How do you go about haters who despise sex workers for being "degenerate" and "anti-feminist"?

[GodILoveFruit]

Okay this is my first post, so feel free to correct me on anything you feel needs to be talked about for my thread.

I see lots of hate, worldwide, go directed towards sex workers, OnlyFans users, and others of the like for using sex appeal for a source of income. People claim that others who do such sex work "don't love themselves", are 'stupid", and shouldn't be admired or taken as a valid form of business. I also see people from the radical feminism crowd that think sex workers are "dumb" and "misguided" for doing sex work and embracing their sexuality in the process, which they believe is the enemy of feminism since "sex is for men".. Personally, I think that's bullshit. You guys are pretty cool, and smart, and you're all valid human beings. I think it's gross that people would dehumanize others for merely doing sex work. You guys are also making choices for your own lives, and that includes using sex appeal to earn some money. I think that's pretty brave and cool. So back to the question, how do y'all deal with harassers and all this smack talk about people who do your line of work? How would you respond to certain feminists who think what you do is "setting women back"?

I'm sorry if I sound stupid, I'll delete the thread if you don't like it.

 

[AudriTwo]

i really dont fucking care what others think about what i personally do with my vagina and tiddies. they aren't paying my bills or have any impact on my daily life. i tend to not pay attention to those types of people.

i do have problems when those people force their stupid puritan beliefs on others by influencing local, state, and federal laws and policies.

 

[thinkinboutit]

When issues related to the industry come up in the news, it can be disheartening to see how much disdain the average slob has for us.

But I remind myself

• I'm safe and comfortable
• I don't have to answer to someone else or do anything I don't want to
• don't have to work physical labour OR navigate office social hierarchy (done both, was miserable)
• set my own schedule
• have the MONEY and TIME to pursue the things I care about

Lots of people can't say that about their job.

The average person has NO IDEA how any of this works, either.

and the comments that we must have no self respect are....straight up untrue. I know how I feel
Its just crab-bucket mentality. Projection.


So fuck 'em

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Are they saying this to my work persona, or me irl? If they are mouthing off to my work accounts: Mostly not going to get any of my energy, unless I have something sassy to say back off the top of my head. But I know there's very little chance that anything I say to that type of critique is going to have any real impact, so I am not likely to waste my own time or let them waste it for me. If they say it here, I have been known to join a dogpile from time to time.

To me irl? Depends on my level of familiarity with them and what specifically they say, but I am more likely to respond/correct misinformation as ME and not Mollie. I am much more giving with my free time. I have been a loud feminist a fair bit longer than I've been a SW. Educating from within a movement is easier usually, I think. Calling in vs. calling out. If you bring the bullshit to me, I will correct it. There seems to be a much better chance of them being open to a new perspective when coming from me the person and not just the SW persona.

Just spouting bullshit on the topic out in the ether? I am not currently seeking out new opportunities to educate total strangers. I leave that to the folks who are better at it.



The important takeaway here, I think, is that: SWERFS are not feminists.

 

[yummybrownfox]

It's just funny to me how some of these Twitter/Reddit dudes laughing, slut-shaming, and talking shit about OnlyFans creators (They're calling the guys who pay for it "simps," calling us "bitches" and "whores" who need to get a real job, claiming we "have no respect for ourselves") are the same people who watch porn, and are probably the same dudes you see out in public hollering at women, harassing them with "AY, YO...MA! COME 'ERE...LEMME HOLLA AT'CHU FOR A MINUTE!" when on a mission to try to fuck every chick in the tri-state area Lmfao. But we are the "whores" with "low self-esteem" and "no respect for ourselves." But I bet they'd subscribe real quick if they happened to get a free voucher or something (The "I ain't payin' for pussy!" guys). Lmao.

 

[LeftistLibbie]

I'm a bit of a fighty person (if the inflammatory political profile style wasn't a dead giveaway), so I like to argue back when I see that shit. Am I gonna change that specific person's mind? Probably not. But can I pick holes in their logic in public so that everyone who reads it who's on the fence can see and make their own decisions? Sure can. I don't debate for the sake of changing my opponent's mind, I do it for any potential spectators. And myself, tbh. I get dopamine boosts from arguing online. It's why I chose to market myself as a leftist looking for conservatives to ruin. Sure, doing it for free on twitter isn't as great as doing it for money, but it's still pretty nice.

