A model seeking love and a future with a client? Or a manipulative romance scammer? One year anniversary! Ideas and impressions sought, please.

[Omne35]

Well, to comment on some of the conjecture...I'm not a social misfit or desperado. And actually, I'm not even typically gullible. So if anyone is actually interested (and not just trying to get comic relief out of another idiot wasting time and money or getting duped): The situation began in a low-key way but I was probably more vulnerable to going down the rabbit hole because of situational factors in my life at the time. But also, not to minimize: I enjoyed talking to this woman; we had many good conversations about a lot of topics. Suspicions kicked in once she began to introduce the "romance" angle but you know...it's not always that easy to accept someone is feigning their feelings after some time has passed. And things that are red flags in hindsight...well, sometimes you're puzzled at the time but want to lean towards believing. It's funny that some of the people responding act like a guy would have to be really pathological to fall prey. I think the pathological part would be valid if I were digging in and arguing that the situation was real.

I think the issue is someone thinking they are in a love relationship with someone:

they have never met;

know nothing about their everyday life;

know nothing about their background;

have never seen them in anything other than an artificial atmosphere on a camera;

realistically know next to nothing about their personality other than what they want to project.

In short it's being in love with a relative stranger and just a small step above being in love with a celebrity they've never met.

In real life you see them in different situations, you meet their friends and family, you see them under stress and dealing with everyday issues. You learn about them. You're not projecting 95% of the relationship. It's almost like the movie Lars and the Real Girl(great movie by the way).

The discussion broadened beyond you to love scams in general. If you read the threads on here you'll see why the word pathological fits some of them.

 

[misterical]

I think the issue is someone thinking they are in a love relationship with someone:

they have never met;

know nothing about their everyday life;

know nothing about their background;

In fairness to OP, this is the essence of the love scam. Rightly or wrongly, he's been led to believe that he does know everything about her everyday life and background.

I feel a bit for the OP. I think it's inevitable that people's lives become intertwined on cam sites, particularly if you are visiting someone for a year. I think where it starts to fall over is when you start paying for things outside of the standard suite of services on offer on a cam site. As long as you stick with the tip menu then nobody is getting swindled. Gifts? Maybe from time to time if the model is happy with that but it sounds like she was driving the gifts and reading between the lines, the gifts were largely financial.

Personally I think it's a tragic tale all round, both for her and him. It sucks to realise you've been duped but it must also suck to be trying to eak a living in an internationally isolated Russia.

The part that I find unforgivable from his perspective is that he suspected it was a swizz and kept coming back for more.

 

[JohnOfC]

If I understand correctly, a love-conn becomes a bloodbath when the client finds out he is being cheated, at the moment he is still in the love-conn he is happy.
Beyond the aspect of finacial exploitation.
Maybe George would like to tell us how much he spent on that girl?
I have seen amounts of $120000, which is quite a lot but not insurmountable.

 

[Omne35]

In fairness to OP, this is the essence of the love scam. Rightly or wrongly, he's been led to believe that he does know everything about her everyday life and background.

I feel a bit for the OP. I think it's inevitable that people's lives become intertwined on cam sites, particularly if you are visiting someone for a year. I think where it starts to fall over is when you start paying for things outside of the standard suite of services on offer on a cam site. As long as you stick with the tip menu then nobody is getting swindled. Gifts? Maybe from time to time if the model is happy with that but it sounds like she was driving the gifts and reading between the lines, the gifts were largely financial.

Personally I think it's a tragic tale all round, both for her and him. It sucks to realise you've been duped but it must also suck to be trying to eak a living in an internationally isolated Russia.

The part that I find unforgivable from his perspective is that he suspected it was a swizz and kept coming back for more.

As I said the discussion reached beyond the op into general scams. I wasn't specifically targeting him.

 

[bud9752]

 

[inertvolcano]

This forum and the podcast episode that Miss_Lollipop recommended a while back (Pick Me Up I'm Scared ep. 44 "Love Fraud Island") got me interested in love cons and scams more generally so I went down a rabbit hole and have been reading and learning about them. One thing that's interesting is that it's estimated that only 15% of all scams/cons get reported to authorities. The reason? We (societally) tell the victims that it's their own fault for getting scammed, so there's a lot of embarrassment and shame that goes with it, which then discourages reporting or looking for help. We, and they, believe they were too stupid or it was some moral failing on their part that they got scammed. So they don't tell anyone. Sometimes not even their own families or friends. It must be very lonely.

