Models feedback needed, new service to promote rooms

[xtraffic]

Sorry for the long post!

I’ve spent the last 4 years working for a company that operates “tube sites” (PornTube.com, 4tube.com & Fux.com) serving upwards of 6 Million visitors/day.

In December 2013 I left the company and have put together a small team. We've built a service that integrates on content publishers (tubes), looks up model names and notifies users if they're online (currently checks MyFreeCams, Naked.com, Webcams.com, Streamate & LiveJasmin).

We built the service on the premise that some videos can rack up over 1 Million views in the first 24 and we hoped that we could push some of these users across to the models rooms (with an affiliate link).

From a technical perspective we're very proud of our achievement, we're currently processing over 10 million status requests a day, but unfortunately we have a REALLY low match on models tagged in the videos to models that are on the cams (we're getting about 800 clicks/day from tubes-> cam sites) and affiliate sales are close to non-existent.

All the guys have worked really hard on this concept and I was about to can it when I had one last idea. What if instead of trying to match cam models to videos, we matched the videos to the cam models? What if we worked with cam models that are already very successful it already to upload a portion of their videos to the tubes to promote themselves?

One of the guys we used to collaborate with built up a production company and he ONLY promoted his content through the tubes via the CPP programs. Within 8 months he was netting over 6 figures/month.

Here's my vision:

- Models create an account on our platform, input their profile urls on the different cam sites
- Models upload some of their videos once to our platform (can be shorter versions of longer videos).
- We automatically push their content across to ALL participating tubes via their Content Publishing Program
- We notify users on tubes whenever that model is online so that they click through to her room

We get a cut as affiliates of the cam sites and models get increased visibility/revenue as they build their fanbase and more users are pushed to their rooms.

We could even notify models via twitter/email/sms when their videos go live on the tubes so they can jump online (80-90% views happen in first 24 hours general).

TBH I have zero experience with the cam world and I probably should have started speaking sooner with the community to understand better how it operates and its needs. We have a strong technical team and I connections in the tube world, which for better or for worse is where a LOT of the traffic is these days.

I am looking for models that would be willing to share their experiences, insights, opinions (positive & negative). I am looking to create a platform that provides value for everyone involved. I strongly believe that this will only work if everyones interests are aligned.

Look forward to hearing from you, Rod.

skype/gmail: rodcul

 

[gonegirl4]

there are a few reasons that immediately come to mind as to why I, and likely other cam models, would be hesitant to participate. Firstly tube sites have a ridiculously high amount of traffic, but the people who frequent them are generally of the mindset that there's no need to pay for porn, so we'd likely see an increase in freeloaders but only a small percentage would have the potential to be switched into actual customers. Secondly, there are a lot of models who don't want the world to know what they do.. With the high traffic of tube sites your chances of being seen are much higher, so a lot of girls stay far away from them.
also, there are models who do upload some of their videos to tube sites for advertising already.. those who do usually link either to an affiliate link or straight to their twitter (on which they let everyone know the times they're online- standard practice in cam world.) Is the 'online now' icon the only difference you're offering?
most of the girls who don't do this either prefer the level of anonymity they currently enjoy, or hate the idea of giving out their work for free with no guarantee it'll make any money: cam girls aren't like porn stars, we don't get paid hundreds for every video on shoot day! we film, edit, promote, and hustle to earn money for the time we put into our work so the idea of putting it up on a tube site kind of stings a bit. In fact, a lot of girls spend a lot of hours dmca'ing videos put up on those sites! :twocents-02cents:

 

[xtraffic]

First off, thanks for taking the time to reply. We've also been working our butts off hustling this project from a technical perspective for months now and this is the first time I've interacted with the cam community so I'm very excited and grateful.

Also thanks for providing such objective feedback. I appreciate I'm touching on many sensitive subjects here but I honestly believe that if we all clearly state and understand each others needs we have the potential to find a winning solution for all.

Firstly tube sites have a ridiculously high amount of traffic, but the people who frequent them are generally of the mindset that there's no need to pay for porn, so we'd likely see an increase in freeloaders but only a small percentage would have the potential to be switched into actual customers.

I can see why this is the common perception. The flipside to that is tubes continue to be very profitable, and those dollars are coming from somewhere. Yes the spend/user on a cam site is much higher but if we think of this process like a traditional sales funnel we start off with higher volume, lower quality, and end up with low volume, high $$$. We're trying to raise the volume at the start of that funnel.

Secondly, there are a lot of models who don't want the world to know what they do..

This makes complete sense. As with most things in life it's about tradeoffs. I guess the early adopters of this service would be those models that are mode comfortable having a public persona, and once we collect the numbers then at least you guys can decide whether or not it's worth it to you (hopefully you'll stand a lot more to gain by going public).

Is the 'online now' icon the only difference you're offering?

