Normalizing Pornography. Is it a good or bad thing?

[Marceline]

The landscape of online pornography has changed drastically within the last year. With the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns and the rise of OnlyFans, porn is now more mainstream than ever. Mainstream, high profile celebrities are making OnlyFans accounts. Your favorite YouTube creators are making OnlyFans accounts. Even girls you went to high school with are making OnlyFans accounts and advertising themselves on their personal social media accounts. There's been multiple headlines in the past year revolved around online porn. Anytime you browse through the popular homepage of Reddit you're bound to find a post discussing online sex workers/adult content creators.

I'm wondering, is this a good thing or a bad thing? By no means do I believe that porn is completely "normalized" in today's society, but it is a lot more mainstream than it ever has been before.

In my opinion, it's a double edged sword.

From a financial standpoint, I can see the benefits and the drawbacks. The more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to join the industry, oversaturating the market. However, the more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to be willing to actually pay for porn. I can say for sure that paying traffic has increased on the clip sites I post on. There's obviously a lot of other things factoring into that, but I do believe that the rise of OF has a part to play in it.

From a societal standpoint, I can also see the benefits and drawbacks.

One big drawback that I see to the normalization of porn is how it can possibly affect younger people joining the industry. With how much more mainstream sites like OnlyFans is becoming, you have people who are eagerly waiting until the moment they turn 18 so that they can start posting nude pictures online, thinking that they will become rich overnight without thinking of the long term consequences. Entering the online sex industry is something that shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, and it comes with some potential serious long term consequences, but younger or more naïve people may not realize these consequences and think it's okay because of porn becoming more mainstream. But then, they end up not making the amount of money they want to make and try to move on to a different career path, only to have their past hold them back because not as many people are accepting of sex workers/online adult creators as Twitter and the internet would like you to believe. It honestly makes me sad thinking about stuff like this.

However, I think that with how now when people think of online porn, they don't think of just unattainable super model porn stars, but people who they may know in their real life, it could soften the general public's view of sex workers and adult content creators, humanizing us and paving the way to a potentially more inclusive future. Whether that future be legislation that actually helps sex workers or more employers being okay with hiring former sex workers. Perhaps this one is just a pipe dream, since I don't see something like this happening in the near future, but maybe one day.

I could go on and on, but I want to know, what is your opinions on this? Do you think it's a good or bad thing to have porn more normalized in mainstream society? What do you think are the pros and cons?

 

[MarieElise]

I agree with you on the pros and cons.

My hope is that it leads to better porn honestly. It always saddens me that so many inexperienced men think they are learning about real sex, and what women (in general) like from shitty mainstream porn/ tube sites. That is very misrepresentative of real sex, and very for lack of a better word; fake.

I'm not sure what to think. It does really sadden me that so many young people are getting into it without thinking it through properly or realistically.

On the other hand, if people just accepted porn, were more open around it, and had less shame about it, maybe we'd all have even better sex lives? Idk maybe I'm living in an imaginary utopia where couples could watch porn together, and then have banging awesome sex afterwards. All this snooping on partners' computers and weird stuff, needs to stop. If someone thinks their partner is watching illegal porn that harms someone or snuff that's one thing. But a lot of the snoopers are just people who disagree with normal porn and don't want their partner watching it. That seems a bit on the psycho side to me, so if porn was less stigmatized, maybe that behavior would decrease? I guess I see that as a pro.

 

[Marceline]

My hope is that it leads to better porn honestly. It always saddens me that so many inexperienced men think they are learning about real sex, and what women (in general) like from shitty mainstream porn/ tube sites. That is very misrepresentative of real sex, and very for lack of a better word; fake.

Y’know, I never actually thought of this as something that could change with porn becoming more normalized. I know one of people’s biggest “issues” with mainstream studio porn is how it’s “so fake” and doesn’t accurately depict sex or women’s bodies and leads to inexperienced men having skewed perceptions on sexuality and women and even their own bodies. And to an extent, I understand how very glamorized, highly produced studio porn can totally lead to these warped perceptions and mess with people’s expectations of sex just like other forms of media messes with people’s perceptions of themselves. I definitely think access to more independently created porn can perhaps curb this problem a bit.

All this snooping on partners' computers and weird stuff, needs to stop. If someone thinks their partner is watching illegal porn that harms someone or snuff that's one thing. But a lot of the snoopers are just people who disagree with normal porn and don't want their partner watching it. That seems a bit on the psycho side to me, so if porn was less stigmatized, maybe that behavior would decrease? I guess I see that as a pro.

100% agree on this, but I’m not sure if this problem will ever totally go away. When I was younger (like 18 or so) I had a huge issue with anyone I was with watching porn. It had nothing to do with me thinking that porn was bad or because it was more stigmatized 10 years ago, but because I was insecure with my body and my sexuality and felt as though I was less attractive than the model my boyfriend was jerking off to. Not proud of this, but I snooped through one boyfriend’s stuff and got really upset when I found porn back then. It wasn’t until I became more confident in myself and who I am as a sexual being that I stopped caring about it. Hell, in my last relationship I was actively encouraging him to watch porn with me, haha. But, since the root of the problem has more to do with insecurity rather than the actual industry itself, I unfortunately don’t think that problem would go away if porn became less stigmatized or normalized. If anything, I would see it becoming more of a problem in certain relationships.

