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Wonder Woman

Discussion in 'TV and Movies' started by JizzyJezebel, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. JizzyJezebel

    JizzyJezebel I'm kind of a big deal.
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    I saw it last night with my boyfriend and it was fantastic! Gal Gadot and Chris Pine give great performances and play off each other so well. It is my probably my favorite superhero movie so far. And I hope that will it make Marvel finally value their woman superheroes. It wasn't without its faults. The third act was probably the weakest part and was disjointed somewhat. And I wish it had resolved at a different point. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed it!
     
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  2. Sdog1982

    Sdog1982 Awesomesauce

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    The movie was fantastic! The no mans land scene was awesome. This ranks right up there as one of the best superhero movies.
     
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  3. Lelo1

    Lelo1 Rocks your Socks

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    This is the best movie in the current DC movie universe. Pacing was slow, but the story was good. Some one fell asleep in the movie theater.
     
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  4. TashaRose

    TashaRose Awesomesauce
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    Definitely had flaws (I'd have liked to see more of a... reincarnation I guess? type of thing with Ares), but oh man it was still delightful. I wasn't even particularly enthused about seeing it (I like WW and all, but I'm not a big DC fan, and have been pretty let down by them in the movie dept lately), but holy shit I sobbed the whole movie. Chris Pine was so endearing, although his character seemed... almost too similar to another character by the same first name who is played by the an actor who also has the same name as him.
     
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  5. GenXoxo

    GenXoxo All your thread are belong to me.
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    The whole thing reminded me so much of Captain America: The First Avenger! (Except WW got the inferior Chris...)
    Overall I liked it, it was fun and I'll definitely see it again. I'm excited for Justice League because I think I'll like modern WW more than the new-to-the-world version, though I found her characterization in BvS weird. I just want No Man's Land Diana all the time, haha.

    I loved the scenes on Themyscira sooooo much :inlove: it was all so perfect!
     
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  6. TashaRose

    TashaRose Awesomesauce
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    I think WW explained why she seemed so... I want to say irritated, but it isn't the right word, with both Bruce and Clark in BvS- like she was just "okay, you two are morons, let me get shit done while you guys have your little pissing match" and it makes so much more sense after seeing her history of leaving Themyscira (which, holy shit those scenes of the island were so beautiful, and Robin Wright was fucking amazing).
     
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  7. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    Great movie! I went in half expecting it to be some half-baked fem-nazi movie where they made all men seem like buffoons, and girl power was the only way to save the day. I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't as such.

    Beautiful scenery, great SFX, etc. My only complaint was the scene at the end with Ares. Just seemed a bit... Dunno, overdone in typical superhero fashion? Also, they couldn't have changed his face once they put him into armor?
     
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  8. GenXoxo

    GenXoxo All your thread are belong to me.
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    The part that bugged me in BvS was her being a socialite and being kind of flirty and banter-y, it reminded me of Catwoman. I've never read a WW comic where she isn't to-the-point and so it felt odd to me. She isn't one to use her looks or sexuality to toy with boys nowadays and it felt like they slotted that in to fit the plot and make her ~sexy and mysterious~. I also had hoped in this movie they'd shed light on why she disappeared for a century but then WW ended with "I choose love and helping people" and so it feels still very unwrapped to me. I'm excited to see where they go with her character in Justice League! Hopefully I will get the answers I seek, haha.

    I saw it again today and sat next to some ten year old boys who giggled for like three minutes when Steve and Diana kissed :haha:
    Also the lady behind me said "oh come on" when she let down her hair before battle which also made me laugh
     
  9. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    Well, yeah. We all know hair gets tied up when shit gets serious... ;)
     
