Legality of pre-recorded cam shows?

[Whatman]

On Streamate, there's at least an entire page's worth of "live" cams that actually comprise pre-recorded footage, typically of pornstars. Isn't this technically illegal, being that Streamate is advertised as a live cam site? It wouldn't bother me as much if there was some indication of the room being "fake" (like a different-colored thumbnail banner, perhaps), but there's no such thing.

 

[Sansa]

The pre-recorded shows are a huge issue on Streamate right now, it's awful.

I don't really know what could be done exactly from a legal perspective, but for someone to attempt to sell what advertised as a live show when it very clearly is not is absolutely a scam. If these are meant to be previews, they should be advertised as such, not as an actual live cam.

That said, I do not think that SM is purposefully running these fake cam shows. There are entire websites out there of people who pay for packaged videos and photos of models, some of it is capped without the model or porn star even knowing, and these people run this footage with edits to make it seem like it's a live cam for the sake of easy money. It's much easier for someone to run a fake stream for 14 hours a day (some of these run for over 20 hours a day!) than to actually stream for that amount of time.

I really wish SM would do something about it. If you're a member, by all means report every one of those fake live accounts. Some other models and I have been reporting these accounts, sometimes they get taken down, but often enough they do not. Maybe it would be different if it came from a member account.

Sorry you're having that experience though, and hopefully you can find some models to your liking that do actually run a live stream.

 

[melanieoncam]

SM has to know about it. I read somewhere that it's some sort of marketing experiment.

It blows my mind that it's allowed and makes me really angry.

As a host that gives full attention to paying members I feel insulted that they allow viewers to think they are interacting with a real person. I feel like it's a slap in the face to those of us who want to be sure our viewers enjoy their time and have fun.

 

[SaffronBurke]

There are pre-recorded streams that have been reported dozens of times without being taken down, so either it's allowed or they don't care.

 

[SMuser69]

SM has to know about it. I read somewhere that it's some sort of marketing experiment.

It blows my mind that it's allowed and makes me really angry.

As a host that gives full attention to paying members I feel insulted that they allow viewers to think they are interacting with a real person. I feel like it's a slap in the face to those of us who want to be sure our viewers enjoy their time and have fun.

All sites experiment with this unfortunately because if they can gain money without having to pay models it's better for business. Some of these accounts on SM are untouchable because they are operated by literal business partners for SM itself, I've even had support confirm this a few times. Like someone else has said it's ones that use pornstars. If you spend money on them SM support just gives you the credit back with some extra and considers it closed.

 

[Emberblaze]

Can you guys complain to SM about this stuff?

Don't just report them to SM. But maybe as members write something well written about how this damages the integrity of their site to see these things being advertised as live when they are not?

I hope that maybe if they recieve enough of this they can make changes and advertise them as being "pre-recorded, high rated* Shows or something. They can spin it like "this show was so hot and if you missed it the first time we have it available for you again."

 

[Sillykitty]

I have an irl friend who I knew before camming who was also a member on sm. He reported a few of these, after paying for gold shows or privates and realizing they were pre recorded feeds. He asked for his money back, got a refund, then sm banned him. This was a few years ago, too.

It always rubbed me the wrong way that they would ban a paying member who was just asking for money back, since he paid for live interaction and didn't get it... yet members who do terrible things can keep making accounts, or just get blocked from on models room, and they go on to be crappy to other models. (By terrible, in my case, I mean members who have systemic harrassment over separate accounts for months, or known pirates who were reported- yet come back with the same account and name.)

 

[SMuser69]

I have an irl friend who I knew before camming who was also a member on sm. He reported a few of these, after paying for gold shows or privates and realizing they were pre recorded feeds. He asked for his money back, got a refund, then sm banned him. This was a few years ago, too.

It always rubbed me the wrong way that they would ban a paying member who was just asking for money back, since he paid for live interaction and didn't get it... yet members who do terrible things can keep making accounts, or just get blocked from on models room, and they go on to be crappy to other models. (By terrible, in my case, I mean members who have systemic harrassment over separate accounts for months, or known pirates who were reported- yet come back with the same account and name.)

