Transgender models can't get verified here?

[msc_tng]

I was looking to get verified here to take a look at model only section for useful tips and advice, but I came across this:

Male and [b]Transgender models[/b]:
1. Please accept my apologies, but only female models who can verify their accounts are accepted at this time. You're still very welcomed to post in the public sections of this forum and I guarantee there is still a LOT of great info to be found without having access to the private section. If ACF changes this policy, or creates a section for Male and Transgender models, I will update this section with information on how to verify. Thank you for understanding!

This is kind of disappointing. I'm a cam girl, I'm female (legally too), and I happen to be transgender (mtf). I don't understand why trans women can't have access to models section. I mean, I'm used to discrimination, but I wasn't expecting it on a community forum for cam girls. It seems unnecessary :\

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I understand that there's an "issue" with some knowing what camgirls post (mainly since some personal stuff has been brought out...but I feel like with the slight boom in male cam models, perhaps we could make a separate section for them that the female models could help with (?)

I get how they won't want to post in the members section for fear of being mocked, since that's already happened a few times. I just feel bad for these models. I feel they want the help, but they feel they can't ask for it. :/

I think if it were separate of the camgirls side everyone including camgirls could just contribute so they could learn, without the camgirls feeling scared of embarrassing things being out in the open (though personally if you don't want it out you probably shouldn't put it anywhere on the internet in the first place).

 

[msc_tng]

I understand that there's an "issue" with some knowing what camgirls post (mainly since some personal stuff has been brought out...but I feel like with the slight boom in male cam models, perhaps we could make a separate section for them that the female models could help with (?)

I get how they won't want to post in the members section for fear of being mocked, since that's already happened a few times. I just feel bad for these models. I feel they want the help, but they feel they can't ask for it. :/

I think if it were separate of the camgirls side everyone could just contribute so they could learn, without the camgirls feeling scared of embarrassing things being out in the open (though personally if you don't want it out you probably shouldn't put it anywhere on the internet in the first place).

I appreciate the response, but I'm not sure if we're on the same page here. I'm not advocating for a men's section or men's inclusion on this forum. I'm only trying to understand why trans women are being excluded from the cam resources here and being lumped in with men.

I understand the importance of protecting the privacy of camgirls on the site from men. But that doesn't apply here. I think there is something that needs to be clarified:

I am a woman. I am a camgirl. I am not a man. I am not a camguy. There is a very large difference between crossdressers/sissies/dragqueens/camguys, and trans women. Trans women are women. The others are men.

Does that make sense? I am a woman, legally, visibly, and fully. I do not want, nor do I need a "separate but equal" solution. There are large amounts of guides, tips and tricks such as for lighting that I am unable to access because I am not seen as a woman, even though I am.

I am a camgirl just like any other.

 

[NoelleBright]

I think this rule is only in place because it would be really easy for a determined individual with unsavory intentions to create a transgender account on SM/CB for the sole purpose of getting verified here and accessing the sensitive information in models only.
Crazier things have happened.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I rewrote this a couple times, and came back to it to make sure that I was stating what I wanted to state.

This issue came up a while back with a friend of mine who was a female - Mtf trans camgirl. I wanted her to be able to join, and she was not allowed. She desperately needed support and friendship from her community.

If i am remembering the situation correctly - there was a thread opened for discussion so that people could weigh in, it was talked it over, and overwhelmingly the opinions were exclusionary to trans females.



I love these forums. But I absolutely hate this. It's made me think about leaving them many times.... I still don't understand it to this day. I realize there were concerns about verification, and men posing as women to get in. I still think that there MUST be a way we could figure out to verify a trans female is not a man, pretending to be trans to get in. I'd be willing to work hard to find a solution. In the case of my friend, she had top surgery. I had met her in person, seen her top surgery naked in person, and was very willing to vouch for her. And she was still excluded.


I wish you could join, and I wish that the policy would be reconsidered. I understand that there may be situations arising out of people who are at the beginning of their transition, but if you are LEGALLY recognized as a woman there should be zero problem with letting you in. to do anything else is discriminatory.


I understand that this is amber's forum, and that she can run it however she wishes. I agree with 99.9% of what she does with them and i think she does an INCREDIBLE job building this community. I'm really glad she opened it up to discussion, and let girls weigh in. I'm dissapointed with the fact that this was the answer that our community came up with.

