Violet October said:
Lena Heady made it that much worse by having previously posted a picture that suggested the end to the Oberyn versus Mountain fight. She definitely got her trollololols with this one.
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Game of Thrones: Season Quatro
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Lena Heady made it that much worse by having previously posted a picture that suggested the end to the Oberyn versus Mountain fight. She definitely got her trollololols with this one.
JerryBoBerry said:
I actually agree with you about spoilers for the books. I just meant that there were some people who weren't sure just how graphic HBO was willing to go. Seems like a silly concern given that it's HBO, but Heady's picture showed just how awful it was going to be.
eyeteach said:
Well to try to answer without spoiling anything too specific. Bran and the old dude in the tree have a lot in common. The red witch and Jon's story lines will be connected next season.
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Nordling said:
Um, no, that's not what I said at all...? That's like the exact opposite of my feelings because I basically think Tyrion killing Shae was like the lowest point of blatant misogyny in this series and folks who go out of their way to villify Shae and justify violence against her kinda seem like scarily irrational impotent man-children. "Wah I'm rich and unattractive and this sex worker WHO I HIRED TO LOVE ME isn't sufficiently convincing about her love for me guess I'll murder her now poor meeeeee."
missrosexox said:
You mean, "Wah I'm rich and this sex worker I hired and fell in love with lied in a legal proceeding in such a way that it helped cause me to be sentenced to death, then went and had sex with my father."
lol really? You don't think it was a revenge killing? She lied and basically sentenced him to death even after he had set up her leaving. He wanted her to have a good life.missrosexox said:
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Shaun__ said:
We already know that Tywin and Cersei conspired to kill anyone who DIDN'T agree to testify against Tyrion, but I guess it's more convenient to forget about that and like romanticize her betrayal cuz love hurtz n womenz iz bitches waah? Also I don't see what's so spectacularly shocking about a woman who fucks for a living, like, continuing to fuck for a living. That whole twist was reeeeeally heavy-handed and tedious to me.
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PunkInDrublic said:
Sure, that's possible, but I really think that's like a depressingly single-minded way to look at that whole story arc. Also to be clear, I'm not sitting over here rallying like Go Team Shae the Saint Down with Tyrion the Monsterrrrr, because I understand that they didn't miraculously arrive in this situation by their own volition... George R.R. Martin wrote this plot arc, and I think it's a weak one. Shae's motivations are never actually explained and they don't actually matter because the only reason she even exists in the first place is for Tyrion to grow as an individual and then hit rock bottom and then be forced to grow away from his daddy. And of course he has to work up to that by killing the whore for doing whorish things cuz that's the only way to restore his manhood. Like, how much more predictable could that climax have been?
missrosexox said:
I think she loved him, and felt betrayed when he told her to leave the city. That is why she testified against him,not any fear for her life. Tyrion only found her looking for his father, he was not wondering the castle looking for her or anything. He then snapped in a moment of absolute betrayal of everything he thought he knew, as his father had basically stolen another person he loved from him, just as he had with his first wife. People often do stupid things in real life, and the way it was written is reasonably possible considering the circumstances.
haha oh man Your delusional and bitter view of the story arc isn't depressingly single minded? Men are awful, women are always right, blah blah.missrosexox said:
Nordling
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I wasn't commenting on what you said, just on the sad end of two lovers, and yeah, kind of weak... for one thing, I was surprised she didn't understand (or did she?) that he was trying to send her away to save her life. I have never thought of her as Tyrion's "whore." I thought their love was genuine, and she betrayed him for reasons that aren't clear. She was helping to kill him because she thought he dumped her? Kind of an over-reaction. Now, yeah, I'd rather he hadn't killed her and simply plugged his dad on the shitter--of course his sister would made more sense to blow his rage at. Also, I don't think any of the people in the series are exactly moral giants, but that's part of what royal intrigues are all about.missrosexox said:
I guess it could have nothing to do with revenge or betrayal tho, Tyrion is just a big ol misogynist. Maybe next season will focus more on him treating women badly and less on him trying to save them.
Sorry the text is a bit hard to read.
Spoiler: joke from S04E10
Spoiler: joke from S04E10
missrosexox said:
Well, if Shae wasn't in Dad's bed her chances of survival would have been higher. Because he loved her and believed she loved him it would have been very hard to make the adjustment to her having moved on to his father, his sense of betrayal would have been overwhelming. He was in a very dark mood when he goes looking for dad and killing Shae was a second's effort for him that involved very little thought - in the book at least, I've not seen the series yet. Its a dark world and she was just unlucky.
With the Shae thing in the book it doesn't seem as harsh. Tyrion isn't nearly as kind hearted in the books than the series and Shae in the books wasn't the same sparky, loving Shae we know from the series. She was manipulative and very much out for herself. She was hired for sex but instead convinced Tyrion she loved him. I think maybe she did care about him but it's hard to tell. In the books as I can remember she was always very interested in pretty things and gold. In the series she doesn't seem to give a shit about money which made the whole thing seem very out of character.
