Camgirl/-boy portrait project

Do you intend to take the pictures through screen caps of our rooms? Or are you planning on traveling to see the models in person?

Why not just log onto MFC or some other site and offer models compensation for posing? Art for art's sake and all, but cam models are professional models. Models get paid for non-sexual activities all the time. Heck, some models only get paid for non-sexual activity.

You might want to be more precise in explaining where you are planning to exhibit the photos. Not every cam model is comfortable with the whole world seeing them on cam at work. Lack of exposure away from cam sites isn't something most models mind.

Eclectic_Marxism said:

So I was wondering [...] if you have any other ideas on how to approach performers for this project?

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In terms of approaching performers, I'd be forthcoming with your name. Pretty sure Toledano was forthcoming with phone sex operators. Ditto diCorcia with strippers.

I'd also be sure to use a model release. Without consent, you're just a capper.

The CamgirlBRB project is interesting. Are you doing anything with it (beyond the tumblr)? You could make a really compelling edit with what you have.

I've made a strict rule as well not to pay anyone for personal projects. They're just models, not really people whose days I'm cutting into to ask them to do this favor for free.

You'll probably want to look elsewhere for girls to help you with this project. Most girls on ACF are very intelligent and business minded when it comes to our work and likely aren't going to go out of their way to help you for free. There's another gentleman on this forum who is doing an art project with camgirls but he isn't asking them to do anything out of the ordinary. He's just stopping by their room while they're online. If you did something similar that'd be one thing but basically you're wanting these girls to do a webcam show and pose for you. Honestly, your desire to not pay makes this come across like someone with a "frozen" fetish looking for a free show. Even painters who paint models generally pay their model unless it's a "hey best friend / gf, will you pose for me?"

Eclectic_Marxism said:

Dear Sevrin, I appreciate the input, but I've made it a strict rule of mine to not pay people for my personal projects. I don't want my portraits to be based on a financial transaction, but on my sincere interest in the person and their lifestyle.

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I'll let you in on a secret no one else in the entire world gives a shit about your personal projects. They are YOUR interests. So why the hell would anyone else waste their time helping you for free? (hint: they don't)

The first rule of being a professional photographer is pay your models, like a "professional." If you can't do that your just another freaking amateur who's spent too much money on camera equipment.

Wow, at first this sounded interesting, but your statement there just put you on the special bus. Seriously, go back to taking pictures of leaves. You don't have to pay them.

JerryBoBerry said:

I'll let you in on a secret no one else in the entire world gives a shit about your personal projects.

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What's with the hostility?

His work's fantastic. He might have difficulty finding a cam model who will pose for free, but I don't think that merits a barrage of personal attacks.

Alexandra Cole said:

JerryBoBerry said:

I'll let you in on a secret no one else in the entire world gives a shit about your personal projects.

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What's with the hostility?

His work's fantastic. He might have difficulty finding a cam model who will pose for free, but I don't think that merits a barrage of personal attacks.

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His work might be the best out there. But to not be willing to pay a model just because it's a personal project is silly. Borders on ludicrous. Definitely not professional.

Hell, even amateurs just starting out offer to send the model an 8X10 glossy of their photo in return for posing for them. They may not be able to financially compensate them but they still recognize the models value for posing and offer something. AMATEURS know better than that. I'm still shaking my head at his statement. Geez, that basic concept is pretty much in every single photography book out there.

I know plenty of professional photographers who don't pay when they work on personal projects.

I wouldn't recommend it in this case, but it's not unusual.

Alexandra Cole said:

I know plenty of professional photographers who don't pay when they work on personal projects.

I wouldn't recommend it in this case, but it's not unusual.

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You know professional photographers who ask people to pose for them for free with NO compensation whatsoever? Not even a free set of prints from the shoot or a copy of the digital negatives for the model to use however they want? No compensation at all?

ETA: The "hostility" stems from the fact that his "strict rule" not to pay for personal projects is insulting tot he models he is asking to work for free.

I do, yes. When the work's commissioned, they pay. When the work isn't commissioned, they don't pay. I also know photographers who always pay because models who work for free can be very demanding.

I think it's a given that if you think you should be paid for your time, you shouldn't pose for free. But some people do pose for free. Maybe they're interested in the project or they like his work or they dig having their picture taken or they want usage rights. I'm assuming he's looking for those people.

And his "strict policy" comment looks like it's about preserving a kind of integrity.