 

[VallieBeuys]

I think this rule is only in place because it would be really easy for a determined individual with unsavory intentions to create a transgender account on SM/CB for the sole purpose of getting verified here and accessing the sensitive information in models only.
Crazier things have happened.

This is true... But we've had problems with verified models before, who were born female bodied.

Trans women are women. They face the same (if not more/worse) dangers as cis women do, by getting naked and putting themselves out there on the sexual part of the Internet. I would love to see trans women included in the models only section.

Edit: Lolli hit the nail on the head. I love this forum, but I would especially love to see the discrimination against trans women end. There MUST be a solution to this!

 

[NoelleBright]

I think this rule is only in place because it would be really easy for a determined individual with unsavory intentions to create a transgender account on SM/CB for the sole purpose of getting verified here and accessing the sensitive information in models only.
Crazier things have happened.

This is true... But we've had problems with verified models before, who were born female bodied.

Trans women are women. They face the same (if not more/worse) dangers as cis women do, by getting naked and putting themselves out there on the sexual part of the Internet. I would love to see trans women included in the models only section.

Edit: Lolli hit the nail on the head. I love this forum, but I would especially love to see the discrimination against trans women end. There MUST be a solution to this!

I am aware of this.
I was just echoing the reasoning that was behind it when this discussion came up last.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I understand that there's an "issue" with some knowing what camgirls post (mainly since some personal stuff has been brought out...but I feel like with the slight boom in male cam models, perhaps we could make a separate section for them that the female models could help with (?)

I get how they won't want to post in the members section for fear of being mocked, since that's already happened a few times. I just feel bad for these models. I feel they want the help, but they feel they can't ask for it. :/

I think if it were separate of the camgirls side everyone could just contribute so they could learn, without the camgirls feeling scared of embarrassing things being out in the open (though personally if you don't want it out you probably shouldn't put it anywhere on the internet in the first place).

I appreciate the response, but I'm not sure if we're on the same page here. I'm not advocating for a men's section or men's inclusion on this forum. I'm only trying to understand why trans women are being excluded from the cam resources here and being lumped in with men.

I understand the importance of protecting the privacy of camgirls on the site from men. But that doesn't apply here. I think there is something that needs to be clarified:

I am a woman. I am a camgirl. I am not a man. I am not a camguy. There is a very large difference between crossdressers/sissies/dragqueens/camguys, and trans women. Trans women are women. The others are men.

Does that make sense? I am a woman, legally, visibly, and fully. I do not want, nor do I need a "separate but equal" solution. There are large amounts of guides, tips and tricks such as for lighting that I am unable to access because I am not seen as a woman, even though I am.

I am a camgirl just like any other.

Yes, I understand. Sadly I feel some others would disagree.

Either way I would like there to be a section for camguys/trans, and if so at the very least everyone could have that much.

I do apologize if it sounded like I was implying anything about your gender. I wasn't meaning for it to come off that way. I think the main issue with people is if we allow trans women then why not trans men etc. It's sad, and I hope we can maybe at least get a middle ground platform if you can't join Model's Only.

I agree with Noelle in the sense that it's not that we agree it's bad to have you or anyone else there, but it's difficult to get 100% of the Model's Only side to agree when there are so many years worth of posts. There's no way to sift through and delete or just take a vote when many models aren't even on cam anymore.

Believe me many would love for you to have access, it's just too difficult of an undertaking at this point.

Honestly I think a new Models Only for all cammers would be great, and allow a lot to get more organized. It would take some patience and may be slow at first but I think it'd be a great benefit for everyone in the long run.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I understand that there's an "issue" with some knowing what camgirls post (mainly since some personal stuff has been brought out...but I feel like with the slight boom in male cam models, perhaps we could make a separate section for them that the female models could help with (?)

I get how they won't want to post in the members section for fear of being mocked, since that's already happened a few times. I just feel bad for these models. I feel they want the help, but they feel they can't ask for it. :/

I think if it were separate of the camgirls side everyone could just contribute so they could learn, without the camgirls feeling scared of embarrassing things being out in the open (though personally if you don't want it out you probably shouldn't put it anywhere on the internet in the first place).

I appreciate the response, but I'm not sure if we're on the same page here. I'm not advocating for a men's section or men's inclusion on this forum. I'm only trying to understand why trans women are being excluded from the cam resources here and being lumped in with men.