This is why after her blatently manipulating Tyrion and him giving her everything she ever asked for, when a better opportunity came along her not only sealing his death, but mocking him cruelly in the courtroom for things she had done and said on her own accord, it doesn't really seem that unreasonable that when he finds her in his fathers bed (the father that he had to go to great lengths to protect her from) he would be so furiously angry, enough to kill her.
This is why after her blatently manipulating Tyrion and him giving her everything she ever asked for, when a better opportunity came along her not only sealing his death, but mocking him cruelly in the courtroom for things she had done and said on her own accord, it doesn't really seem that unreasonable that when he finds her in his fathers bed (the father that he had to go to great lengths to protect her from) he would be so furiously angry, enough to kill her.
I'm kind of gutted that they missed out the whole Jaime revelation. Again Tyrions anger is understandable but it's a bit more cold killing than a murder of passion which is what happened in the book. I am guessing they're going to miss it out full stop, which makes me wonder if it's ever going to lead to anything in the books.
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In defense of David Benioff & D.B. Weiss (the writers of S04E09), I feel it's important to realize that the writers are not responsible for the behavior or misbehavior or their characters. Sure they create them and animate them--but immorality (in our views) of the characters do not reflect on the ethics of the writer. When a character behaves in a manner that seems different from what we expect, it adds to the richness of the story--it shows that humans are all less than perfect.
Were it otherwise, Stephan King would be in prison for life.
Were it otherwise, Stephan King would be in prison for life.
missrosexox said:
The fact that you "fuck for a living" doesn't mean that you have to be a horrible human being while at it. There is a moral choice on the matter. Perhaps you could simply decline having sex with the father of a man who loved you. Perhaps in your view, the fact that someone is a whore means that everything is game in exchange for coin: body AND soul.
Something that seems to have been overlooked in the whole "Why did Tyrion have to kill Shae?" debate is that as soon as Shae saw Tyrion standing there looking heartbroken, she picked up a knife in preparation for what she thought he was about to (but might not have been planning to) do. At that point, Tyrion tried to take the knife away and boom! they're both trying to kill each other. Heartbreak, betrayal, manipulation aside, they were ultimately both trying to preserve their own lives in that moment.
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..... I was pretty disappointed with this season. I felt like they deviated the most from the books this time around, and added a bunch of filler bullshit that I didn't understand the need for. Like WHYYYYYY did Bran's party need to be captured by the idiots who stayed behind at Craster's? The Night Watch deserters were supposed to be DEAD by then. In the books they were super dead long before Bran and his companions would have stumbled upon Craster's Keep. TBH there was no reason for them to be anywhere near Craster's! They went under the wall at the Nightfort, which I believe is pretty far west of Craster's place. They were traveling north, not east. Also wtf was up with Ghost being captured? That's just silliness.
No Coldhands, no Stoneheart, no confession from Jaime about Tysha. (If you've read the books you know that this is a HUGE plot point and extremely pivotal in galvanizing Tyrion's feelings about his family.) Without the confession about Tysha from Jaime there's no reason for Tyrion to hate Jaime. It just doesn't make sense! AAAAAAANNNNNDDDDD they left out my favorite part with Jon Snow. One of the most triumphant moments in the whole third book is left out completely. What really bothers me is, if they hadn't added all the weird filler with the dudes still at Craster's, there would have been ample time to set up the storyline of Jon's awesomeness. IT'S SO AWESOME. And they didn't include it. Because they chose to include nonsense that has no impact on the greater story of Westeros or Essos. I just don't get itttt!!!
So of course as soon as the series ended I went running back to my beloved books. They're so much better than the series, especially this last season. I hated this last season. They fucked it up real good in my opinion. =_=
No Coldhands, no Stoneheart, no confession from Jaime about Tysha. (If you've read the books you know that this is a HUGE plot point and extremely pivotal in galvanizing Tyrion's feelings about his family.) Without the confession about Tysha from Jaime there's no reason for Tyrion to hate Jaime. It just doesn't make sense! AAAAAAANNNNNDDDDD they left out my favorite part with Jon Snow. One of the most triumphant moments in the whole third book is left out completely. What really bothers me is, if they hadn't added all the weird filler with the dudes still at Craster's, there would have been ample time to set up the storyline of Jon's awesomeness. IT'S SO AWESOME. And they didn't include it. Because they chose to include nonsense that has no impact on the greater story of Westeros or Essos. I just don't get itttt!!!
So of course as soon as the series ended I went running back to my beloved books. They're so much better than the series, especially this last season. I hated this last season. They fucked it up real good in my opinion. =_=
It will never be the same as the books. The show has to be produced on video with actors, sets, and a budget. They have to creatively combine several things into one scene & skip past some characters. I would assume they used Crastor's because they already had the set, actors, etc... & needed to save more of the budget for something else. That scene did accomplish several other things. Showing how Bran didn't want to return to Jon. Establishing Jon as more of a hero to the common men of The Watch, & more of an enemy of some the older powers that be there. Killing off the deserter characters, and more.
))
I just discovered this, and had to share it here. I found it suitably hilarious.
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