Am I fucked in the head? I think I might be fucked in the head.

 

[thinkinboutit]

Oh yeah, and its also not my job
not worth my time & energy
to get other peoples approval/make them like me

 

[Carmita Bonita]

I was just complaining about anti-sex work feminists the other day on twitter! Aside from bitching them out when I feel up to it (The last few days we've all been a bit frantic and snippy for obvious reasons so I'm more confrontational than usual) I remind myself that their views of us are not only false but way more telling about them as a person. Like you said, this whole fiasco of "no you must be unhappy and feel dirty being a filthy sex worker!" then claim to try and be helping has 0 logic. The divide IS very sad--I wish we could get beyond it for the sake of sex workers safety and rights but it's been made clear they prefer to speak over us while simultaneously dehumanizing us.

In the end they don't pay my bills and I love myself so they can stay fuming and be stuck in their own miserable puritanical lives.

 

[NotYou]

People claim that others who do such sex work "don't love themselves", are 'stupid", and shouldn't be admired or taken as a valid form of business.

To put it quite simply, these people are generally just stupid and/or very ignorant, so using any energy worrying about their opinion is just pointless.
I think so many people have stereotypes about sex workers and what it is, how they are, etc (I think they must think the women are all in bad places, drug addicts and god knows what else). So, as I already mentioned, these people who think this kind of thing are just dumb and ignorant.


I would always ignore them and never try argue with them or anything. The best thing to do is not waste an ounce of energy on them at all.

 

[bamdicted]

I wonder how much is out of envy. 'Here I am, I have spent years of my life getting a good education and working hard, and she just sits there in front of a camera getting money thrown at her with no effort or skill required.'

Not knowing how many different skill sets and how much effort is needed to succeed in your line of work.

I have nothing but admiration for your efforts, and how you handle yourselves.

 

[Richyrichy]

People throw hate up all the time.

I was moderating for a busy fast-moving chat room (6000+) when one guy Trolled me for being a 50+ guy modding a 20 yr cammer.

"Its not right... I'ts immoral" He was screaming in chat.


I was like... Errr mate my attention is on the abuse in the chat. Both my hands are on the keyboard dealing with the Trolls, haters, and greys plus bots. Now I have you giving me shout-outs.

I am trying to help keep the room positive so you guys can reach the goal and FAP off....

But of course, it adds oxygen to the debate. Once they have your attention. Off they go on a crusade...

There are no actual answers. You deal with it as it comes up. Some days you just report and silence. Sometimes you engage.

A few weeks later the cammer (who I thought was as hard as nails) read a grey comment that I missed and burst into tears.

"Here we go again.... Your room is so boring. All you do is dance. Show your tits. Repeat. You never show your pussy - SCAMMER"

She went off camera. And she was crying. For weeks she seemed immune to the abuse we were both getting. But one got through.


And finally by way of third example for the same room. We had to silence a hater and he came back as a grey. Saying she stinks....
He created the name of the cammer "nameofcammer_stinks"



The guy was silenced from the room (Not banned) So spent time setting up a grey account in her name and started to TROLL

Saying that she stunk. That she smells.

I mean.. How much energy is all this hate taking??

So yeah... Hate is Hate.

 

[Lilypod]

It doesn't bother me. To me, if a person creates an opinion about something, but refuses to hear/listen to anyone with information proving them otherwise... Well, then they can stay mad for all I care lol. What these people don't realize, is their hatred weighs so much heavier on them, than it does on us.

