ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[Bocefish]

Today's polls show Obama keeps losing job approval ratings and rightly so. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

 

[Jupiter551]

A little about misplaced rage and anger.

When we talk about "support the troops," there is more than one thing going on. One is the support all decent US citizens and many of our allies give to brave soldiers who willingly go in harm's way to protect their country and related to that is the fact that families of those troops have created programs and who post ribbons to show their support. I really don't think Jupiter was talking about that.

What I think (and could certainly be wrong) Jupiter was talking about is the people who hold positions of power in our country who use the phrase "you don't support our troops" or variations as a bludgeon to attack those patriotic Americans who did NOT think attacking Iraq had ANYTHING to do with 911, which it didn't. To assume that they didn't support our troops is mendacity and the worst kind of politics.

In a thread like this, misplaced rage often crops up. Shit. I've felt it myself.

Indeed, thanks Nordling, I've done my best several times to explain I was objecting to its use by politicians as a political tool, and not questioning its use or worthiness by normal citizens who are simply showing support of men and women on the ground.

Politicians and the media have seen to it that it has become so intertwined and such a taboo topic that *anyone* questioning the legitimacy of the Iraq war is thereby not supporting the troops and thereby shouted down/lynched/fired/ostracised. When used for that purpose it is propaganda that prolongs and justifies any armed conflict they choose to apply it to.

I am not suggesting that has anything in the slightest to do with sending care packages to soldiers, or ensuring they're welcomed home and taken care of in finding work or whatever other help they may need transitioning back to "normal" life. Blaming soldiers for a war they were ordered to fight is ungrateful, outrageous, and unfair - and I've never known anyone who's ever felt soldiers should be blamed.

 

[Bocefish]

If you said the above instead of saying these two statements in the same paragraph yesterday I might be more understanding.

By the way, it isn't the role of people in a free state to support a war, or those fighting it, regardless of the morals of that war. That's for dictatorships and it's called PROPAGANDA. That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place. You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

Here's some more propaganda sites:

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/warriors.aspx
http://www.supportourtroops.org/
http://www.supportthetroops.com/
http://www.supportyourtroops.us/

 

[Just Me]

If you said the above instead of saying these two statements in the same paragraph yesterday I might be more understanding.

By the way, it isn't the role of people in a free state to support a war, or those fighting it, regardless of the morals of that war. That's for dictatorships and it's called PROPAGANDA. That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place. You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

Here's some more propaganda sites:

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/warriors.aspx
http://www.supportourtroops.org/
http://www.supportthetroops.com/
http://www.supportyourtroops.us/

You do not understand what propaganda is. If you are told you are not "supporting the troops" because you speak out against war that is propaganda. Websites that support the troops and do not state anywhere on them that if you are against the war you are against them, are not propaganda. I am sure you will say you were being ironic or facetious but you have to ask yourself why many of us could seen Jupiter's point and you could not.

 

[Bocefish]

If you said the above instead of saying these two statements in the same paragraph yesterday I might be more understanding.

By the way, it isn't the role of people in a free state to support a war, or those fighting it, regardless of the morals of that war. That's for dictatorships and it's called PROPAGANDA. That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place. You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

Here's some more propaganda sites:

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/warriors.aspx
http://www.supportourtroops.org/
http://www.supportthetroops.com/
http://www.supportyourtroops.us/

You do not understand what propaganda is. If you are told you are not "supporting the troops" because you speak out against war that is propaganda. Websites that support the troops and do not state anywhere on them that if you are against the war you are against them, are not propaganda. I am sure you will say you were being ironic or facetious but you have to ask yourself why many of us could seen Jupiter's point and you could not.

It was indeed following Jup's PROPAGANDA description. What he said yesterday was totally different from today. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and consider it a misunderstanding. We all say shit that comes out wrong or wasn't exactly clear at times.

 

[Jupiter551]

If you said the above instead of saying these two statements in the same paragraph yesterday I might be more understanding.

By the way, it isn't the role of people in a free state to support a war, or those fighting it, regardless of the morals of that war. That's for dictatorships and it's called PROPAGANDA. That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place. You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

It isn't the role of a free populace to support no matter what, or are you suggesting that the German people had an obligation to fully support everything the German armed forces did in WW 2? That was the kind of situation I was talking about, unconditional support regardless of circumstances, which clearly isn't the case in the middle east conflicts though elements of your government have tried to use the statement in a propagandist way and in some cases succeeded.