The platform would be offering a few things:

• Automate uploading: upload once, we'll push out to all the tubes, and potentially watermark the videos also with models names. Collect the stats for views, etc.
• Push users from videos to cam rooms. Collect stats on which videos, which tubes, etc. Currently we show a notification with a link ABOVE the video and also a "status button" besides the models name. We’d love to experiment with an in video player text ad, or potentially even placing the video feed as an IM ad or in one of the next to video ads. Lots of ideas on this front.
• Notify models when their videos are popular/trending. This will allow them to maximise the number of clicks through to their rooms
• Notify users when their favourite models are online. They could create a profile on the platform and request notifications (email/twitter/sms).

These are the main points but there’s lots of other ideas we would love to explore.

In fact, a lot of girls spend a lot of hours dmca'ing videos put up on those sites!

Yup, I have some buddies that run one of the biggest DMCA takedown operations for the studios so I know very well how this all works. Maybe we could look at including this as a service to the models? Would you guys be interested in this?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply and sorry again for the long post!

 

[JuniperGin]

Honestly one of my biggest issues right off the bat is that instead of getting to use my own affiliate link on content I'm already posting for free, your affiliate link would be posted, netting you the extra money, while I handle all the extra freeloaders buggering up my room, as MissScarlet noted. I'm not sure the traffic to revenue ratio is worth it, while I could post content to a tube site myself with my affiliate link and get paid the extra money for both the new paying customers and the extra percentage from using my affiliate link.

So, in the instance that your affiliate link is provided, you get a LOT more earning potential out of that than the model might, for a lot less work. (Dealing with people saying 'tits bb' or demanding random things in front of a live audience is already enough work without all the people from tubesites probably assuming it's a free-for-all when we're live) I just see it being a really high volume of extra work for what may very well be very little payoff. And if they use your affiliate link, they could spend that money on another model instead of me, so again, a lot more earning potential for you than the model.

While it's true that tubesites are obviously profitable, I have to wonder how much of that is really paying traffic versus ad-revenue.

I can watermark my own videos, that's sort of an industry standard, so I'm not sure what benefit I'd get from someone else's watermark.

As for a DMCA service...maybe? Though if you're working on most any camsite they already send DMCAs for you.

These are just my opinions, but to other models it may very well be an attractive option.

 

[xtraffic]

Thanks for the feedback JuniperGin - I really do appreciate it and am only interested in finding a solution that works for everyone.

Honestly one of my biggest issues right off the bat is that instead of getting to use my own affiliate link on content I'm already posting for free, your affiliate link would be posted.

I figured this would be a contentious point, let me explain how things look from our end. We've invested in building out the platform, building our database of models/cam profiles and have operational expenses (servers & CDN for 10 Million requests a day is not cheap). We also need to cut the publisher into the deal to allow us to place our code on their site and right now the affiliate revenue has been less than $50 total but before we completely scrap the project I was hoping to test the idea out with some forward thinking models that area already performing well on MFC.

• We'd liason with the CPP manager for PornTube/4Tube/Fux and upload 5-10 videos per model
• I would e-mail you the scheduled times for the video releases
• We'd track how many people click/convert to your shows
• We could get the videos taken down at any time after the experiment

As for models uploading the videos, we're looking to automate this whole process. Having worked with CPP studios across the different tubes I know firsthand just how bad some of them are. The idea is to upload it ONCE and push it out to 10-20 tubes automatically.

As for the DMCA stuff I'm pretty sure the guys we work with could do a MUCH better job. They're currently have contracts with MANY of the big studios because they significantly outperformed them on file lockers, tubes, torrents, forums, google search results, etc.

Once again, thanks for the feedback. Would love to explore areas opportunity a little more. We have quite a few connections and the technical proficiency. We just need to figure out a collaborative model that works for all

 

[gonegirl4]

what I'm getting now is that you'll help models dmca videos of us that are put onto tube sites.. while asking models to upload 5-10 of their videos onto tube sites..

as Juniper pointed out in this thread https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=19840 you seem to be missing the fact that the majority of cam models don't want their videos up on these sites.

there totally are some models who don't mind the traffic that these sites offer, but these are not the models who would be requesting dmcas. Any model who welcomes the exposure from tube sites would watermark her videos already and likely wouldn't bother to have them taken down

 

[NoelleBright]

I definitely wouldn't do this.
NOT because of my videos being up on Tube sites (as a model on Streamate, this comes with the territory), but because you're basically asking me to do work for you, in order for you to make money that might never trickle down to me.

Say I upload a video to your website, and Joe clicks through to my camroom from your affiliate link after watching my teaser. He doesn't buy a show from me, but he buys a show from the girl two spots over from me. Now you get that affiliate money, and I see none of it despite him clicking through because of my video.

Now say I upload this teaser somewhere else, with my own affiliate link. Not only will I get paid for any money Joe spends on other models, but I get a gigantic cut of whatever he also decides to spend on me. Practically double what my normal cut is.

Where is the benefit for me? I would be much better suited spending the time spreading my own affiliate link.

 

[xtraffic]

Where is the benefit for me? I would be much better suited spending the time spreading my own affiliate link.

