AmberCutie's Forum
An adult community for cam models and members to discuss all the things!

102 year old man discussing English spelling.

  • ** WARNING - ACF CONTAINS ADULT CONTENT **
    Only persons aged 18 or over may read or post to the forums, without regard to whether an adult actually owns the registration or parental/guardian permission. AmberCutie's Forum (ACF) is for use by adults only and contains adult content. By continuing to use this site you are confirming that you are at least 18 years of age.
Status
Not open for further replies.
sweetiebatman said:
Thought i'd drop this video in, with dialects in mind..


This is where I'm from, Yorkshire and I remember my grandfather spoke like this as did the older folk when I was young. Its difficult for me to understand fully now but a lot of the words still survive, if not the dialect.

This goes back to what I was saying in a different thread about language. "English" as we understand it is not really a language until the 1700's and in different parts of the UK, different dialects are spoken and continue to be spoken/written

To understand English fully, and that includes the spelling you have to have an appreciation of history and that doesn't come form a 102 year old with a flipboard

Right, and a large amount of words in English are from Old Norse and Yorkshire is the prime example of a place where words most of us haven't assimilated some of the words that did/do get spoken (because vikings set up York as their capitol in Britain), many became part of mainstream English and relatively few didn't, but either way it's no one's business to adjudicate which of these words should be adopted and which shouldn't, or how they should be spelt/spelled.

Simply, no one has a right to change a language universally, especially one that is spoken internationally. When it evolves it evolves, but meddling in it is not only arrogant it simply won't work, you'll simply make the spelling-retarded portion of the world even more illiterate.
 
Jupiter551 said:
sweetiebatman said:
Thought i'd drop this video in, with dialects in mind..


This is where I'm from, Yorkshire and I remember my grandfather spoke like this as did the older folk when I was young. Its difficult for me to understand fully now but a lot of the words still survive, if not the dialect.

This goes back to what I was saying in a different thread about language. "English" as we understand it is not really a language until the 1700's and in different parts of the UK, different dialects are spoken and continue to be spoken/written

To understand English fully, and that includes the spelling you have to have an appreciation of history and that doesn't come form a 102 year old with a flipboard

Right, and a large amount of words in English are from Old Norse and Yorkshire is the prime example of a place where words most of us haven't assimilated some of the words that did/do get spoken (because vikings set up York as their capitol in Britain), many became part of mainstream English and relatively few didn't, but either way it's no one's business to adjudicate which of these words should be adopted and which shouldn't, or how they should be spelt/spelled.

Simply, no one has a right to change a language universally, especially one that is spoken internationally. When it evolves it evolves, but meddling in it is not only arrogant it simply won't work, you'll simply make the spelling-retarded portion of the world even more illiterate.


If i could like this a million times I would

There is an endemic lack of understanding about the rest of the world prevalent in the USA today. The rest of the world has little respect for the "power" they think they think they hold. It angers me because I love the ideal of the US but hate the way it has gone about its business
 
Another interesting video on the history of the English language. This one is dated, and far from complete, but in fifteen minutes, it covers a lot of territory.

 
Jupiter551 said:
Simply, no one has a right to change a language universally, especially one that is spoken internationally. When it evolves it evolves, but meddling in it is not only arrogant it simply won't work, you'll simply make the spelling-retarded portion of the world even more illiterate.

It is an American tradition.

Webster’s intense patriotism carried over to his linguistic work. Just as he wanted an America that was culturally separated from Britain, he promoted a unified American language independent from British English — the expression “American English” itself was apparently coined by Webster. Among his innovations were a variety of reformed spellings, many of which (“tung” for “tongue”) didn’t catch on; many others, including -or and -er endings in words like “honor” and “theater,” and “plow” instead of “plough,” are now the accepted American forms.
 
