Zimmerman Trial About To Commence

[Just Me]

Some people keep asking if the results of the trial would have been different if the races were reversed. In fact, that's where most of the black rage is coming from. So let's answer that question now, with a resounding NO.

How many of you people have ever heard of Roderick Scott?

I encourage you to read the article and not just the picture. The parallels with the Zimmerman case are amazing.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/490926/jury-finds-roderick-scott-not-guilty/

I think the issue here is, along with the kids breaking into someone's car was after this happened was Roderick had to stand trial to be judged without the need of anything happening on twitter or in the media. Zimmerman wasn't even taken in after shooting an unarmed kid and that's going to rub people the wrong way and that is where this story gained so much steam and so much press. If the son of a judge, who's best friends with a cop and all that jazz, it can initially come off as this guy got off without having to worry about going to trial.

This is only true if there should have been a trial. The original finding by the police and DA was there should not be a trial. Roderick's case should probably not have gone to trial either. Technically, no laws were broken in either case or at least there was not enough evidence to show laws were broken as the jury verdicts seem to show. The media and twitter attention forced a trial where there was not enough evidence of a crime.

 

[LioraVox]

Simply, Yes.

Why would you not feel threatened that a person was following you late at night? I would understand if they were walking in a neighborhood that was in an area that had a lot of late night traffic (its common to see people walking home) but I'm going to assume that they don't live in that type of neighborhood because Zimmerman felt that Trayvon was showing suspicious behavior by walking late at night.

So yes, if I or a family member lived in a neighborhood where it wasn't common for people to walk around at night, I would be very uneasy and on the defense to someone following me.

I would certainly be uneasy, looking for escape routes, have my phone out ready to speed dial 911. If I had some type of weapon I'd have my hands on it.
My level of paranoia would be proportional to who was following me an old black man or middle age Hispanic woman very little, a young black man a fair amount, and 3 young white guys in hoodies, a shitload.

What I would not do is turn and attack the person who was following me. More importantly the law doesn't allow you to use violence just because you feel threaten. Your life has to be an imminent danger and being followed is not an impenitent danger. Having the shit beaten out of you is sufficient so would being an fight with someone who has a gun.

That is how YOU would act in the situation, you are not Trayvon Martin nor are you George Zimmerman. The way you would react in a situation is not how everyone would react in the same situation. What you think should be the appropriate reaction differs person to person.

Although, by law using violence isn't allowed, if I was in a situation and felt that it was necessary to use violence to handle the situation the BEST way I thought I could. Then I'm going to use violence.

Black people in America do not have a luxury of walking alone at night without being profiled, or deemed suspicious. GZ knew Trayvon was black, he was also aware of the neighborhood robberies, he saw a black kid outside walking alone late at night and thought "He HAS to be up to something." And maybe thats why you can't understand how Trayvon decided that him using his strength would be the right action to stop GZ from following him.

 

[bawksy]

Black people in America do not have a luxury of walking alone at night without being profiled, or deemed suspicious.

And whose fault is that?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1330216

 

[LioraVox]

Black people in America do not have a luxury of walking alone at night without being profiled, or deemed suspicious.

And whose fault is that?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1330216

So you're implying that because of one POC actions a whole race has to be treated as though they are going lie,and steal and are thugs? Because that's what I just got from that remark.

 

[Bocefish]

Although, by law using violence isn't allowed, if I was in a situation and felt that it was necessary to use violence to handle the situation the BEST way I thought I could. Then I'm going to use violence.

I think that's where a lot of us disagree. If Trayvon really was scared, he had plenty of options from making it home several times over or simply losing the tail via running and/or hiding. There's no way Z could catch TM in a foot race if he wanted to avoid being caught. I think it's pretty clear Trayvon intentionally confronted Z and threw the first punch for whatever reason.

Apparently, he thought of himself as a tough guy...

Some of the earliest text messages date back to early November 2011, in which Trayvon, a junior at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade, indicates he was suspended from school for being in a fistfight.

Later in the month, on the 21st, he exchanged messages with at least one friend about an after-school fight.

