More than aware that MFC has their tips are gifts. To those who don't want to read a ramble of text, the following bit is the general questions regarding model's/member's opinions.
Quick Opinion:
- If a model agrees to content for a tip and said tip is given but no content is created should reimbursement happen?
- Should MFC be refunding, especially if the model bans shortly after the tip?
- [I will never do this to be clear] But has anyone ever considered suing for services not provided? [And just generally models thoughts on it in the sense that a contract was breached]
- Should MFC support do more in terms of punishments?
- If a tip is given for an agreed upon content and the model has no intension to do said content, at what stage would you consider it theft to pursue criminally? [Like $10, $100, $1000, $5000, $10000 etc]
- For those who do read below, do you think I crossed a line? (But if so, what realistic other recourse would I have had. Because the classical line "the tokens are lost" really bothers me when there is obviously no punishment for bad behavior.)
Longer story (for context). When I use " it's actual non-paraphrased words,
To start not going to say the models name but it is someone within the top 200 or has been a few times this year
It started about 2 years ago. Tipped for content, which was done. Never visited her room for a few months later so I PM her if she wants to do something similar. Replies no, at this time I realize I'm banned from her room [Context behind this ban, I suspect it's because during our one on one the previous time she went to her phone to change the music it got unplugged and proceeded to blurt out her real name....I made a comment that "I'll pretend I didn't hear that"]. Thinking back to it, I figure the ban could have come from that incident but I didn't care, I hadn't noticed I was banned for months anyways (I can always find another model).
Fast forward to a year ago. Saw she was on, PM'ed her if she was okay with 1875 tokens for unban and similar content to last time (I do like her body type). Her literal response as "OK".
Afraid she might not remember, I ask her if she remembers what I like to which she replied exactly what I was looking for. She says 1875 ready. I tell her I'm adding the tokens, her reply being "1875 tok soon pls". I had finished adding and tipped.
I did get unbanned, and we would do stuff at the end of stream.
Hung around in her room waiting for the end of stream, didn't say much except hi, I was doing other things, while I waited and told her to PM me at the end, and responded when she was wondering if her video/audio was working [it was a slow night for her, in that my tip was more than what was tipped in the next 1.5 hours].
So after the 1.5 hours hear that she's leaving. Send her a few messages just clarifying boundaries (Like confirming no anal) and I say okay. She then leaves a few minutes later. Sent her a PM the next day when she was on naively thinking she had maybe just forgotten and then got banned. To be clear, what did I say that justified the ban in PM's? The following quoted directly:
"hi"
"Guessing you forgot after the session last night?" *At this stage I realized I was banned again*
About 5 minutes of waiting later I write
"Can you please respond...I don't want to have to do a token dispute"
After no response I get annoyed, I do send a note to MFC detailing the circumstances and requesting tokens to be returned but never receive any reply.
A few months later, I pop into a different models room and see the other model there camming (I didn't know before clicking into the room). She sees my username within seconds of me going into room (haven't said anything in chat), and all I hear is "ban him now he's a creep" before being banned. I'm livid at this point, I tried being diplomatic about it and for something she agreed to (so in reaction I posted her name in lounge saying she scammed me out of the tokens)
Fast forward to earlier this month (one year from the original tip), I do notice she is in another model's room (She got posted in the lounge). So at this point is when I think I did cross a line, but you be the judge. I sent the model she was working with the following message
"Not wanting to start stuff. I tipped [not her name] about 1 year back for a show she agreed to but was instead blocked when she logged off. I'm just asking her to send back the tokens; since she didn't do the show"
Of course [not her name] tells the model she is working with to ban me because I keep harassing her, but to the models credit she didn't (a part of me wants to believe it's because she realized I made a reasonable request)
A slightly one-sided conversation happens, where I justify that she could have said no to the content, and that all I ask if she return the tokens. This is all in PM's, nothing public (with each message, [not her name] whispers something and I see the other model typing before [not her name] tells her don't reply)
Nothing really happens, and I'm still mad, so I send a model only visible tip with the comment "Honestly all I'm asking is her to return what she stole (since she agreed said tip so I tipped then she didn't do it)".
To which the model alerts [not her name]. Then [not her name] decides to say something that really sets me off. Along the lines of, it was from years back and that I tipped hardly anything for it. This in general gets me mad, it's $150 which if her attitude was that I wasn't paying her enough don't agree to it. Or if you have second thoughts about doing it return the tokens.
My immediate response by PM was essentially saying it wasn't years ago, it was literally 1 year almost to the day and if [not her name] wanted me to stop she could just return my tokens she took. Which is when the other model actually responded, asking what I wanted from her
The last response PM I sent (before then getting banned) "She entered into the agreement, if she keeps saying it wasn't much then she can certainly afford to refund me"
So that's the story.
To be perfectly frank I'm tired of seeing this kind of thing. A tip for agreed upon content or a tip on a tip menu that is never done. Or worse the tip for something agreed upon and instant ban. MFC doesn't do a thing about it, even though its easy to prove. Like literally last time I tipped and got banned my PM was "Would you take off your shirt to be only in bra for 400 tokens" [to a non-nude model], response "yes tip", I tipped, instant ban, complain to MFC and hear nothing back. Model still active, and I am out ~$30.
What bothered me most about this was being called a creep. It made me question though, at what point would someone be willing to sue someone else? I would never do it, as I would never want to essentially DOX someone, but at a certain point members would you have a breaking point where it doesn't matter to you.
So my question to the members, and models who also read this far. At what point would you consider something theft (like lets hypothetically say instead of $150, it was $5000), would you consider it theft? At what value would you as a model consider it okay to pursue legally? (If the answer is never pursue legally, please justify as I would like to know)
Quick Opinion:
- If a model agrees to content for a tip and said tip is given but no content is created should reimbursement happen?
