Pornstar August Ames commits suicide after bullying for refusing to have sex w/ man who did gay porn

[Puffin]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...ng-to-have-sex-with-man-who-did-gay-porn.html

In recent days, Ames’ Twitter feed has been littered with cyberbullies accusing her of being homophobic after she publicly chose to not work with an unidentified actor who had previously shot gay porn.

 

[CoffeeKnight]

That's horrible.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't know the actress but I've read it on the newspapers. As far as I understood, according to what I've read, this story has very little to do with homophobia and vey much to do with the pressure that has been put on the model to shoot a scene. So, ultimately, it'a all about $$$.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So where is the bullying? Looking through the Twitter thread, having real trouble seeing anything that would rise to the level of reaching for a rope, as opposed to setting the account to private (or even just ditching Twitter completely).

 

[Just_A_Guy]

having real trouble seeing anything that would rise to the level of reaching for a rope

Well, maybe she had already issues going on and being attacked and cyberbullied didn't help. What gave me food for thought is that some of the online harrasments and attacks came not from men but from women in her industry.

 

[JickyJuly]

Anything said to her other than "sorry someone tried to push your boundaries" was out of line. It's unbelievable that those in her own industry tried to make a political statement based on her consent. Everyone on the planet has the right to turn down sex with anyone for any reason. Those reasons should not be questioned. The people that accused her of homophobia were basically arguing that she owed her body to a man. That's not an argument that can be made for the sake of anyone or anything. I'm pretty liberal. I probably tread into what some people would call social justice warrior territory on occasion. But, I think that anyone who said ANYTHING to her about homophobia is a trash human who needs to go back to the drawing board with their thought processes.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

ETA: forgot to add the sad part. Women that I'm sure they call themselves feminists and support equal rights. As if it was not a woman right who choose to fuck. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Well, maybe she had already issues going on and being attacked and cyberbullied didn't help. What gave me food for thought is that some of the online harrasments and attacks came not from men but from women in her industry.

What attacks? What cyberbullying? What online harassment? Please show me.

I agree other factors played into it.

Anything said to her other than "sorry someone tried to push your boundaries" was out of line. It's unbelievable that those in her own industry tried to make a political statement based on her consent. Everyone on the planet has the right to turn down sex with anyone for any reason. Those reasons should not be questioned. The people that accused her of homophobia were basically arguing that she owed her body to a man. That's not an argument that can be made for the sake of anyone or anything. I'm pretty liberal. I probably tread into what some people would call social justice warrior territory on occasion.

I sort of disagree with you here. Based on my reading of things so far, she turned down a job based on the risk factors she perceived.
I don't think questioning reasons should be off limits, even for feminist ideology.
I think the people that reacted to her comment were arguing that she owed her speech to the LGBTQQIAAP political ideology, not her body to a man.

But, I think that anyone who said ANYTHING to her about homophobia is a trash human who needs to go back to the drawing board with their thought processes.

Now is this remark an attack? Cyberbullying? I don't think so.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Please show me

Oh gosh, I think you wouldn't recognize it even if I showed them to you.

Again, forgot to add, I would define those kind of women that I mentioned above a sort of "useful idiots" in an industry ruled by men. My 2 cents.

 

[Gen]

Anything said to her other than "sorry someone tried to push your boundaries" was out of line. It's unbelievable that those in her own industry tried to make a political statement based on her consent. Everyone on the planet has the right to turn down sex with anyone for any reason. Those reasons should not be questioned. The people that accused her of homophobia were basically arguing that she owed her body to a man. That's not an argument that can be made for the sake of anyone or anything. I'm pretty liberal. I probably tread into what some people would call social justice warrior territory on occasion. But, I think that anyone who said ANYTHING to her about homophobia is a trash human who needs to go back to the drawing board with their thought processes.

I find stuff like this really interesting from a liberal(/)feminist perspective. I am of the camp that you should be able to turn down whoever you want, doesn’t matter why, without criticism. If I said I refused to have sex with white cis men because they’re aggressive/I have previous trauma with them/they make me uncomfortable, many feminists would say “of course!” Replace any of those identifiers and it’s problematic. That doesn’t make sense to me. My consent should be unquestionable.