Shaun__ said:
Jupiter551 said:
Simply, no one has a right to change a language universally, especially one that is spoken internationally. When it evolves it evolves, but meddling in it is not only arrogant it simply won't work, you'll simply make the spelling-retarded portion of the world even more illiterate.

It is an American tradition.

Webster’s intense patriotism carried over to his linguistic work. Just as he wanted an America that was culturally separated from Britain, he promoted a unified American language independent from British English — the expression “American English” itself was apparently coined by Webster. Among his innovations were a variety of reformed spellings, many of which (“tung” for “tongue”) didn’t catch on; many others, including -or and -er endings in words like “honor” and “theater,” and “plow” instead of “plough,” are now the accepted American forms.
yeah well what you guys do with it is none of my business, but it will make it harder for your population to engage with the rest of the world. I know you guys don't want to hear it, but all empires fall. :twocents-02cents:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nordling
Shaun__ said:
Jupiter551 said:
Simply, no one has a right to change a language universally, especially one that is spoken internationally. When it evolves it evolves, but meddling in it is not only arrogant it simply won't work, you'll simply make the spelling-retarded portion of the world even more illiterate.

It is an American tradition.

Webster’s intense patriotism carried over to his linguistic work. Just as he wanted an America that was culturally separated from Britain, he promoted a unified American language independent from British English — the expression “American English” itself was apparently coined by Webster. Among his innovations were a variety of reformed spellings, many of which (“tung” for “tongue”) didn’t catch on; many others, including -or and -er endings in words like “honor” and “theater,” and “plow” instead of “plough,” are now the accepted American forms.

Just as he wanted an America culturally separated, he stood back as the indigenous people were slaughtered and then moved some vowels around and then coined "American-English"

Was it not Greenday who sang, "Don't wanna be an American Idiot?"
 
Jupiter551 said:
yeah well what you guys do with it is none of my business, but it will make it harder for your population to engage with the rest of the world. I know you guys don't want to hear it, but all empires fall. :twocents-02cents:

We have been doing okay the last couple hundred years with American English, and I actually want the American empire to end. I want to close the bases we have all over the world and bring our people home. Like many people here I am sick of our politicians playing world police. I am hoping as time goes on the old war hawks will die of old age, and not be replaced.


sweetiebatman said:
Just as he wanted an America culturally separated, he stood back as the indigenous people were slaughtered and then moved some vowels around and then coined "American-English"

Was it not Greenday who sang, "Don't wanna be an American Idiot?"

Most of the founding fathers were assholes who supported slavery and did not support the rights of the indigenous people. What they did was wrong.

Yes they did sing that, but the song is not referring to our method of spelling.

"American Idiot"

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind fuck America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along to the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.​
 
Shaun__ said:
Jupiter551 said:
yeah well what you guys do with it is none of my business, but it will make it harder for your population to engage with the rest of the world. I know you guys don't want to hear it, but all empires fall. :twocents-02cents:

We have been doing okay the last couple hundred years with American English, and I actually want the American empire to end. I want to close the bases we have all over the world and bring our people home. Like many people here I am sick of our politicians playing world police. I am hoping as time goes on the old war hawks will die of old age, and not be replaced.
Huge, HUGE difference between American English and what you're suggesting in the OP - kids educated in that spelling would be unable to read non-american stuff. Being independent is fine, turning your kids internationally illiterate is pretty stupid imo.
 
I'm just going to give my 2 cents and say I'm impressed a 102 year old man can use the internet, and other forms of technology to record and post this. My grandma can't even use a touch screen oven and during her frustration during such a high tech form of equipment has yelled "I don't know what i'm doing! I don't know computers!" So rock on with your old self, Grandpa.
 