- Should MFC be refunding, especially if the model bans shortly after the tip?
- [I will never do this to be clear] But has anyone ever considered suing for services not provided? [And just generally models thoughts on it in the sense that a contract was breached]
- Should MFC support do more in terms of punishments?
- If a tip is given for an agreed upon content and the model has no intension to do said content, at what stage would you consider it theft to pursue criminally? [Like $10, $100, $1000, $5000, $10000 etc]
- For those who do read below, do you think I crossed a line? (But if so, what realistic other recourse would I have had. Because the classical line "the tokens are lost" really bothers me when there is obviously no punishment for bad behavior.)
Longer story (for context). When I use " it's actual non-paraphrased words,
To start not going to say the models name but it is someone within the top 200 or has been a few times this year
It started about 2 years ago. Tipped for content, which was done. Never visited her room for a few months later so I PM her if she wants to do something similar. Replies no, at this time I realize I'm banned from her room [Context behind this ban, I suspect it's because during our one on one the previous time she went to her phone to change the music it got unplugged and proceeded to blurt out her real name....I made a comment that "I'll pretend I didn't hear that"]. Thinking back to it, I figure the ban could have come from that incident but I didn't care, I hadn't noticed I was banned for months anyways (I can always find another model).
Fast forward to a year ago. Saw she was on, PM'ed her if she was okay with 1875 tokens for unban and similar content to last time (I do like her body type). Her literal response as "OK".
Afraid she might not remember, I ask her if she remembers what I like to which she replied exactly what I was looking for. She says 1875 ready. I tell her I'm adding the tokens, her reply being "1875 tok soon pls". I had finished adding and tipped.
I did get unbanned, and we would do stuff at the end of stream.
Hung around in her room waiting for the end of stream, didn't say much except hi, I was doing other things, while I waited and told her to PM me at the end, and responded when she was wondering if her video/audio was working [it was a slow night for her, in that my tip was more than what was tipped in the next 1.5 hours].
So after the 1.5 hours hear that she's leaving. Send her a few messages just clarifying boundaries (Like confirming no anal) and I say okay. She then leaves a few minutes later. Sent her a PM the next day when she was on naively thinking she had maybe just forgotten and then got banned. To be clear, what did I say that justified the ban in PM's? The following quoted directly:
"hi"
"Guessing you forgot after the session last night?" *At this stage I realized I was banned again*
About 5 minutes of waiting later I write
"Can you please respond...I don't want to have to do a token dispute"
After no response I get annoyed, I do send a note to MFC detailing the circumstances and requesting tokens to be returned but never receive any reply.
A few months later, I pop into a different models room and see the other model there camming (I didn't know before clicking into the room). She sees my username within seconds of me going into room (haven't said anything in chat), and all I hear is "ban him now he's a creep" before being banned. I'm livid at this point, I tried being diplomatic about it and for something she agreed to (so in reaction I posted her name in lounge saying she scammed me out of the tokens)
Fast forward to earlier this month (one year from the original tip), I do notice she is in another model's room (She got posted in the lounge). So at this point is when I think I did cross a line, but you be the judge. I sent the model she was working with the following message
"Not wanting to start stuff. I tipped [not her name] about 1 year back for a show she agreed to but was instead blocked when she logged off. I'm just asking her to send back the tokens; since she didn't do the show"
Of course [not her name] tells the model she is working with to ban me because I keep harassing her, but to the models credit she didn't (a part of me wants to believe it's because she realized I made a reasonable request)
A slightly one-sided conversation happens, where I justify that she could have said no to the content, and that all I ask if she return the tokens. This is all in PM's, nothing public (with each message, [not her name] whispers something and I see the other model typing before [not her name] tells her don't reply)
Nothing really happens, and I'm still mad, so I send a model only visible tip with the comment "Honestly all I'm asking is her to return what she stole (since she agreed said tip so I tipped then she didn't do it)".
To which the model alerts [not her name]. Then [not her name] decides to say something that really sets me off. Along the lines of, it was from years back and that I tipped hardly anything for it. This in general gets me mad, it's $150 which if her attitude was that I wasn't paying her enough don't agree to it. Or if you have second thoughts about doing it return the tokens.
My immediate response by PM was essentially saying it wasn't years ago, it was literally 1 year almost to the day and if [not her name] wanted me to stop she could just return my tokens she took. Which is when the other model actually responded, asking what I wanted from her
The last response PM I sent (before then getting banned) "She entered into the agreement, if she keeps saying it wasn't much then she can certainly afford to refund me"
So that's the story.
To be perfectly frank I'm tired of seeing this kind of thing. A tip for agreed upon content or a tip on a tip menu that is never done. Or worse the tip for something agreed upon and instant ban. MFC doesn't do a thing about it, even though its easy to prove. Like literally last time I tipped and got banned my PM was "Would you take off your shirt to be only in bra for 400 tokens" [to a non-nude model], response "yes tip", I tipped, instant ban, complain to MFC and hear nothing back. Model still active, and I am out ~$30.
What bothered me most about this was being called a creep. It made me question though, at what point would someone be willing to sue someone else? I would never do it, as I would never want to essentially DOX someone, but at a certain point members would you have a breaking point where it doesn't matter to you.
So my question to the members, and models who also read this far. At what point would you consider something theft (like lets hypothetically say instead of $150, it was $5000), would you consider it theft? At what value would you as a model consider it okay to pursue legally? (If the answer is never pursue legally, please justify as I would like to know)