Dissenting opinions and voices, especially on topics like war, are the very fabric of a free society and when they are silenced - that's when I liken it to a dictatorship, where people are afraid to speak out or penalised for doing so, and that's also what I was referring to with the 'neo-fascist' statement.

Is it really so incomprehensible to you to be wary of a national discourse that silences those who disagree, and uses emotional statements to elicit responses that indicate passive agreement? Your founding fathers tried to ensure that governments wouldn't be able to roll over the people, but technology and tactics get sneakier by the year. As Thomas Jefferson said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance".

 

[apoe_lacks]

Im Sorry where you there? I was. I wasnt watching it on tv. I was in it. I saw what Saddam and his family did to a major part of his own people. i saw the tourcher rooms. your talking about a man who gased 40,000 of his own people. where they better off??? The media would love you to beileave that all that was a big country blowing up a little one for oil. im not saying we where right in everything we did over there and the fact that had there been no oil there we prob would not have gone in. almost every iraqi i talked to was happy that he was gone. sure we could of handled it better but please dont talk about something you know very little about. ive been there 3 times i still have a few iraqi friends that i trade emails with and the country is far better now then it was ten years ago. iraq has had elections for the 1st time in there history becuase of us. And your saying they awhere better off under a dictator who gave them no rights c'mon grow up!










Not that I'm going to defend saddam on being an evil dictator, but even those who were against him in the country said that they wish the war hadn't happened and preferred how things were before under his rule. Essentially it's similar to someone on the outside seeing a girl with a complete bellend of a boyfriend who hits her, now you could go up and get all in his face and she'd be happy, but chances are if you did that she'd be pissed off at you and tell you to f off. Fact is however much you want to white knight, that girl has chosen to be with and stay with that guy.
Yes it looks like these people need saving, but most of them do not want saving, and they definitely don't want saving by us invading their country/homes and killing off all their soldiers.
However corrupt Iraq was people did choose him to rule. Yes the system could have been a lot better, and by our standards it was horrible, but it really wasn't any of our business to say that. Besides it clearly wasn't anything to do with "saving Iraq from an evil leader".

Although I have respect for soldiers who go out to wars etc I don't really have much sympathy or respect for those out of them who go on about the woes as though they were forced into it/had no choice. As far as I know in the Iraq war no one was forced. You sign up to the army and get your wage not just to sit around and train, you do it so that if needs be you go to war. Everyone can have a good moan about their work, but surely if you're a soldier you knew that you weren't going to be mothered. It's a hard life. Hence why I haven't chosen it. I also believe though as someone who hasn't chosen that life you should try and support those who have as much as possible, whether you believe the war is right or wrong, you should support those who are involved. It's not individual soldiers faults, and we need them in case our country ever got invaded.

 

[Neudiin]

 

[Jupiter551]

wow ironic, I'm watching that as my 10lb 6 month old bengal kitten is screaming around the apartment, tail all fluffy, jumping up on the desk and then RACING off again before I can so much as say "down!". He has these episodes.

 

[Mirra]

It isn't the role of a free populace to support no matter what, or are you suggesting that the German people had an obligation to fully support everything the German armed forces did in WW 2?

This is where you lose me, Jupiter. I am suggesting that German people during World War II supporting their young men IN SPITE of what they are being ordered to do by the Hitler and his commanders wouldn't be the same as supporting the acts they carried out. It's about supporting the individuals and that's something a majority of Americans feel strongly about in my experience with our current situation.

Yes, extreme patriotism was used to control the people of Nazi Germany and yet many of the US politicians and pundits use support of our troops as a similar tool but those people are absolute scum in my opinion and I imagine most others who support the troops but not the wars would agree with me. The problem I have with accepting your argument is in half your posts, you don't seem to allow for the separation of the two. Instead you toss blanket statements of propaganda and fascism around relating to something only a minority is guilty of doing. That kind of attitude from you is little better than the polarizing pundits who abuse the idea of supporting our troops to push a political agenda.

 

[Nordling]

It's simply impossible to cover every nuance of speech in a thread like this, but I really think we're doing way too much parsing. Jupiter has already said that he is all for people "supporting the troops" in the sense of separating them from the wrong or right of a given war. The problem is, SOMETIMES the troops are to blame...it's just not all of the blame and not even most of the blame.

Should we castigate Buffy Sainte-Marie for writing Universal Soldier or Donovan and others for covering it? At some point we have to quit over rationalizing everything and realize that nothing about this issue is simple.