I understand the importance of protecting the privacy of camgirls on the site from men. But that doesn't apply here. I think there is something that needs to be clarified:

I am a woman. I am a camgirl. I am not a man. I am not a camguy. There is a very large difference between crossdressers/sissies/dragqueens/camguys, and trans women. Trans women are women. The others are men.

Does that make sense? I am a woman, legally, visibly, and fully. I do not want, nor do I need a "separate but equal" solution. There are large amounts of guides, tips and tricks such as for lighting that I am unable to access because I am not seen as a woman, even though I am.

I am a camgirl just like any other.

Yes, I understand. Sadly I feel some others would disagree.

Either way I would like there to be a section for camguys/trans, and if so at the very least everyone could have that much.

I do apologize if it sounded like I was implying anything about your gender. I wasn't meaning for it to come off that way. I think the main issue with people is if we allow trans women then why not trans men etc. It's sad, and I hope we can maybe at least get a middle ground platform if you can't join Model's Only.

If we allow trans women, we are simply allowing ALL WOMEN not just some women to join. It has nothing to do with whether we should allow trans men in.


If we allow trans men to join, we are allowing men to join, (which would i assume also mean, cis male models should be allowed to join too)

That's the difference.

Lets say tomorrow I come to the realization that I'm now identifying as male. I'm going to begin indentifying myself as a ftm
ftm Trans male model, I would leave acf models only section. Because i would no longer be identifying female.


A new models only section for all models might be great. But it doesn't give a female who is trans safe space to talk about things with other females. That's why we love models only. It is safe space, for females. Unfortunately, it seems to be about the genitalia you were born with rather than gender for some of this community and that sucks.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I wish the amount of shitty liars wasn't such a large percentage over honest trans camgirls, so that Amber didn't have to make this really difficult decision in the first place in order to do her best to protect the women in the models only section. It's a HUGE forum but a small community run by a single camgirl and her husband, going through some big elaborate process to verify that a trans woman is in fact a trans woman and not just a very clever dude I imagine would take a crazy amount of man hours that are likely already stretched pretty thin for our gracious host and her fella.

Now I'm far from wanting to put words in Ambers mouth but I would think if you can get approved for MFC as a woman, That may make things different? Possibly? ... I'm not really sure though so I think this is a question? Amber?

I've known of quite a few MTF Trans women on MFC that were full post op.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I understand that there's an "issue" with some knowing what camgirls post (mainly since some personal stuff has been brought out...but I feel like with the slight boom in male cam models, perhaps we could make a separate section for them that the female models could help with (?)

I get how they won't want to post in the members section for fear of being mocked, since that's already happened a few times. I just feel bad for these models. I feel they want the help, but they feel they can't ask for it. :/

I think if it were separate of the camgirls side everyone could just contribute so they could learn, without the camgirls feeling scared of embarrassing things being out in the open (though personally if you don't want it out you probably shouldn't put it anywhere on the internet in the first place).

I appreciate the response, but I'm not sure if we're on the same page here. I'm not advocating for a men's section or men's inclusion on this forum. I'm only trying to understand why trans women are being excluded from the cam resources here and being lumped in with men.

I understand the importance of protecting the privacy of camgirls on the site from men. But that doesn't apply here. I think there is something that needs to be clarified:

I am a woman. I am a camgirl. I am not a man. I am not a camguy. There is a very large difference between crossdressers/sissies/dragqueens/camguys, and trans women. Trans women are women. The others are men.

Does that make sense? I am a woman, legally, visibly, and fully. I do not want, nor do I need a "separate but equal" solution. There are large amounts of guides, tips and tricks such as for lighting that I am unable to access because I am not seen as a woman, even though I am.

I am a camgirl just like any other.

Yes, I understand. Sadly I feel some others would disagree.

Either way I would like there to be a section for camguys/trans, and if so at the very least everyone could have that much.

I do apologize if it sounded like I was implying anything about your gender. I wasn't meaning for it to come off that way. I think the main issue with people is if we allow trans women then why not trans men etc. It's sad, and I hope we can maybe at least get a middle ground platform if you can't join Model's Only.

If we allow trans women, we are simply allowing ALL WOMEN not just some women to join. It has nothing to do with whether we should allow trans men in.


If we allow trans men to join, we are allowing men to join, (which would i assume also mean, cis male models should be allowed to join too)

That's the difference.

