Stoya has publicly accused James Deen of rape

[LuckySmiles]

I don't understand why people think approaching things objectively is seen as being sympathetic toward rapists. It doesn't automatically mean you're defending james deen or accusing stoya of lying by saying "Someone said someone did something and I personally don't know and can't say what happened"

that's just stating the truth.
The same way that forbid I was raped tomorrow I wouldn't want people to say "well she is a cam model"

it's the same thing...

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

I know I remember seeing something about him being accused of assault of some sort against women in the past, but I can't find it anywhere now. It was the first thing that came to mind when I saw Stoya's tweet.

I've always been baffled by why so many people like him, he's always seemed like such a creep to me. (For reasons like this:

I also remember seeing other women accusing him of assault in the past. I can't find it but I sure as hell remember it.

If Stoya says she was raped, I absolutely believe her. What does she have to gain from this? It's not like she doesn't know what kind of hate she'll receive from this. It's not like she doesn't know how many people will call her a dirty whore and a lier. It's not like she doesn't know how negatively this could impact her career.

I stand with Stoya.

 

[gudheadt]

i feel like taking a stand in this case is not fair for eighter party, because you are saying that with out Prove of anything you are willing to put a man that could just as easely have been innocent behind bars, with out a judge, with out a jury. or else you are saying that a girl is lying about a serius topic, and both of them are totally wrong... the best thing we can do is to wait for this to go to trail, and take it from there.

sitting here and fighting over this will not change anything but creat rift's in the cam community....

 

[LuckySmiles]

what's even weirder about the whole argument is it's tweets. Not saying this makes it any less a valid statement. Just that it's a weird world we have now...
But I could lose my phone in public, not realize it for few hours, I don't use a screen lock and don't even really tweet, and then finding some nutter found my phone and posted "fuck jews, gays, blacks, and feminists" on a twitter account and people who don't know me could believe they're my words because I disagreed with someone one time about something...
you know?

She can very well be 100% right and it's a terrible thing nobody denies that.
But that's why legal systems exist in the first place and rushing to judgement about anything is dangerous for anybody even when it's a sex crime or hate crime.

 

[Teagan]

i feel like taking a stand in this case is not fair for eighter party, because you are saying that with out Prove of anything you are willing to put a man that could just as easely have been innocent behind bars, with out a judge, with out a jury. or else you are saying that a girl is lying about a serius topic, and both of them are totally wrong... the best thing we can do is to wait for this to go to trail, and take it from there.

sitting here and fighting over this will not change anything but creat rift's in the cam community....

No one said lock him up and throw away the key without question so im not sure why you are even acting like that. You also keep saying prove it however as pointed out to you it's extremely hard to do that. Most cases are he said she said cases. Even with DNA proof (which in many places DNA labs are so behind rape kits go untested for over 10 years thus passing the statute of limitations on them) all a man has to say was "she wanted it," "she asked for it," "she likes it rough," or something akin to that thus making it almost impossible to prove otherwise.

Also what's proof to you? Her coming out about him isnt good enough for you, so is it DNA found on her instead? Cops looking into it? Him admitting it? Him being arrested for it? A judge finding him guilty? At what point is enough fucking proof for you cause as pointed out several times on this forum the amount of cases of actual rape that go unreported is astounding, the amount of the cases reported that result in cops even investigating it is even less, the amount of cases that end up with charges being filed even more less, and the amount of guilty verdicts is disgustingly low. So please tell us all how much you need proof to believe this. But oh my god one man out of countless others may or may not lose his job for one false claim so let's focus on that. Bull fucking shit.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

And y'all quit acting like this would ever go to trial with this "innocent until proven guilty" bullshit. You seriously need a reality check, all of you.

There's not going to be any DNA evidence to support her. They we're dating for a long time, all DNA would be dismissed. It's not like he sent out an email to one of his buddies the next day saying "oh yah, I raped that bitch!" ALL of this would be based on hearsay. So, fuck yah I believe her. She is my sister in this world, just like all you models are. If any of you claimed a man raped/assaulted you, I would believe you and fight for you until the very end, unless I had concrete evidence to prove otherwise.