Here's the thing, I've been taken advantage of men before I started camming. Camming has really flipped the script for me because I only do what I'm comfortable with, and now men pay ME, instead of how my 20-year old self used to support bum-ass abusive ex-bfs

If someone else disagrees with us finding SW empowering, it doesn't bother me because they're looking at it from their value system. They haven't lived the same life as me so they may never see it from my perspective and besides that, they likely don't want to. They just want to be angry. So. Cool. Those people are entitled to their opinion, but I know from living it that they're just straight up wrong. So whatever, if they want to waste their energy on it, like... you do you! I'm having fun and being productive and it's really been nothing but positive for me.

Also, thinkinboutit is 100% on point as well:

When issues related to the industry come up in the news, it can be disheartening to see how much disdain the average slob has for us.

But I remind myself

• I'm safe and comfortable
• I don't have to answer to someone else or do anything I don't want to
• don't have to work physical labour OR navigate office social hierarchy (done both, was miserable)
• set my own schedule
• have the MONEY and TIME to pursue the things I care about

Lots of people can't say that about their job.

The average person has NO IDEA how any of this works, either.

and the comments that we must have no self respect are....straight up untrue. I know how I feel
Its just crab-bucket mentality. Projection.


So fuck 'em

 

[maskedsissyslutforyou]

I mod my own room and use the "room control" bot's that automagically prevents a number of words that I find offensive, triggers, and/or annoyes me. It seems to be pretty effective.

And you post above gave me a few more potential works to add to that list.

There is really no point in telling a given model basically "what your doing is not my think/kink - you suck because you don't do my think", but I have seen a lot of people that seem to believe someone cares what they think.

 

[schruti]

The guy was silenced from the room (Not banned) So spent time setting up a grey account in her name and started to TROLL

That's why somebody else already asked for a Ninja bot.

It allows authorized users to …
… Ninja ban users: They see their messages, but nobody else does.
… whisper to the broadcaster or to anybody else.
… send anonymous warnings in private notices.
… get whispered messages from the broadcaster.

I wrote that Ninja bot within a few hours because I already had written Tip3Dice with similar features plus much more than expected from an all in one app.

I often Ninja moderate in some of the rooms running my apps, and silently silencing a user can be extremely useful. If all works well and he does not run several accounts in the same room at the same time, he'll happily keep insulting while nobody reads his insults, and he won't see any need to create new accounts. Thus, everybody is happy.

The description of that bot is very short, and that is intended. Curious visitors should not read:

Hey, Moron! Yes, this bot is made for you. We fool you. While you think you keep insulting the model, in fact you only talk to yourself. We trust you are dumb enough never to find out, and thus you will never create a new account for trolling.

 

[MarieElise]

how do y'all deal with harassers and all this smack talk about people who do your line of work? How would you respond to certain feminists who think what you do is "setting women back"?

I cry... and I cry... and I cry...

Lol, just kidding. I don't give a fuck what people think. I admire parts of some people, but I know that every one of us can be stupid and hypocritical at times, so I just laugh. The only person who I may even consider taking those points seriously from would be someone who has never, in their whole adult life, used porn. And I really don't believe there are too many people who fall into that category. So again I just laugh and think "dense-headed hypocrites" in my head, and feel sorry for them I genuinely, truly really don't care what anyone who isn't in my inner circle thinks, about anything. And no one in my inner circle thinks like that. So I really DGAF. I don't bother entering into arguments (for the most part) with people like that, because I just don't have the time or motivation to. I do admire other people who try to educate or debate with them though, but I just see it more as a lost cause "let them think what they will, and have sand in their vaginas all they want" type deal.

If they have never been a sex worker themselves then wtf would they know anyway, you know?
It would just be another ego talking out their ass to me , for the sake of talking and being heard

 

[Mila_]

I have a litmus test for excellent minds which is.. to be able to entertain an idea you don't agree with. And similarly... to be able to separate a person from their actions or their beliefs. Two people who are capable of doing this pretty well are Russell Brand and Jordan Peterson. These two are in opposite sides of the political spectrum roughly speaking but they are both equally calm, receptive and engaging when they discuss highly heated topics with opponents (and fascinatingly enough.. they have a similar physiognomy) One of the things that this perspective allows for is great openness and the capacity to calibrate your own ideas so you get nuance.