Lets say tomorrow I come to the realization that I'm now identifying as male. I'm going to begin indentifying myself as a ftm
ftm Trans male model, I would leave acf models only section. Because i would no longer be identifying female.

Exactly, it would be waaay to hard to decide the intentions for everyone. Well said Lolli.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

Exactly, it would be waaay to hard to decide the intentions for everyone. Well said Lolli.

I think you misunderstood me?


It's hard to decide intentions for anyone.
Any new model could have awful intentions for this place.

It is not ok to not give all women access to safe space. That's what im trying to say. And anything further that I do say will simply repeat myself.

If the community does decide they want to actively work on a solution to this, to find a way to include all women, I'm very willing to invest my time and energy to help make that happen. I understand that verification could be a massive task for amber, but there has to be a solution that does not create more work for her, and still keeps the control in her hands. I hope we can do better, and start examining the problems for solutions.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Heh sorry I'm not good with words at times, but yes, I believe I understood and agree with you.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I wish the amount of shitty liars wasn't such a large percentage over honest trans camgirls, so that Amber didn't have to make this really difficult decision in the first place in order to do her best to protect the women in the models only section. It's a HUGE forum but a small community run by a single camgirl and her husband, going through some big elaborate process to verify that a trans woman is in fact a trans woman and not just a very clever dude I imagine would take a crazy amount of man hours that are likely already stretched pretty thin for our gracious host and her fella.

Now I'm far from wanting to put words in Ambers mouth but I would think if you can get approved for MFC as a woman, That may make things different? Possibly? ... I'm not really sure though so I think this is a question? Amber?

I've known of quite a few MTF Trans women on MFC that were full post op.

I know post op is not a preferred term but in this particular instance I wasn't sure what else to use, so I apologize.

Yes, sketchy models happen and have to be banned, but allowing Transgender woman at this time would give a semi easy access pipeline for members to take the creep to the next level. We've had members go though some crazy efforts to get in in the past. It's not about keeping trans women out, it's about keeping men posing as trans women out.
That sucks and I think everyone agrees that it sucks, because shitty sneaky shady people suck and ruin what could be good things.

 

[Rose]

If I remember correctly, the determining standard for verification was whether or not you could cam on MFC. Since women are currently the only ones allowed to cam on MFC, that was the standard set. I have no clue if post-op (I have no clue what the proper terminology for this is) are allowed to cam on MFC or not, but if so, then my guess is you could get verified here as well.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

I wish the amount of shitty liars wasn't such a large percentage over honest trans camgirls, so that Amber didn't have to make this really difficult decision in the first place in order to do her best to protect the women in the models only section. It's a HUGE forum but a small community run by a single camgirl and her husband, going through some big elaborate process to verify that a trans woman is in fact a trans woman and not just a very clever dude I imagine would take a crazy amount of man hours that are likely already stretched pretty thin for our gracious host and her fella.

Now I'm far from wanting to put words in Ambers mouth but I would think if you can get approved for MFC as a woman, That may make things different? Possibly? ... I'm not really sure though so I think this is a question? Amber?

I've known of quite a few MTF Trans women on MFC that were full post op.

I know post op is not a preferred term but in this particular instance I wasn't sure what else to use, so I apologize.

Yes, sketchy models happen and have to be banned, but allowing Transgender woman at this time would give a semi easy access pipeline for members to take the creep to the next level. We've had members go though some crazy efforts to get in in the past. It's not about keeping trans women out, it's about keeping men posing as trans women out.
That sucks and I think everyone agrees that it sucks, because shitty sneaky shady people suck and ruin what could be good things.

Ok this isn't repetitive so here's some brainstorming on solutions:

One solution that I can think of - is requiring a form of ID to be sent it (in the same way that models submit verification pictures).

That way if you're legally female, you're good to go. This would mean you don't need to sign up for MFC - if your'e from a country that is not allowed to, etc. I would hate to have to sign up for an entire site i didn't want to cam on, simply to verify.. but would not see an issue with sending a copy of my ID.


For those unable to verify legally recognized gender, but have had some form of easily recognizable physical transition - (top surgery etc) a verification picture clearly showing that should be enough. If it's not considered enough, perhaps we have a group of volunteers, who are members of this community who agree to watch applicants on cam to verify? Or do a skype call verification similar to what cammodel directory does to verify its girls. They can then send amber a quick "I verified this model" note, and she approves them. I understand this isn't fool proof - and that it gets into a fuzzy area that would need to be cleared up on what 'verifies' you and what doesnt.