 

[MarieElise]

. When I was younger (like 18 or so) I had a huge issue with anyone I was with watching porn. It had nothing to do with me thinking that porn was bad or because it was more stigmatized 10 years ago, but because I was insecure with my body and my sexuality and felt as though I was less attractive than the model my boyfriend was jerking off to. Not proud of this, but I snooped through one boyfriend’s stuff and got really upset when I found porn back then. It wasn’t until I became more confident in myself and who I am as a sexual being that I stopped caring about it.

Very relatable. I used to do it because I wanted an excuse to break up with a dude I was bored of, but felt guilty admitting to myself that I was simply bored of the guy. So I went on a big porn snoop and tried to find something, so I could escape the dude's clutches. Lol, it was pretty twisted. I'm VERY embarrassed about it now.

It's weird how our minds and consciences work, and the motivations we can have, and where they can come from. I hope I am right and you are wrong about it increasing this kind of behavior. But, honestly, I think you are likely right on it. Because all these chicks, and some dudes, think there is this highly "personal" connection going on w webcam models. When there very, very rarely is. It's all in their minds.

I think if a chick is having a problem w her dude checking out models, they should simply hit up some of these ACF male models. There are a bunch of straight male models on CB, or maybe some of the female models, whatever floats their boat (s). Then they will understand from personal experience that it's really not that big of a deal .

 

[nightwish]

I would be a hypocrite saying i don't watch porn, I don't like porn or even i have no porn fantasies. But normalizing porn is a dangerous thing. Seeing these thousands of women and men showing their body on line and fill all holes, doing sexual actions that makes you frown, having intercourse while other people let them lead and say what to do? Where are the boundaries? Does money makes the world go round?
It doesn't bother me seeing two people make out in public bor does it bother me that people take place before a camera and show themselves, it's their choice.

It however does bother me that people get forced to do it, for the money or just because someone says it? Than it is not their choice. And as long as that exists you can't normalize porn, or better you may not normalize porn or people will get exploited.

 

[Marceline]

It however does bother me that people get forced to do it, for the money or just because someone says it? Than it is not their choice. And as long as that exists you can't normalize porn, or better you may not normalize porn or people will get exploited.

People who are forcing other people to perform sex acts on camera against their will are doing it whether porn is normalized or not. They are committing a very serious crime, namely trafficking/coercion. There's a ton of conflicting studies on whether or not decriminalizing sex work leads to less or more trafficking, and it's hard to tell exactly which studies to trust based on the very biased nature of these studies. I'm of the mindset that whenever you normalize/decriminalize a previously taboo or illegal industry, it actually curbs some of the more violent and dangerous aspects of it. Decriminalizing recreational use of drugs has been proven to work. Total legalization of abortion has been proven to actually lower abortion rates. Obviously, there's more to it than that, since along with decriminalizing it there's also more awareness brought to the topics and more help given to those who need it. But, still, I doubt that normalizing porn would lead to more instances of trafficking. If anything, I could see it lessening because of how saturated the online sex market would become with normal, every day people just looking to make money from the comfort of their own homes.

Also, a major flaw with this line of thinking is thinking that people within other industries aren't exploited or don't do their jobs solely because they need the income. Huge companies exploit workers all the time by paying them less than a livable wage to do back breaking labor. Even smaller companies do it. Hell, I'd go as far as to say most companies exploit their workers if you're going off the exact definition of exploitation, i.e treating someone unfairly so as to benefit off of their work. And, I'd say there's a looooot of people who do not enjoy their jobs, they just do it for the paycheck. That doesn't mean that it's not their choice. It's the same thing with any type of consensual sex work. The only difference is, some people have such a puritanical view when it comes to sexuality and they believe that anyone who doesn't have the same rigid "morals" as they do when it comes to sexuality and their own bodies either is being forced to do it or is a depraved degenerate, when really, some people just view it as any other job and don't buy into the whole "My body is a sacred temple which should only be viewed by my spouse because Jesus and society told me to believe that" nonsense.

But, I agree, there are people in absolutely terrible situations where they are being forced against their will to perform sexual acts and it is absolutely horrifying and tragic. I just don't agree that normalizing porn would increase the number of people in those situations.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Does money makes the world go round?

Under capitalism, it sure does.

As for the rest of your post: There is plenty of porn out there that depicts acts beyond what you are describing, that's a very narrow slice of what adult performers are putting out there. This says a lot more about what you are seeking out and your own hangups than it does about porn as a whole and the impacts it may have.

This

It however does bother me that people get forced to do it, for the money or just because someone says it? Than it is not their choice. And as long as that exists you can't normalize porn, or better you may not normalize porn or people will get exploited.

is indeed a problem. How do we combat it? Well, one pretty sure way is by cutting out middlemen where you can as a consumer, and supporting performers as directly as possible when paying for content or whatever else.

 

[MarlieJane]

Porn has been made since before the camera existed so I think it's beyond time to quit adding shame around our natural desires.
I love the shifting the industry is doing towards ppl taking control of their own content!