WHY do so many rapes go unreported in this country every year? Because of the stigma surrounding victims causes over 600,000 rapes to be unreported. Because MOST rapes are committed by men close to us. Our fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, friends. THINK for one moment about how hard it is to prove that those assaults happened in a court of law. One of my long time cam regulars asked why neither of my assailants are behind bars. WHY? Because they look far more credible than I do in front of a jury. Why would I never take my rapists to trial? Because there is NO POINT. My case, like MOST others, is just a case of he said she said. No one would ever believe me over them. No matter how true my story is. No matter how true her story is. It's not like there were witnesses these crimes.

 

[Guy]

And y'all quit acting like this would ever go to trial with this "innocent until proven guilty" bullshit. You seriously need a reality check, all of you.

There's not going to be any DNA evidence to support her. They we're dating for a long time, all DNA would be dismissed. It's not like he sent out an email to one of his buddies the next day saying "oh yah, I raped that bitch!" ALL of this would be based on hearsay. So, fuck yah I believe her. She is my sister in this world, just like all you models are. If any of you claimed a man raped/assaulted you, I would believe you and fight for you until the very end, unless I had concrete evidence to prove otherwise.

WHY do so many rapes go unreported in this country every year? Because of the stigma surrounding victims causes over 600,000 rapes to be unreported. Because MOST rapes are committed by men close to us. Our fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, friends. THINK for one moment about how hard it is to prove that those assaults happened in a court of law. One of my long time cam regulars asked why neither of my assailants are behind bars. WHY? Because they look far more credible than I do in front of a jury. Why would I never take my rapists to trial? Because there is NO POINT. My case, like MOST others, is just a case of he said she said. No one would ever believe me over them. No matter how true my story is. No matter how true her story is. It's not like there were witnesses these crimes.

Im sorry to hear that happened to you

 

[mynameisbob84]

Until we know more, this may as well be Wargames. "The only winning move is not to play". Taking sides just doesn't strike me as helpful. Both parties have to be innocent until proven guilty. If accusing Stoya of lying about her rape to discredit her ex-boyfriend without even a shred of evidence to support that claim is wrong (and it's not just wrong, it's monstrous), then judging Deen to be guilty on the strength of a single tweet when we know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding that tweet, is surely also wrong. Anything else is hypocrisy. Conjecture is not a tool that should be used in deciding someone's guilt/innocence.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

what's even weirder about the whole argument is it's tweets. Not saying this makes it any less a valid statement. Just that it's a weird world we have now...
But I could lose my phone in public, not realize it for few hours, I don't use a screen lock and don't even really tweet, and then finding some nutter found my phone and posted "fuck jews, gays, blacks, and feminists" on a twitter account and people who don't know me could believe they're my words because I disagreed with someone one time about something...
you know?

She can very well be 100% right and it's a terrible thing nobody denies that.
But that's why legal systems exist in the first place and rushing to judgement about anything is dangerous for anybody even when it's a sex crime or hate crime.

There's also a valid argument that she may just be out and out lying. They are exes. It would not be the first time an ex lied about the other because they were pissed off about something.

It's been suggested this will hurt her career, but will it? She's no longer working for Digital Playground making porn, she's transitioned to directing and writing for magazines and blogs. This controversy would most likely increase readership from her articles. Imagine you're the editor of The Verge when she comes in with her column describing her rape. That's immediate front page right there.

For the record I actually believe her. But that in no way means I'm also ready to convict him, any sane person out there can imagine a dozen reasons why someone could be falsely accused of something. That's what the legal system is designed to, hopefully (knock on wood), sort out.

 

[gudheadt]

exactly what @mynameisbob84 wrote..

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Im sorry to hear that happened to you

It happens to a lot of us. I want no pity. All I want understanding. That this happens so easily, without a shred of proof.