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  10. IsabellaSnow

    IsabellaSnow All your thread are belong to me.
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    Does it not bother anyone else that they keep advertising this movie as a feminist movie, yet they chose a super skinny, beauty queen/super model to play the lead role and then coated her with several inches of make up?
    With all the issues women have right now with negative body images and eating disorders which has come from exactly the industry that Gal Gadot has made her fame on using her looks, you would think they might be a little bit more sensitive when choosing a female super hero, rather than "one for the wank bank" for the boys.
    Personally I am fed up with this fear of women with any form of physical strength that even in a superhero movie where the lead role has pretty much been working out constantly through her life, she has next to no visible muscle. They didn't need to cast a female body builder, but maybe someone who looks like they could physically lift a sword would be nice. Maybe for once they could have chosen a woman who did have thicker thighs or a bit of arm muscle as the female lead, given the opportunity for a film to show a different representative of female strength and beauty other than the little skinny mini's that are continuously pushed down our throats. But of course, Zak Snyder did the casting, and he is a notorious sexist. So I guess I shouldn't have expected anything more. Why they even let him near Wonder Woman (or the other DC films) I have no idea.
     
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  11. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    That was something I noticed right away, is that she was not muscular at all. I figured they would have done with her what they did with the actors in 300, etc. Or, cast someone with more muscle. In some MFC circles, there's talk of how Aspen Rae would have been ideal for the role due to her bodybuilding. She's muscular. But, not so big that she's freakishly big like some of the pros are.

    There were a couple of supporting Amazon roles, and other female characters whom were either larger in size due to muscularity or a little "softer" if you will. But, overall, I agree with you in that I'd like to see the public's perception change in terms of women being muscular in key lead roles. Not just acting, everywhere.

    In regards to this movie, while I noticed it right away, I tried to not let it overshadow other aspects of the movie. In some ways, it was difficult enough to not compare it to Linda Carter's Wonder Woman.
     
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  12. IsabellaSnow

    IsabellaSnow All your thread are belong to me.
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    I did think of Aspen when I saw that Gal had put on next to no muscle. If a little skinny mini like Aspen can turn into a super hero lookalike then I don't see why Gal couldn't have put on a little bit of bulk. But I have a feeling that was deliberate. I think Aspen is gorgeous both ways, but I know that there are a lot of men who do not appreciate her new form. It is still not the popular look for women, and women in movie roles often have a weaker appearance.
    It is disappointing seeing as Henry Cavill put on shed tons of muscle for Superman, and I heard so many guys saying how happy they were that finally they had an actor who looked the role. With superman though, he has super powers, so his strength isn't from muscles. With wonder woman it absolutely is. She is physically strong, and her character would not give a fuck about make up or getting "too bulky".

    I agree that I would like perceptions to change of different types of bodies, and I felt this film would have been a great place to start in showing young women that it is ok to not look like the typical skinny super model. Except they picked literally the skinniest super model to play the lead role. Enforcing the belief that it's ok to be a strong woman, but your looks are number 1 priority.
    I remember watching Bridget Jones when I was younger and seeing her with a bit of weight made me feel really happy and positive about my changing body (I was about 10/11), but as I grew into my teens and realised that on screen it was basically illegal for a woman to have any fat. It didn't exactly make me feel positive about my very healthy and normal size and shape. So what we see on screen definitely does alter our perceptions of what we believe is attractive.
     
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  13. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    Aspen is truly a beautiful woman. Outside and in. I admire and appreciate how she's forging her own path in life, and keeps her dedication to her passions. Role model not only for women. But, men as well.

    Superman's physique is more athletic, IMO. Growing up with Christoper Reeves as Superman, I had no issues with it as that was what the early comics also portrayed (mostly). Though, probably closer to Cavill's role.

    In the Wonder Woman movie, she is a half-god. So, her strength comes from that. So, in a way, I can see the lack of muscle. But, with her being a half-god, she should have been far more muscular as we've discussed.

    In some ways, I can understand the looks and strength aspect. Men are subject to it as well, though on a much smaller scale. But, in most cases in life, it's your individual strengths which makes you a success.

    Sadly, there's many opportunities lost in many movies.
     
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  14. IsabellaSnow

    IsabellaSnow All your thread are belong to me.
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    But even with being half god, she still would have been working out and using her physical body, kind of like Hercules is meant to be very muscular, while he gets powers from being a demi god, he also works at it. Some Gods aren't meant to be as muscular, but I would imagine that Diana would be seeing as she is an Amazon.