In theory, leveraging technology we should be able to:

• Drive many more users to your videos when you're online, leading to higher conversions
• Notify you when your video is trending to allow you to profit from all those eyeballs
• Uploading/scheduling content across many different tubes can be very time consuming and hard to do on a regular basis. We could potentially even sync through to a dropbox or similar reducing effort to a minimum

From what I'm seeing the main issue is the affiliate income, perhaps we need to review this decision internally and come up with a formula whereby it's split between the models also.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks once again for the overall tone of the thread, I know it's a touch subject and as a community you guys have been very helpful and generally awesome!

 

[NoelleBright]

Where is the benefit for me? I would be much better suited spending the time spreading my own affiliate link.

In theory, leveraging technology we should be able to:

• Drive many more users to your videos when you're online, leading to higher conversions
• Notify you when your video is trending to allow you to profit from all those eyeballs
• Uploading/scheduling content across many different tubes can be very time consuming and hard to do on a regular basis. We could potentially even sync through to a dropbox or similar reducing effort to a minimum

From what I'm seeing the main issue is the affiliate income, perhaps we need to review this decision internally and come up with a formula whereby it's split between the models also.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks once again for the overall tone of the thread, I know it's a touch subject and as a community you guys have been very helpful and generally awesome!

This isn't anything that Streamate doesn't already do though, it's part of how they advertise.
And knowing when my video is "trending" is useless. I've already got a room count built into my interface that shows me the exact number of registered & unregistered users currently viewing my feed so I'm already aware of how many eyeballs are on me.
The only difference you're bringing to me is that now I have to upload the video myself, and I'm not seeing much benefit.

If I could attach my own affiliate link, for sure I would do it. But you're really offering me nothing. Like I said, this is already exactly how Streamate advertises to begin with.

 

[xtraffic]

Thanks for your reply NoelleBright, I think I'm not explaining myself clearly enough, let me try again:

And knowing when my video is "trending" is useless. I've already got a room count built into my interface that shows me the exact number of registered & unregistered users currently viewing my feed so I'm already aware of how many eyeballs are on me.

The idea is that if you're video goes live on a tube you are aware so you can jump online and leverage that. Some videos get over 1 million views in the first 24h and generally 80-90% of the views on a video occur during that period, meaning there's a "narrow" window of opportunity for maximum exposure. We feel it's useful to receive that notification so you can maximise the number of people that will click through to your room.

The only difference you're bringing to me is that now I have to upload the video myself, and I'm not seeing much benefit.

If I could attach my own affiliate link, for sure I would do it. But you're really offering me nothing. Like I said, this is already exactly how Streamate advertises to begin with.

Streamate places an IM Live ad/popunder/banner with a random models feed. We believe that by notifying a user that the actual model from the video they are watching is MUCH more valuable and MUCH more likely to convert. We also notify them when a model from a video they've previously watched is online (for example: "Space_Barbie from the video "Hot Solo action" you watched 3 days ago is online, click here to watch!"). Again we feel this is much more valuable/useful/likely to convert than some random model feed.

The other thing that could be useful that popped up on this thread is that we may partner with a company specialised in DMCA takedowns (I know Streamate does some stuff in this area, but I'm pretty confident these guys could absolutely outperform). The goal here is to get to a point where the only videos available on tubes link back to your room and all other sources for the video (fileuploads, forums, torrents, etc.) get taken down. These guys are also really good at getting stuff removed from Google. Imagine typing your username into the search engine and those top 10 results are all stuff that point back to your profile, therefore increasing your chances to monetize?

Does this make more sense?

 

[Sansa]

Thanks for your reply NoelleBright, I think I'm not explaining myself clearly enough, let me try again:

And knowing when my video is "trending" is useless. I've already got a room count built into my interface that shows me the exact number of registered & unregistered users currently viewing my feed so I'm already aware of how many eyeballs are on me.

The idea is that if you're video goes live on a tube you are aware so you can jump online and leverage that. Some videos get over 1 million views in the first 24h and generally 80-90% of the views on a video occur during that period, meaning there's a "narrow" window of opportunity for maximum exposure. We feel it's useful to receive that notification so you can maximise the number of people that will click through to your room.

The only difference you're bringing to me is that now I have to upload the video myself, and I'm not seeing much benefit.

If I could attach my own affiliate link, for sure I would do it. But you're really offering me nothing. Like I said, this is already exactly how Streamate advertises to begin with.

Streamate places an IM Live ad/popunder/banner with a random models feed. We believe that by notifying a user that the actual model from the video they are watching is MUCH more valuable and MUCH more likely to convert. We also notify them when a model from a video they've previously watched is online (for example: "Space_Barbie from the video "Hot Solo action" you watched 3 days ago is online, click here to watch!"). Again we feel this is much more valuable/useful/likely to convert than some random model feed.