Maybe we should just let people support the troops in any way they choose and quit wasting our energy arguing over that HALF of it...and just maybe spend our time and energy contemplating those who are really causing all the death. The chicken hawks, the propagandists, the corrupt politicians and many others.

 

[Mirra]

There are about a dozen things I want to say in response... but none of them are going to help so whatever. I regret making half the posts I have in this thread today for that same reason at this point so let's please move along.

 

[Nordling]

And moving along... Someone every couple days says something like, "If we elect Obama, we'll be like Greece!" Quite often they then light their hair on fire and run around widdershins,

Her's an explanation of the Greek Debt Crisis in Four Minutes and EVERYONE should love this because it includes UNICORNS!

 

[WildFingers]

And Now for something completely different. . . The Presidential election is less than 2 weeks away, What are your feelings on the CANDIDATES since this thread is actually suppose to be about the Presidential election.

Why do you think Obama can do anything different? What leadership does he have to bring a bipartisan Congress together to actually get something done? His voting record in congress was "present" as a Senator.

There I started something. I wanted no part of, so lets keep on point and not resort to flaming anyone and lets just have some fun.

 

[Nordling]

And Now for something completely different. . . The Presidential election is less than 2 weeks away, What are your feelings on the CANDIDATES since this thread is actually suppose to be about the Presidential election.

Why do you think Obama can do anything different? What leadership does he have to bring a bipartisan Congress together to actually get something done? His voting record in congress was "present" as a Senator.

There I started something. I wanted no part of, so lets keep on point and not resort to flaming anyone and lets just have some fun.

I already did with the video just above your post. But if you actually read the entire thread, I gave many reasons to elect the President way back in the thread when I posted some 200 of his accomplishments. Ignore them at your leisure:

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html

 

[Just Me]

Don't you love all the pundits and their statements about elections, no one has won an election without winning a certain state, no one has won an election when the unemployment rate is over a specific amount etc etc. I do enjoy some xkcd :lol:

 

[WildFingers]

Ok, I went thru as much of this thread that I will ever do.

Things I have learned relating to the election candidates and myself. I am a moderately moderate, as to the graph from the Political Compass Test (see below)

We have abundance of stern Democrats and a few stern Republican. Both have made some good points and some not so good points. some links were posted that I really have to question. If you are making a point about your candidate and choose to document why you are right by using a reference that is a political propaganda site (I will exaggerate here - for comedic purposes only) http:yousbettervotedemocratOryouarestupid.com is not really a reference I will spend more than 30 seconds on.

I would like a more moderate reference listing the positives for both candidates not just one. Let me make my decision on how it relates to my values and beliefs.

I have voted for both parties in the past. I am not a staunch Republican nor Democrat.

But. I am more willing to vote for a candidate that has held a real job in the public sector rather than a candidate that has spent his/her whole life in politics. Real world business experience trumps a book.

The President is supposed to be a leader. If he wants his bills passed he should pick up the phone call the Majority/Minority leader of the House/Senate and work it out. Not throw his arms up and blame others for his lack of leadership. This is like a 5 year old who takes his ball and goes home. This happened not only with Barry Obama it also happened with GWB.

Blaming the last guy is BS! No one twisted Barry's arm and made him run for President. He willfully and whole heartedly jumped right in the fire. He knew what he was getting into prior to the Iowa caucus. Blame game - again is a 5 year old's shit.

We are in a deep recession. Why is Michelle flying all over the world using the office as her personal travel agent? Has anyone researched the cost of this and who is paying for this? They too are out of touch with the population.

People need to treat this election as the most important elections in your lifetime. I ask you to be informed and vote the candidate that most fits your life's values, not based solely on what the media is pushing down your throat. The media is biased. You want a Republican POV watch FOX or listen to Limbaugh You want a Democrat POV you can watch ABC,CBS, or NBC, Jon Stewart.

Why is an x-MTV Reality Star/Comedian even a source for information? Why do I care what a Movie/TV Actor thinks who is right for this country? What expertise do these individuals have, are they even like you? Do they have the same struggles you do? Do they clean their own bathrooms? Do you?

What is the true unemployment percentage of the U.S.? After the extension(s) (99 weeks) of unemployment insurance you no longer are included in the percentage of unemployed. You are considered no longer looking for a job.
True unemployment my guess is closer to 20% rather than what is being reported.

Please be informed, make your choice based on what is best for you. It is your right.