 

[Deleted member 57737]

I'm all in for normalizing porn in a way that it should be viewed as real work and be respected as one of the many things you can do to make a living. I hope that this means that sex workers will one day have the same support and caring networks behind them as medical workers or do for example.

What I find very problematic is starlets, musicians etc. start their Onlyfans account without thinking about their fan base. The music industry very much targets younger people from 12-16 years old. The sexualisation of these kids is definitely a thing these days if you look at the lyrics or the videos. Example: In the subway I saw 3 girls about 13-14 watching a music video. The slightly older girl (maybe 15) said something like "...you can only dance like this when you not a virgin anymore"

I didn't like that at all. If those kids find out that their star has an Onlyfans account they will find a way to get there.

 

[nightwish]

Yesterday, I talked to a friend, who is a lawyer, about normalizing porn. He told me that would be a very good thing. WOW, i said, are you kidding me? But what he told me gave me a great insight:
Normalizing porn means that we "incorporate" porn in our daily social live so it becomes normal. And when a thing gets normal it gets accepted. Once things get accepted you can build a kind of protection around it so it won't be abused. This is exactly what the porn industry needs! A legal protection mechanism that gives people in this line of work a grip on what is going on and prevents them from being exploited. It will be possible to group, take actions, build even a union to defend themself. So what I posted earlier: telling it is dangerous, isn't in fact not dangerous at all it's just a good thing.
On the other side, when porn gets normalized, there won't be that many people anymore that are interested, because you can see it everywhere, and you eventually think, oh what the hack, another one, I don't care anymore.

What I find very problematic is starlets, musicians etc. start their Onlyfans account without thinking about their fan base. The music industry very much targets younger people from 12-16 years old. The sexualisation of these kids is definitely a thing these days if you look at the lyrics or the videos. Example: In the subway I saw 3 girls about 13-14 watching a music video. The slightly older girl (maybe 15) said something like "...you can only dance like this when you not a virgin anymore"

The process-speed of normalizing will only increase with this kind of actions. The more money , fame, power is involved, the faster it will grow. What it will do with our kids, I agree is somehow troublefull. But than again, when it gets out of the dark, people will be able to talk about it and this will reach our kids also.

From a financial standpoint, I can see the benefits and the drawbacks. The more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to join the industry, oversaturating the market.

Like in economics, when the market gets saturated, prices will go down and the profits will go down accordingly. Eventually the people who thinks they can get ritch overnite by joining the pornindustry will disappear.

these are just some insights, probably there are many more. It's always nice to reflect on things like these, just to know what can happen and how to cope with it.

 

[thealixlynx]

The landscape of online pornography has changed drastically within the last year. With the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns and the rise of OnlyFans, porn is now more mainstream than ever. Mainstream, high profile celebrities are making OnlyFans accounts. Your favorite YouTube creators are making OnlyFans accounts. Even girls you went to high school with are making OnlyFans accounts and advertising themselves on their personal social media accounts. There's been multiple headlines in the past year revolved around online porn. Anytime you browse through the popular homepage of Reddit you're bound to find a post discussing online sex workers/adult content creators.

I'm wondering, is this a good thing or a bad thing? By no means do I believe that porn is completely "normalized" in today's society, but it is a lot more mainstream than it ever has been before.

In my opinion, it's a double edged sword.

From a financial standpoint, I can see the benefits and the drawbacks. The more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to join the industry, oversaturating the market. However, the more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to be willing to actually pay for porn. I can say for sure that paying traffic has increased on the clip sites I post on. There's obviously a lot of other things factoring into that, but I do believe that the rise of OF has a part to play in it.

From a societal standpoint, I can also see the benefits and drawbacks.

One big drawback that I see to the normalization of porn is how it can possibly affect younger people joining the industry. With how much more mainstream sites like OnlyFans is becoming, you have people who are eagerly waiting until the moment they turn 18 so that they can start posting nude pictures online, thinking that they will become rich overnight without thinking of the long term consequences. Entering the online sex industry is something that shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, and it comes with some potential serious long term consequences, but younger or more naïve people may not realize these consequences and think it's okay because of porn becoming more mainstream. But then, they end up not making the amount of money they want to make and try to move on to a different career path, only to have their past hold them back because not as many people are accepting of sex workers/online adult creators as Twitter and the internet would like you to believe. It honestly makes me sad thinking about stuff like this.

However, I think that with how now when people think of online porn, they don't think of just unattainable super model porn stars, but people who they may know in their real life, it could soften the general public's view of sex workers and adult content creators, humanizing us and paving the way to a potentially more inclusive future. Whether that future be legislation that actually helps sex workers or more employers being okay with hiring former sex workers. Perhaps this one is just a pipe dream, since I don't see something like this happening in the near future, but maybe one day.

I could go on and on, but I want to know, what is your opinions on this? Do you think it's a good or bad thing to have porn more normalized in mainstream society? What do you think are the pros and cons?

LOVE this conversation.

I see both sides here, too.