Idk I have a lot of feelings about it. Obviously if sex work were regulated like a normal business, we couldn’t say “I won’t serve these people” and this is why I dislike when people act as if sex work is no different than other jobs, because I think many sex workers value the ability to discriminate against whoever they want. I like having autonomy over who goes inside me, much more than I care who I make a latte for. In work and in life, I want everyone to choose their sex partners for reasons beyond being scared to be called out on the internet.


As a side note, I am fascinated by the differences between girl/girl and boy/girl dating, and boy/boy dating. There’s tons of drama in the lesbian dating scene about whether it’s problematic to only date cis lesbians, if it’s transphobic to not want to date any transwomen. A lot of women who say they are only attracted to cis women apologizing and saying they’ll examine their preferences or whatever. Then you look at Grindr and it’s like “no Asians, no fatties, no femmes”. It highlights soooo many things for me, like how exclusionary the gay scene is to so many but also how much less gay men care about being open about their own preferences. Are those preferences often racist/fatphobic/etc? Yes. Do these dudes care? Evidently no. I have a ton of complex feelings on all of that stuff but mostly wanted to share because it’s interesting to me and tangentially related to the topic of being bullied for saying no.

Regardless of my ramblings, my thoughts go to her and her family.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

if sex work were regulated like a normal business, we couldn’t say

You could. Because health and personal safety come first.

 

[paige_orion]

I know that what happened in the days prior to her suicide probably contributed to her decision, but I also think it's important to realize that the cyberbullying wasn't just a one-instance thing. It's VERY VERY VERY common to see directed towards any adult performer, especially females. I mean... Just go look at the comments section on almost any article reporting her death for a small taste of what she probably experienced normally. Although I didn't know her and no one can guess her mindset at the time, I am hesitant believe that a single incident led to this drastic act. Usually, there's an accumulation of other stuff, and then there's one straw that finally shatters the camel's back.

It was disheartening to see attacks come from fellow performers. Although I realize that her stance is an issue that can spark a lot of passion on both sides of the debate, there's a vast difference between stating your disagreement politely & spewing vitriol & hate. On top of receiving hate from so many people every day on a normal basis, I'm sure feeling smothered with hate & judgment from the community you love... I'm sure that had to have been overwhelming. While I did see many people being respectful with their disagreement, I saw a lot of people who crossed major lines, and it was painful enough to see on the outside. I can't imagine what it felt like firsthand.

It's tragic because cyberbullying is so incredibly common, especially towards performers in the adult industry, and it is so exhausting to deal with. No matter how thick your skin is, that shit can just add up. And I see people sling poisonous words & rape threats & death wishes & violent promises every damn day. And the people who say such things don't care. There is zero empathy, just weak justification for treating a fellow human being like trash.

The whole situation is just so sad on every level.

Though I do think it is a little ironic on a thread talking about a deceased woman being cyberbullied to turn around and call others idiots. I think the ease in which people can call others names is part of the problem in the first place? We can disagree with people for calling-names & spewing hate, but I think we can do better than judging them by turning around & calling them names too? I dunno. I think it's so easy to fall into the cycle of hate, and everyone feels justified for treating others disrespectfully. I think we can all strive to improve ourselves & to be more conscious of how we treat others, even those actions/opinions we disagree with.

 

[JickyJuly]

I sort of disagree with you here. Based on my reading of things so far, she turned down a job based on the risk factors she perceived.
I don't think questioning reasons should be off limits, even for feminist ideology.
I think the people that reacted to her comment were arguing that she owed her speech to the LGBTQQIAAP political ideology, not her body to a man.

From what I read, she had written into her preference file that she chooses not work with men who crossover and her representative tried to sneak a crossover dude past her. That is repugnant and problematic. Her initial tweet, I felt, was more a heads up about deception. But, either way her comment related back to her consent, I feel that trumps the validity of her thought process re: the gays. She was a 23 year old in the porn industry. She was not a doctor or scientist making claims.

Now is this remark an attack? Cyberbullying? I don't think so

For it to be bullying, I'd probably have to name names at least. Since those people ran their mouth directly at someone, they involved themselves in whatever drama exists. And, given that a very young person is now dead, that's a lot. I'm not sure they can turn around and call themselves the victims...as much as people do try.