    Wonder Woman is one of my favourite storylines and characters. I loved the cartoon film, it's well written and has some good jokes in it about her coming to the world of man. I have been put off this particular version, even a while ago when Gal laughed at people who were upset about her being cast due to her physique, making it seem like it was about "looks". Which annoyed me seeing as I was upset because it was clear that the only reason she had been cast was because of her looks. So to have a super model throw that back in people's faces when they complain that they only see super models rather than women more representative of the female population, that it's not "all about looks". I feel a bit like saying "fuck you". I would have liked a lead character that has some natural curves, it would be nice for breasts and curves to not always be represented as a sexual thing and have a lead character with a less "boyish" physique. But I wouldn't have minded if she had less going on there, just so long as she looks like she could actually do the kind of physical activity that their roles play.
    I know this has been a problem with a fair amount of female actresses in action movies, where they choose women who are so physically weak that they have trouble picking up the guns on set.

    Oh and I totally agree with you about Aspen, I've always seen her as a bit of a role model when it comes to camming. But with everything she has achieved I sometimes check out her pictures if I want inspiration for life and what you can achieve. Like you say, for men as well as women.
     
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  15. Dan Epstein

    Dan Epstein firstchoicepay.com (previously Payoneer)
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    I used to wait Gal on Gadot's table a few times in 2012, don't let her little physique fool you, she is physically stronger than she looks. She's not a method actress, and I didn't see the movie, but she impressed me as an extremely nice and intelligent person to work with. She never made a fuss of herself, and always made jokes about herself at the presence of photographers and local fans on a hectic TLV street cafe. I didn't see the movie yet because I currently don't have the mental resources for another DC cinematic 3 hours long fiasco, whether it has a male of a female protagonist in it.
    If you wish to see a realistic strong, yet sensitive female protagonist, "Girlfight" from 2000 is a great example, all of the drama, yet non of the sugar coating . As for comics, I'm a sucker for graphic novels and there is a great abundance of "slice of life" creations with a lot more variety beyond the DC universe.
     
  16. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    Same here. I believe she is a great role model in a comic sense. I actually preferred to read her over Batman and some others. Though, Superman and Green Arrow (not TV show) were too for me with DC
     
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  17. GenXoxo

    GenXoxo All your thread are belong to me.
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    Stuff like that does bother me. I think it's tough for actors (or anyone in the public eye) to not take things personally, but I know a lot of the criticism about her getting cast had nothing to do with her specifically, but rather people feeling exhausted that a role that could've realistically been filled by a different-than-the-norm actress went to one who looks very traditionally Hollywood. She was a model as well, she looks even slimmer than most actresses, so it felt like a very deliberate choice; I also remember reading that Snyder was specifically looking at model-actresses though that might've been a rumour. I was hoping she'd get as jacked as Henry Cavill or Ben Affleck, but alas. Obviously Wonder Woman has been drawn many different ways (and I actually hate the argument that "sometimes she's skinny in the comics" because soooo many comic artists draw the same body for every woman and draw chicks more fuckable than functional), but it makes sense for her to be at least a little buff. And it seemed like a bit of a cop-out to say "well she's a God so she doesn't need to be buff"; it looked a little silly to see her holding her own with women like Artemis and Antiope. Also I think if I'd grown up on Themyscira I'd be like "when the fuck am I gonna get ripped like the rest of you?!?"

    Tbh I found it funny that the film had to remind you every two seconds that she's totally hot. A lot of the choices they made with it were weird to me (the "lemme just let down my long, thick hair for battle" being one of them). I couldn't stop staring at her buttcheek as Ares is showing her what the world could've been. The costumes were beautifully made but I find it looks weird on screen (especially in the Justice League trailer next to everyone else covered from the top of the head to the tip of the feet).