They probably didn't ban him JUST for asking for his money back. I've had to get refunds for various reasons over the years and even my entire account rebuilt and even more complicated issues (double billing, bugged exclusives, site itself going down mid show) without problems. I've even gotten support on power trips before that would make threats or 'decide' things about you instead of look at their own system logs. The only reason they might ban you is if you made yourself a threat, they weren't making enough to warrant dealing with you, something was suspicious about your payments or you were blatantly trying to offsite models. It's very rare a site will whole ban anyone they can still make income from they'll let a thousand models block you before a site would ever full ban you without real conditions. There simply too few paying members on sites in general to toss one out like that. It's like tossing a hot woman out a nighclub.

 

[Sillykitty]

they weren't making enough to warrant dealing with you

I think that is prob the case as he was only getting gold shows- which is still shitty and shady. Maybe he got a support person on a shitty day, maybe he was frustrated that he kept getting duped by recorded feeds. Unless YOU work for sm support, I dont think you can really know the ins and outs of what goes on, and neither can I. After seeing the types of repeated abusive behaviour that is allowed from members, and the fact that these recorded video feeds are a known thing, I wouldnt put them past banning a member who speaks up about it and asks for money back.

I'm glad you've had such good experiences with support. Like I said, this was a few years ago, so maybe things have changed. I personally love camming on the site, but I'll always call out weirdness when I see it.

 

[Sansa]

All sites experiment with this unfortunately because if they can gain money without having to pay models it's better for business. Some of these accounts on SM are untouchable because they are operated by literal business partners for SM itself, I've even had support confirm this a few times. Like someone else has said it's ones that use pornstars. If you spend money on them SM support just gives you the credit back with some extra and considers it closed.

The fact that they are usually feeds of porn-stars is a dead giveaway that it can easily be run by someone else. On some forum about fake streams, there was someone giving someone else advice that you absolutely need footage of someone waving at the camera, typing, etc. Many porn stars have done streams exactly like this. There's been a fake one of Lexi Belle on SM for a while and she's cammed before (on SM and MFC mainly I believe).

Example, this is Lexi's actual streamate account:
https://streamate.com/cam/LexiBelle/

This is a fake account pretending to be her:
https://streamate.com/cam/LexiHotty

If SM were running pre-recorded shows, why wouldn't they just have something set up so it can be on her real account?

Anyway, as before, I highly doubt that SM is running these fake feeds, however I do think that they let a lot of people get away with running them.

 

[SMuser69]

The fact that they are usually feeds of porn-stars is a dead giveaway that it can easily be run by someone else. On some forum about fake streams, there was someone giving someone else advice that you absolutely need footage of someone waving at the camera, typing, etc. Many porn stars have done streams exactly like this. There's been a fake one of Lexi Belle on SM for a while and she's cammed before (on SM and MFC mainly I believe).

Example, this is Lexi's actual streamate account:
https://streamate.com/cam/LexiBelle/

This is a fake account pretending to be her:
https://streamate.com/cam/LexiHotty

If SM were running pre-recorded shows, why wouldn't they just have something set up so it can be on her real account?

Anyway, as before, I highly doubt that SM is running these fake feeds, however I do think that they let a lot of people get away with running them.

I didn't say ALL pre-recorded shows are being protected by SM just a few. Yes there are also normal models that have had doppleganger accounts show up on them also.

Let's look at CarissaKiss for example. This is Cassidy Banks. This account's been on for YEARS to the point she's missing one of her more current tattoos. This is a fully operated bot that rotates a bunch of pre-recorded loops to react to what the member is asking for. If you ask for too much she magically 'loses connection'. This is one if you mention to support they'll give you money back but won't do anything else no matter what.

The worst one was the pre-recorded August Ames which stayed up months after she died. I remember reporting that one myself and still two months nothing happened about it. I feel horrible about her since people still using her blue checked twitter to tweet months after she's dead too.