So when someone tells me they disagree with what I do, even if they say it in a disrespectful way, I am more inclined to try and understand their perspective rather than be reactive. The second thing I do is I try not to bullshit myself about the content of my character. Sometimes I do good things, but sometimes I am also capable and willing to do shitty things. Sometimes I do it carelessly and sometimes I do it mindfully. When I catch myself doing something that is morally reprobable I ask myself if this is truly what I intend to do, and if the answer is "yes" (sometimes the benefit of doing something shitty far outweigh the consequences of being amoral in that instance) I try to integrate this shadow, however long, because it is better to accept the fact that your moral has holes in it than to pretend you are a saint and incapable of wrongdoing.

Camming then, right? Stripping for strangers online in exchange for money. I see several amoral things about it I am not blind to it. First there is the fact that we provide space for the dissolution of families. There are married men who instead of working on their failing marriage choose to go to camsites and develop feelings for camgirls which provide the escapism and connection some men are lacking in their marriage. If we weren't there this wouldn't be an option and then the consequences would be inevitable: some of these marriages would dissolve which is better than living a lie.. and other marriages would have to eventually work out their issues and reignite the passion that was lost. We are a buffer, we prevent things from happening. Do we make these men happier? I don't think so... we are more like opium I guess... temporal relief for a permanent problem. That's shitty. We are also visited by men who lack self control and who might spend all their savings and their children's inheritance in our rooms. Camming facilitates praying on the weak. It can be argued that this isn't our problem.. kind of like the drug debate.. is it the dealer's or the client's responsibility? In my opinion.. both. Clients are responsible for shooting heroin up their arm, but without the dealer they wouldn't have any heroin to shoot would they? Same with camming.. if we didn't provide this service John wouldn't have a place to piss his second mortgage away and Sam would have to actually talk to his wife. We are there and we make a living out of these situations which is indeed shitty. Perhaps it isn't full tar-like black liquid diarrhea type of shitty but let's say it's like a baby sized turd of a compact consistency and mild smell

The second moral problem is as camgirls we have an unfair advantage over the male sex. Normally we can breed and they can't and so they have to make up for that by providing, defending and protecting. Families are built on the basis of this complementarity. If we can breed and provide for ourselves and our children then we don't need men anymore. Man becomes irrelevant, relegated to the margins of society, relegated to "simping" to watching from the sidelines and fantasizing about having or being with a woman, which is exactly what we see more and more lately... all these guys with expendable income, no girlfriend, no kids... filling out their existential void and lack of purpose through videogames and porn. We contribute to this.

Personally? I see all of it, I accept it. I, as a camgirl contribute to some very shitty shit. I try to avoid being a total piece of shit by telling my members not to piss their mortgages away in my room and to always spend within their budget and within reason. But I am not blind to the fact that camming and sex work poses some very real ethical problems. However, the benefit to myself as a person far outweighs the stress I put on the structure of civilized society. meaning.. I don't care making a small dent in the carcass of a decaying civilization if it means I might save my own sorry ass. I already lived through communism and saved my own ass. The world as a concept and all the theoretical large social bodies can burn for all I care if I can save myself and those I care about from it. Thats my job and I accept it.

 

[Garygoldenballs]

I have a litmus test for excellent minds which is.. to be able to entertain an idea you don't agree with. And similarly... to be able to separate a person from their actions or their beliefs. Two people who are capable of doing this pretty well are Russell Brand and Jordan Peterson. These two are in opposite sides of the political spectrum roughly speaking but they are both equally calm, receptive and engaging when they discuss highly heated topics with opponents (and fascinatingly enough.. they have a similar physiognomy) One of the things that this perspective allows for is great openness and the capacity to calibrate your own ideas so you get nuance.

So when someone tells me they disagree with what I do, even if they say it in a disrespectful way, I am more inclined to try and understand their perspective rather than be reactive. The second thing I do is I try not to bullshit myself about the content of my character. Sometimes I do good things, but sometimes I am also capable and willing to do shitty things. Sometimes I do it carelessly and sometimes I do it mindfully. When I catch myself doing something that is morally reprobable I ask myself if this is truly what I intend to do, and if the answer is "yes" (sometimes the benefit of doing something shitty far outweigh the consequences of being amoral in that instance) I try to integrate this shadow, however long, because it is better to accept the fact that your moral has holes in it than to pretend you are a saint and incapable of wrongdoing.