 

[Jupiter551]

lol I'm less communist and more libertarian than Ghandi, slightly

 

[schlmoe]

It's simply impossible to cover every nuance of speech in a thread like this, but I really think we're doing way too much parsing. Jupiter has already said that he is all for people "supporting the troops" in the sense of separating them from the wrong or right of a given war. The problem is, SOMETIMES the troops are to blame...it's just not all of the blame and not even most of the blame.

Should we castigate Buffy Sainte-Marie for writing Universal Soldier or Donovan and others for covering it? At some point we have to quit over rationalizing everything and realize that nothing about this issue is simple.

Maybe we should just let people support the troops in any way they choose and quit wasting our energy arguing over that HALF of it...and just maybe spend our time and energy contemplating those who are really causing all the death. The chicken hawks, the propagandists, the corrupt politicians and many others.

It's too bad you had to stick your nose in where it didn't belong. This was none of your business. In addition to that, you appear to have no clue on how and when to use certain words. For example, there was no parsing going on. I took the ENTIRE sentence, then gave an explanation on why Jupiter was full of crap. I did not take it out of context or nothing of the sort. You use words incorrectly quite often, it appears that you want to add an intellecutal bent. This occurs often, and unfortunately you fail often. You do not even succeed as a pseudo-intellectual. Total fail. I won't say epic fail, because you are not capable of anything epic...except for horse manure. Yes, you are amazing at that. I would venture to say that you are so full of horse manure, that would be the explanation why you spew it every time you talk and type. So, go along little nordling. Go away, little boy. Go back to your little sandbox of the word game. Off you go, there is no room at the adult table for you.

End of exaggerated condescension

Yes, this was a little lesson. I apologize for the condescension, but I meant everything else. Especially the horse manure comments.

How did that feel, nordling? Did you like that lesson very much? Get any warm fuzzies? Yeah, I thought so. Maybe now you can imagine how Wildfingers felt after reading your "go away little boy" speech. It's possible that you don't know him, but I do. He's a pretty good guy with a (sometimes weird) sense of humor. Everybody in Amber's room likes him. Quite possibly, that is meaningless to you, and that's fine. But he deserves at least a little bit of respect. Oh, did you notice that his name is different from yours? Yeah, that means he paid money out of his pocket to support this site. So we have on one hand, pays in horse manure. On the other hand, pays in money. Hmm. All in all that doesn't mean a whole lot. Except, he doubly deserves respect. No need to get your horse manaurus out, what I mean is he deserves respect for being a ACF member, and for contributing money to support this site. After Amber and the models (who pay in BS&T), IMO the VIPs deserve a little bit of respect. Not a free pass, but at least a little more than you showed him...which was zero.

He made 2 posts here today begging. OMG! Begging for things like actual discussion of the candidates. Or how about we stop the bloodletting and have a talk and HEY, some fun! What a concept, but typical Fingers. Always thinking about himself. Just share some words and maybe some laughs. And the 1st post was ignored, and Fingers posted again. Then Mr. Horse Manure Pussycat spews out his "go away little boy". Yeah, right. Go read all 47 pages of knifing and vitrol, what you need is in there somewhere. I can't be bothered to stop my horse manure spewing to make a clean start, so go away little boy.

In typical Fingers fashion, he comes back. Slogged through some of it. Makes some pretty astute comments (totally un-Finger-like, lol), and makes ANOTHER request for sanity. HMP, if you can't see it in your heart to show him a little respect in your reply, please go back to the word game. kthxbai

 

[Nordling]

I'm sorry, but when someone refers to the President as "Barry" and almost in the same breath calls themself a "moderate," I question where their thinking really lies. Do you also refer to the Democratic Party as the "Democrat Party?" These are tells. They may be coincidences in your case but they do set off quiet alarms.

We shouldn't look in the past? Surely you don't mean that. The 8 years of GWB left us in a near depression...and economic collapses like that take a long to time to dig out of--ESPECIALLY when the opposition party is purposely blocking anything that would help the economy...just the make the President look bad.

You think the President should have been in the "public sector?" You mean a businessman? Why? The government is not a business, and running it as one would be and was a disaster. And when the ONE candidate available who has such credentials is a vulture capitalist, once again...what are you really thinking?

I'll vote for the man (or woman) who seems to be in favor of helping Americans...all of us...not just the rich and powerful. Since the Green Party candidate has no chance of winning, I'll not waste my vote and will vote for the person who does have that chance and who most nearly mirrors my views.