I DO think it's a good thing that porn is being "normalized." Frankly, sex is natural. It's a part of life. I mean, hell, it's the reason humanity literally exists. No big deal. I also think here in America society is ASS BACKWARDS with porn. Like, we all know everyone watches it. Few things piss me off more than seeing, for example, old white male politicians condemning porn stars and the porn industry publicly when I know for a fact they have also hired some of my colleagues if you know what I mean. So it's hypocritical as FUCK. I also think a lot of "PORN IS BAD AND WRONG AND SEX WORK IS EVIL" stems from the patriarchal framework our society was built on (AKA it's old news. Ancient, crusty old news. lol).

I also think a lot of that mentality comes from people having mega misconceptions about adult entertainers as a whole. I also get it. When adult entertainers make news, a lot of the time it's for a big scandal. People think porn stars are on set, having orgies, doing blow, etc. which is absofuckinglutely not true at all. So I think XXX being more "accepted" and having more XXX entertainers speaking their truth of what the business is REALLY like...and living "normal" lives...it just shows people that XXX entertainers are human like the rest of the world. We just have non-traditional jobs, is all.

Plus, let's get real. We KNOW video games are entertainment, not real life. Same with movies. TV shows. Adult work IS entertainment. People need to take responsibility for themselves and understand that porn is entertainment. And, obviously...do whatever the fuck you want with your own body. That puritanical bullshit comes from religion. Which is FINE, but it's NOT fine when people try to say that their beliefs on that is THE truth. Like, live your life and let others do the same.

That said, on the flip side...something that I make a big effort to do is speak the TRUTH. I think the best thing performers can do is just talk about on social media and be frank. Stuff like, ya know, Onlyfans and camming won't make you rich unless you put in the work. Such is true for any career field. But I also don't think the responsiibility should fully be ours, either. All in all, I think having porn be more "acceptable" can only help normalize sex in our culture, so I see more good than bad.

To end this...I also don't believe in "oversaturation" of any market, ever. We EACH have our own unique qualities and characteristics that make us, US. Nobody on this planet will ever exist with the same exact personality, interests, etc. as you right this very moment. So just being yourself and offering that to the world....in the case of a performer, that's stuff like XXX vids, cool cam shows, giving fans a cool experience with their favorite performer (aka you), etc....that's enough. May sound a bit "woo woo" but I do believe we live in an abundant universe and that there is more than enough for all to go around

 

[SMuser69]

Sex Work shouldn't be shamed but at the same time it should be a 'choice/option' but the more 'normal' you make it the harder for the person behind you. We're seeing Sex Work activities leaving their normal locations and bleeding out into mainstream uncontrolled. We're seeing 'success' formulas involving increasing sexualization entering other formats where it previously wasn't required or even relevant.

It's 'normal' to sell sexualization and intimacy on camsites like MFC, CB, SM but what about how it's bleeding onto platforms like youtube, twitch, tiktok? Sex is a easy sell because the demand is hardwired into the instinct of every human that has or will ever exist but when what happens when a woman can't find success on twitch/tittok/IG from gaming/singing/talent alone? We have post in here were models want to operate only doing lewd/tease on the camsites and the best answers are usually 'well good luck with that'.

tl;dr When choices become the 'normal' they are no longer choices for the people after you.

 

[Deleted member 55529]

I support normalizing all sorts of sex work and decriminalizing. Sex it's just an act.

 

[MissVaga]

It's something we all do so ...it's already normal. I find the taboo so odd.

 

[InAweOfCB]

The landscape of online pornography has changed drastically within the last year. With the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns and the rise of OnlyFans, porn is now more mainstream than ever. Mainstream, high profile celebrities are making OnlyFans accounts. Your favorite YouTube creators are making OnlyFans accounts. Even girls you went to high school with are making OnlyFans accounts and advertising themselves on their personal social media accounts. There's been multiple headlines in the past year revolved around online porn. Anytime you browse through the popular homepage of Reddit you're bound to find a post discussing online sex workers/adult content creators.

I'm wondering, is this a good thing or a bad thing? By no means do I believe that porn is completely "normalized" in today's society, but it is a lot more mainstream than it ever has been before.

In my opinion, it's a double edged sword.

From a financial standpoint, I can see the benefits and the drawbacks. The more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to join the industry, oversaturating the market. However, the more mainstream and normalized porn becomes, the more people are going to be willing to actually pay for porn. I can say for sure that paying traffic has increased on the clip sites I post on. There's obviously a lot of other things factoring into that, but I do believe that the rise of OF has a part to play in it.

From a societal standpoint, I can also see the benefits and drawbacks.

One big drawback that I see to the normalization of porn is how it can possibly affect younger people joining the industry. With how much more mainstream sites like OnlyFans is becoming, you have people who are eagerly waiting until the moment they turn 18 so that they can start posting nude pictures online, thinking that they will become rich overnight without thinking of the long term consequences. Entering the online sex industry is something that shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt, and it comes with some potential serious long term consequences, but younger or more naïve people may not realize these consequences and think it's okay because of porn becoming more mainstream. But then, they end up not making the amount of money they want to make and try to move on to a different career path, only to have their past hold them back because not as many people are accepting of sex workers/online adult creators as Twitter and the internet would like you to believe. It honestly makes me sad thinking about stuff like this.