Camming then, right? Stripping for strangers online in exchange for money. I see several amoral things about it I am not blind to it. First there is the fact that we provide space for the dissolution of families. There are married men who instead of working on their failing marriage choose to go to camsites and develop feelings for camgirls which provide the escapism and connection some men are lacking in their marriage. If we weren't there this wouldn't be an option and then the consequences would be inevitable: some of these marriages would dissolve which is better than living a lie.. and other marriages would have to eventually work out their issues and reignite the passion that was lost. We are a buffer, we prevent things from happening. Do we make these men happier? I don't think so... we are more like opium I guess... temporal relief for a permanent problem. That's shitty. We are also visited by men who lack self control and who might spend all their savings and their children's inheritance in our rooms. Camming facilitates praying on the weak. It can be argued that this isn't our problem.. kind of like the drug debate.. is it the dealer's or the client's responsibility? In my opinion.. both. Clients are responsible for shooting heroin up their arm, but without the dealer they wouldn't have any heroin to shoot would they? Same with camming.. if we didn't provide this service John wouldn't have a place to piss his second mortgage away and Sam would have to actually talk to his wife. We are there and we make a living out of these situations which is indeed shitty. Perhaps it isn't full tar-like black liquid diarrhea type of shitty but let's say it's like a baby sized turd of a compact consistency and mild smell

The second moral problem is as camgirls we have an unfair advantage over the male sex. Normally we can breed and they can't and so they have to make up for that by providing, defending and protecting. Families are built on the basis of this complementarity. If we can breed and provide for ourselves and our children then we don't need men anymore. Man becomes irrelevant, relegated to the margins of society, relegated to "simping" to watching from the sidelines and fantasizing about having or being with a woman, which is exactly what we see more and more lately... all these guys with expendable income, no girlfriend, no kids... filling out their existential void and lack of purpose through videogames and porn. We contribute to this.

Personally? I see all of it, I accept it. I, as a camgirl contribute to some very shitty shit. I try to avoid being a total piece of shit by telling my members not to piss their mortgages away in my room and to always spend within their budget and within reason. But I am not blind to the fact that camming and sex work poses some very real ethical problems. However, the benefit to myself as a person far outweighs the stress I put on the structure of civilized society. meaning.. I don't care making a small dent in the carcass of a decaying civilization if it means I might save my own sorry ass. I already lived through communism and saved my own ass. The world as a concept and all the theoretical large social bodies can burn for all I care if I can save myself and those I care about from it. Thats my job and I accept it.

based enlightened thesisposter

 

[GraysonDrake]

Okay this is my first post, so feel free to correct me on anything you feel needs to be talked about for my thread.

I see lots of hate, worldwide, go directed towards sex workers, OnlyFans users, and others of the like for using sex appeal for a source of income. People claim that others who do such sex work "don't love themselves", are 'stupid", and shouldn't be admired or taken as a valid form of business. I also see people from the radical feminism crowd that think sex workers are "dumb" and "misguided" for doing sex work and embracing their sexuality in the process, which they believe is the enemy of feminism since "sex is for men".. Personally, I think that's bullshit. You guys are pretty cool, and smart, and you're all valid human beings. I think it's gross that people would dehumanize others for merely doing sex work. You guys are also making choices for your own lives, and that includes using sex appeal to earn some money. I think that's pretty brave and cool. So back to the question, how do y'all deal with harassers and all this smack talk about people who do your line of work? How would you respond to certain feminists who think what you do is "setting women back"?

I'm sorry if I sound stupid, I'll delete the thread if you don't like it.

I lean into it and make memes.

 

[Violet Dawn]

I'm probably an asshole but

If it's my personal life I'll say something like "I get that you're too ugly to succeed at sex work, but that's just capitalism."

Or "Aren't you a virgin? You should be thanking them, bro."