Jupiter551 said:
Shaun__ said:
Jupiter551 said:
yeah well what you guys do with it is none of my business, but it will make it harder for your population to engage with the rest of the world. I know you guys don't want to hear it, but all empires fall. :twocents-02cents:

We have been doing okay the last couple hundred years with American English, and I actually want the American empire to end. I want to close the bases we have all over the world and bring our people home. Like many people here I am sick of our politicians playing world police. I am hoping as time goes on the old war hawks will die of old age, and not be replaced.
Huge, HUGE difference between American English and what you're suggesting in the OP - kids educated in that spelling would be unable to read non-american stuff. Being independent is fine, turning your kids internationally illiterate is pretty stupid imo.

I promise you I can read your foreign gibberish just fine, and I only know American English. I can also read books written and published in England. It is not that difficult to read more than one dialect, due to the fact you mostly ignore spelling without special training to check it at all times.

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

American kids would just grow up thinking foreigners spell a hundred or so extra words strange. It is not that big of a deal, and if you would stop insulting people less fortunate than you maybe you could see that. You are not any better than a person who can not read a single word.
 
Shaun__ said:
I promise you I can read your foreign gibberish just fine, and I only know American English. I can also read books written and published in England. It is not that difficult to read more than one dialect, due to the fact you mostly ignore spelling without special training to check it at all times.

American kids would just grow up thinking foreigners spell a hundred or so extra words strange. It is not that big of a deal, and if you would stop insulting people less fortunate than you maybe you could see that. You are not any better than a person who can not read a single word.
You want to change the whole language to suit some people and you call me a language nazi.

I point out that everyone can learn to read and spell, as they have for a long time, and you accuse me of insulting the less fortunate, yet here you are suggesting things should be dumbed down for the masses.

You dismiss cultural traditions as irrelevant and are snobby and elitist toward things you consider "artsy".

Even after all that I point out it would be a matter for your country and your people can do as they wish with their own changes to the language, and you respond by calling traditional English "foreign gibberish". Hey, here's something along your own line of thought: your opinions about the importance of language are no better than that of anyone else.

You're being imperious, arrogant and insulting. When you accuse me of "insulting people less fortunate" you can add hypocritical to that list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NoelleBright
Jupiter551 said:
You want to change the whole language to suit some people and you call me a language nazi.

No I don't. I just want it to be tweaked in the country I live in. Also you admitted you were going to sound like a language Nazi in your second sentence in this thread.

Jupiter551 said:
I point out that everyone can learn to read and spell, as they have for a long time, and you accuse me of insulting the less fortunate, yet here you are suggesting things should be dumbed down for the masses.

You said people who did not learn your way were idiots and ignoramuses. You also said they were lazy shits who can't be bothered to read books. You then preceded to call them lazy for not checking Google or a dictionary, since they knew the word was wrong just by looking at it.

Jupiter551 said:
You dismiss cultural traditions as irrelevant and are snobby and elitist toward things you consider "artsy".

Why do the cultural traditions of Holland not get your protection? Are they less important for some reason? Some people might think that is a bit arrogant. Not me though, because I know dead people occasionally made mistakes that should not be repeated.

Also I happen to like art, and know it is not an insult to be associated with it.

Jupiter551 said:
Even after all that I point out it would be a matter for your country and your people can do as they wish with their own changes to the language, and you respond by calling traditional English "foreign gibberish". Hey, here's something along your own line of thought: your opinions about the importance of language are no better than that of anyone else.

I was joking with the foreign gibberish, but since I am scared of being called arrogant I will not call for a joke tense or maybe font of some kind. After all we do not have one now, so it must not ever be needed.

Jupiter551 said:
You're being imperious, arrogant and insulting. When you accuse me of "insulting people less fortunate" you can add hypocritical to that list.

You seem to think being imperious is a bad thing. Not everyone walks hunched over trying to avoid attention, some people walk tall and say what the believe. People who agree with them call them great, and people who disagree call them fools. I wonder what everyone calls the servile person hiding in the crowd.
 