However, I think that with how now when people think of online porn, they don't think of just unattainable super model porn stars, but people who they may know in their real life, it could soften the general public's view of sex workers and adult content creators, humanizing us and paving the way to a potentially more inclusive future. Whether that future be legislation that actually helps sex workers or more employers being okay with hiring former sex workers. Perhaps this one is just a pipe dream, since I don't see something like this happening in the near future, but maybe one day.

I could go on and on, but I want to know, what is your opinions on this? Do you think it's a good or bad thing to have porn more normalized in mainstream society? What do you think are the pros and cons?

I love your in-depth thought about all of this.


Obviously one's individual perspective is key to the answers.


Though I think you've ignored the seeming reality that in 2021, young people presently "waiting until the moment they turn 18"... have already been "conditioned" by high school life to lay everything all OUT THERE online... and to absorb any and all related consequences as if they were arrows to the abdomen.


(I just read some of your final paragraphs even more closely... and I still love your thinking)


MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE EXPECTATION about what you label the normalization of porn... is that because the human variety on Chaturbate is greater in one place than perhaps in any previously known spot known or created by humans... that young women (especially) will evolve to arrive at CB (on that 18th birthday, if you must...)... and quickly recognize that with SO many women here, with such variety to their naked forms... the only seeming spot to occupy (that isn't already occupied by another appearance)... is the completely natural look with which they arrived on that magic 18th birthday.


Now we still have a long way to go... for I saw over the past month that one of my favorite naturally buxom CB models got a (further) boob job.

I can't even put myself in the shoes of sooooooooooooooo many models who must look around at (the 'competition' ) and let themselves believe that they need to have HER tits, HER, pouty lips, HER cute little shorts, HER tapestry on the wall behind, HER color of lip gloss, HER prowess with a hula hoop, and HER batch of kittens in the background, (etc. heavy on the ETC )


(*side note: I used to perceive, about online chatrooms, that the allure of {mystery women} on the other side of a computer... {whose anonymity afforded them the freedom to talk in detail about sex, etc.} was in many ways better than "Miss December"... because you never get to know that Miss December actually takes out the garbage, along with doing other mundane-but-necessary things)

I can't say enough about how so many of us want to be reminded that these ARE "real humans" (and not air-brushed ideals straight out of 1986).


The normalization of webcamming and sex work will very much help in this path toward a different appreciation of all humanity.)



And I think it will eventually show that men are drawn in large part TO 'natural uniqueness' ... AND that men are still at their core inclined to want to find one or very few avenues toward which to invest themselves... (instead of the old belief that was "spreading their seed")

Chaturbate clearly shows that people don't leap up and leave particular rooms at the moment when somebody with bigger tits begins camming.


If you could factor out things like momentum-on-Chaturbate... giant numbers of followers... the negative impact of not interacting well in English... and the mechanics of the Chaturbate ranking of various models on the menu page...


what would be left of the Chaturbate experiment... would look very much like "randomness". (Meaning in brief, that the menu page would NOT then begin with the largest tits on page one, row one, and the tiniest tits on page 129, row nine)


So I say bring on the normalization of sex work !

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

but when what happens when a woman can't find success on twitch/tittok/IG from gaming/singing/talent alone?

Women already can't find success with talent alone because men treat us like we are only worth something if we are sexualized or belong to a man. Lol

That's not new

 

[Marceline]

MY ABSOLUTE FAVORITE EXPECTATION about what you label the normalization of porn... is that because the human variety on Chaturbate is greater in one place than perhaps in any previously known spot known or created by humans... that young women (especially) will evolve to arrive at CB (on that 18th birthday, if you must...)... and quickly recognize that with SO many women here, with such variety to their naked forms... the only seeming spot to occupy (that isn't already occupied by another appearance)... is the completely natural look with which they arrived on that magic 18th birthday.

You may have gotten my two paragraphs mixed up together.

I do believe that the normalization of porn will lead to more people entering the industry as soon as they turn 18. What kind of sparked this whole thread was a post I was reading on Reddit (along with a lot of others since there's been a lot of posts on the popular page in recent months about OnlyFans, PornHub and sex work in general) about Bhad Bhabie creating an OnlyFans account right after she turned 18 and reading a lot of the comments there. And while I suppose seeing models of all shapes and sizes can lead to younger models being more comfortable in their skin, I don't think that would be necessarily a side effect of porn becoming normalized. Simply because, while there's certainly a lot of successful women within this industry with all different body types and styles, and there's no standard for how a model should look in order to make money and be successful, there's still a lot of unattainable beauty standards in other forms of media that can make young women (or really, women of any age) insecure with their looks and their bodies.

Take Instagram for example. There's a lot of insanely popular Instagram personalities, let's say the Kardashian/Jenners, who excessively photoshop their images or use heavy filters to blur out their skin and cover any perceived imperfections. Regardless of how far cosmetic surgery has come (and I'm certainly not knocking anyone who gets cosmetic procedures), the looks of some of these models in their heavily edited images is literally impossible to obtain no matter how much surgery you get, working out you do or skin regimens you try. But, not everyone realizes that, especially younger people. So, even with porn becoming more mainstream, body insecurity will still be an issue and people will still be getting cosmetic procedures. Not that I see getting surgery or having any sort of procedure to feel happier in your own skin as a bad thing. Whether cosmetically enhanced or not, bodies are beautiful and as far as the adult industry goes, no matter what you look like, someone is going to find you hot and want to pay to jerk off to you.