I don't like people putting down any content creators that create entertainment for them. They wouldn't say that about a movie star or voice actor.

If it's professionally, I just block them. Because who needs that noise anyway?

 

[rockin_rod]

It's in human nature to fear what we don't understand. And for those that don't understand something, they often attack it.
The challenge is to turn around some people's perception that SW is shameful, because it just isn't.
Sex and sexuality is at the very core of our personalities. It's just buried deeper in some, and they need to let it out.

 

[Delroy]

It's just funny to me how some of these Twitter/Reddit dudes laughing, slut-shaming, and talking shit about OnlyFans creators (They're calling the guys who pay for it "simps," calling us "bitches" and "whores" who need to get a real job, claiming we "have no respect for ourselves") are the same people who watch porn

Strangely enough the heaviest consumers of erotica tend to consider women as equals.

The problem is with people who consume porn and then feel guilty about it. I suspect that those people get horny -> Consume erotica -> become guilty about using erotica -> blame women and SWs for getting them horny and "making them" do a bad thing.

 

[ElektraDivine]

The problem is with people who consume porn and then feel guilty about it. I suspect that those people get horny -> Consume erotica -> become guilty about using erotica -> blame women and SWs for getting them horny and "making them" do a bad thing.

I’m actually reading a book on sex work atm and the author (an ex sex worker) explains that this is the reason why we get so much shit from people. They feel shame for their own sexual preferences, and rather than deal with that themselves they just shift it onto us instead. It’s changed my perspective on these types for sure, it’s kinda funny when you realise it’s the way they feel about themselves and actually has nothing to do with us.

In case any SWs are interested in the book it’s called ‘thriving in sex work’ by Lola Davina. Highly recommend! Especially on audible, her voice is beautiful.

 

[AudriTwo]

In case any SWs are interested in the book it’s called ‘thriving in sex work’ by Lola Davina. Highly recommend! Especially on audible, her voice is beautiful.

this book is definitely a must-read for anyone in sexwork. it helped me so much when i was outed.

 

[GraysonDrake]

It's just funny to me how some of these Twitter/Reddit dudes laughing, slut-shaming, and talking shit about OnlyFans creators (They're calling the guys who pay for it "simps," calling us "bitches" and "whores" who need to get a real job, claiming we "have no respect for ourselves") are the same people who watch porn, and are probably the same dudes you see out in public hollering at women, harassing them with "AY, YO...MA! COME 'ERE...LEMME HOLLA AT'CHU FOR A MINUTE!" when on a mission to try to fuck every chick in the tri-state area Lmfao. But we are the "whores" with "low self-esteem" and "no respect for ourselves." But I bet they'd subscribe real quick if they happened to get a free voucher or something (The "I ain't payin' for pussy!" guys). Lmao.

lol I call those douchebags the Thot Police and lump SWERFs in with them. They're two sides of the same sociologically abusive coin.

On a deep intellectual level though I feel sorry for them, because both types of people don't really see sex as anything but a commodity for men, and what sort of life is that when you think that way? What sorts of bullshit do you tolerate and propagate and think is normal when you view sex that way? How the fuck do you have relationships for that matter?

I’m actually reading a book on sex work atm and the author (an ex sex worker) explains that this is the reason why we get so much shit from people. They feel shame for their own sexual preferences, and rather than deal with that themselves they just shift it onto us instead. It’s changed my perspective on these types for sure, it’s kinda funny when you realise it’s the way they feel about themselves and actually has nothing to do with us.

Yep, projection. I come from the mindset of sex being a normal wholesome part of everyday life so it's sickening to me to think about what the inside of their heads must look like.

In any case, I think the most important takeaway here is that people like this can't shame you without your consent. Shame only works if you care about the opinions of the people trying to shame you. That's why I self-identify as a degenerate, so they can't use it to hurt me. My values are in direct opposition to theirs and by their standards I qualify as one, so fuck it let them say what they want. I'm proud to not conform to their twisted version of morality.

So to the SWERFs I say:

The dregs of society are the ones who brewed the tea after all.