Nordling said:
Imperious IS a bad thing. It is not a synonym with proud. Or are you joking? :-D
It will be in American 2.0. In fact synonyms (henceforth to be known as "trik-werds") are potentially confusing to those who didn't do their homework so fuck them, all words will be reduced to the most common word people think they mean. In this case, "prowed".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nordling
Furthermore I salute thee Shaun, champion of change, stand imperious sir and may I suggest you lead by example and from now on refuse to communicate except in American 2.0! Huzzah (2.0v = "yay")!
 
Nordling said:
Imperious IS a bad thing. It is not a synonym with proud. Or are you joking? :-D

It has negative connotations, but is not necessarily a bad word. Being bossy is to be expected of people who are bosses for example.

Synonyms: imperative, overbearing, masterful, authoritative

Antonyms: fawning, helpless, humble, obedient, servile, subservient, weak
 
Shaun__ said:
Nordling said:
Imperious IS a bad thing. It is not a synonym with proud. Or are you joking? :-D

It has negative connotations, but is not necessarily a bad word. Being bossy is to be expected of people who are bosses for example.

Synonyms: imperative, overbearing, masterful, authoritative

Antonyms: fawning, helpless, humble, obedient, servile, subservient, weak
Don't forget "Arrogantly domineering."

A good boss should not be "bossy." Leadership should not entail imperiousness. Arrogance rarely garners lasting respect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rose and LadyLuna
Shaun__ said:
Nordling said:
Imperious IS a bad thing. It is not a synonym with proud. Or are you joking? :-D

It has negative connotations, but is not necessarily a bad word. Being bossy is to be expected of people who are bosses for example.

Synonyms: imperative, overbearing, masterful, authoritative

Antonyms: fawning, helpless, humble, obedient, servile, subservient, weak
You forgot the definition but included the synonyms and antonyms?

im·pe·ri·ous/imˈpi(ə)rēəs/
Adjective:
Assuming authority without justification; arrogant; domineering.
Synonyms:
imperative - overbearing - masterful - authoritative

Notes: imperial pertains to the qualities of power and royalty; imperious implies that someone is overbearing or domineering
 
  • Like
Reactions: LadyLuna
Nordling said:
Shaun__ said:
Nordling said:
Imperious IS a bad thing. It is not a synonym with proud. Or are you joking? :-D

It has negative connotations, but is not necessarily a bad word. Being bossy is to be expected of people who are bosses for example.

Synonyms: imperative, overbearing, masterful, authoritative

Antonyms: fawning, helpless, humble, obedient, servile, subservient, weak
Don't forget "Arrogantly domineering."

A good boss should not be "bossy." Leadership should not entail imperiousness. Arrogance rarely garners lasting respect.

It depends who you are working with, there is no perfect boss for all environments. I work with a lot of very strong willed people people, and they walk all over anyone they see as weak.


Jupiter551 said:
You forgot the definition but included the synonyms and antonyms?

I also did not mention you failed to respond to the things I posted. Knowing when not to say things is a skill some people never seem to learn. I still think you calling me arrogant is funny for various reasons.
 
Honestly, I kinda like the fact that English has such weird spellings. It leads to puns, and I like puns.
 
LadyLuna said:
Honestly, I kinda like the fact that English has such weird spellings. It leads to puns, and I like puns.

Do you read Piers Anthony?
 
Shaun__ said:
I also did not mention you failed to respond to the things I posted. Knowing when not to say things is a skill some people never seem to learn.
Uhh, you DIDN'T mention things that I DIDN'T say in response, because YOU know when not to say things? Good point dude, touché. :?

Shaun__ said:
I still think you calling me arrogant is funny for various reasons.
I think it's funny that you admit to being imperious, which is another word for arrogant, yet don't think you ARE arrogant lol.
 
Jupiter551 said:
Shaun__ said:
I also did not mention you failed to respond to the things I posted. Knowing when not to say things is a skill some people never seem to learn.
Uhh, you DIDN'T mention things that I DIDN'T say in response, because YOU know when not to say things? Good point dude, touché. :?