For models who may present male, but identify female, I have no good solution at this time to suggest. However, the two steps above at the very least would be some steps toward including trans females.



If mtf models who are able to cam on MFC (what are mfc's policies on this? female ID?) are able to get in, it'd be great if amber could ammend the note to clear that up.

 

[JickyJuly]

Like Jolene, I assumed this was an MFC approve-able kind of deal? Most of the models here have at some point been on MFC even if we've moved to other sites. When Amber uses MFC to verify models, that's a site she's familiar and comfy with. To use other sites to verify means trusting those sites too. A legal woman rule would mean checking real id. That would open up a whole new can of worms and liability. It would likely leave more M to F hurt feelings as well. I personally would not want anyone here sending me copies of their legal identification. I don't think anyone has room to fault Amber for not doing so.

I think we can all understand the icky feeling of being left out a bit. I can't speak for all of the girls, but I know that I'd love to hear about your experiences in camming. Welcome to the forum!

 

[MemberEd]

This is kind of disappointing. I'm a cam girl, I'm female (legally too), and I happen to be transgender (mtf). I don't understand why trans women can't have access to models section. I mean, I'm used to discrimination, but I wasn't expecting it on a community forum for cam girls. It seems unnecessary :\

I want to apologize in advance for my complete ignorance on the subject, but, if you are legally a female, why would you just not apply as a female and forget the whole transgender thing?

 

[WickedTouch]

MFC's Wiki currently outlines it this way...

 

[Rose]

MFC's Wiki currently outlines it this way...

But they don't specify that they don't accept those who are post-op.

 

[AmberCutie]

I am pretty positive that I've stated this in a previous thread, but I'll clarify. And I don't want this to sound matter of fact and blunt, but to avoid confusion I think it has to be stated that way.

If a woman is legally FEMALE and promotes herself as a woman on the cam site she works on, she's absolutely good to go. If the site she's working on verified her as female and she presents herself that way, I go based off of that. I think MFC was referred to before as an easy means to judge this due to them only accepting female models. If they can be approved on MFC, they're all set here! There are very likely already cam girls whom have been given model status here whom are actually trans, but were approved because they simply verified themselves with me and their cam site as a female.

I am not sure if anyone who hasn't been in my position will understand my reasons, but... It's almost a damned if I do, damned if I don't sort of situation. I cannot be expected to be responsible for verifying what people identify as. It's SUCH a touchy subject that I will not put myself in that position, so I go based on the technical/legal aspect of it as stated above. It's all I can really do.

The same rules apply to couples who are camming. They are not eligible to get into the models only section as a couple. If a cam girl sometimes cams with her man but applies to get verified with a solo cam girl account (actually has a solo cam girl account), she's welcome to, but she needs to promote herself as such.

I know there's talk of expanding into different sections for other cam models, and things could change in the future, but it just isn't happening right now, I am not looking to change the verification process at this time. I personally have no issues with the way a person chooses to identify themselves. Unfortunately there are ill-intentioned people out there who try to gain access to the models only section. I have to keep the process super easy and efficient. That means having pretty bluntly definitive rules that I have put in place. That does also mean some awesome people might get excluded. But I just can't invest the time required to verify each and every model in the detail it would require in order to keep the ill-intentioned folks out. It is basically only me running this, with my husband working on the technical and maintenance side of it. I don't get paid to keep this place going, it's done in my off time. So please, before people come at me with pitchforks, remember this is just a side project in a sense, and keeping the moderation and verification simple is what allows me to keep it up.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Sorry if I seemed pushy in suggesting it earlier Amber. I know you and other admins have a lot of work with the forum alone alongside other work. I didn't mean it in any torches and pitchforks sort of way, only as a suggestion for the future. I'm sure the others understand as well that it's far too difficult to create something like that in a short amount of time.

 

[Miss_Lollipop]

So please, before people come at me with pitchforks, remember this is just a side project in a sense, and keeping the moderation and verification simple is what allows me to keep it up.

Just to be clear, I am dissapointed in the response of the entire community, not yours.