One of Trayvon’s cellphone pictures shows two teens about to square off against one another as a third stands in the middle like a referee. Trayvon said he fought a rival who “snitched on me.”

Trayvon: “I lost da 1st round but won da 2nd nd 3rd.”

Friend: “Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting.”

Trayvon: “Nay im not done with fool….. he gone hav 2 see me again.”

Friend: “Nooo… Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?”

Five days later, he repeatedly appears to inquire about a gun with a friend: “U got heat??” Hours later he was asked by text: “You want a 22 revolver?” The friend who sent the message said it was bought by “my mommy.”

On Feb. 21, Trayvon appeared to be heading to Sanford to live with his father. But he hadn’t lost interest in guns.

“U wanna share a .380?” he asked one friend.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3 ... rylink=cpy

 

[LioraVox]

When put into a stressful situation your body will respond in two ways. Fight or Flight. Trayvon decided to fight instead of run away. I'm going to assume that GZ felt kind of bad ass too because he decided to go against what the 911 dispatcher said (even though he legally doesn't have to listen) and decided he was going to "catch the punk". Correct?

 

[Bocefish]

Well... to me, the thought of Z thinking of himself as a badass is a bit comical, but he could have been pumped up a bit from all the adrenaline between talking to the dispatcher and trying to keep an eye on Trayvon.

 

[LioraVox]

Well... to me, the thought of Z thinking of himself as a badass is a bit comical, but he could have been pumped up a bit from all the adrenaline between talking to the dispatcher and trying to keep an eye on Trayvon.

So because it seems comical to anyone for GZ to feel like a badass, it's less probable that he indeed did feel like a tough guy in this situation and initiated anything? A lot of people's opinion is that Trayvon is the agressor and the one that initiated the violence by throwing the first punch. But as far as I know, there's no evidence saying that GZ did not say or do anything to provoke such a response from Trayvon. *other than GZ story*

 

[Bocefish]

Basically yes, along with all the physical evidence. If you watched the trial, the evidence was mostly all in favor of the defense. The prosecution's star witness fell a bit short of being convincingly credible and may have recently admitted to perjury.

 

[bawksy]

$500 says even if there is clear evidence of perjury, the DA won't bring charges.

 

[Anonymous]

*Off-topic* Is that Christopher Wallace (The Notorious B.I.G.) in your avatar, bawksy, or someone else?

 

[LadyLuna]

*Off-topic* Is that Christopher Wallace (The Notorious B.I.G.) in your avatar, bawksy, or someone else?

With how often he changes his avatar, it's a good idea to put a screen shot of which one you're talking about

 

[SweepTheLeg]

 

[bawksy]

With how often he changes his avatar, it's a good idea to put a screen shot of which one you're talking about

Srsly. I see a funny picture, it becomes my avatar. That's about how much thought process goes into it.

 

[Nordling]

 

[Kradek]

Autotuned in 3...2...1...

 

[Bocefish]

:lol: She's about as clueless as could be comparing herself to Zimmerman. Another typical spoiled little rich kid that thinks she knows everything. Oh, BTW, Chris Matthews has already publicly apologized on behalf of all white people on MSNBC. :roll:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/07/19/chris ... on-martin/

 

[Nordling]

:lol: She's about as clueless as could be comparing herself to Zimmerman. Another typical spoiled little rich kid that thinks she knows everything. Oh, BTW, Chris Matthews has already publicly apologized on behalf of all white people on MSNBC. :roll:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/07/19/chris ... on-martin/

Nice knee-jerk reaction. Did you even listen to what she said? She was NOT "comparing" herself to Zimmerman.

 

[Bocefish]

:lol: She's about as clueless as could be comparing herself to Zimmerman. Another typical spoiled little rich kid that thinks she knows everything. Oh, BTW, Chris Matthews has already publicly apologized on behalf of all white people on MSNBC. :roll:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/07/19/chris ... on-martin/

Nice knee-jerk reaction. Did you even listen to what she said? She was NOT "comparing" herself to Zimmerman.