Shaun__ said:
I still think you calling me arrogant is funny for various reasons.
I think it's funny that you admit to being imperious, which is another word for arrogant, yet don't think you ARE arrogant lol.

I think you are not responding, because you have nothing you can say about it. That is often the case with people who feel the need to resort to insulting other people.

Arrogant is indeed another word for imperious, and so are masterful and authoritative. I even found several sites that list proud as a synonym as well, despite Nordling's lack of faith in me. Some words are complicated. You view me standing up against what you personally feel is the way things should be as a bad thing, and I view your refusal to even consider change to be silly. History is full of people changing how communication is carried out. I do not see you calling them arrogant.

However, the most common form of simplification is the adoption of new spelling reforms. Several major world languages have undergone wholesale spelling reforms: Spanish (in the 18th century), Portuguese (in 1911 and 1945, in Portugal, in 1943 and 1971 in Brazil, and in 2009 in all countries), German (in 1901/02 and 1996/98), Irish in 1948 and Russian (in 1708 and 1919).

Chinese
(1920s) — replaced Classical Chinese with Vernacular Chinese as the standard written language.
Mandarin was chosen at a committee from several Chinese dialects.
(1950s PRC) — reformed the script used to write the standard language by introducing Simplified Chinese characters (later adopted by Singapore and Malaysia, but Traditional Chinese characters remain in use in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and various overseas Chinese communities).
Czech (19th century) — The dictionary of Josef Jungmann contributed to the renewal of the vocabulary. In the 1840s the letter w became replaced by v.
Estonian (1910s/1920s) — reform movement led by Johannes Aavik and Johannes V. Veski renewed the vocabulary, borrowing a lot of roots from Finnish and other Uralic languages and even inventing some roots.
German (1901/02) — unified the spelling system nationwide (first in Germany, with later adoption by other Germanophone countries). Further reforms were enacted more recently, in the German spelling reform of 1996.
Greek (1970s/1980s) — while the written "pure" language, the katharevusa was full of Old Greek words, the spoken "popular" language, the dhimotiki was not. After the fall of the military rule, a law was promulgated, making the latter become the written language as well. For example, on Greek coins, the plural of the currency was drachmai (katharevusa form) before and became drachmes (dhimotiki form) after 1982.
Hebrew (1920s) — Modern Hebrew was created from Ancient Hebrew by simplification of the grammar (especially of the syntax) according to Indo-European models, coinage of new words from Hebrew roots based on European models, and simplification of pronunciation rules. Linguist Ghil'ad Zuckermann argues that Modern Hebrew, which he terms "Israeli", is a Semito-European hybrid, based not only on Hebrew but also on Yiddish and other languages spoken by revivalists.[1] Zuckermann therefore endorses the translation of the Hebrew Bible into what he calls "Israeli".[2]
Hungarian (late 18th and early 19th centuries) — more than ten thousand words were coined,[3] out of which several thousand are still actively used today (see also Ferenc Kazinczy).
Irish (1940s) — spelling system greatly simplified: Gaedheal became Gael, and Ó Séigheadh became Ó Sé.
Japanese (1946) — historical kana usage was replaced by modern kana usage, while the kanji system also transformed from Traditional Chinese characters to New Characters.
Norwegian (20th century) — as Norway became independent from Denmark (1814), Norwegian started to drift away from Danish. The reforms in 1907 and 1917 made Riksmål the written standard Norwegian, renamed Bokmål in 1929. Bokmål and the more vernacular Nynorsk were made closer by a reform in 1938. Today both language forms are spoken: on Norwegian coins, the name of the country is alternately Norge (Bokmål) and Noreg (Nynorsk).
Portuguese (20th century) — replaced a cumbersome traditional spelling system with a simplified one (asthma, for instance, became asma and phthysica became tísica).
Romanian (19th century) — replaced Cyrillic script with the Latin alphabet, deprecated hundreds of Slavic words in favour of Romance ones. Romanian has undergone spelling reforms in 1904, 1953, and, most recently, in 1993, with two minor ones in 1964 and 2005.
Somali (1970s) — modified Latin script developed by Somali linguist Shire Jama Ahmed for writing the Somali language; made compulsory in 1972 by the President of Somalia, General Mohamed Siad Barre. Also the vocabulary was renewed, a lot of new words became coined from existing Somali roots.
Turkish (1930s) — language and writing system were reformed starting in the 1920s, to the point that the older language is called by a different name, Ottoman Turkish. The Ottoman alphabet was based on the Arabic alphabet, which was replaced in 1928 by the new, Latin-based Turkish alphabet. Loanwords of Persian and Arabic origin were dropped in favor of native Turkish words or new coinages based on Turkic roots.
Vietnamese (20th century) — Classical Chinese lost official status in 1918, and the colonial schools instituted a "Franco-Vietnamese Curriculum" at this time. Vietnamese was taught using the Latin alphabet, and this form soon became dominent.
 