The other thing that could be useful that popped up on this thread is that we may partner with a company specialised in DMCA takedowns (I know Streamate does some stuff in this area, but I'm pretty confident these guys could absolutely outperform). The goal here is to get to a point where the only videos available on tubes link back to your room and all other sources for the video (fileuploads, forums, torrents, etc.) get taken down. These guys are also really good at getting stuff removed from Google. Imagine typing your username into the search engine and those top 10 results are all stuff that point back to your profile, therefore increasing your chances to monetize?

Does this make more sense?

Ohhhhhh so this is one of those things where we should be grateful to be paid in exposure. :roll:

 

[NoelleBright]

Thanks for your reply NoelleBright, I think I'm not explaining myself clearly enough, let me try again:

And knowing when my video is "trending" is useless. I've already got a room count built into my interface that shows me the exact number of registered & unregistered users currently viewing my feed so I'm already aware of how many eyeballs are on me.

The idea is that if you're video goes live on a tube you are aware so you can jump online and leverage that. Some videos get over 1 million views in the first 24h and generally 80-90% of the views on a video occur during that period, meaning there's a "narrow" window of opportunity for maximum exposure. We feel it's useful to receive that notification so you can maximise the number of people that will click through to your room.

The only difference you're bringing to me is that now I have to upload the video myself, and I'm not seeing much benefit.

If I could attach my own affiliate link, for sure I would do it. But you're really offering me nothing. Like I said, this is already exactly how Streamate advertises to begin with.

Streamate places an IM Live ad/popunder/banner with a random models feed. We believe that by notifying a user that the actual model from the video they are watching is MUCH more valuable and MUCH more likely to convert. We also notify them when a model from a video they've previously watched is online (for example: "Space_Barbie from the video "Hot Solo action" you watched 3 days ago is online, click here to watch!"). Again we feel this is much more valuable/useful/likely to convert than some random model feed.

The other thing that could be useful that popped up on this thread is that we may partner with a company specialised in DMCA takedowns (I know Streamate does some stuff in this area, but I'm pretty confident these guys could absolutely outperform). The goal here is to get to a point where the only videos available on tubes link back to your room and all other sources for the video (fileuploads, forums, torrents, etc.) get taken down. These guys are also really good at getting stuff removed from Google. Imagine typing your username into the search engine and those top 10 results are all stuff that point back to your profile, therefore increasing your chances to monetize?

Does this make more sense?

Now that you've better explained it, I can see where you're setting yourself apart.
However, as a camgirl with 3 years of experience I can say you're going to be hard pressed to find girls who will participate in this if it's not her very own affiliate link that is being used.

A lot of people come around trying to get a cut of the camgirl pie, and I don't exactly like giving that away any more than I have to. I would rather spend the time, bake it from scratch, and get the whole thing to myself if ya know what I'm saying.

 

[KayleePond]

I would be 100% down to give this a try if I could use my own affiliate links.

I feel models really need more gain/incentive to participate, especially as the first to try this. Without models involved, it doesn't really work, and we need a bit more back for our risk/effort to be willing to give this a try. Wouldn't it be worth it to let at least some models at the beginning of this project try it out with their links to try to get this off the ground and see how it works? If the traffic alone is significant enough, I would be game to do this, but I would need to see it in action first hand before I'm really convinced. I think some reassurance of benefits would be necessary.

I think there could be something cool here.

 

[NoelleBright]

I would be 100% down to give this a try if I could use my own affiliate links.

I feel models really need more gain/incentive to participate, especially as the first to try this. Without models involved, it doesn't really work, and we need a bit more back for our risk/effort to be willing to give this a try. Wouldn't it be worth it to let at least some models at the beginning of this project try it out with their links to try to get this off the ground and see how it works? If the traffic alone is significant enough, I would be game to do this, but I would need to see it in action first hand before I'm really convinced. I think some reassurance of benefits would be necessary.

I think there could be something cool here.

I agree.

My opinion (from a business standpoint, nobody kill me plz) is that you're not going to have any moderate-high earners jumping on this because there is no incentive for them. They're already doing well, why participate in something that might maybe earn them just a few more bucks? The gain to be had would be a drop in the bucket for them.
I already hit my goals, I already have good traffic, what else do you have to offer me?

The only performers who have something to gain are ones who have low traffic/low earnings, but how much will lower earning models net you in affiliate money anyway?
:confusion-shrug:

 

[AliciaLeigh]

Here is a very high level overview of the Requirements Gathering process: http://www.projectsmart.co.uk/requireme ... hering.php

Notice that Rule 1 for successful Requirements Gathering is: Don't assume you know what the customer wants, ask.
Rule 2: Involve the users from the start.

I can't tell you how many times someone has come to ACF declaring that they have just created something that will be the best thing cam girls have ever seen. What baffles me is that many of them have no clue how camming works and/or have ever spoken to a cam model. By the time they come here they have sunk a lot of time into a project that doesn't meet all/most/any of our needs and they feel like they're being attacked when we say their idea sucks or could be improved. OP, thanks for being receptive to our comments and for involving us, but I wish you would have done it sooner.