(That said, EMarxist, if it's about your sincere interest in the model, I think you'll have to pay. Otherwise, you'll be forced to narrow your options down so that it's less about your artistic decisions and more about who's willing to work for free, which, ironically, makes it more about money than it does about your work.)

Im confused, is the piece just a screenshot of a model sitting there, or are you taking the screenshot to use as a reference for a painting/drawing? Wouldnt the quality be all over the board?

I also bothered to come in and get to know the community for a while before making any requests of people, and even then, I made sure to lay all of my cards on the table up front, and be as transparent with my process as I can. I'm not saying he's not trustworthy or that his project wouldn't be worth doing, but when all we've got to go on from a person is nothing but the request itself, what I am saying is there currently not enough information about him one way or another. That does put him in a bit of hole from the outset.

The best strategy I can advise, especially when dealing with women who are used to getting paid, is to take the time to cultivate relationships with models before making the request. Hang out here on this forum, and participate, so that people can get used to seeing you around, and know that you're not a creep. Find models that you click with, and just hang with them for awhile. If you're not a total creep (and you sincerely don't strike me as one) then I've found that it's not hard to make the request. If you have samples of work that you can show, that would be helpful, as well. I'm willing to give the location of my portfolio to those who ask, and I have posted some quick drawings and painting progress pics to the Art thread, so that people know that I am an artist (or at least fancy myself as such) and not a con artist.

You have to understand that the hostility in this thread comes from the fact that people come in here on a weekly basis with a new scam that they try to run by these models. They're all pretty savvy women, and having to deal with guys who think they are clever enough to pull one over on them has, as you can imagine, made them a bit jaded to these sorts of proposals from strangers. However, being in the same position of wanting to work with these models, but having not much to compensate them with, I have found that they are giving people. The fact that they are already making a job of being in front of a camera, I have found, means that at least approaching them with a proposal to make them into artwork tends to go over pretty well. But I make sure to do everything possible to show them that I can be trusted with their likeness, and that I'm not after anything that they would be unwilling to give.

For what it's worth, I think you have a dandy idea, and I hope it does take off. I would love to follow the progress. It doesn't strike me as a project that necessarily needs a short time frame, so maybe just taking that time to make yourself known within the community is what it will take. Again, hang out here for awhile, and participate. Find some models who intrigue you, and visit their room. Prove that you are an artist who is interested in THEM, and I believe that they will return that interest. It happened for me, after all. These ladies have been nothing but generous and patient with me as I work on my own project. I don't see any reason why they couldn't be the same for you, as long as you do the work to let them know you're worth their time and attention.

:twocents-02cents:

My only issue with compensation would be if you get free models and then profit of the work (like if the interested magazines pay for it).
I know nothing about art or how that all works, but I think if you plan to sell it then some kind of compensation would be fair to the models.

For a random person who comes into my room asking me to pose for a screen shot, I will ask them for a 20-token tip on MFC, or 2 gold through streamate and get their promise that they don't make any money off of it without tipping me a bit of the profits.

For a person who has been a regular in my room contributing to the conversation long enough, asking if I can sit still for a few seconds so they can take a screen-shot, that is free, with the same request for a bit of the profits in the way of tips should they make anything off of it.

There is a third option. If you tell me what your birthday is now, when it next rolls around (assuming it's longer than a week away), you can pop into my room, remind me that you told me about your birthday and that I said you could have a free pose for a min or so.

Just be warned that I will have to have something off-cam moving to sit still for that minute. I literally can't sit still for long, so I tend to bounce on my bed.

LadyLuna said:

For a random person who comes into my room asking me to pose for a screen shot, I will ask them for a 20-token tip on MFC, or 2 gold through streamate and get their promise that they don't make any money off of it without tipping me a bit of the profits.

For a person who has been a regular in my room contributing to the conversation long enough, asking if I can sit still for a few seconds so they can take a screen-shot, that is free, with the same request for a bit of the profits in the way of tips should they make anything off of it.

There is a third option. If you tell me what your birthday is now, when it next rolls around (assuming it's longer than a week away), you can pop into my room, remind me that you told me about your birthday and that I said you could have a free pose for a min or so.

Just be warned that I will have to have something off-cam moving to sit still for that minute. I literally can't sit still for long, so I tend to bounce on my bed.

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I think if I understand correctly he won't be visiting us on our camsites, I think he wants us to Skype or something. He said not performing. Idk.

The copyright of any images broadcast via a cam site is property of the cam site.

I can't say that your mention of building a portfolio, as a West European, on the back of East Africans without compensating them makes me feel any warmer or fuzzier toward you.