You'd think from this forum that it's only emotionally damaged horny old men who get love conned, but when you look into the larger world of romance scams it's actually thought that older single women who are primarily victimized. It takes place on dating sites mostly, but the tactics are often the same. I love you, I love you. By the way I need money for this urgent thing. Sorry we can't meet in person I have all these reasons why I can't. My bet is that it's more evenly distributed than that, but the circumstances under which it happens are more embarrassing to men so it only gets reported to ACF and the stories don't get wider coverage.

But ultimately scammers and con artists are preying on people who are vulnerable - mentally, emotionally, and financially. They take that vulnerability, offer a bit of hope - hope that you'll find love, hope that your financial troubles are finally at an end - and then rinse people over it. Learning more about the different types of scams, hearing people's stories, made me a lot more sympathetic and has changed my perspective on whether the victims are to blame for what happened. I don't think they are, and I think it's the Just World Fallacy in play and wanting to believe "well that would never happen to me because I'm too smart/good/cool."

George, there's an organization called Scam Survivors that offers support for people who have been scammed under these circumstances, and you might find more of what you're looking for with them. I've checked out their forums and the interface is pretty rough but if you're looking for sympathetic people to vent to that might be a good place for it. Good luck.

 

[JohnOfC]

Im sure some studio's doing this at myfreecams, i now some rooms ... , and of course the girls get forced.
What happens next when multiple people report the account, the account gets banned so the girl is screwed, and the studio just moves on to the next girl

That's fucking sad, not only George is fooled also the girl, the studios that do this get away with it, I think that's fucking bad, some girl told me cut off 70% for studio so customer pay 100 dollars myfreecams take 50% of that and then the studio 70% what remains 35 dollars for the girl

 

[JohnOfC]

I talked to the girl George, she just responded to your questions and answers.
You got yourself into this, she's selling fantasies, You paid her a lot, so she did her best.

 

[misterical]

I talked to the girl George, she just responded to your questions and answers.
You got yourself into this, she's selling fantasies, You paid her a lot, so she did her best.

How did you find the girl to talk to her? Was it even your place to do so? George's mess to sort out would be my thought. If you're not careful, you'll end up feeling sorry for her and be on the hook for a prosthetic leg for her hamster.

 

[AmberCutie]

I talked to the girl George, she just responded to your questions and answers.
You got yourself into this, she's selling fantasies, You paid her a lot, so she did her best.

Yeah this is just weird. Did you only sign up at my forum to pester this person?

 

[RuthStrawberryblonde]

I'm wondering could love letters be cut and paste templates?

 

[Omne35]

I'm wondering could love letters be cut and paste templates?

Easily

 

[misterical]

Yeah this is just weird. Did you only sign up at my forum to pester this person?

Yep. Turned up, only interested in this thread, highly critical of OP, contacted the model (allegedly). Troll in many ways.

 

[JohnOfC]

Well I don't want to attack OP, I gave him good advice, I told him to break all contact with her and leave.
I wanted to know exactly what happened, what turns out both were hurt by the whole thing, just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

 

[misterical]

Well I don't want to attack OP, I gave him good advice, I told him to break all contact with her and leave.
I wanted to know exactly what happened, what turns out both were hurt by the whole thing, just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Yeah, but if you contacted the model directly then you overstepped the mark in my opinion (and probably the opinion of others). Curiosity doesn't give you the right to interfere.

 

[MarieElise]

I'm gonna assume these 2 users privately messaged a bunch because I don't see how the model's name would be known otherwise. Unless I'm missing something here?

 

[AmberCutie]

I'm gonna assume these 2 users privately messaged a bunch because I don't see how the model's name would be known otherwise. Unless I'm missing something here?

 

[Maxi]

Yeah, all a bit odd.

*Slowly backing away…*

 

[MarieElise]

Yes 100%, it's gotten very weird.
Sidenote; I love that actor, he's so funny

 

[Ozzie_]

Well I don't want to attack OP, I gave him good advice, I told him to break all contact with her and leave.
I wanted to know exactly what happened, what turns out both were hurt by the whole thing, just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Did I miss the post where the OP named the model?

If he didn't name her, that some stalker-like shit, Champ.
If he did name her, contacting her and then coming back here to post about the contact is some weird-arsed shit.

