO I would absolutely not accept these magic keys you speak of.

Jicky, your view is very small minded, it's EXACTLY the same thing. While you don't see the person whose money you're taking, you are taking money from a company that has shareholders who ultimately suffer. The value of people's pensions and retirement accounts decline by the value of the car for which you didn't pay. Simply because you can't put a face to the person you're taking money from doesn't mean they don't exist.

Yes yes. I'm just a small minded twat for thinking you don't have a right to collect services for free. You're looking at MFC like a company that all these women work for. We're independent contractors. We work for ourselves. I, personally, don't do public shows, but I certainly don't feel any other woman who is trying to pay her bills owes me or MFC anything as it pertains to how she runs her room. It's not small minded not to want to loot the shit out of your own city in the midst of chaos just because you can. It's called having some integrity. You're trading your integrity to get off for free instead of just throwing nickels. Nothing you can say and nothing anyone else does or doesn't do will change that.

Did I call you a 'small minded twat'? I merely said it is small minded to think that because you can;t see the person from whom you're taking money, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Your post implies that you would consider it improper to loot your own city but ok to loot the city of another. Think about that for a second. That view invites others to loot your city and leaves you in the exact same position.

Maybe I made a mistake by framing this discussion in the context which I did, I have actually continued to tip, but framed the argument as such to illustrate MFC is essentially an economy of sorts, and it's irrational to expect people to pay for goods where payment if not a requirement of their consumption. Further, to blame the consumer for their consumption is missing the point entirely, the issue is with those who allow goods to be consumed for free.

I added twat for humorous value because this thread is kind of a downer. 1. Saying I wouldn't loot my own city in NO WAY implies that I would loot the city of another. 2. You're confusing goods and services. If you wanna go steal porn, fine. You're a pirate. However, when you sit in a camgirl's room with the attitude that you should be serviced and she should get nothing, you are wrong. 3. Nordling said it best, you're a douche. Not only do you want to sit there and freeload, but you want to come to a forum of camgirls and dudes who play the game correctly and ask us to pat you on the head and say it's okay. Good luck with that, Goober.