    One small interesting thing I noticed -- there's multiple times where she does a jumping kick or whatever and her skirt flares up, showing us the booty. Which is fine because skirts do that. But I found it interesting because last year, an artist quit doing covers for the WW comics because his art got changed to show less butt. And a lot of bloggers and friends of mine were supportive of the writer who said we didn't need to see that much Wonderbutt. The same people are loving this movie (and giving it the full Beyoncé effect -- you can't just like it, you must literally cry forever and publicly declare that it is life changing, flawless, etc). Obviously there's a contextual difference as ones a cover and ones an entire movie but I find it interesting. The cover (you can see it in the link) isn't nearly as sexual, to me, as WW smirking on the ground with her legs spread in BvS, or as objectifying as a dude saying "I want a picture of your face, I am frightened and aroused" rather than "so wait, who is this random lady". I don't necessarily have an issue with any of those (or I do but can understand why some people don't), but it's just been interesting to see with some folks when sexualization/objectification gets called out and when it doesn't.

    In general I've seen feminists cape HARD for this film and one feminist lady pointed out that there seems to be a feeling that any criticism will ruin lady superheroes forever; I saw someone reply to one (fairly neutral) critique saying this is why we can't have nice things, why can't we just be happy to have a girl movie. One woman said that guys she knew said it was a good movie while all the women were crying and so grateful for it, she framed this as a way to say that men didn't appreciate how important and inspiring it was to women. A guy replied that men seemed to be treating it as a movie (a good one), and women were treating it as a historical moment (for which it is much bigger and better than it is just as a movie). I agreed with that in a lot of ways and also that's how I learned I must be a man :rofl:

    Fuuuuuck I wrote too much again! I did like this movie. It wasn't a life-changing experience for me (and even with a vajayjay, I don't find Gal and her Wondy any more relatable or representative of me than any of the male dudes) but it was a really fun and good superhero movie and I am so happy it's doing well and that people aren't shitting on DC anymore. My excitement levels for Justice League are off the fucking charts.
     
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  18. GenXoxo

    GenXoxo All your thread are belong to me.
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    Green Arrow is the fucking best and I am crossing all my fingers and toes that we get a classic Ollie in the movies some day!

    Play by Charlie Hunnam who I've never seen in anything but look at that blonde beard!!
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. IsabellaSnow

    IsabellaSnow All your thread are belong to me.
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    This made me laugh so much!

    When I first watched the trailer I felt the whole thing seemed a bit like "Chris Pine goes to an island and meets a super sexy babe! And how cute, she plays with armor and huskily says in her sexy, sexy accent light remarks that could be feminist.".
    It looked like a film that would be good fun in its own right if you don't follow wonder woman or know much about it. But if you do it's also kind of a big slap in the face.
    Like "here's the first female superhero movie! Go ladies, your wait is over and we will reach equality!" Then in the same sentence "But we are going to cast and produce the entire movie around male viewers and use the female lead role as a character for male sexual fantasy. And we'll hire a much more famous male actor to steal the lead role. Just a reminder you know, that we're happy to make money off women wanting equality, but this is still your role!"

    I wouldn't be surprised if that were what Zak Snyder had been looking for when he cast her, and I think it is worth noting that she did put next to no bulk on was probably deliberate because a lot of men still go "ew, girls with muscles, gross". I am sure that she is a perfectly nice person and has her own strength, but it does not stop that this is just one example of a bigger problem that many young women are facing. We have male leads such as Seth Rogan and Michael Cera (and many more) who physically fit very different (and more natural) physiques and are the heroes, winning the girl and getting what they want. But in their films they always date toned, slim women of the same typical hollywood physique.

    I am all for having a beautiful Wonder Woman, but her beauty should not have been the main event, and her role shouldn't have been chosen for what men would find beautiful and sexy. I would have been more impressed with Gal as Wonder Woman had she not been so perfectly dolled up (because seriously, why would she wear make up? A bit of make up yes, but not catwalk make up), and if she had put on a bit more bulk, or there had been an attempt with make up and editing to make her look a bit bulkier. This isn't her fault, but I felt like the image was wrong for the character.
     
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  20. GenXoxo

    GenXoxo All your thread are belong to me.
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    Oh dang you just reminded me, when she goes to London and is shopping and looks at the corset/lingerie and says "this is what passes for armor?!" It looked the same as the gold outfit she was wearing to train in...like the materials didn't look that different and it felt like a weird line to include in a film where her armor leaves all of her limbs exposed.