Either way, IMO, not a good look for you

 

[misterical]

I'm gonna assume these 2 users privately messaged a bunch because I don't see how the model's name would be known otherwise. Unless I'm missing something here?

I suspect that they've PM'd and @JohnOfC has asked for the model's name. That doesn't mean that @GeorgeSpelvin intended for him to contact the model though. I can't imagine that would be something he would have wanted to happen. That's just level 100 fucked up shit. As if the situation wasn't embarassing or hurtful enough for the OP.

 

[MarieElise]

I suspect that they've PM'd and @JohnOfC has asked for the model's name. That doesn't mean that @GeorgeSpelvin intended for him to contact the model though. I can't imagine that would be something he would have wanted to happen. That's just level 100 fucked up shit. As if the situation wasn't embarassing or hurtful enough for the OP.

Definitely, I'm mainly just confused at this point, and just waking up. I do agree with you on those points though. Seems like everyone is kind of like what the fuck is going on here, and it's not just me that's lost. Weird.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

Well I don't want to attack OP, I gave him good advice, I told him to break all contact with her and leave.
I wanted to know exactly what happened, what turns out both were hurt by the whole thing, just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Umm....you're full of shit. And clearly a troll. You have no idea who this model is. If you do, go for it...send me a DM with one of her screen names. Or give me some info that shows you know her in some capacity. You have no clue what you're talking about... Also as to your comment, "both were hurt by the whole thing"...this is laughable as well. We haven't even ceased contact; we were on Skype yesterday. So you got your tense wrong, too.

Got to wonder what your bizarre issue is that you are trying to insert yourself into some situation you've read about on a forum, involving people you don't know...and pretending to have some direct knowledge of it. Unless perhaps you're her real life boyfriend...in which case I think she's got much bigger problems.

Weird.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

How did you find the girl to talk to her? Was it even your place to do so? George's mess to sort out would be my thought. If you're not careful, you'll end up feeling sorry for her and be on the hook for a prosthetic leg for her hamster.

Let me respond to this - for your benefit and others who are now curious about what's going on: 1) I have NEVER had any communication with JohnofC outside of this thread (no PMs, no nothing), 2) I have NEVER posted any of this model's screen names anywhere, on any site, let alone told him, 3) He very likely has no idea whatsoever what model I've been talking about - yet he has a very strange interest in finding out her name, and 4) Based on his fabricated follow-up "I just talked to the model; she meant this; she meant that; she's real sorry" -- he clearly has NOT spoken to the model I'm referring to...yet for some reason is trying to give some explanation for a situation he doesn't know anything about.

I think you either have a crazy person in this thread (and no...it ain't me...) OR you have someone with a weird agenda who has tried to insert himself into this dialogue. You all are the experts on this industry, so you might be better able to tell what motivation the guy has...

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

many other victims are assholes themselves

That's quite a rationalization. The fact is, you really don't know much about me. I gave a lot of detail about the situation...I was straightforward...I didn't deny the fact that I got emotionally invested in the person after awhile and I started to believe that the emotions and intentions she was stating were real...even though I also knew that it was all rather unlikely. Several factors: 1) Yes, I was probably more vulnerable to it at the time, for situational reasons, 2) She is really good at being manipulative (and maybe she's got a lot of experience doing this to others, after 4 years of working for Russian studios), 3) Even after I began questioning it (and arguments were even occurring), she "double-downed" on her stated feelings and intentions, 4) She was super persistent and after we started to talk on Skype video offsite from her apartment or even with her walking around in life (grocery store, etc), and not much anymore on sites, it became even harder to get to that point of acceptance of, "Wow....this is all a total put-on? This person is really going to these lengths for some money?"...lying so blatantly about having feelings for someone for an extended period isn't everyday, normal behavior. At least not for me.

In any case, "asshole" is a subjective term. The idea that most people who are conned in this situaion are probably assholes....that's just an extension of the idea that they probably deserved it. I don't know...seems kind of cynical. I could probably be called several names in relation to this situation but I'm not sure if asshole is the best label.

