Does MFC own your private shows?

[Jupiter551]

I got to wondering, after seeing so many 'copyright MFC' watermarks, and knowing that MFC does have the power to issue takedown notices (reserved I think for people depicted in or who own a work I think?) - do they really legally own any recordings of your stream? Specifically - do they own the recordings they make of you (private shows) that you probably acknowledge somewhere in sign-up terms, and in any case at least know about?

Further along that line of thought...I know Streamate records some gold shows and posts them around tube sites as a form of marketing, and some of those MFC affiliate ads we've talked about previously really clearly depict multiple girls on cam without their consent (and MFC doesn't intercede), and I've even seen MFC ads ages ago on a site we've discussed here abbreviated as 'cgu', as little teaser MFC logos etc before clearly bootlegged camgirl video streams.

So what can MFC do with videos it owns and how long does it own them for? Forever? Could they say, sell the private archives (THOUSANDS of them) to a 3rd party website as content? Could Leo start up a site where members pay a monthly fee to watch past private shows? Right now it seems unlikely because MFC is apparently doing well but I think we all know there's a lot companies and people will do in the pursuit of profit. If the site was eclipsed by some new camsite (it happens, esp in ecommerce) the only real assets he might have left on his hands are a hell of a lot of previously unseen recordings of some of the hottest women on the internet.

It seems unreasonable that they should have ownership of potentially hundreds of your private shows, and the legal right to sell or broadcast them as they see fit, forever.

 

[rexcode]

While I don't know the exact terms, I'd be very surprised if the model agreement did not grant MFC at least a non-exclusive permanent royalty-free right to use them as they see fit. For example, without such an agreement in place they'd be unable to legally offer screencaps from these privates in the private gallery, as they currently do. FWIW, almost every social media site has similar terms and conditions, and usually the license that you've granted when you signed up doesn't ever expire, even if you cancel your account.

 

[Evvie]

I got to wondering, after seeing so many 'copyright MFC' watermarks, and knowing that MFC does have the power to issue takedown notices (reserved I think for people depicted in or who own a work I think?) - do they really legally own any recordings of your stream? Specifically - do they own the recordings they make of you (private shows) that you probably acknowledge somewhere in sign-up terms, and in any case at least know about?

Yes. All models acknowledge and agree to this when they sign their contracts.

So what can MFC do with videos it owns and how long does it own them for? Forever? Could they say, sell the private archives (THOUSANDS of them) to a 3rd party website as content? Could Leo start up a site where members pay a monthly fee to watch past private shows? Right now it seems unlikely because MFC is apparently doing well but I think we all know there's a lot companies and people will do in the pursuit of profit. If the site was eclipsed by some new camsite (it happens, esp in ecommerce) the only real assets he might have left on his hands are a hell of a lot of previously unseen recordings of some of the hottest women on the internet.

It seems unreasonable that they should have ownership of potentially hundreds of your private shows, and the legal right to sell or broadcast them as they see fit, forever.

I believe that everything you describe could potentially happen. Specifically, I believe the words they used in the contract were "forever" and "throughout the known universe".

But, also remember the potential repercussions of this. As we have witnessed here on this forum, it is very difficult to launch a successful cam site. While MFC will very likely not be around forever, it is going to be around for a very long time. And while they are still making their money primarily from live models, I feel that they may end up shooting themselves in the foot if they ever decide to start selling that content. I imagine a vast majority of their profits come from a small minority of models, and those models are going to be what people want to see - so is the risk of all those models quitting and moving to another site (and taking all their fans) worth it?

Models should be fully aware of what may be done with their content when they join these sites. While I feel the reality of what you are describing is a definite possibility, if it was a good idea for camsites to do it, they would have already done it.

 

[Jupiter551]

While I don't know the exact terms, I'd be very surprised if the model agreement did not grant MFC at least a non-exclusive permanent royalty-free right to use them as they see fit. For example, without such an agreement in place they'd be unable to legally offer screencaps from these privates in the private gallery, as they currently do. FWIW, almost every social media site has similar terms and conditions, and usually the license that you've granted when you signed up doesn't ever expire, even if you cancel your account.

Yes of course, but social media doesn't have the scope or kind of content that MFC does some models alone would have thousands upon thousands of private show archives. Many of them would no longer even work in camming. It almost seems like a no-brainer that at some point MFC is going to decide to use this content somehow.

I agree Evvie that for the forseeable future MFC doesn't look like it's going anywhere and I doubt they would start doing this now as it's not in their best interests long term, but have no doubt that if they can they would if they (or Leo) began to hit financial trouble.