Oh, I guess she never said that she IS George Zimmerman and claims Zimmerman was indoctrinated the same way she was? That's as far as I got and couldn't care less what she has to say after that.

 

[bawksy]

lol

 

[Anonymous]

*Off-topic* Is that Christopher Wallace (The Notorious B.I.G.) in your avatar, bawksy, or someone else?

With how often he changes his avatar, it's a good idea to put a screen shot of which one you're talking about

I didn't think it was necessary to have to do all of that, since I posted that question 2 days ago, and he's been very active in this thread lately (so I thought he'd respond to me that same day). And I was referring to the avatar pic of the Black man's face all scrunched up looking mean...I'm sure he knows which one I'm talking about. But since he hasn't answered me, he probably doesn't know who it is, I guess. I don't think it's Christopher Wallace...just some dude who looks like him.


Okay, y'all can get back to arguing about the trial...lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Black people in America do not have a luxury of walking alone at night without being profiled, or deemed suspicious.

And whose fault is that?

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/1330216

So you're implying that because of one POC actions a whole race has to be treated as though they are going lie,and steal and are thugs? Because that's what I just got from that remark.

And he's the same person who, in another recent thread, accused Bocefish of being racist (just because he called the intruder/attacker an 'animal').....

 

[Nordling]

The avatar was made from a photo of a wax figure of B.I.G. Plus it was scrunched vertically.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I thought the President speech/talk was terrific, the best he has given in years. I listened to it twice and I think it was by far the most intelligent commentary on this whole sad affair. He even changed my mind on the wisdom of the "Stand your ground laws." Yes I know that was not relevant in the Zimmerman case. But the President is right it is relevant in the larger context of the discussion of race and the criminal justice.

I particularly like the ending.

And let me just leave you with a final thought that, as difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don’t want us to lose sight that things are getting better. Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. It doesn’t mean we’re in a post-racial society. It doesn’t mean that racism is eliminated. But when I talk to Malia and Sasha, and I listen to their friends and I seem them interact, they’re better than we are -- they’re better than we were -- on these issues. And that’s true in every community that I’ve visited all across the country.

And so we have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues. And those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature, as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions. But we should also have confidence that kids these days, I think, have more sense than we did back then, and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did; and that along this long, difficult journey, we’re becoming a more perfect union -- not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.

Thank you, guys.

The President and I are the same age, I even know a couple of his classmates from high school. I completely agree with the President there just is no comparison in the amount of racism, in my generation, much less my parents, and today's 20 somethings. It was sad to see twitter and Facebook fights erupt with one white (or mostly but does it really matter) 20 something accusing another 'white" 20 something of being racist. Personally, I think it is pretty presumptive for a white person to use the term. I am not really in a position to judge this change, but the President is and when he says the racial situation is getting better I believe him.

I also want to thank Voxelle for adding her perspective to the thread.

 

[Jupiter551]

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Jupiter just curious Who the hell is the guy and why the hell should we listen to this guy? After listening to him for 3 minutes it is clear he hardly knows the facts, I think he knows less about police procedure than I do. I mean guy, Cenk Uygur can't even keep a job on MSNBC, how pathetic is that.

 

[Jupiter551]

I think he got away with murder through a bunch of technicalities.

How so?

Can you specify those "bunch of technicalities" the prosecution failed at?

I'm beginning to realize why your government so easily disarmed you.

They didn't disarm me, I can go out and buy a range of shotguns (which can be then sawn-off), rifles the type of which served in several wars - both of which are perfectly capable of killing a man at short and medium/long range respectively - if I were crazy enough to go out and buy such weapons and shoot each other with them.

The government didn't disarm us, MOST of us recognised in large part that putting guns where unstable people can get their hands on them is like putting poisonous medicine where kids can play with it. Don't bother linking that 15 year old hackneyed youtube video originally broadcast by Australia's unfortunate equivalent of The O'Reilly Factor, and featuring rural gun-nut miniorities and probably about 50% gun-shop owners from all over.