When I was talking about people humanizing sex workers, I meant the general public. Look back at maybe ten or so years ago, although you don't even really need to go back that far. When most people heard the term "sex worker" or thought about someone in the adult/sex industry, they generally either thought of full service sex workers and prostitutes who had to work on the streets or tan, blonde, big tiddy, super model-esque porn stars like Jenna Jameson. But now, with how popular cam sites/clip sites/subscription sites, especially OnlyFans, has become in the last year or so, there's more people than ever who are joining the industry and being open about it. So, instead of viewing sex workers like they did before, now they see people they know, are friends with, went to high school with and date and it helps humanize us more in the eyes of the general public.

 

[Lelo1]

Some times it seems like Normalizing is a dirty word. Like if some one said they wanted to 'Normalize' sex. It might imply that sex isn't 'normal'. But sex is very normal. And to suggest otherwise is barbaric. Treating sex identity, sexuality as taboo, can do a lot of harm. If you look at say the Greeks or the romans, they were every open about these things. Like they had murals, statues depicting sex, bath houses, orgies, extra.

 

[InAweOfCB]

You may have gotten my two paragraphs mixed up together.

I do believe that the normalization of porn will lead to more people entering the industry as soon as they turn 18. What kind of sparked this whole thread was a post I was reading on Reddit (along with a lot of others since there's been a lot of posts on the popular page in recent months about OnlyFans, PornHub and sex work in general) about Bhad Bhabie creating an OnlyFans account right after she turned 18 and reading a lot of the comments there. And while I suppose seeing models of all shapes and sizes can lead to younger models being more comfortable in their skin, I don't think that would be necessarily a side effect of porn becoming normalized. Simply because, while there's certainly a lot of successful women within this industry with all different body types and styles, and there's no standard for how a model should look in order to make money and be successful, there's still a lot of unattainable beauty standards in other forms of media that can make young women (or really, women of any age) insecure with their looks and their bodies.

Take Instagram for example. There's a lot of insanely popular Instagram personalities, let's say the Kardashian/Jenners, who excessively photoshop their images or use heavy filters to blur out their skin and cover any perceived imperfections. Regardless of how far cosmetic surgery has come (and I'm certainly not knocking anyone who gets cosmetic procedures), the looks of some of these models in their heavily edited images is literally impossible to obtain no matter how much surgery you get, working out you do or skin regimens you try. But, not everyone realizes that, especially younger people. So, even with porn becoming more mainstream, body insecurity will still be an issue and people will still be getting cosmetic procedures. Not that I see getting surgery or having any sort of procedure to feel happier in your own skin as a bad thing. Whether cosmetically enhanced or not, bodies are beautiful and as far as the adult industry goes, no matter what you look like, someone is going to find you hot and want to pay to jerk off to you.

When I was talking about people humanizing sex workers, I meant the general public. Look back at maybe ten or so years ago, although you don't even really need to go back that far. When most people heard the term "sex worker" or thought about someone in the adult/sex industry, they generally either thought of full service sex workers and prostitutes who had to work on the streets or tan, blonde, big tiddy, super model-esque porn stars like Jenna Jameson. But now, with how popular cam sites/clip sites/subscription sites, especially OnlyFans, has become in the last year or so, there's more people than ever who are joining the industry and being open about it. So, instead of viewing sex workers like they did before, now they see people they know, are friends with, went to high school with and date and it helps humanize us more in the eyes of the general public.

I'm a tad lost regarding my mixing two paragraphs together. (the alternative for this sort of online forum is to respond to every iota of every sentence written by another).

( I certainly didn't see anything amiss with your stances and expectations)


Now on this new posted response, I would suggest that we should step BACK from that analysis of (young females trying to attain the physical human looks of others)... and consider young women in ... Middle School and beyond... and how THEY so often strive to have all of the nice things that THE OTHERS have, particularly fashion accessories and the like).

It can't hurt to (later) be in a world where all of those accessories and clothes are (off)... and where each arrives literally in her own skin (and where personal wealth has a reduced effect on who makes it, and who doesn't), where the wise promote their finest NATURAL features and everyone is blessed with the means to stand-out at least just a bit, from others. (with that, we've whittled away the clothing on the rack, the accessories that mom and dad may, or may not be able to afford, and even clothing borrowed from a sister).

It's way too easy for you to suggest "people will still be getting cosmetic procedures".

What we can hope for realistically, is that the number of cosmetic procedures per 10,000 young women, will be REDUCED over a long-ish period of time given new emphasis on one's OWN individual natural/naked uniqueness.

Human psychology will certainly aid in this because the men viewing online webcams are not like the boys in middle school, who were stuck in your environment all semester even though the proclaimed every morning not to like YOUR BARRETTES, or your nose. Those men are off watching some other hottie with the right kind of barrettes.