Absolutely no torches and pitchforks directed your way

 

[AmberCutie]

Sorry if I seemed pushy in suggesting it earlier Amber. I know you and other admins have a lot of work with the forum alone alongside other work. I didn't mean it in any torches and pitchforks sort of way, only as a suggestion for the future. I'm sure the others understand as well that it's far too difficult to create something like that in a short amount of time.

So please, before people come at me with pitchforks, remember this is just a side project in a sense, and keeping the moderation and verification simple is what allows me to keep it up.

Just to be clear, I am dissapointed in the response of the entire community, not yours.

Absolutely no torches and pitchforks directed your way

My reply really wasn't aimed at anyone's post in particular, sorry if it seemed I was lashing back at you.

The pitchforks comment was mainly due to the highly controversial and sensitive topic, and as I noted the damned if you do/don't thing. It's a tough position for me to be in and anytime it comes up I really feel like I'm stuck in a conundrum.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm going to try and explain some of the reasons this might be the case, I have absolutely nothing against being transgender, when it comes to stuff like this I cannot stand it when people can't accept it so please don't jump down my throat, I'm just trying to explain another point of view.

I'm guessing a reason might be that even if you get all sorts of operations and you feel like a woman and obviously naturally had a personality that felt female, you are still the same person as you were when you were male. What you look like doesn't matter on a forum, it's about what's going on inside, and though there are hormones etc you cannot have surgery on what's on the inside.

It's like if a man put on a woman's body I still wouldn't be comfortable with him in the changing room because it's not to do with how he/she looks. I am not comfortable changing in front of my gay friends either while I'll happily change in front of lesbian friends. I'm not entirely sure why, it's not any discrimination against men, it's just how I feel. And a lot of people do feel that way. It's not their fault they feel that way, it's just how people can be.

It's such a tough situation though. I imagine it'd be very difficult for Amber to be able to monitor who are the genuine transgender models and who are just the dudes who like to dress up as women and try and dirty talk models for free in their rooms (it happens a lot). It's easier to have a clear cut rule than pick and choose. If a transgender model were let in then why is that fair when say, Deez for example, who has been a wonderful part of this community since he first came here and seems to have a genuine passion for cam modelling were to be kept in the public section? Does having a sex change give you that right over him? Isn't that discrimination too?

The dynamic of the models only section is nothing like the public section, and a large reason behind that is that it's all women. I do think it'd be good to have some more of the helpful threads available, and some of the support threads too for male and transgender models, but a large amount of what goes on in the models only section are really girly stuff, like need a womb girly. It's nice being able to talk about these things just with others who understand.

I think it'd be great if the world were more accepting. But I think this goes all ways. It's good to accept new people into your world and accept different dynamics, but it's also good to accept when people like to do something a way that doesn't necessarily suit you. Yes it sucks, but yes that is life. It's absolutely nothing personal. I doubt any girls on here have an issue with anyone who's transgender, just like we have no issue with someone being gay, straight, male or female.
Amber is already doing an amazing thing having created this forum and she keeps it really well maintained. The forum works as it is, I don't think it's fair to come onto a forum and practically accuse the site creator of discrimination in your first/second post because you haven't been instantly let into the private section. I don't think it has anything to do with discrimination.

 

[JaneJupiter]

MFC's Wiki currently outlines it this way...

But they don't specify that they don't accept those who are post-op.

I hope I can clarify a few things for you and some others about transgender stuff, please don't think I'm attacking you or anyone else, because I'm not A person who is transgender is ALWAYS transgender, there is no pre/post op distinction. Pre/post op is a hurtful and irrelevant distinction because there are many "ops" that trans people can have to appear different (top, bottom, facial reconstruction, adding fat, taking away fat, not to mention other things like hormones), and mostly because you don't have to have any kind of operation to be transgender. There are laws right now in places that say you can't get your gender marker (the M or F on your license) changed until you're "post op", and you can prove you've had that surgery. Well, the thing is many trans-women want to get bottom surgery, but not all do, and they're still women. With trans-men, it's even more difficult because less are interested in getting bottom surgery (one of the reasons for that is because the surgery is not very good yet, unlike the surgery for trans-women which is perfected).

Most likely, MFC does have trans models who have had bottom surgery and have their gender marker changed. It is technically against the rules according to that screenshot, but who knows if they enforce it or care.