    It felt like film was trying to be feminist by making little quips like that about empowerment or whatever while also upholding the things it's chastising. Sometimes I think media that claims feminism and uses it as a marketing tool ends up fucking itself because they set their own bar too high. Like how Joss Whedon espouses feminist views (and has certainly profited from being seen as a feminist) but then gets dragged twice as hard because the bar is higher than it is for, say, Michael Bay. (Speaking of Whedon, did anyone else see the Twitter storm about his old Wonder Woman script? It was so bad.)
     
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  21. IsabellaSnow

    IsabellaSnow All your thread are belong to me.
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    This definitely, feminism is what is "in" right now, and while I am happy for that to be so as it's raised a lot of awareness, a lot of companies are trying to profit on it. And of course, by trying to profit, they completely miss the point. Kind of like film makers who hire non white people to get in with all the ethnic minorities, but end up appearing even more racist. You're happy that they at least tried, but then you're still cringing inside.
    The problem is when marketing campaigners "have a go" without really understanding why women aren't happy, it tends to go tits up. Like you say with Wonder Woman, they are upholding everything that woman are fighting against, but making it feminist because they're commenting on it.
    I have met young men who like to say they're feminist because girls will be more receptive to them, but of course if they aren't actually a feminist and don't know what it means, it will shine through fast. Like a buzz word "I want genders to be equal" but matched along with "so long as they don't remove any of my rights". Which of course cannot go hand in hand. If you have ten marbles and one person has 7 marbles and the other has 3, that is unequal, but for you to have an equal amount of marbles the person with 7 needs to give up two of theirs. I think this is where some men get annoyed, they see this as being unfair, and that women should find more marbles, or even misinterpret the equal marbles as her receiving more. But in this particular game, there are only ten, therefore for equality to happen, one party needs to make sacrifices to create an even balance.
    This means that people can't just use "feminism" as a buzz word to sell things but keep their tried and tested ad campaigns. There needs to be sacrifice and change. And it is annoying when you see film makers etc trying to profit over something that they clearly don't give a fuck about.
     
  22. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    For myself, I have no issues with equality. If someone is a better candidate for a job, than I was, just means I have to work that much harder to ensure I am the best choice. What gets me is "affirmative action", where those whom are most qualified are not brought on because they have to hire a minority class whom may be in the bottom third of scores.
    As to the rights/equality argument, I am one whom is tired of all these "movements". Too many focus on a specific agenda or cause, and condemn anyone who says so much as an honest word or question. To me, we should all ban together and just focus on the human movie t. All equal, regardless of sex, orientation, age, etc.

    Yep, how it goes. Make money, or make laws when things are popular buzzwords.
     
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  23. Dan Epstein

    Dan Epstein firstchoicepay.com (previously Payoneer)
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    It just sounds like a very long movie that lacks the richness the discussion in here has, like a Michael Bay movie basically.
     
  24. IsabellaSnow

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    It's easy to say this, but before there were movements which focus on unequal groups, middle class white males were able to remain in power and didn't exactly relinquish it willingly. It is usually people from that specific group that I hear saying we do not need movements. But I mean look at how long women were oppressed for before feminism started, and look at how far we have come in the past 100 odd years since the movement formed. So I absolutely believe we do need them, whether it's for race or gender. Because unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world where those in power will recognise that it is unfair and will step down.
    I do agree that it appears unfair if one person is more qualified for a job but they wanted to hire an ethnic or gender minority. But on the other hand, how will those people become qualified if they are never allowed a position? It is all very well to say "I am more qualified than x person" when you have been given more opportunities for higher positions at work, but that doesn't mean you are actually going to be better at the job, or harder working, or more personable. I have met many people who are qualified to the max but are actually awful at their jobs. At the end of the day, if you are white and male, you have lived with the privilege your entire life of being judged more favourably at job interviews, simply by your appearance. You will likely have been hired for jobs where a more qualified woman or someone from an ethnic minority were rejected yet never knew about it. It is easy to turn a blind eye when you are the beneficiary, and then get annoyed when you cease to be.
     