That being said, I'm going to echo what Noelle has said and add that success is measured differently for every model. There isn't a one size fits all or most when it comes to what we want and need in order to feel successful at camming. Some girls may want to make a certain amount of money each month and don't care how many hours on (and off) cam it takes to make it and some girls are happy working 50 hours a month and making less. Some girls are happy being just cam girls and others want to be on the cover of Penthouse (Congrats Aspen! ). I would suggest that before you go any further with this project you spend some time talking with cam girls to know what their motivation and goals are in order to understand how to meet their needs. Then, and only then, would I suggest spending any more time on a project designed to help cam models.

Best wishes!

 

[Gen]

I wouldn't use this service just because I'm not a big fan of posting my videos, but can I offer a suggestion?

In the screenshot you posted, the link is quite small and honestly just looks like typical tubesite spam! Maybe you could change it so it looks a bit more integrated? If I saw it, I'd assume it was just another one of those "horny moms in your area" or whatever type of links.

I'm not sure how you could do it, maybe with a little profile or even a photo of the girl to show that it actually is the same girl from the video? Just something a bit more personal might help!!

Good luck :hello2:

 

[xtraffic]

Ohhhhhh so this is one of those things where we should be grateful to be paid in exposure. :roll:

Thanks for the feedback TallulaBlythe. As bizarre as this may sound it's actually really useful for us to gauge how you guys feel about this. We're definitely going to go back to the drawing board in regards to our value proposition/affiliate revenue split.

#eternaloptimist

 

[xtraffic]

In the screenshot you posted, the link is quite small and honestly just looks like typical tubesite spam! Maybe you could change it so it looks a bit more integrated? If I saw it, I'd assume it was just another one of those "horny moms in your area" or whatever type of links.

Thanks for the feedback. Yup, we feared this also. It's a constant negotiation with the tube owners as to how intrusive/visible we can make this announcement. I would love to try an in player text notification, profile pic, or even better the actual video feed. All of this requires development and collaboration with you guys to figure out, so fingers crossed we can find 1-2 more models willing to give us a hand on making this work!

 

[xtraffic]

My opinion (from a business standpoint, nobody kill me plz) is that you're not going to have any moderate-high earners jumping on this because there is no incentive for them. They're already doing well, why participate in something that might maybe earn them just a few more bucks? The gain to be had would be a drop in the bucket for them.
I already hit my goals, I already have good traffic, what else do you have to offer me?

The only performers who have something to gain are ones who have low traffic/low earnings, but how much will lower earning models net you in affiliate money anyway?
:confusion-shrug:

Right now we're working on the hypothesis that the leads will be much more qualified/highly targeted as we're matching models to videos meaning "hopefully" we'd start to see more conversions/higher sales. In order to prove this hypothesis we need to back it up with data, in order for that too happen we need a few volunteers. Chicken and egg scenario.

Here's my question: how many extra "viewers"/sales/tokens would it take for you guys to feel this is a worthwhile offering?

Answers could be net (extra 5000 tokens per video) or as a % of existing income (+20%)

If this could be achieved do you not think it would be attractive for most models?

Thanks again guys for your patience/feedback/vibe. This is very very useful. As I've mentioned previously this will ONLY work if we figure out a model that is satisfactory for ALL involved

 

[xtraffic]

I can't tell you how many times someone has come to ACF declaring that they have just created something that will be the best thing cam girls have ever seen. What baffles me is that many of them have no clue how camming works and/or have ever spoken to a cam model. By the time they come here they have sunk a lot of time into a project that doesn't meet all/most/any of our needs and they feel like they're being attacked when we say their idea sucks or could be improved. OP, thanks for being receptive to our comments and for involving us, but I wish you would have done it sooner.

Hey KittyWilde. Believe me, I am KICKING myself today for not having done this sooner. As someone that ADVISES startups at an incubator that evangelises "Lean Startup Methodology" (one of their favourite sayings is "Get out of the building") I am feeling more than a little stupid right now.

Being the eternal optimist though I'm really excited about:

• The models community attitude, support and overall willingness to at least talk it through. This thread would have descended into a flame war pretty quickly on most boards!
• I understand the importance of the affiliate revenue now. Maybe we could setup a parent affiliate model where both of us benefit (we will need to generate revenue somehow)
• Getting feedback in general from you guys has sparked more than a few ideas that I'll be exploring for sure!

Look, end of the day this HAS to work for you guys otherwise it's dead in the water. All feedback welcome, and again. If anyone wants to participate in the pilot I'd love to hear from you. I'm happy to have 100% of the affiliate revenue flow through your account, as long as you share the data on sales/conversions. (This is all that I'm interested in at this point).

Thanks again everyone for your posts, after 2 months of development it's great to put this project out there and interact with you all!

 

[xtraffic]

Now that you've better explained it, I can see where you're setting yourself apart.
However, as a camgirl with 3 years of experience I can say you're going to be hard pressed to find girls who will participate in this if it's not her very own affiliate link that is being used.

A lot of people come around trying to get a cut of the camgirl pie, and I don't exactly like giving that away any more than I have to. I would rather spend the time, bake it from scratch, and get the whole thing to myself if ya know what I'm saying.