 

[Gen]

You could. Because health and personal safety come first.

It’s not health and safety to say “no black guys”. How would that stand up legally?

 

[JickyJuly]

It’s not health and safety to say “no black guys”. How would that stand up legally?

Many people in the service industries deny clients based on things they're not legally allowed to. They just never say it out loud. Walk with a black girl into a white salon and see how many girls suddenly look really busy.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I have a bunch of thoughts about this, some of which are probably contradictory.

• Obviously, it's tragic.
• She was definitely being bullied (there's a bunch of screengrabs floating around of since deleted tweets telling her to kill herself) and she was criticised by women in her industry she would likely have viewed as peers. That had to hurt.
• It's probably disingenuous to state that she killed herself purely because she was bullied. While that clearly seems to be a factor, there must have been some underlying depression/suicidal tendencies (and indeed there are tweets of hers that alluded to her depression that are being retweeted now).
• She absolutely had the right to choose who she did and did not fuck
• Her reasoning for not wanting to film with gay/bisexual men (the risk of STDs) likely upset a lot of gay performers, and I can empathise with them. As has been pointed out by others, they are tested just as frequently as straight performers, and stigmas aside, present no more of a risk than straight porn stars.
• I hope this doesn't become a witch-hunt wherein anyone who publicly disagreed with her is now blamed for her death, but there are already signs of that happening.

 

[Gen]

Many people in the service industries deny clients based on things they're not legally allowed to. They just never say it out loud. Walk with a black girl into a white salon and see how many girls suddenly look really busy.

I don’t think discrimination is easy to prove or commonly fought. I’m just saying that I’m glad, when it comes to who I’m fucking, I have no legal obligation to pretend I’m open to fucking everyone. My point wasn’t that it could never happen (like the salon example), but that sex work is relatively unique in that you can be open about your discrimination without risk of getting in trouble.

 

[JickyJuly]

I hope this doesn't become a witch-hunt wherein anyone who publicly disagreed with her is now blamed for her death, but there are already signs of that happening.

What are the legalities of telling someone to kill themselves if they actually do? It doesn't seem like something you could be found criminally liable for but could her family sue for damages in civil court? Or could Twitter be found liable financially? Twitter and FB are both cracking down on talk of self harm and suicide. Also, is "kill yourself" a trendy, flippant remark among younger people? I've never thought to say that out loud to anyone, and I talk a lot of shit.

 

[Gen]

What are the legalities of telling someone to kill themselves if they actually do? It doesn't seem like something you could be found criminally liable for but could her family sue for damages in civil court? Or could Twitter be found liable financially? Twitter and FB are both cracking down on talk of self harm and suicide. Also, is "kill yourself" a trendy, flippant remark among younger people? I've never thought to say that out loud to anyone, and I talk a lot of shit.

This girl was charged for convincing her boyfriend to commit suicide, but it was pretty intense: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/03/us/michelle-carter-texting-suicide-sentencing/index.html

Not sure just tweeting once or twice could be considered criminal. I think it’s a reach but I’m not sure where I think the line is. If one individual did it daily? Idk.

 

[mynameisbob84]

What are the legalities of telling someone to kill themselves if they actually do? It doesn't seem like something you could be found criminally liable for but could her family sue for damages in civil court? Or could Twitter be found liable financially? Twitter and FB are both cracking down on talk of self harm and suicide. Also, is "kill yourself" a trendy, flippant remark among younger people? I've never thought to say that out loud to anyone, and I talk a lot of shit.

I wouldn't have thought it would hold up in court, but I really don't know. The people who told her to kill herself, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for. But I've seen people who made valid points in a non-hostile bid to educate be held up as her "attackers" and then be subjected to the very same types of abuse that these same people are theoretically trying to retroactively condemn.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

It’s not health and safety to say “no black guys”. How would that stand up legally?

Wait, I'm talking about laws that protect your health and safety in a common workplace. It doesn't matter if you are black, white, blue, pink or yellow. Or what you sex is. Your personal health and safety should come first. I just read the story in the newspapers. Idk, maybe she didn't know the guy, maybe she didn't like him, maybe she wasn't sure of his tests, maybe she didn't know what the guy was doing in his own private life (was he escorting? idk, first thought that came to my mind) or maybe she was well aware. I have no idea. The idea that I got is that pressure has been put on her. So it's not about her being homophobic, it's just a question of money.