I never said they were technicalities the prosecution failed at.

1) There were two witnesses to the entire event, one was shot and killed by the other.

2)It is logically impossible to prove a negative - therefore you cannot 'prove' what did or didn't happen in those moments. We do know however that witness testimonies dispute one another.

3) The self-defense argument is a joke - his wounds don't match those of anyone even CLOSE to being in danger for their life. That goes for whether theyre visible or not. He declined going to hospital and the EMT paramedics said he was fine and would be able to go home. Medical examiner testifies under oath that his injuries were 'very insignificant'. In other words, NOT the kinds of injuries that either match his story of having his head bashed on concrete 25 times OR any reasonable belief that he would have felt in danger for his life, and so much so he couldn't draw the gun and issue a warning to get off etc.

4)Martin was a few inches taller, and weighed about 40 pounds less than Zimmerman. One witness said the bigger man was on top - in the dark and lying in the grass it would be very easy to consider the heavier man as the larger one.

5) Zimmerman claimed he didn't know Martin was dead, and indeed the ME testified that Martin could have lived for up to ten minutes. Zimmerman claimed he spread Martin's arms apart 'searching for a weapon', but his callousness shines through in that even though Martin was obviously no longer any kind of threat, he obviously didn't even attempt to apply any kind of first aid or even take his pulse!!

6) Who knows what Z did in those 10 minutes while Trayvon was dying and witnesses were calling the police? Trying to bash his head on the pavement a couple times (but not deep enough to be convincing - hey, it's hard to really hurt yourself cos it fucking HURTS)? Headbutting a wall to break his nose? Who knows.

7. Why did Trayvon's hands have no blood on them or Z's skin under the fingernails? Oh because it was raining? but there was a photo of Trayvon's body at the crime scene covered by a yellow plastic sheet. Also why, in that case, did Z still have blood on his face, even in the rain? Was it because his blood came up to 10 minutes after the 'fight' occurred?

8)the DNA - this should have been a slam-dunk. How ironic that the defense kept accusing the the prosecution of talking about 'coulda-beens' and 'what-ifs' and then claims Zimmerman's DNA 'may have' disappeared from Martin's clothes due to improper evidence processing (how convenient). Then there's the gun that Zimmerman himself claimed Martin grabbed but then Martin's DNA mysteriously disappeared (but I believe Zimmerman's remained). And yeah, both of those 'coulda-beens' seem incredibly unlikely but apparently this preposterously unlikely story worked.
If the above is true then perhaps the real tragedy here is that Zimmerman may have murdered a non-DNA secreting one-of-a-kind mutant.




BTW HiGirls, Cenk declined change of anchor time on NBC, not really the same as 'can't keep a job'.

He's an award-winning journalist and creator of the Young Turks that have won so far in the last few years (this list is 2 years out of date):

The Young Turks has won the 2009 Podcast Award in the "Political" category,[25] as well as the 2009 Mashable Open Web Award for the "Best Political News Site".[26] In March 2011, the show won a Shorty award. In the 2011 Webby Awards, The Young Turks won the People's Voice award in the news and politics series category.[27]

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Jupiter just curious Who the hell is the guy and why the hell should we listen to this guy? After listening to him for 3 minutes it is clear he hardly knows the facts, I think he knows less about police procedure than I do. I mean guy, Cenk Uygur can't even keep a job on MSNBC, how pathetic is that.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTu ... ture=watch
Welcome To TYT (w/ Oliver Stone & Danny Trejo)
The Young Turks (TYT) is the largest online news show in the world, with over 1 billion views and counting. Hosts Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian break down news, politics, entertainment, and current events without scripts or teleprompters and without any corporate bias.

 

[Bocefish]

The self-defense argument is a joke - his wounds don't match those of anyone even CLOSE to being in danger for their life. That goes for whether theyre visible or not. He declined going to hospital and the EMT paramedics said he was fine and would be able to go home. Medical examiner testifies under oath that his injuries were 'very insignificant'. In other words, NOT the kinds of injuries that either match his story of having his head bashed on concrete 25 times OR any reasonable belief that he would have felt in danger for his life, and so much so he couldn't draw the gun and issue a warning to get off etc.