Thanks once again for taking the time to reply to my (sometime-too-long) posts. Just to confirm that for now I'd be happy to pass users through the models affiliate link in order to gather the data. I'm thinking maybe we could setup a parent affiliate situation down the track so we both benefit.

I feel the service we provide is valuable, in theory we'll be sending a bunch of existing fans that may not have even realised the had the chance to speak to the models in these videos on the tubes (where most of the traffic is). It's just a case of agreeing the split between models/cam providers/tubes/us

 

[Jessi]

I feel the service we provide is valuable, in theory we'll be sending a bunch of existing fans that may not have even realised the had the chance to speak to the models in these videos on the tubes (where most of the traffic is). It's just a case of agreeing the split between models/cam providers/tubes/us

An "existing fan" would presumably know which girls they are a fan of. Simply googling their name would lead to tons more videos, social networking and camsites. This is why many camgirls watermark our feeds and content. This also applies to the casual porn user who stumbles across a camgirl rip while browsing for mainstream porn.

If they're looking for stolen camgirl videos on tubesites specifically, they are probably already aware of camming and that they can use paid services to interact with models and they don't want to do that. Or they dont want to be paying customers, which is why they're watching stolen videos on xtube or whatever; and which is why they aren't desirable traffic for us.

Personally speaking, I also don't want Joe Public to get the impression that because I have a teaser/advertisement video uploaded to a tubesite that it means Im ok with my paid videos or shows being uploaded there. I have been surprised by how many members I have encountered who didn't realize that all my content is homemade and that I only earn money when someone buys something directly from me.

Camgirls don't want our hard work being given away, especially if a third party is making money off it.

If you can find a way to make the people who consume pirated camgirl porn or show rips into spending members, then I think you would have something useful.

 

[xtraffic]

If you can find a way to make the people who consume pirated camgirl porn or show rips into spending members, then I think you would have something useful.

As always, thanks for the feedback, and I agree. Wanna help us figure it out?

 

[Sansa]

Ohhhhhh so this is one of those things where we should be grateful to be paid in exposure. :roll:

Thanks for the feedback TallulaBlythe. As bizarre as this may sound it's actually really useful for us to gauge how you guys feel about this. We're definitely going to go back to the drawing board in regards to our value proposition/affiliate revenue split.

#eternaloptimist

Wow, my originally post probably came off as really rude, my apologies!

Regarding exposure, it doesn't always help gain new tippers. While these aren't massive rooms on MFC, there are times where I have 100-150 people in a room and don't have any tippers because most people are hanging out in hopes that someone else pays for a show.

The problem is, the people who watch free videos on a tube site are usually not interested in paying for porn, or for participating in the culture of camsites, they're vastly different environments.

On MFC in particular, there are three tiers of members: premiums (people who have spent at least $20 at one point), basics (people who have created accounts and have never spent money), and guests (people who have no account). At any given time, there are always far more guests than basics, more basics than premiums. And many of us have to block guests and basics because many of them are rude, and usually it's because they demand free stuff because of the free porn mentality derived from the many tube sites all over the internet. Camgirls get stuff like this a lot: "well this other model is doing this for free, why aren't YOU" or "well I can go watch porn for free, so you should show your pussy bb" straight down to "I don't believe in paying for porn."

This is a sharp contrast from people who like talking to the girls, taking them for a private show, tipping for a video, tipping just to see them smile, or to see their breasts in particular, not just any boobs (because boobs and much more can be found for free of course).

If a porn studio is okay with their clips being uploaded, they've probably already sold content elsewhere, they've already compensated their workers, whether it's actors, anyone filming or editing, and so on. But for camgirls, this is the exact opposite. If we upload a video somewhere, that is our work being given away for free (even just a teaser, sometimes that's all someone needs to get off) and I am willing to bet that very few will be interested in seeing more if they have to pay for it.

The kind of traffic coming in from a free site is going to be the kind of traffic that we're blocking. I have guests and basics blocked because of the amount of rudeness and demands, and I feel bad saying this, but that isn't worth allowing the small number of nice people to talk in my room (really I have nothing against them!). This sort of behavior pisses off people who regularly tip us or buy our videos, and excessive rudeness from a person can kill the mood of a room. Sometimes I experiment around and allow basics to talk, hoping to give them a chance, and usually within an hour I have to mute them again, or I get a tip note from a premium asking me to mute basics again. A lot of premiums have said that they won't even go into a model's room if she doesn't have guests and basics muted, so there goes a huge chuck of people who would be supporting our work.

I think most of us end up getting better traffic when we market ourselves on places where our content is already sold (where people are paying for content) or on places like twitter and tumblr where we can interact and shine with our personalities and where we can personally advertise our content since it helps mimic the cam environment.

 

[xtraffic]

Wow, so much important/useful information. Thanks so so much TallulaBlythe.

The problem is, the people who watch free videos on a tube site are usually not interested in paying for porn, or for participating in the culture of camsites, they're vastly different environments.