 

[Teagan]

Until we know more, this may as well be Wargames. "The only winning move is not to play". Taking sides just doesn't strike me as helpful. Both parties have to be innocent until proven guilty. If accusing Stoya of lying about her rape to discredit her ex-boyfriend without even a shred of evidence to support that claim is wrong (and it's not just wrong, it's monstrous), then judging Deen to be guilty on the strength of a single tweet when we know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding that tweet, is surely also wrong. Anything else is hypocrisy. Conjecture is not a tool that should be used in deciding someone's guilt/innocence.

Agreed with we should not jump to conclusions however things like past instances and claims of assault along with his tweets can actually show a pattern of behavior so they should not just be dismissed either. It should be part of the evidence when it comes to almost unprovable cases like this. Many people fear coming out about their rapists for very valid reasons and that's compounded when celebrity status is in effect too. Lest we not forget Bill Cosby. It started with one women being brave enough to speak against someone whom to outsiders of that part of his life loved him. I mean my gosh even with him admitting to drugging women he still has people who dont believe he did it. And if 40+ women cant convince them of rape how the hell do some people think a porn star claiming rape would fair any better?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

So, fuck yah I believe her. She is my sister in this world, just like all you models are. If any of you claimed a man raped/assaulted you, I would believe you and fight for you until the very end, unless I had concrete evidence to prove otherwise.

Your thinking is completely backward to rational thinking and is one of the reasons so many men hate the uber feminazi's of the world. You appear to have such a bias toward men that you would completely throw out due process and the law. You even fail to recognize the basic tenant of our entire judicial system, innocent until proven guilty. The fact that you firmly state they are guilty until proven otherwise is just downright scary to think that even exists in this country.

 

[Guy]

Your thinking is completely backward to rational thinking and is one of the reasons so many men hate the uber feminazi's of the world. You appear to have such a bias toward men that you would completely throw out due process and the law. You even fail to recognize the basic tenant of our entire judicial system, innocent until proven guilty. The fact that you firmly state they are guilty until proven otherwise is just downright scary to think that even exists in this country.

She is just saying she would support other victims.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Your thinking is completely backward to rational thinking and is one of the reasons so many men hate the uber feminazi's of the world. You appear to have such a bias toward men that you would completely throw out due process and the law. You even fail to recognize the basic tenant of our entire judicial system, innocent until proven guilty. The fact that you firmly state they are guilty until proven otherwise is just downright scary to think that even exists in this country.

Why do most rapes go unreported? As I already said, it's impossible to prove in a court of law. Does this mean these assaults didn't happen? Does this mean these tragedies weren't real? The over 600,000 estimate unreported aren't real because? No. Just because there's not tangible proof, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's nearly impossibly to prove most rapes happened. Go sit on a cactus, I'm ignoring all your posts from now on.

 

[Guy]

Your thinking is completely backward to rational thinking and is one of the reasons so many men hate the uber feminazi's of the world. You appear to have such a bias toward men that you would completely throw out due process and the law. You even fail to recognize the basic tenant of our entire judicial system, innocent until proven guilty. The fact that you firmly state they are guilty until proven otherwise is just downright scary to think that even exists in this country.

"Feminazis" Do you listen to Rush Limbaugh?

 

[mynameisbob84]

Agreed with we should not jump to conclusions however things like past instances and claims of assault along with his tweets can actually show a pattern of behavior so they should not just be dismissed either. It should be part of the evidence when it comes to almost unprovable cases like this. Many people fear coming out about their rapists for very valid reasons and that's compounded when celebrity status is in effect too. Lest we not forget Bill Cosby. It started with one women being brave enough to speak against someone whom to outsiders of that part of his life loved him. I mean my gosh even with him admitting to drugging women he still has people who dont believe he did it. And if 40+ women cant convince them of rape how the hell do some people think a porn star claiming rape would fair any better?

The situation is fucked, for sure. I think the Bill Cosby thing is slightly different, in that there's so much evidence against him, there's been so many women come forward over the years with so many accusations, and even his own defence of said accusations has been damning at times.