 

[TokenGesture]

Let's look at CarissaKiss for example. This is Cassidy Banks. This account's been on for YEARS to the point she's missing one of her more current tattoos. This is a fully operated bot that rotates a bunch of pre-recorded loops to react to what the member is asking for. If you ask for too much she magically 'loses connection'. This is one if you mention to support they'll give you money back but won't do anything else no matter what.

.

The members on the whole don't seem to mind.


"Best show I've seen"

"amazballs"

"Great performance every time"

"The best. Hands down."

"Gets better every time."





Just the odd grumble but not enough to prompt outright suspicion.


"Fantastic body but doesn't follow directions."

"Excellent boo. Would have enjoyed C2c tho"

"Extremely hot and gets naked fast. Does not listen at all though, which is a shame."

 

[Lintilla]

I've gotten grumpy and asked support what software they recommend to run my own pre-recorded/bot stream, given that reported streams are not removed and that therefore they must be allowed. Only response I've ever gotten was "Thank you for contacting us. We have forwarded your message to the appropriate department. We will notify you when we receive more information." (Which is the generic response they give to every question they have no intention of answering.)

 

[Sansa]

The members on the whole don't seem to mind.


"Best show I've seen"

"amazballs"

"Great performance every time"

"The best. Hands down."

"Gets better every time."





Just the odd grumble but not enough to prompt outright suspicion.


"Fantastic body but doesn't follow directions."

"Excellent boo. Would have enjoyed C2c tho"

"Extremely hot and gets naked fast. Does not listen at all though, which is a shame."

This was something I'd pointed out to some other models, not so much the nature of the comments, but the fact that there are so many of them. 400-500. The vast majority of positive comments are fake. It's like pulling teeth to get someone to leave even a rating. As you can see, even on the real Lexi account, there are very few comments despite being a really well known porn star.

Whenever there's a bad comment, they're always drown out by pages and pages of good comments.

 

[JohnQ56]

So I'd like to add some interesting information to this discussion. Many years ago I discovered after having several private C2C sessions with these recordings, that they are all from the US, and all have the same set of operators at the keyboard. God I hope they don't share our cams with a call center.

Anyway this really bugged me, so I've been trying to find one of the models to contact about it. I recently connected with Jayden Cole on OnlyFans who had several loops running on Streamate on a regular basis. I started to ask her about it, but she then removed my permission to message her. Very shortly afterwards, her page was removed from Streamate. Coincidence? I don't think so. I have a feeling the models agreed to let their recordings be used as if live, and Streamate has to be aware of this, as I reported it many times when I first discovered it, and nothing was done.

 

[JickyJuly]

If SM were running pre-recorded shows, why wouldn't they just have something set up so it can be on her real account?

Because that would remind models that they own anything streamed there and tip them off that they're seen as disposable. Not good for business, and it doesn't encourage members to bother paying anyone either.
If they were pre-recorded porn being streamed without SM's consent, those would be pulled immediately. If it's not stuff they own, copyright problems. If they don't know the ages of whomever is on the screen, legal problems. Way too much risk for them to allow it. They have to know exactly what is happening. Frankly, from a site that pays models 35%, trying to cut us out even further is not a surprise.

 

[Lelo1]

Well they could get into a lawsuit over false advertising. That is if you can prove it's misleading customers.
But I think it would be hard to get more then you put in.
Lots of places have an arbitration clause. Arbitrators often cut down the middle. But they could opt to give you nothing as well.
Maybe if it was a class action, but not sure who's going to want to opt into that. If it was anonymous, so people don't have to have their name on a public record, you might get people to join.

But it might be hard to prove who was scammed with pre recorded content.
And it may be hard to prove the platforms is involvement & responsible.

 

[JohnQ56]

Well I for one was "scammed" with pre-recorded models several times before I figured it out. I have a list of probably at least 50 models that are always running on Streamate. I've reported them to the site, the models are still there after years. Also when I started to catch them by asking them to hold up a peace sign, I was blocked. Then if I went to another model's room that was a recording, I was instantly blocked without saying a word. So I know the same operator recognized me from the previous room. I've identified a few as semi famous porn actresses, and I've contacted one, I want to find out first hand from one of them if they know what is going on.. All are listed from the US, all of them have similar naming format for their screen names. Some are even using the same bedroom.