I can see why there's that perception, and I'm starting to second-guess many of our original assumptions. Nonetheless I would like to verify your idea with data before completely scrapping the project (especially after all the work we've put into it). I know I had a bit of an "aha" moment when after working with Tubes for 18 months I suddenly realised that many of the girls were available on the cam sites. It blew my mind that these models that so many users have as favourites/watch their videos over and over were available to chat to. Those are the types of users SPECIFICALLY that I'm going after.

I've had a some interest via PM so hopefully we'll be able to run a small trial with 3-5 models to test this theory out. If anyone else is interested in testing this idea please do reach out! (Again, I'm happy to use your affiliate code and also we can get the videos removed post test if you prefer).

Much gratitude,

Rod.

 

[Jessi]

If a porn studio is okay with their clips being uploaded, they've probably already sold content elsewhere, they've already compensated their workers, whether it's actors, anyone filming or editing, and so on. But for camgirls, this is the exact opposite. If we upload a video somewhere, that is our work being given away for free (even just a teaser, sometimes that's all someone needs to get off) and I am willing to bet that very few will be interested in seeing more if they have to pay for it.

^^THIS^^^

It usually takes up my entire day to set up, get ready, film, edit, render and upload a feature video. Im doing it all by myself and I dont get paid unless someone buys it from me. And usually, when a member buys my video, its because he specifically wants content of me, the girl he got to know on cam. This is also why a porn DVD or site membership may cost less than a single camgirl video.

Pirating camgirl shows/porn VS mainstream porn is like the difference between stealing a 2$ jar of brand name jam from Walmart, or stealing 8$ jam from a family-run farmers market booth. Everyone involved in the production of the brand name jam has been paid already, whereas the people at the farmers market have not been. Furthermore, a few dollars loss to Walmart is a drop in the bucket, but its a lot more dear to the folks brewing up jelly in their kitchen. Video sales make up a huge portion of my income.

When someone uploads my video to a tubesite, Im making not seeing a dime on those views, but the site is (presumably from ad revenue). And members won't bother buying it. It also costs me time to deal with the copyright infringement.

Another reason we have a problem with this is that a lot of girls don't want people to know they cam. Less people know about camming and we can geoblock somewhat. But everyone and their dad watches tube sites, so unwanted exposure is a reason besides money/copyright that we don't like our stuff being pirated. Although it happens to most models eventually.

This is just an example. The only way I would want to upload my videos to a tubesite, is if I was making some serious royalties off of it. It would have to be enough to make up for the loss of sales from MFC and my Clipstore (which would become redundant), plus profit. This system also wouldn't be guaranteed to be successful. Just like most Youtubers arent the most popular channel making millions of views a day, most camgirls doing this wouldn't be making enough money to be worth all that work they put in. So theres no point in the youtube style of video distribution when I have plenty of people willing to purchase the video from me or my clipstore.

I think you and your team need to understand that the production and where the money is earned is vastly different between camming and porn, although they may seem like similar businesses on the surface. And that while they do have some overlap, they're different audiences. Sorry for being wordy, but you admitted you knew little about camming and this is a pretty important nuance that you guys should understand.

 

[xtraffic]

This community ROCKS!!! Wow, seriously impressed and grateful for all the feedback.

Video sales make up a huge portion of my income.

Clearly this is one of my fundamental misconceptions. If anyone could share data on this it would be much appreciated. (ie 80% videos 20% cams, etc.)

When someone uploads my video to a tubesite, Im making not seeing a dime on those views, but the site is (presumably from ad revenue). And members won't bother buying it.

Yup, ad revenue is the majority of income. The idea is to use a few of your videos to promote your cam session AND the rest of your content. We've seen it happen with the studios. 6 years ago they would upload 2-3 min clips, then it was 5 mins, more recently we're seeing 8-12 min clips. I know people in the industry that are making MEGA bucks from promoting their content over the tubes. The idea being that you "seed" your content and those videos that are truly awesome will leave users wanting more. (So maybe they won't pay for the first 5 views but after 1-2 weeks if it's really that good they'll start looking for more).

It also costs me time to deal with the copyright infringement.

I'm seeing this as a recurring problem and am gonna speak to some friends that run the best performing DMCA takedown service in the industry to see if we can help solve it for you guys.

Another reason we have a problem with this is that a lot of girls don't want people to know they cam. Less people know about camming and we can geoblock somewhat. But everyone and their dad watches tube sites, so unwanted exposure is a reason besides money/copyright that we don't like our stuff being pirated. Although it happens to most models eventually.

This is another recurring issue that comes up. I'm gonna do some thinking on this. Maybe we can "flag" certain videos/countries on the tubes. Gonna float the idea with them.

This is just an example. The only way I would want to upload my videos to a tubesite, is if I was making some serious royalties off of it. It would have to be enough to make up for the loss of sales from MFC and my Clipstore (which would become redundant), plus profit. This system also wouldn't be guaranteed to be successful. Just like most Youtubers arent the most popular channel making millions of views a day, most camgirls doing this wouldn't be making enough money to be worth all that work they put in. So theres no point in the youtube style of video distribution when I have plenty of people willing to purchase the video from me or my clipstore.