Shaun, I have lots of faith in you. Furthermore, since I've met you on here, I've thought you a likable guy and will continue feeling that way. This is an argument...all three of us need to keep the personal attacks out...and get back on topic. :) Let's make this a first on ACF...a FUN argument.

I like you guys!
 
Shaun__ said:
I think you are not responding, because you have nothing you can say about it. That is often the case with people who feel the need to resort to insulting other people.

Arrogant is indeed another word for imperious, and so are masterful and authoritative. I even found several sites that list proud as a synonym as well, despite Nordling's lack of faith in me. Some words are complicated. You view me standing up against what you personally feel is the way things should be as a bad thing, and I view your refusal to even consider change to be silly. History is full of people changing how communication is carried out. I do not see you calling them arrogant.
Resort to insulting other people? You're the only one here who's been insulting people. I could say once more that you can do what you like with your version of the language, so long as your population accepts it, but then that would be at LEAST the third time I've said that. That's not even counting the fact that you appear to not have had a single person here at least agree with you, many of them your own countrymen, but hey, you know best right?

The reason I don't respond to something is a) I forgot, b) I did respond and you just didn't register it as a response or c) it was too absurd to warrant a response.

I've given you reasons why I think this is a bad idea, so has Nordling, TigressLily, LadyLuna, if you want to treat this thread as your personal little fiefdom where you ignore or abuse anyone who disagrees with you, may I make one final suggestion? Go post this on some kind of linguistics forum where you can actually have a decent debate with people who give a shit. If you're so "imperious" of your ideas (synonym for proud I hear) have the courage to put them somewhere other than a cam girl forum.

PS, I notice you still haven't begun typing in your proposed simplified form yet - if you won't do it yourself how can you expect anyone else to?
 
Shaun__ said:
LadyLuna said:
Honestly, I kinda like the fact that English has such weird spellings. It leads to puns, and I like puns.

Do you read Piers Anthony?

Xanth is fun, though the newer books aren't as good as the older ones. The older ones, the puns were secondary to the story, and added a little flavor. The newer books, it feels like he tried to fit as many puns as possible into the stories, sometimes twisting the story a bit just to fit the pun.
 
Jupiter551 said:
Resort to insulting other people? You're the only one here who's been insulting people.

Hi Jupiter I want you to meet this dude I know Jupiter.

Jupiter551 said:
you blithering idiot.

Jupiter551 said:
minority of idiots who can't be bothered to learn?

Jupiter551 said:
in order to please a minority of ignoramuses?

Jupiter551 said:
a bunch of lazy shits

Jupiter551 said:
That's what non-lazy people do. People who aren't so arrogant as to think language should be uprooted and changed to suit THEM.

I noticed you ignored the historical precedent of what I am talking about again. All you seem capable of is insulting people with trouble learning how to spell, and calling me names for disagreeing with you. Where are your facts? You have said nothing constructive in a long time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.