 

[schlmoe]

I'm sorry, but when someone refers to the President as "Barry" and almost in the same breath calls themself a "moderate," I question where their thinking really lies. Do you also refer to the Democratic Party as the "Democrat Party?" These are tells. They may be coincidences in your case but they do set off quiet alarms.

We shouldn't look in the past? Surely you don't mean that. The 8 years of GWB left us in a near depression...and economic collapses like that take a long to time to dig out of--ESPECIALLY when the opposition party is purposely blocking anything that would help the economy...just the make the President look bad.

You think the President should have been in the "public sector?" You mean a businessman? Why? The government is not a business, and running it as one would be and was a disaster. And when the ONE candidate available who has such credentials is a vulture capitalist, once again...what are you really thinking?

I'll vote for the man (or woman) who seems to be in favor of helping Americans...all of us...not just the rich and powerful. Since the Green Party candidate has no chance of winning, I'll not waste my vote and will vote for the person who does have that chance and who most nearly mirrors my views.

I agree, and I appreciate your thoughtful comments.

 

[Anonymous]

WTF is going on in this thread??? :shock:

 

[Nordling]

Shlmoe. I had written up a long-winded counter polemic and trashed it instead of posting it. I've always thought you were a good guy, and still do. Anger is so damn destructive and I won't try to claim I've not allowed it to mar my judgment.

I've read what you said, and admit, you hurt my feelings. I choose not to escalate.

 

[Nordling]

WTF is going on in this thread??? :shock:

lol not sure I want to know.

 

[Anonymous]

It's too bad you had to stick your nose in where it didn't belong. This was none of your business. In addition to that, you appear to have no clue on how and when to use certain words. For example, there was no parsing going on. I took the ENTIRE sentence, then gave an explanation on why Jupiter was full of crap. I did not take it out of context or nothing of the sort. You use words incorrectly quite often, it appears that you want to add an intellecutal bent. This occurs often, and unfortunately you fail often. You do not even succeed as a pseudo-intellectual. Total fail. I won't say epic fail, because you are not capable of anything epic...except for horse manure. Yes, you are amazing at that. I would venture to say that you are so full of horse manure, that would be the explanation why you spew it every time you talk and type. So, go along little nordling. Go away, little boy. Go back to your little sandbox of the word game. Off you go, there is no room at the adult table for you.

Wow...this isn't like you. So basically, you're mad at Nordling for defending Jupiter (after you went off on him earlier too)? And all I saw was WildFingers asking over and over "Can we please get back to the discussion?," but Nordling WAS posting something related to the discussion. Did he not see that??? Your "Go away, little Nordling" rant was uncalled for and made me sick to my stomach. VIP member or not...all members of this forum should be treated with respect...not be spoken to the way you did.

Now I'll go back to my "little sandbox of The Word Game"..... :roll:

 

[Kradek]

It's too bad you had to stick your nose in where it didn't belong. This was none of your business. In addition to that, you appear to have no clue on how and when to use certain words. For example, there was no parsing going on. I took the ENTIRE sentence, then gave an explanation on why Jupiter was full of crap. I did not take it out of context or nothing of the sort. You use words incorrectly quite often, it appears that you want to add an intellecutal bent. This occurs often, and unfortunately you fail often. You do not even succeed as a pseudo-intellectual. Total fail. I won't say epic fail, because you are not capable of anything epic...except for horse manure. Yes, you are amazing at that. I would venture to say that you are so full of horse manure, that would be the explanation why you spew it every time you talk and type. So, go along little nordling. Go away, little boy. Go back to your little sandbox of the word game. Off you go, there is no room at the adult table for you.

Wow...this isn't like you. So basically, you're mad at Nordling for defending Jupiter (after you went off on him earlier too)? And all I saw was WildFingers asking over and over "Can we please get back to the discussion?," but Nordling WAS posting something related to the discussion. Did he not see that??? Your "Go away, little Nordling" rant was uncalled for and made me sick to my stomach. VIP member or not...all members of this forum should be treated with respect...not be spoken to the way you did.

Now I'll go back to my "little sandbox of The Word Game"..... :roll:

Read the rest of the OP.

How did that feel, nordling? Did you like that lesson very much? Get any warm fuzzies? Yeah, I thought so. Maybe now you can imagine how Wildfingers felt after reading your "go away little boy" speech.

He doesn't actually feel that way, he was using it to make a point. Lot of hair triggers lately without much understanding (ie. Isabella's comment yesterday). When something sounds out of character, it probably is.