I think you and your team need to understand that the production and where the money is earned is vastly different between camming and porn, although they may seem like similar businesses on the surface. And that while they do have some overlap, they're different audiences. Sorry for being wordy, but you admitted you knew little about camming and this is a pretty important nuance that you guys should understand.

Again, we're looking to create "promo" content to drive sales within the session and of the content behind a paywall.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and provide such invaluable insight. You have no idea how meaningful it is to myself and the team.

Nothing has been said about mobile, are you guys able to do anything with mobile traffic?

I still believe there's an opportunity in there somewhere, we just have to figure out exactly how it would work and hopefully we'll get lucky and find a few more models that are willing to help us test these theories out *hint hint*

 

[JuniperGin]

In the same vein as 'royalties', I'd be far more inclined to do this if there were either some kind of lump sum in addition to the split affiliate revenue, or a portion of the ad revenue. I say this because if I don't get any clicks to my room converted to paying traffic from having my video posted up for free, I would at the very least want some kind of compensation. Especially since at that point I wouldn't be able to sell that video anymore, because it's on xx number of tubesites for free already. Does that make sense? I feel this idea has potential if it's handled correctly.

Further, overall I have to say I really appreciate the way you're handling this thread. As a couple other people have mentioned, you have no idea how many people come in here claiming to have the best thing since the c920 for camgirls. Better yet, they like to think we don't know anything, and they know more about our industry than we do. I think it's lost on a lot of them that we run our own business, so we do understand a hell of a lot more than we're given credit for. I really appreciate your willingness to learn and grow this idea from our feedback.

Edited to add: Regarding mobile traffic - not many camsites have stellar mobile interfaces. Live streaming is SUCH a CPU-intensive operation, and requires a pretty decent connection to get any kind of quality in the feed. At this stage of its development, I don't know that mobile traffic is a huge factor, simply because the technology to support it isn't yet at a conveniently usable level. I could be wrong, but that's been my experience thus far.

 

[Jessi]

Again, we're looking to create "promo" content to drive sales within the session and of the content behind a paywall.

I understand, I was just using an example to further illustrate the how/why of why camgirls aren't fans of tubesites.

I still believe there's an opportunity in there somewhere, we just have to figure out exactly how it would work and hopefully we'll get lucky and find a few more models that are willing to help us test these theories out *hint hint*

I would be shocked if tubesites did anything in the way of geoblocking, since it would be extra work for them and all their income comes from page views. If I were a model participating in this I would also expect the tubesite I was working with to SERIOUSLY clamp down on users uploading my videos. The promo clips should be the only ones available, or else its pointless.

The idea being that you "seed" your content and those videos that are truly awesome will leave users wanting more. (So maybe they won't pay for the first 5 views but after 1-2 weeks if it's really that good they'll start looking for more).

If Im making making super awesome new teaser clips on the regular, or uploading cuts from my best videos on a regular basis thats a lot of extra work/ freebies given away just in the hopes that a fraction of those views click on my cam link. then Im crossing my fingers that a fraction of those viewers start spending. Not to mention that a portion of that revenue from the affiliate link and the pageviews are going toward your service/and or the tubesite. This totally makes sense for a production company to do because they're such a large scale operation. It doesnt work for me at all (see aforementioned differences).

I already get lots of traffic simply by virtue of being on one of the most popular camsites and being located in north america. The service as you're describing it doesnt offer me anything I can't get just by camming more. On MyFreeCams, the promo IS my free webcam, and if users want to see more they can contribute tokens. When I sell my clips on ManyVids, they can see a 9 second preview and then purchase the clip directly from my store to see the rest. I dont have to make promotional materials and then pay another website to advertise for me (in this case your operation/the tubesite), because the sites I work on have provided that for me.

Cam studios, solo site networks etc already upload their own promo material for free. MAYBE you could find a reason they would want to use your service.

I think youd be better off coming up with something no one has done before and that camgirls actually need, and focusing your energy there. But do the market research before you put tons of your time and work into building something.

RE: mobile traffic: Not very useful at this stage. MFCs mobile interface is choppy and its not easy to tip, for example. So It doesnt give us models much benefit.

 

[weirdbr]

Nothing has been said about mobile, are you guys able to do anything with mobile traffic?

Mobile is still way behind in usage in cam sites due to the fact that most of them suck on that platform. For example, MFC only started messing around with HLS-based video playback in the last 6 months and so far it still sucks - video lags 30+ seconds behind chat, which makes it almost impossible for mobile users to interact with the models and the room without causing a lot of confusion. Plus, mobile-capable video is only enabled if the model remembers to click on the 'super HD' (or whatever it is called) option in the streamer. Maybe once they make their desktop clients stop using RTMP and move to HLS (or DASH) by default, things will be more interesting for mobile.