As to OnlyFans... while I agree that those presently immersed beneath the umbrella of sex workers are suddenly and rather newly inundated with millions of women touting OnlyFans accounts, the average person on the street barely has a clue about OnlyFans or what it is. So I think that aspect of the revolution is going rather slowly in the mainstream. And anything whose progress charts chiefly "The last year or so" will at some point need to reconcile its viability without the big assist from the pandemic.


I suspect that on all counts it will be a slow EVolution and not a revolution... but I'm very hopeful that sheer numbers will help to alter tired, old standards that have perhaps caused young people of a certain age range to have to survive something of a minefield while attempting to get from puberty to age 25 without being socially swallowed by their surroundings. It is an odd world where you spend so much of your school years trying to "fit in" while in these days of extremely heavy webcam usage, the trick has become to "stand out" in some way.

 

[Smores]

The landscape of online pornography has changed drastically within the last year. With the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns and the rise of OnlyFans, porn is now more mainstream than ever. Mainstream, high profile celebrities are making OnlyFans accounts. Your favorite YouTube creators are making OnlyFans accounts. Even girls you went to high school with are making OnlyFans accounts and advertising themselves on their personal social media accounts. There's been multiple headlines in the past year revolved around online porn. Anytime you browse through the popular homepage of Reddit you're bound to find a post discussing online sex workers/adult content creators.

I'm wondering, is this a good thing or a bad thing? By no means do I believe that porn is completely "normalized" in today's society, but it is a lot more mainstream than it ever has been before.

When you ask is porn more normalized today than before, I have to ask "for whom is it more normalized?" We can consider individuals, groups, and institutions in society.

For individuals, no question porn has become very mainstream. And overall I think that is a great thing. Couples and partners can discuss fantasies openly without repercussions, and many types of sex have become more normalized. With few exceptions, consenting adults can pursue many types of sexual interactions. There is also the start of some kind of sexual rights being developed for groups like trans people, although sadly that does not yet extend to basic rights like the ability to sell your own body for sexual services.

For groups, I am thinking about things like religious institutions. And here I think the landscape changed entirely and the battle is mostly over. Going back a decade, it was the "moral majority" and other religious groups who were fighting against porn. You do not hear their voices any more, and that is mostly about not having a political base. People enjoy having sexual freedom and stopped listening to these groups, in large enough numbers for them to develop any political power.

For institutions, this is where I feel things have gotten worse instead of better. In the early days of porn, financial institutions were mostly amoral and simply cared about whether the card owner authorized the charge. Now things have become very twisted and negative. The US government has realized that it can violate all of our constitutional rights by passing laws that threaten industry instead of individuals. So, for example, the FOSTA / SESTA laws set up absurd rules and standards, and if those are violated the government threatens non-complying corporations with legal action against the individual managers of the corporation. So corporations react by shutting down sex related activities. PayPal will not allow sex workers to use their service. VISA and Mastercard shut down payment processors to sex workers that rely on their charge cards to spend money. Social media sites have all kinds of twisted rules either prohibiting or limiting sexual interactions between users.

All of these anti-sex actions by corporations are music to government's ears. FOSTA and SESTA were supposed to protect exploitation of underage individuals, but that is obviously just a cover story. In reality these are anti-sex laws, and they are targeting legal adult sex workers. Rather than conveying real rights to sex workers, these laws strip sex workers of basic rights to participate in the financial industry, while intimidating every company that might try to support sex workers.

So it is hard for me to be optimistic overall. Individuals accept porn and sexual variation and fantasy like never before. But government has never been more Orwellian and controlling, and the financial services and social media industries are their perfect partners in censoring personal freedom and choice.

 

[Highlander884]

Well my thoughts in regards to webcaming and onlyfans is that im glad they exists in that i feel they are safer forms of porn then girls working for porn sites. Yes there are still dodgy studios and yes there are still asshole boyfriends that might talk their gf's into webcam/onlyfans as well as blackmailers etc etc, but I do feel that there are more girls exploiting themselves rather than being exploited unlike the rest of the porn industry.

I mean with the major porn sites, the owners make more money than the models do and many of them seemed to not get hired after a few months in the industry, plus roughness in sex scenes, also the more famous (misogynist themed) porn sites have investments in major porn tube sites and have their footage be more available in public and on front pages. I mean footage of girls getting fucked is being watched by millions for free. While with webcam yes there are many people watching for free and yes footage of them getting uploaded but many of the more popular webcam girls seem to be making more money than those appearing on porn sites and footage is less popular than the major porn sites (with footage from almost 20 years ago still being popular) and less chance of family and friends finding out.

Like i said in this sense girls in general have more control over what they do and their income.

On the other hand, I am concerned with the rise of onlyfans and webcaming that people (like with showbiz) think it's easy money. Onlyfans has broken into pop culture and have seen how much some people have made and think they too can make a decent living for not much work. But then ofc discover that it's only the minority (again like with showbiz) that make (by western standards) middle class + income from the job, that it is hard work to be and remain popular and by this point have already exposed themselves, perhaps had a untrustworthy friend tell people about what they did etc etc and like with say a tattoo sometimes people regret doing something after they have gotten a bit older.

