Shooting Outside the Empire State Building

[Poker_Babe]

 

[bob]

i've always thought that discussions surrounding gun control laws, the 2nd amendment and our inalienable right to bear arms often end up as pissing matches
to me that says a lot about our fascination with them, in a normal everyday setting

 

[Red7227]

i've always thought that discussions surrounding gun control laws, the 2nd amendment and our inalienable right to bear arms often end up as pissing matches
to me that says a lot about our fascination with them, in a normal everyday setting

I had guns up to 1989. Since then it hasn't been worth having them because of the paperwork involved. Do I miss them? No. Do I feel less safe now than before? No. Do we have random shootings every week in Australia? No, but we didn't before the more severe controls on gun ownership either. You will have to look for another reason than gun ownership to explain why the US is full of nutbags that go on shooting rampages.

 

[Poker_Babe]

I have only 5 words for you...

 

[Nordling]

:lol: Moses!

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Isn't he dead?

 

[Jupiter551]

You will have to look for another reason than gun ownership to explain why the US is full of nutbags that go on shooting rampages.

Sure, but the question is whether those same nutbags would be able to kill as many innocents without it being so easy to pick up a gun.
We get crazy guys in Aust, thankfully most of them don't have guns and those that do often don't have a large selection of automatic weapons or ammo.
Remember Port Arthur? 35 people killed, 23 injured, the guy was using an SLR (yanks call them FALs) and an AR-15...if he'd been using a bolt-action rifle or pistols not even the staunchest gun fanatic could argue that innocent deaths would have been so high. So is it worth it?

 

[Mirra]

Relevant to the original topic: NYPD release shooting surveillance video.

 

[AllisonWilder]

Relevant to the original topic: NYPD release shooting surveillance video.

That's so crazy and chaotic.

 

[Red7227]

You will have to look for another reason than gun ownership to explain why the US is full of nutbags that go on shooting rampages.

Sure, but the question is whether those same nutbags would be able to kill as many innocents without it being so easy to pick up a gun.
We get crazy guys in Aust, thankfully most of them don't have guns and those that do often don't have a large selection of automatic weapons or ammo.
Remember Port Arthur? 35 people killed, 23 injured, the guy was using an SLR (yanks call them FALs) and an AR-15...if he'd been using a bolt-action rifle or pistols not even the staunchest gun fanatic could argue that innocent deaths would have been so high. So is it worth it?

Port Arthur would have happened anyway as the guns he had were illegal. He paid about $50,000 for them on the black market. Separating the nutbags from guns is a good thing, just doing it in the US is going to require a lot of average people voting to counter the interest groups that currently make up a lot of the voting blocks. The Yanks can barely manage their current elections, 100% turn out like Australia would be chaos.

Relevant to the original topic: NYPD release shooting surveillance video.

About what i expected. I hope the injured are able to make full recoveries.

 

[Bocefish]

We get crazy guys in Aust, thankfully most of them don't have guns and those that do often don't have a large selection of automatic weapons or ammo.

Automatic weapons are illegal for the average citizen in the U.S.

 

[Poker_Babe]

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I have that same gun.

 

[Poker_Babe]

I have that same gun.

LOL :-D

 

[Poker_Babe]

:lol: Moses!

"Let my people go"

 

[Jupiter551]

I have that same gun.

would blend nicely with pink marpat :lol:

BTW just me or is that rifle tiny? She said it's her mother's but it really is kid-sized

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Moses: Let my people go
Pharaoh: I have only five words for you, From my cold dead hands!

 

[Poker_Babe]

Moses: Let my people go
Pharaoh: I have only five words for you, From my cold dead hands!

OMFG That one almost had me in tears I was laughing so hard! Good One!

 

[mynameisbob84]

To the folk who are pro-guns: what's the appeal?
Is it purely a matter of feeling safe?
If guns were made illegal to own, would you feel more or less safe?
If you moved to a country that didn't allow gun ownership, would you feel more or less safe?