I understand that it could be really difficult to honor people's gender identities on a site like ACF, but I really wish we could find a better way to go about it. I would hate for a trans girl with a penis in the industry (like Chelsea Poe) to not be able to join because she can't legally change her gender marker.

 

[Rose]

MFC's Wiki currently outlines it this way...

But they don't specify that they don't accept those who are post-op.

I hope I can clarify a few things for you and some others about transgender stuff, please don't think I'm attacking you or anyone else, because I'm not A person who is transgender is ALWAYS transgender, there is no pre/post op distinction. Pre/post op is a hurtful and irrelevant distinction because there are many "ops" that trans people can have to appear different (top, bottom, facial reconstruction, adding fat, taking away fat, not to mention other things like hormones), and mostly because you don't have to have any kind of operation to be transgender. There are laws right now in places that say you can't get your gender marker (the M or F on your license) changed until you're "post op", and you can prove you've had that surgery. Well, the thing is many trans-women want to get bottom surgery, but not all do, and they're still women. With trans-men, it's even more difficult because less are interested in getting bottom surgery (one of the reasons for that is because the surgery is not very good yet, unlike the surgery for trans-women which is perfected).

Most likely, MFC does have trans models who have had bottom surgery and have their gender marker changed. It is technically against the rules according to that screenshot, but who knows if they enforce it or care.

I understand that it could be really difficult to honor people's gender identities on a site like ACF, but I really wish we could find a better way to go about it. I would hate for a trans girl with a penis in the industry (like Chelsea Poe) to not be able to join because she can't legally change her gender marker.

Like I said, I have absolutely no clue which terminology is correct or how or when to use it. I just wanted to point out that in the wiki rules, they don't specify. I understand why some choose (or not) to have surgery, but if you have had surgery and are legally female and have female anatomy, then you could cam on MFC. That was my point, just in very little words.

If they had specifications in there that only women who are born with that anatomy could cam, well that would be another can of slippery worms. :? :shock:

I'm horrible with words, but hopefully some of that made sense. I'm making pancakes at the moment and am not sure if any of it does.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I think it's more than likely that there are a fair few transgender models on MFC, possibly some really popular girls, a lot of transgender women are really hot! It'd be hard to tell as plenty of models get surgery anyway.

I very much doubt MFC would advertise this though seeing as a lot of men would be really turned off by this.

I have seen one girl on MFC that probably isn't transgender but there was something about her face, physique, neck, hands etc that made me wonder. She's pretty popular and has clearly had a fair bit of surgery so it's hard to tell.

 

[Sansa]

Hopefully this idea isn't derailing the whole thread too badly but here are my thoughts.

There are a lot of threads where a new model comes in and asks something, and the vast majority of the time, someone tells her to join the models only section because stuff has already been posted there a billion times, sometimes links are posted but they only lead to the MO section. This is problematic because that means that there isn't any public information available to people who can't get access to the Models Only section whether it's yet or ever. Maybe this person isn't a model but is thinking about it and wants to learn more first, maybe the information would be helpful to someone trans yet hasn't had surgery yet or wants to specifically market themselves as trans, and of course anyone who is male (in whatever sense of the word, trans or not) who does camming.

Also it seems kind of unfair to transgendered persons to ask them to do things like show ID and whatnot. I can tell you that I would not be comfortable at all sending a topless picture of me holding my ID to anyone. Most who have been here a while probably trust Amber quite a bit, but why would they if they're brand new? And if a verification process is super detailed, it takes some organization (cough cough the government) weeks or a month to do something like that, and this forum is run by one camgirl. It's a thousand times easier for her if she can just verify people who have already been verified by another site as female.

Right now there are two sections where people can mainly post, the General Camming Discussion and Ask-a-Model. I think if we, the models, collectively helped out a little bit more in those forums, it would give a better sense of place for anyone who can't make it into the Models Only section for whatever reason. :twocents-02cents:

 

[weirdbr]

I just wanted to point out that in the wiki rules, they don't specify. I understand why some choose (or not) to have surgery, but if you have had surgery and are legally female and have female anatomy, then you could cam on MFC. That was my point, just in very little words.

Actually according to that screenshot, they do specify it - both in the 'gender' section (stating that they don't accept transgender models) and also closing the door for post-op transgender models by adding one detail under the 'sexual orientation' header, by specifying that they only accept "natural-born female models" (they probably haven't used 'cisgendered' there because the term is not as widely known).