 

[Bocefish]

Now that all the personal squabbling seems to be ebbing away... Fingers asked some good questions.

Why do you think Obama can do anything different? What leadership does he have to bring a bipartisan Congress together to actually get something done?

 

[Anonymous]

Read the rest of the OP.

Yeah, I read it...

It's been discussed via PM.

 

[Mirra]

Now that all the personal squabbling seems to be ebbing away... Fingers asked some good questions.

Why do you think Obama can do anything different? What leadership does he have to bring a bipartisan Congress together to actually get something done?

I personally don't think it's such a good question. I personally don't think it's up to the President so much as it is the (mostly House) members of Congress to stop acting like such stubborn children and actually start compromising. But they won't do that because the Republican Congress members' goal is still what it was in 2009. Block everything a Democrat President tries to do to make him look ineffective. I was optimistic at one point that it had backfired with all the budget deadline issues making Congress look terrible but it seems most people have forgotten that they couldn't even get on the same page on an issue that was COMPLETELY in their court at the time. Even in that situation, the President had to step in and try to talk. Even in that situation, the President made little headway and agreements were reached at the final moments when all the stress and anxiety had been milked from the situation but real damage to the country wasn't caused.

Maybe Fox News was reporting it differently (because I just refuse to watch or read their stuff) but the news organizations I observed during the multiple issues like this made it sound like the Democrats were more open to compromise and worried about the deadline. The Republicans said things like "Let it happen" and would not budge on one or two sticking points relating to spending and/or taxes.

 

[schlmoe]

Now that all the personal squabbling seems to be ebbing away... Fingers asked some good questions.

Why do you think Obama can do anything different? What leadership does he have to bring a bipartisan Congress together to actually get something done?

I personally don't think it's such a good question. I personally don't think it's up to the President so much as it is the (mostly House) members of Congress to stop acting like such stubborn children and actually start compromising. But they won't do that because the Republican Congress members' goal is still what it was in 2009. Block everything a Democrat President tries to do to make him look ineffective. I was optimistic at one point that it had backfired with all the budget deadline issues making Congress look terrible but it seems most people have forgotten that they couldn't even get on the same page on an issue that was COMPLETELY in their court at the time. Even in that situation, the President had to step in and try to talk. Even in that situation, the President made little headway and agreements were reached at the final moments when all the stress and anxiety had been milked from the situation but real damage to the country wasn't caused.

Maybe Fox News was reporting it differently (because I just refuse to watch or read their stuff) but the news organizations I observed during the multiple issues like this made it sound like the Democrats were more open to compromise and worried about the deadline. The Republicans said things like "Let it happen" and would not budge on one or two sticking points relating to spending and/or taxes.

I respectfully disagree, this is a GREAT question. It is EXACTLY the President's job to shepherd legislation through Congress to get it to his desk. He is, or needs to be the rallying point. He also needs to be point here, because Pelosi is not getting the job done. Although she is a hard worker, she is polarizing (code for unlikable, lol). This is where the President has her or every other Demo beat. You can't deny his personal charm. I think what is holding him back, is that the party bigwigs and his advisers do not want him to get his hands dirty. And that's what it's going to take. After the election, he will have nothing to lose and I hope he takes a bigger role.

There are plenty of recent examples. Bush #1. Love him or hate him, he did what it took to get the deal done. At great risk to his political career. He suffered, lost a "gimme" election, and he risked all that for the good of the country. "Read my lips". That played a large part in him losing the election, but everybody forgot that he got that budget deal done. He made compromises that screwed him over (politically). It was the right thing to do for the country, and I respect him for that. Love him or hate him, you should respect him as well.

Clinton. Here's the love him or hate him thing again. Here's a President that is in office even though he did not even win a simple majority of the popular vote. Everybody said he had no mandate from the people. He had all kinds of newts and lizards regularly biting him. There is no doubt he got a number of good bills signed into law.

How did he do it? He moved so far right of center, that he out-Bushed, Bush. Many of his policies were indistinguishable from Bush #1. By the time he was done, he had more enemies on the Dem side as on the Rep side. And he didn't give a rat's ass. He did it for what he thought was the good of the country.

Why do you think he was shut out from the Gore campaign? It wasn't all that Gore wanted to be "his own man". The DNC leadership had shifted to the very people that Clinton pissed off. He is not my favorite person or President, but he also has my respect.

So Mr. President, get this election in the bag. Then come January, roll up your sleeves and get this job done!