 

[MarieElise]

That's quite a rationalization. The fact is, you really don't know much about me. I gave a lot of detail about the situation...I was straightforward...I didn't deny the fact that I got emotionally invested in the person after awhile and I started to believe that the emotions and intentions she was stating were real...even though I also knew that it was all rather unlikely. Several factors: 1) Yes, I was probably more vulnerable to it at the time, for situational reasons, 2) She is really good at being manipulative (and maybe she's got a lot of experience doing this to others, after 4 years of working for Russian studios), 3) Even after I began questioning it (and arguments were even occurring), she "double-downed" on her stated feelings and intentions, 4) She was super persistent and after we started to talk on Skype video offsite from her apartment or even with her walking around in life (grocery store, etc), and not much anymore on sites, it became even harder to get to that point of acceptance of, "Wow....this is all a total put-on? This person is really going to these lengths for some money?"...lying so blatantly about having feelings for someone for an extended period isn't everyday, normal behavior. At least not for me.

In any case, "asshole" is a subjective term. The idea that most people who are conned in this situaion are probably assholes....that's just an extension of the idea that they probably deserved it. I don't know...seems kind of cynical. I could probably be called several names in relation to this situation but I'm not sure if asshole is the best label.

I took the asshole comment to be related to guys in the past that have come here and behaved poorly when we've tried to help them. I never took it as being related to you. There's been a pattern of guys coming here, venting, leaning on all of us for emotional support, then getting angry and lashing out at us. So many of us are wary in these kinds of threads. May I ask why you still talk and have contact with this model? No judgement, purely curious?

 

[misterical]

Let me respond to this - for your benefit and others who are now curious about what's going on: 1) I have NEVER had any communication with JohnofC outside of this thread (no PMs, no nothing), 2) I have NEVER posted any of this model's screen names anywhere, on any site, let alone told him, 3) He very likely has no idea whatsoever what model I've been talking about - yet he has a very strange interest in finding out her name, and 4) Based on his fabricated follow-up "I just talked to the model; she meant this; she meant that; she's real sorry" -- he clearly has NOT spoken to the model I'm referring to...yet for some reason is trying to give some explanation for a situation he doesn't know anything about.

I think you either have a crazy person in this thread (and no...it ain't me...) OR you have someone with a weird agenda who has tried to insert himself into this dialogue. You all are the experts on this industry, so you might be better able to tell what motivation the guy has...

JohnOfC is out of order with his actions here. I'll take your word for it that he hasn't spoken to the model in question which makes his insistence that he has even more curious. I'm not sure what he stands to gain from any of this other than attacking you.

Take care of yourself and don't let him insert his bullshit into the situation.

 

[misterical]

She was super persistent and after we started to talk on Skype video offsite from her apartment or even with her walking around in life (grocery store, etc), and not much anymore on sites, it became even harder to get to that point of acceptance of, "Wow....this is all a total put-on? This person is really going to these lengths for some money?"...lying so blatantly about having feelings for someone for an extended period isn't everyday, normal behavior. At least not for me.

I will say this - what you mention here isn't unheard of. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't. Sadly.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

he's been led to believe that he does know everything about her everyday life and background

This is mostly correct but the clever thing (on her part) was that this was done very gradually, over time. It was as though she were revealing more and more over time; allowing me to be part of her actual life; communicating in a wider range of situations and so on. I think this added to the illusion of it being like an actual long-distance relationship that was developing. But to your point, yes, the essence of her gimmick is: You now are part of my real world; you know my real feelings; and so on...

I think where it starts to fall over is when you start paying for things outside of the standard suite of services on offer on a cam site

It was easy for this to happen because even onsite, we talked. That was basically the essence of it. But over time - and I guess this is the strategy - she began to very gradually shift that into something with a romantic tone...and eventually it became a more overt concept along the lines of, "Yeah, I want to get out of this place and this work...with YOU." And then the communications shifted off-site, so she didn't have to give a cut to a studio.

he suspected it was a swizz and kept coming back for more

Yes, that's on me. I think there are three reasons: 1) Even if you suspect something, it's not always that easy to cut it off immediately because emotions are involved and you don't want to accept that a person could so blatantly and repeatedly lie, 2) It started to take on a quality of trying to "prove" to myself what was going on, one way or the other, 3) Even though I was wasting money, I wasn't hurting for money and so I wasn't in distress over that aspect

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

I addressed this in posts above. Never happened. I never communicated with this poster directly or otherwise. I never named the model, directly or otherwise. I have absolutely no idea what his agenda is for saying he talked to her. Unless......maybe it's HER defending herself indirectly? Wow....now that would be a twist.... But she doesn't speak much English and I don't think she reads this website. And even if she did.... Also I just spoke with her yesterday and I suspect she would have raised the topic... lol This is some weird shit, though.... Maybe the guy who posted that runs a studio in Russia? lol