I just think the most helpful thing the public can do is not to judge or leap to conclusions on such limited information. I think we have to hope that Stoya is given every opportunity to work with the police and that the police will do everything in their power to help her, that she won't be judged or looked down upon because of her profession, that her peers won't judge her or blame her, that any prior victims of Deen's will find the courage to testify against him, that she has a support group of friends and family who will help her every step of the way. As trite as it undoubtedly sounds, what we have to hope for most is justice. If Deen is guilty, then we have to hope that he is found guilty, that he's punished for what he did, and that he won't ever do it again. But there's no justice in deciding someone's guilt when we simply don't know what happened, ya know?

 

[LuckySmiles]

This is why people believe in out there conspiracy theories.

Ya know what would be a good way to take down what remains of the porn industry? Accuse a lot of those involved in it in rape and stuff, and watch everyone fight each about it and lose their minds.
While we're at it lets just stir the pots enough to get men and women to hate each other
Blacks and whites too...and whoever else can we get...really fuck up everything in the country

They'll be so busy arguing with each other they won't notice when we take away all their rights as individuals.

Divide and conquer is a real thing.
This thread is a clear example of how if that were a strategy that was implemented here, it would work.

 

[Serenity_Tam]

It's been suggested this will hurt her career, but will it? She's no longer working for Digital Playground making porn, she's transitioned to directing and writing for magazines and blogs. This controversy would most likely increase readership from her articles. Imagine you're the editor of The Verge when she comes in with her column describing her rape. That's immediate front page right there.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think this will genuinely boost her career. I wouldn't be surprised to know that the majority of folks watching her films are dudes and many probably think shes trying to ruin some dudes life. Even if she isn't in film as much she is still making her dollars in an industry fueled by men. James Deen has been one of the number one porn guys, she will no longer be able to hire him for anything. Look at the tweets she has received ... hell look at any woman who has said they were raped or assaulted who works in an industry that makes a commodity of our bodies - it is the end of their career. Even if you can make a little bit telling the story, the career is over because you can't tell the story forever.

As far as it being a Tweet, I think like many of us she just had an emotional tipping point and it was hit. I know I have sent out some emotional tweets without thinking just to vent. If she was planning on making the money on the story I think she would have sold it as an exclusive breaking story.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I just meant that last post on how nuts it is how quickly people start attacking each other, I obviously don't think that's what happened.

 

[Teagan]

The situation is fucked, for sure. I think the Bill Cosby thing is slightly different, in that there's so much evidence against him, there's been so many women come forward over the years with so many accusations, and even his own defence of said accusations has been damning at times.

I just think the most helpful thing the public can do is not to judge or leap to conclusions on such limited information. I think we have to hope that Stoya is given every opportunity to work with the police and that the police will do everything in their power to help her, that she won't be judged or looked down upon because of her profession, that her peers won't judge her or blame her, that any prior victims of Deen's will find the courage to testify against him, that she has a support group of friends and family who will help her every step of the way. As trite as it undoubtedly sounds, what we have to hope for most is justice. If Deen is guilty, then we have to hope that he is found guilty, that he's punished for what he did, and that he won't ever do it again. But there's no justice in deciding someone's guilt when we simply don't know what happened, ya know?

Thing is most people knew nothing of the Cosby stuff until the last year. Despite others claiming years ago he did it no one listened to them at all. He just paid them off when he could and others ignored the reports. No one wanted to hear it and many wont wanna hear it about Deen either. No matter what anyone says about him or any proof that can be brought up now. My point is though we dont know if this may be a similar instance where accusers have been mostly silenced in some way or too ashamed/scared/etc to speak out against him whether cause of who he is or the industry they are in or something else. We may never know the whole story of past victims especially if they signed gag orders for payment or something. Sad but true.

I also dont think we can just hope things go how they should for rape victims cause frankly hope so far has gotten women no where in regards to getting results. And as stated this likely happened quiet a while ago so most ways to prove it are gone and because they were a couple he could easily claim "she wanted it" and that'd be that. We need way more than hope to start getting guilty verdicts.