 

[Nordling]

I envision a situation where one or more of the thousands of models on MFC becomes famous in a non-adult way...like politics, movies, authorship--whatever, and some entity like Hustler or Penthouse offers MFC millions for the rights to certain pictures that are now protected from general distribution.

 

[Evvie]

While I don't know the exact terms, I'd be very surprised if the model agreement did not grant MFC at least a non-exclusive permanent royalty-free right to use them as they see fit. For example, without such an agreement in place they'd be unable to legally offer screencaps from these privates in the private gallery, as they currently do. FWIW, almost every social media site has similar terms and conditions, and usually the license that you've granted when you signed up doesn't ever expire, even if you cancel your account.

Yes of course, but social media doesn't have the scope or kind of content that MFC does some models alone would have thousands upon thousands of private show archives. Many of them would no longer even work in camming. It almost seems like a no-brainer that at some point MFC is going to decide to use this content somehow.

I agree Evvie that for the forseeable future MFC doesn't look like it's going anywhere and I doubt they would start doing this now as it's not in their best interests long term, but have no doubt that if they can they would if they (or Leo) began to hit financial trouble.

I'm totally on board with you there, Jup. But let's also think of some other considerations:

A shitload of MFC privates are not going to be resellable. Let's just say MFC has 1,000,000 privates on archive (totes made that number up). I would wager around 250,000 of them are going to be asexual shows where the member is just chatting with the model about whatever comes up.

The MFC archives are just recordings of live broadcasts. Many models do not have an HD webcam. Many models have horrible settings that make their feeds almost un-watchable. If you want a picture larger than 320px wide, it's going to be pixelated. A large number of privates will be super weird, catering to obscure fetishes (like cheese on boobs or cookies on feet). A huge number of them are going to be like two minutes and not worth selling at all. Even if part of a private is commercially viable, who is going to edit them down? What happens if the model is having a personal conversation with the member the entire time she's doing something sexy? What if the private actually just kind of sucks? How many privates can a single employee watch, categorize, edit, and render in one day?

I believe the amount of very high-quality, long, resellable privates that MFC has in store, while obviously a large number, is not going to be as much as we might think. And they might not be as valuable as we might think, considering that thousands of people every day are producing pornographic content intended to be sold to the general public.

 

[Jupiter551]

Yep I spose so...but there are models who only ever get nude in long true privates (which costs around $7/min for the member) so for the chance to finally see those shows in exchange for a monthly membership I wouldn't be surprised to see some guys shell out $30/month or whatever

I envision a situation where one or more of the thousands of models on MFC becomes famous in a non-adult way...like politics, movies, authorship--whatever, and some entity like Hustler or Penthouse offers MFC millions for the rights to certain pictures that are now protected from general distribution.

Yes or even some girls that go on to do porn and become famous that way, I imagine there would be a market to see their first shows all fresh faced and just starting etc

 

[LadyLuna]

The relevant portion of the actual contract:

13. MODEL RELEASE. As a condition of MODEL using MFC software and Websites, MODEL certifies the following "Release", written in the first-person as would be spoken and sworn by MODEL:

13.1 "I allow MFC to use my Performances, stage name, likeness, persona, voice, pictures, chat, video, audio, and anything else associated with my interaction with MFC (collectively my “Appearance”) in any way, throughout the universe, in perpetuity, and without limitation. I grant and assign to MFC all rights, title, interest and copyrights associated with my Appearance. I agree that MFC may edit my Appearance in any way and I agree that MFC has no obligation to use my Appearance. I agree that the rights hereby granted to MFC also extend to MFC's subsidiaries, successors, licensees, and assignees."

13.2 "I hereby release and discharge MFC and its subsidiaries, successors, assignees, and licensees from any and all claims, demands or cause of action that I may have, whether for libel, Copyright, violation of my right of privacy or publicity, or any other matter arising out of in any manner connected with the use of my Appearance or the exercise of the rights granted herein. I hereby verify that all statements, warranties, and other information given by me are true and accurate, and I agree to be legally responsible for any claims arising from such statements and warranties. I acknowledge and agree that this Release, agreement, or contract shall not be subject to the terms of any union or guild agreement and that no sums will be due to me in connection with the use or reuse of my Appearance. I understand that MFC is proceeding upon the terms set forth herein, and I may not revoke this Release at any time."

13.3 "I am eighteen (18) years of age or older. I am of sound mind and body. I am not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I am acting of my own free will and I do not believe that I am violating any moral standards of my community. I fully understand the contents of this contract and I am legally able to execute this contract."

(evvie, if you check out the model admin, under documents way up at the top, you can get to the contract. ^_^ )