  25. ramblin

    ramblin Rocks your Socks

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    Haven't seen the movie, but my favorite Wonder Woman in real life is Jessie Graff. This run led to 2nd place in the LA regional finals and fourth in stage 1 nationals out of a field of around 95% men.



    Physique-wise, of course, this is what an incredibly dedicated woman ends up with when her job involves lifting every pound of her body all the time. I'd expect a warrior type to have a quite bit more padding over that muscle.
     
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  26. justjoinedtopost

    justjoinedtopost All your thread are belong to me.

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    Thoroughly enjoyed the first part of the movie, battle scenes, etc. Wonder Woman holding that shield up against a barrage of tracer rounds? Kick ass!

    Speaking from someone who was raised in a culture with an ugly history of oppression, however, I have to agree that the movie's only worth lies in it's entertainment value. It completely fails in the area of raising social consciousness, and even manages to wander into downright offensive territory.

    http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a9992873/wonder-woman-black-women-erasure/


    I don't know; perhaps I could enjoy this movie more if I was from the UK or Canada. Or, if I was a white female...

     
  27. ForceTen

    ForceTen Awesomesauce

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    I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I would rather see people come together and work to improve everyone's lives as a whole, rather than continuing to segregate based upon labels which are placed upon them. The continued fighting among people is distracting us from keeping an eye upon those whom are truly in power: Gov't and those whom help manipulate them.

    "White and male..." that is an extremely old and tiresome argument. There are plenty of white males whom have been mistreated by others throughout history, same as what you are saying for minorities and women. The Irish whom came to America in the 1800's were treated poorly, and not given jobs. What about Jewish men during WW2? Everyone likes to makes scapegoats out of the white male. But, what about other cultures where there are non, or very little? What about those whom are persecuted, assaulted, etc. there? Need to look at the broad spectrum, not just our own little bubble.

    Back to the job topic, how is it a strive towards equality, when people are given preferential points based upon the colour of their skin, their sex, or whatever protected special interest group they associate as? This has nothing to do with skills, training, etc. Only their specific demographics. Regardless of that, candidates become qualified based upon the training/schooling they take for that particular field, as well as work experience if it is for a more advanced position. If you have someone whom has no mechanical aptitude, why would they even apply for a mechanic's position if they can't tell the difference between a flat head screwdriver and a box end wrench?

    This has nothing to do with being a beneficiary by any means and complaining. It has everything to do with ensuring the most qualified person is hired for a job, regardless of whatever demographic they fall into. If I legitimately lose a job to a better candidate, regardless of if they are female, or different skin colour then me, so be it. As to if they are a better worker, that is something no one can predict 100% prior to actual work. Though, the interview process can help make a decision.

    Anyway, the discussion has wanted far off topic. Hopefully, it can get back to about the movie.
     
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  28. IsabellaSnow

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    I can agree with that!
    Just a quick point, I said middle class, white and male. There is a difference between the working class and the middle class. Also, not sure if every Jewish person would consider themselves as "white", so I'm not sure if you can really use that as a "see, white males have been harmed too!".
    As much as it would be really nice if everyone could band together for "equality", history has shown us that people look at their own problems. Therefore deconstructing these groups at this current point in time would likely lead to a standstill or even a reversal of hard work, rather than a reach towards equality.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. heybarkeep

    heybarkeep Rocks your Socks

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    324
    Saw this and The Mummy at an old school drive in this weekend. Was pretty neat. The Mummy was awful in my opinion but I enjoyed Wonder Woman way more than I thought I would. Would have preferred if they had Gal bulk up a little but see no harm with them going with the more average body type. Excited to see Justice League now but will keep my expectations in check.


    [​IMG]
     
  30. titsforpeace

    titsforpeace Member
    Cam Model

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    I loved everything about it, especially since I have a major crush on any brunette with rope. >: )

    Those last five minutes were just so incredibly sad! :(
     

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