 

[Poker_Babe]

To the folk who are pro-guns: what's the appeal?
Is it purely a matter of feeling safe?
If guns were made illegal to own, would you feel more or less safe?
If you moved to a country that didn't allow gun ownership, would you feel more or less safe?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one."
-Cesare Beccaria

 

[Bocefish]

To the folk who are pro-guns: what's the appeal? It's different for everybody. Have you ever fired one?

Is it purely a matter of feeling safe? No, a gun is a tool like any other inanimate object that can be used in a variety of manners.

If guns were made illegal to own, would you feel more or less safe? Depending on the area, probably less safe because gun free zones are prime targets for criminals, rapists, burglars and murderers.

If you moved to a country that didn't allow gun ownership, would you feel more or less safe? See above answer.

People who are anti-gun will likely never understand.

 

[mynameisbob84]

To the folk who are pro-guns: what's the appeal?
Is it purely a matter of feeling safe?
If guns were made illegal to own, would you feel more or less safe?
If you moved to a country that didn't allow gun ownership, would you feel more or less safe?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one."
-Cesare Beccaria

So, you feel that because other people have guns, you need one too? But what if you lived in a country where very, very few people owned guns (Europe, Australia etc.). Would you still feel you needed a gun?

 

[Poker_Babe]

To the folk who are pro-guns: what's the appeal?
Is it purely a matter of feeling safe?
If guns were made illegal to own, would you feel more or less safe?
If you moved to a country that didn't allow gun ownership, would you feel more or less safe?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one."
-Cesare Beccaria

So, you feel that because other people have guns, you need one too? But what if you lived in a country where very, very few people owned guns (Europe, Australia etc.). Would you still feel you needed a gun?

The point of the second amendment is for the people to protect ourselves against a tyrannical government more then anything.
So I would feel less safe. Because disarming the people is always one of the first steps a government takes in setting up a dictatorship.


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[BullFrogBlues]

-Cesare Beccaria

Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria-Bonesana (Italian pronunciation: [ˈtʃɛzare bekkaˈria]; March 15, 1738 – November 28, 1794) was an Italian jurist, philosopher and politician best known for his treatise On Crimes and Punishments (1764), which condemned torture and the death penalty, and was a founding work in the field of penology. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesare_Beccaria

 

[Bocefish]

This site will probably answer a lot more of your questions...

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

 

[Poker_Babe]

which condemned torture

That's a good thing isn't it?!?!

 

[mynameisbob84]

People who are anti-gun will likely never understand.

Quite possibly. But then the flipside of that is the pro-gun folk not being able to see how people who don't live in places where guns are readily available feel safer as a result. I'm only 27 but not once in my life have I ever felt I needed to own a gun.
If we accept the theory that not owning a gun puts me at greater risk of burglary or rape or any other type of crime as fact, I still feel safer than I would if I (and crucially, everyone else) could just walk into a shop and buy a gun.

 

[BullFrogBlues]

which condemned torture

That's a good thing isn't it?!?!

Yeah, so? I was just noting the quote was from an 18th Century Italian.

He also condemned the death penalty, that's a good thing too.

 

[Jupiter551]

The point of the second amendment is for the people to protect ourselves against a tyrannical government more then anything.
So I would feel less safe. Because disarming the people is always one of the first steps a government takes in setting up a dictatorship.

Yeah but firstly, how many times have you - or really any western democratic government - had the need to actually take up arms against your government in the last 200 years?

Secondly, if the police and/or armed forces were on the side of the government do you think you'd win?

Thirdly, if the police and/or army or part thereof sided with the people, couldn't you just use their armaments anyway? If I was part of a real rebellion fighting against regular army troops I'd be using one of their assault rifles first chance I could get my hands on one.

 

[Poker_Babe]

which condemned torture

That's a good thing isn't it?!?!

Yeah, so? I was just noting the quote was from an 18th Century Italian.

He also condemned the death penalty, that's a good thing too.

LOL, OK, I wasn't quite sure what you where getting at. Death penalty... errrr... I guess I've always been "on the fence" when it comes to that issue. But I've been leaning more and more towards being against it as I grow older.