It's a joke? Oh really... Well, thankfully your opinion doen's matter one iota and the six jurists believed otherwise. Of course, you also have nationally renowned expert Dr. Vincent Di Maio's testimony which does matter. He testified that Zimmerman's head injuries were consistent with Z's account of events and that such head injuries can be very dangerous.

Martin was a few inches taller, and weighed about 40 pounds less than Zimmerman. One witness said the bigger man was on top - in the dark and lying in the grass it would be very easy to consider the heavier man as the larger one.

Nationally renowned expert Di Maio testified evidence supports George Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin was on top of him when Zimmerman fired the shot that claimed Trayvon's life. Other witnesses also believed Travon was on top.

Zimmerman claimed he didn't know Martin was dead, and indeed the ME testified that Martin could have lived for up to ten minutes. Zimmerman claimed he spread Martin's arms apart 'searching for a weapon', but his callousness shines through in that even though Martin was obviously no longer any kind of threat, he obviously didn't even attempt to apply any kind of first aid or even take his pulse!!

After just being in a fight their life, exactly how many people do you know that immediately went into rendering first aid to the person that was just trying to kill them? Once again, nationally renowned expert Di Maio testified that Trayvon lived no more than three minutes after the shooting and probably was conscious for at least 10 to15 seconds.

Who knows what Z did in those 10 minutes while Trayvon was dying and witnesses were calling the police? Trying to bash his head on the pavement a couple times (but not deep enough to be convincing - hey, it's hard to really hurt yourself cos it fucking HURTS)? Headbutting a wall to break his nose? Who knows.

Not deep enough to be convincing? Since when are you a medical expert on head wounds and where are you getting that Z had 10 minutes after the shooting? Police arrived within two minutes of the shooting. Facts matter.

Timeline:

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.
7:17 — The first officer on the scene, Officer T. Smith arrives by squad car at Retreat View.
7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at the crime scene.
7:19:07 — Photo taken of Zimmerman's head injuries by a civilian bystander.

Why did Trayvon's hands have no blood on them or Z's skin under the fingernails? Oh because it was raining? but there was a photo of Trayvon's body at the crime scene covered by a yellow plastic sheet. Also why, in that case, did Z still have blood on his face, even in the rain? Was it because his blood came up to 10 minutes after the 'fight' occurred?

Unlike someone shot through the heart, Z kept bleeding due to his heart pumping blood through his injuries. There are also several photos Of Trayvon's body without the yellow sheet covering his body... who knows how long his body laid there uncovered in the rain.

the DNA - this should have been a slam-dunk. How ironic that the defense kept accusing the the prosecution of talking about 'coulda-beens' and 'what-ifs' and then claims Zimmerman's DNA 'may have' disappeared from Martin's clothes due to improper evidence processing (how convenient). Then there's the gun that Zimmerman himself claimed Martin grabbed but then Martin's DNA mysteriously disappeared (but I believe Zimmerman's remained). And yeah, both of those 'coulda-beens' seem incredibly unlikely but apparently this preposterously unlikely story worked.
If the above is true then perhaps the real tragedy here is that Zimmerman may have murdered a non-DNA secreting one-of-a-kind mutant.

It doesn't matter that Trayvon's DNA wasn't found on Z's clothing. ALL the other evidence supports Trayvon was on top. As to there being no DNA of TM's on the gun, that proves exactly nothing. You can find all of Dr. Di Maio's testiomony at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWeBbnqBnI

 

[bawksy]

3) The self-defense argument is a joke - his wounds don't match those of anyone even CLOSE to being in danger for their life

Your understanding of self defense laws is a joke. Although being wounded may help convince a jury, you don't actually need to have even a single scratch on you in order to be able to fear for your life.

Every single thing you post makes you look even more ignorant. I thought you hit rock bottom before the verdict, but apparently, this pit into which you're digging yourself is bottomless.