 

[SexySteph]

As far as it being a Tweet, I think like many of us she just had an emotional tipping point and it was hit. I know I have sent out some emotional tweets without thinking just to vent. If she was planning on making the money on the story I think she would have sold it as an exclusive breaking story.

Also, from my understanding of the mainstream porn world, it's a lot like camming. A lot of your communication with other members of your universe happen on Twitter so it probably felt like a natural place to say it and spread information that she likely feels will protect other women the quickest.

 

[gudheadt]

Also, from my understanding of the mainstream porn world, it's a lot like camming. A lot of your communication with other members of your universe happen on Twitter so it probably felt like a natural place to say it and spread information that she likely feels will protect other women the quickest.

i will say that a lot of pornstars have taking her stand in this, so its a good way to let other members of that community know about it. just like twitter would be a good place for any one in the cam industry to do the same, if this happend to them.

 

[JickyJuly]

I doubt she's lying. A lot of her work includes him in it. So, effecting sales of his videos is counterproductive to her wallet. And nothing fun can come from being the porn star who called rape. I'm not a fan of either of them so this doesn't effect my porn collection. Just an outside observance.

I don't understand why people think approaching things objectively is seen as being sympathetic toward rapists. It doesn't automatically mean you're defending james deen or accusing stoya of lying by saying "Someone said someone did something and I personally don't know and can't say what happened"

To me, reiterating innocent until proven guilty in a situation where someone is speaking about rape, though fair, does come off as skewed toward the alleged rapist. Even though innocent until proven guilty IS what every accused person deserves, in the case of rape, it's rarely proven. So, odds are skewed against the accuser automatically. In the case of a porn star accusing rape, let's be honest.... good luck. Since she's not asking for him to be tried in court, we don't really need to rehash how the legal system works in America anyway. She shared something. We can choose to believe or not believe.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Cosby drugged & raped over 40 women. Maybe the body count in this situation wouldn't have gotten so high if people weren't so quick to dismiss victims.

What if Stoya kept her mouth shut, then 20 years later nearly 50 women came forward as victims of Deen? Thats not how it should be. It shouldn't take dozens of women to prove one women's story.

 

[Guy]

There is a thread on reddit about this https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/3unkto/porn_actor_james_deen_accused_of_rape_by/

 

[Magnolia]

I just saw this too.
That makes two possible victims. :/

 

[LuckySmiles]

@JickyJuly I agree with how that applies in this example, and even the majority of cases. I guess I just wish people acknowledged the elements of danger in it without being judged over it.

I'm sorry if this is reaching but if you consider the instances of white women falsely accusing black slaves of rape after having sex with them in a couple hundred years ago the dangers more obvious. Of course the racism of the time is a giant factor,but it's a real example where a woman is more likely to benefit from accusing someone of rape as opposed to being shunned and even beaten to death for admitting the affair.

That's where generalizations get dangerous. People have died over it. It's a different time and it's a completely different thing but the blanket statements that all of us make here and there and that come up in this thread, if they're not criticized can get out of control.

 

[JickyJuly]

I definitely get the idea that generalizations are dangerous and agree there, but most women have nothing to gain from talking about rape either. We can say his reputation is going to take a hit whether he's done it or not, but she's not coming out of this unscathed either. Victims are judged just for being victims, for waiting to talk, for how they talk about things. Her family and fans will now know that she's been hurt. It may hurt his career, but it will certainly hurt hers too. And, that can be true of any rape victim who puts their experience out there. I guess that's the part of doubting rape victims that I never understand. If the motive is just revenge and you're crazy enough to be willing to lie about a crime, there are definitely other crazy ways to take someone down without sinking your own ship as well.

And... if he took her to court for ruining his name with false accusations would the same people piping up with "innocent until proven guilty" be saying the same in her defense? It just seems like a go to line that helps us all keep our heads in the sand when it comes to talking about rape.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

And I really don't know what white women falsely accusing slaves of rape has to do with this situation at all. That's incredibly far reaching, IMO.