But it might be hard to prove who was scammed with pre recorded content.
And it may be hard to prove the platforms is involvement & responsible.

 

[Whatman]

This could be why adult companies never seem to go after people for things like fraud. Taking legal action would open a can of worms for them, since they're probably involved in illegal shit, too.

 

[recycle]

some of developing cam site are not against it , but most would not allow pre-recorded webcam shows to run . generally it's possible on sites with lazy admins who does not bother to check room before it goes online

 

[PandoraUnchained]

Lol I have a deja vu about people defending camsites as being above any suspicion being involved.

 

[JohnQ56]

some of developing cam site are not against it , but most would not allow pre-recorded webcam shows to run . generally it's possible on sites with lazy admins who does not bother to check room before it goes online

On Streammate, I'm convinced these recorded rooms (there are DOZENS of them) are being run or directly sponsored by the site. I've reported them years ago, the same models are still there.

 

[Herein2020]

I saw one at CB doing that - in small type it does say - taking a break - back soon - and its her doing a bj - and i tipped an others were tipping - it looked totally real. Needs to be live it taking tips in my opinion - on any site - that is what cams shows so great.

 

[JohnQ56]

Here is a small sample of recorded models on StreamMate right now... All posing as live. There are a lot more, pages of them..

 

[AmberCutie]

Lol I have a deja vu about people defending camsites as being above any suspicion being involved.

Deja Vu works in such a way that it is very rare that the thing you're remembering actually happened.

But in the case that you remember something, care to link to the post you're possibly referring to? Because early on in this thread, multiple models suggested that the cam site probably does know about it or encourages it.

 

[AudriTwo]

On Streammate, I'm convinced these recorded rooms (there are DOZENS of them) are being run or directly sponsored by the site. I've reported them years ago, the same models are still there.

They do. We used to have issues where these bot cams would place in contest until they removed all their bots from being able to place or hid their placement where we can't see (my bet)

We recently had a streamate rep grace our presence. @Crisss20 why does streamate do this crap? It ruins the integrity of the site. If it's for "marketing" why are these fake cams available also next in placement all the real models trying to perform and make a living.

 

[SMuser69]

They do. We used to have issues where these bot cams would place in contest until they removed all their bots from being able to place or hid their placement where we can't see (my bet)

We recently had a streamate rep grace our presence. @Crisss20 why does streamate do this crap? It ruins the integrity of the site. If it's for "marketing" why are these fake cams available also next in placement all the real models trying to perform and make a living.

I don't think she could answer with the true if she wanted to on this. It's no secret that ALL camsites would love nothing better than to get customers comfortable with 'virtual' models so they don't need to pay models at all.

What always got to me is how much risk SM takes regarding the legitimacy of their record system with some of these models. Michellemom (Now Michellemomx apparently) is Diana Prince that knows about the bot and doesn't get money from it and she's the reason it finally got banned in the first place and now it's back. If some DA took SM to court and had someone like her say SM is allowing fraudulent records it could put them in SEROUS Fosta/sesta violation. Because these account require REAL id and documents of an unwilling participant to operate, this is ACTUAL sex trafficking due to the identity fraud, not to mention probably also falls under revenge porn laws as well.

 

[dark_mermaid]

How can this even work on a private show based site like Streamate? What happens when a user starts a private shows with these recordings? And there are really recordings of currently active models there? Like in competition with them?

 

[JohnQ56]

How can this even work on a private show based site like Streamate? What happens when a user starts a private shows with these recordings? And there are really recordings of currently active models there? Like in competition with them?

Exactly my point. There are "operators" running the rooms, typing responses, no audio other than music in the rooms however. Some even offer C2C. I wouldn't want to be a live model competing with a recording at very low prices per min.

 

[dark_mermaid]

My mind is blown.