I do still very much hate the way people treat women who choose to work in the adult industry. And i do wish in eastern europe/south america there were more options to make a reasonable living and breaking out of poverty and well aware girls are more likely to get named and shamed these days then they did 20 years ago. But i do still feel that there are more women who can make a better living and in more control then how things once were.

 

[Smores]

On the other hand, I am concerned with the rise of onlyfans and webcaming that people (like with showbiz) think it's easy money. Onlyfans has broken into pop culture and have seen how much some people have made and think they too can make a decent living for not much work. But then ofc discover that it's only the minority (again like with showbiz) that make (by western standards) middle class + income from the job, that it is hard work to be and remain popular and by this point have already exposed themselves, perhaps had a untrustworthy friend tell people about what they did etc etc and like with say a tattoo sometimes people regret doing something after they have gotten a bit older.

I do still very much hate the way people treat women who choose to work in the adult industry. And i do wish in eastern europe/south america there were more options to make a reasonable living and breaking out of poverty and well aware girls are more likely to get named and shamed these days then they did 20 years ago. But i do still feel that there are more women who can make a better living and in more control then how things once were.

Regarding OnlyFans and sex work in general: sure, new workers rarely realize their image is being recorded forever and could come back to haunt them. I wish sex work sites would be required by law to disclose all of this to new workers so that they could be more aware of risks. They would also have an option to wear a disguise. But I do not think this is an argument against sex work. This is more like a problem with lack of disclosure and general awareness. And maybe there need to be some laws around those issues to protect sex workers.

A real problem with sex work in general is the false perception that this is easy money and anyone can do this to make a living. The truth is that this is a business with no barrier to entry. More and more people enter the business and create more and more competition. Against the backdrop of "free porn" on sites like Pornhub and "free shows" on sites like CB, any person entering the sex business has her work cut out for her. It is not that it is impossible to make a living this way. The truth is more like this is one of the hardest possible ways to make money. It is like the restaurant business. There is always lots of competition and it is hard to do much more than break even on your time.

But, if you can perform in the top 5%, you can make good money and have enormous flexibility and creativity in your work.

If you want to think about a world 30 years in the future, could you imagine a place where everyone has an OnlyFans? When you are thinking of dating someone, you check out her OnlyFans and she checks out yours. And all of that would be in a social climate where it is simply not a big deal, because everyone has a sexuality and it is far better to get a taste of someone else to understand if this is someone who is even remotely sexually compatible with you, before you commit to dating. If that is the direction things are going, the problems with competition in sex work are just going to get worse and worse over time.

 

[LeftistLibbie]

I love this thread, and there are some really awesome perspectives in it! I don't want to parrot anyone, so here are my thoughts on the matter that might be a little different than what's been said before:

There's a lot of focus on "as sex work becomes more normalized, people will do it more, and then they'll realize it's not a get-rich-quick scheme and it might come back to haunt them." But if sex work becomes more normalized, I think it could actually help those issues.

For example, as sex work becomes more of something a lot of people have done, a lot of those people will be there to say, "Hey, this is a job just like every other job. You need to put in the work. You need to make sure it's right for you. You're gonna get out of it what you put in, and you need to be a certain type of person to make it work for you." If we normalize actually talking about sex work, then the problems with it (and the solutions for those problems) will be more in the mainstream as well, instead of being hidden and talked about in hushed whispers. If girls search up "how to be an OnlyFans model," there will be more and more info saying, "here's how you can tell if this is right for you. Here are the risks and benefits. Here's what you can expect."

And on the topic of it coming back to bite you... Well, if we normalize sex work as just another job that people do, if we normalize sex as something not shameful, then less people will be willing to brand you with a scarlet letter for it. At least, that's my hope. It'll be more like, "oh, that's Jessica, she used to have an OF, but now she's in accounting. Yeah, she used to track her sales and everything when she was a model, and it really gave her some great job experience!" Hell, maybe in the distant future, people can even put sex work on their resumes! "When I was an independent model, I learned a lot about marketing and social media management, so you should hire me at your firm."

I know that's a far-off hope, but I think it's not completely baseless. We'd have to push back a LOT against the institutions who want to eradicate us, but nothing is impossible. Maybe in a few decades, so many people will have done sex work that it's just like, "eh, yeah, there are pics of her butthole out there, but damn, she does a great job managing this library, doesn't she?" I think we'll see the effects of it soon enough with how many people have turned to it in this pandemic alone. I mean, if a ton of the workforce has done sex work, then that's a ton of the workforce for other jobs that employers NEED to function who they'd have to disqualify based on them doing a little sex work here and there. And employers need employees. They need to make money. They'll have to eventually come to terms with the fact that some people they might want to employ have done it. And if we make "porn" less of a dirty word, people will hopefully become less scandalized about the mere thought of it, therefore it'll be less of a scandal when it comes out that Judy in HR used to do phone sex.

I dunno. Maybe this is too optimistic. But I like to think positive about it. Fully prepared to be proven wrong, but I just thought I'd throw my little two cents in there.

 

[opphs]

Porn has been made since before the camera existed

Sorry, what???

 

[schruti]

Sorry, what???

Did you never see porn novels written hundreds of years ago? The Kama Sutra, more than 2000 years old? Greek images, even older, showing all variations of sex?

Modern infrastructure just improves distribution.