 

[Gen]

Wait, I'm talking about laws that protect your health and safety in a common workplace. It doesn't matter if you are black, white, blue, pink or yellow. Or what you sex is. Your personal health and safety should come first. I just read the story in the newspapers. Idk, maybe she didn't know the guy, maybe she didn't like him, maybe she wasn't sure of his tests, maybe she didn't kneow what the guy was doing in his own private life (was he escorting? idk, first thought that came to my mind) or maybe she was well aware. I have no idea. The idea that I got is that pressure has been put on her. So it's not about her being homophobic, it's just a question of money.

My point was that if sex work was any other job, it’d be subjected to the same discrimination laws. I agree health and safety should come first, hypothetically. Could I argue “well, a lot of Indian/disabled/gay clients have been aggressive so I don’t feel safe with them”? Maybe. I personally think you’d be up for a discrimination suit, though, just as you would if you openly refused to serve Indian/disables/gay customers at your bakery. That was all I was getting at, not trying to argue anything about this woman’s situation in particular.

 

[Guy]

 

[Just_A_Guy]

sex work

My opinion on the matter is that since sex work is working with your body, you have the right to argue about whatever you want if you don't feel safe or if something could damage your health.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Oh gosh, I think you wouldn't recognize it even if I showed them to you.

Now I will just bet you are right about that.

Personally, I come down on the side of August Ames with the twitter drama. I didn't see a goddamn thing wrong with what she said. And reading through the comments, I don't see a one that justifies all this silly 'cyberbullying' hysteria. I think it is a shame she killed herself for sure.

I have long felt that children should be banned from the internet unless they are being supervised by an adult. May need to extend that to people "struggling with depression", anyone at risk of microaggressions, feminists and other religious extremists of all faiths/parties.

From what I read, she had written into her preference file that she chooses not work with men who crossover and her representative tried to sneak a crossover dude past her. That is repugnant and problematic. Her initial tweet, I felt, was more a heads up about deception.

Now this is real. This I agree with.

Her agent pulled a shit move. The ensuing cries of "owed her body to a man" and "she is homophobic!" are equally valid imo. And by that I mean equally moronic.

For it to be bullying, I'd probably have to name names at least. Since those people ran their mouth directly at someone, they involved themselves in whatever drama exists. And, given that a very young person is now dead, that's a lot. I'm not sure they can turn around and call themselves the victims...as much as people do try.

A young person is dead. Assuming she killed herself, she is responsible for her death. And again, I do think that is a shame.

I don't think that the people that were commenting on her twitter were real victims, other than they read something they didn't like. Same goes for those who are now doing the "victim of cyberbullying" handwringing. We keep playing in the Victim Olympics, even the gold medal winners are going to wind up losers.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

I didn't see a goddamn thing wrong with what she said.

me neither

reading through the comments, I don't see a one that justifies all this silly 'cyberbullying' hysteria.

read again

Also, can we resume the discussion tomorrow or next days? It's late here I'm going to sleep.

 

[AmberCutie]

Evil Empire twitter called our one of the porn dudes that told her to drink cyanide saying they’d never hire him again. That’s just one of the accounts that had a huge hand in the toxic bullying.

 

[SMuser69]

SJW communities always eat their own because they try to destroy before educate and don't accept apology. She used an ignorant reason to express her right to choose who she works with. The problem is people don't know the line anymore between education, debate and aggression. This time the person that got hurt was just someone they used to like.

This is why social justice is no different than any other form of vigilantism. Man or Women, weaponizing accusation alone is bound to lead to unintended consequences.

I have no doubt considering WHO was negatively tweeting her that she was about to get herself black balled and shunned out her industry. Having your career destroyed publicly would but anyone into a fragile place. People with clear power over her career were shutting her out.

People need to accept others make mistakes. Making a mistake shouldn't make you an immediate target for negative action.

People on this forum are guilty of the same behavior. All people should learn from this and look in the mirror more when taking actions against others. Learn to live with viewpoints to don't agree with instead of silencing them or running into echo chambers that amplify group think. You have to always acknowledge Robin Hood is still a thief no matter how good or bad the person we steals from is.

 

[JickyJuly]

Her agent pulled a shit move. The ensuing cries of "owed her body to a man" and "she is homophobic!" are equally valid imo. And by that I mean equally moronic.

What do you think the message of those attacking her was if not that she owed her body to a man? She apologized for the way she shared her reasoning and stated that she didn't want to make it worse. No one should be made to apologize for not sexing someone, and the people coming for her still didn't back down when she gave them that. If an apology wasn't enough, what would have been outside of going back and not turning the man down/not calling out her representative? I know that I can make many situations into a feminist nightmare, but this one really is completely based in misogyny. If a woman outside of sex work said "I don't sleep with bisexual or pansexual men." would she be harassed? Probably not. If a man in porn said "I don't want to work with lesbian performers because dental dam usage is not common." would he be harassed? Probably not. If she weren't a woman and a sex worker, they wouldn't have called her consent into question. They weren't accepting anything less than her compliance with a performer she felt was wrong for her. They absolutely felt she owed her body to this man.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Anything said to her other than "sorry someone tried to push your boundaries" was out of line. It's unbelievable that those in her own industry tried to make a political statement based on her consent. Everyone on the planet has the right to turn down sex with anyone for any reason. Those reasons should not be questioned. The people that accused her of homophobia were basically arguing that she owed her body to a man. That's not an argument that can be made for the sake of anyone or anything. I'm pretty liberal. I probably tread into what some people would call social justice warrior territory on occasion. But, I think that anyone who said ANYTHING to her about homophobia is a trash human who needs to go back to the drawing board with their thought processes.

Ok, I know this is going to make me sound like an insensitive asshole, but I've been drinking. It just seems to me that if baker can be sued for not baking a cake for a gay couple's wedding, then questioning a pornstar who refuses to have sex with gay/bi-sexual pornstar is not at all unreasonable.

Before everyone says , baking a cake is hugely different from having sex, yes it is.

On the other hand, there is also a huge difference between taking somebody to court for refusing to do something, and have random people question your decisions on twitter. It is order of magnitude more traumatic to be sued than be criticized on social media.

Secondly, the baker objected to the baking a cake for the gay couple was religious grounds. The Supreme Court has the difficult decision to decide if the bakers religious freedom is more or less important than a gay couples right to be not discriminated on.

What was her reason for refusing to work with the actor? She said she feared for her safety, because she believes gay porn star have more STDs. Is that really true/ I don't know. Everybody gets tested I thought before a shoot so I'm dubious it makes much of a difference. The reason the cake baker case is before Supreme Court is many years ago, blacks were refused service at restaurants, hotels, and stores. The reasons white folks refused service to blacks back then sounded suspiciously similar to both the cake baker and August's reasons. We as a society decided that blacks rights were more important than the rights of people who were uncomfortable with doing business blacks (aka racists.). Should we extend the same rights to homosexuals? Or should there be a line drawn, you have to serve a gay couple a meal, rent them a room, bake them a cake, but you don't have plan their wedding, and nor force a porn star to have sex with them. BTW, do we force legal prostitute in Nevada to have sex with black men, or bi-sexuals, or fat guys?

As far as I'm concerned none of these questions have easy answers, I can argue both sides for all of them.

Where I completely agree with Justjoined is this.

Personally, I come down on the side of August Ames with the twitter drama. I didn't see a goddamn thing wrong with what she said. And reading through the comments, I don't see a one that justifies all this silly 'cyberbullying' hysteria. I think it is a shame she killed herself for sure.

I have long felt that children should be banned from the internet unless they are being supervised by an adult. May need to extend that to people "struggling with depression", anyone at risk of microaggressions, feminists and other religious extremists of all faiths/parties.

When you participate in any form of social media, a forum, twitter, FB, etc. You should expect both criticism and praise. We should not and can't expect others to know that you are suffering from depression, triggered by XYZ, suffer anxiety attacks etc. Random strangers can't be held responsible for your actions. It was her and her friends responsibility for getting help for her depression, at the very least they should have told her to delete twitter from her phone for a while.

But you absolutely can't have it both ways. You can't have 600K followers like August had, and have 100-1000 people like everything you post and dozens of fans say how amazing you are and not expect negative comments, especially when you say something controversial.