I drive for Lyft & Uber as a side gig from time to time and have done my own personal polling... but I'm curious to hear more viewpoints on the subject.
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Autonomous Cars
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dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
Until I know that all the bugs are worked out, I just don't trust them to not go stupid while driving.
So far, driverless cars can't go a whole mile without crashing or a human taking over. 99% of people don't want them. It sounds convenient, but what if one day it's mandatory? To outlaw driving is to outlaw freedom.
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In a perfect world, wouldn't have any problem with it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-hacking-the-cia-and-those-wikileaks-claims/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-hacking-the-cia-and-those-wikileaks-claims/
I can see drunk drivers really liking it as a new technology. Can't get arrested for drunk driving if there's no steering wheel or pedals in the car.
Also, your family member can't get killed by a drunk driver that way.
Also, your family member can't get killed by a drunk driver that way.
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As far as an interstate only thing, I think its a great idea. If it could even slightly improve rush hour fuckwittery around big cities...
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Well that’s just not true. Of the well over 1 million miles the goodie self driving cars have tested, there have only been about 14 accidents and all but one were human error where either the car was not in autonomous mode and was being drivin...or it was was
Hit by another vehicle.
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I wanted to update that my information was pretty old, I guess, havent read on them in a while but accident wise... it’s still the same story only now the google car has been operating without a safety driver in Arizona for a while now!
This is moving very fast.
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
That statement is wrong - that data is valid for maybe 5 years ago (or further back) and it also varies a lot based on the manufacturer. For example, Waymo has done several thousand miles of unassisted driving both in cities and between cities with no disengagements, but they are the ones furthest ahead on the tech (both in quality and in time spent developing it). The new entrants on the market like Uber have worse numbers, but that might not reflect the quality of their product: the safety driver can disable autonomous mode if they feel like the car is doing *anything* they feel is wrong. This in turn leads to an interesting situation - autonomous cars drive strictly within the law (which we humans don't necessarily do) and then if you add to that the fact that most people have little to no experience with autonomous cars, the safety drivers will initially disengage at a higher rate than needed. Over time, as they review the data on each disengagement case (a standard procedure), they start to understand how the car works and reduce the frequency in which they act.
As someone who also enjoys driving, I have to admit that I will miss it once there's no alternative to autonomous cars, but I can see the benefits (specially as I remember situations where I got really close to getting into nasty accidents when I missed one bit of important information around me).
For the ice/snow case - right now all self-driven cars suck because they've been tested primarily on "non-adverse" situations (places with plenty of sun and not a lot of rain), but there's a big push now to research scenarios like heavy snow and rain - last I heard, quite a few of the companies are starting to drive in snowy places (IIRC Waymo, Uber and a few more are testing in Michigan and there's a research company testing an autonomous car in northern Finland for a few months already), so I'd guess that in a year or two we will see some interesting results.
Since 2014 Google's had a small fleet of what they call their 'Koala cars,' 34 of them now. They have no wheels or pedals. Fully autonomous with zero ability for a human to take control.
I believe out of the total 4 million miles the google fleet (all their self driving cars, not just Koala's) has driven on actual public roads, there's been one accident where the Google car was at fault. It thought it was going to pull around in front of a bus, it hit the side of the bus instead. And that was years ago. Pretty much every other accident report involving them since then has been other drivers rear ending their cars. Literally only one accident was determined to be the fault of the self driving cars.
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Yes, that’s all the same info I had too.
the cars are called Waymo officially, if anyone is curious. It’s a pretty darn impressive story
Lots of people can't drive; Self Driving Cars could liberate thousands of people. Helping people retain their independence. Self Driving cars also gives people more of their day.
Isn't that what rideshare companies like Uber & Lyft are doing now?
How are autonomous cars going to help an elderly or disabled person into the car, then put their wheelchair or walker in the trunk...?
Will it help load luggage for the little old lady or businesswoman in high heels?
How is an autonomous vehicle going to understand the limitless variables like a cop directing traffic after an accident?
Not to mention a mere computer glitch can be fatal.
Puters can be hacked.
A buddy of mine has a Tesla and if he didn't take over steering, it would have taken him off a steep cliff because it couldn't distinguish elevation and wanted to drive on the road below the off ramp.
Then you have the navigation issue...
Despite all the advances... rideshare satnav still has MAJOR problems like directing drivers to turn where there are no roads, useless illegal u-turns, depth perception, alleys, etc.
There's no doubt all the greedy cost/risk/profit bean counters have accounted for the acceptable deaths and lawsuits.
Progress?
dilligaf0
V.I.P. AmberLander
As in "waymo" creepy?Yes, that’s all the same info I had too.
I don't know what scares me more, a car coming toward me with no driver, or one with a driver wearing a "maga" hat.
D
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I think I'd be way more nervous being in an autonomous car and want to pay attention in case need to retake control due to safety issues. In a bus, I do enjoy not having to drive and use that time to get a quick nap, read, etc.
Yes, and they're both developing self driving cars. Self driving cars could lower the cost.
Sure, there's going to be some people that still won't be able to use a self driving car, but check this video out. And it's 10 years old.
In addition, there's plenty of people who can get in a car but still can't drive (poor vision, narcolepsy, poor cognitive ability, etc.)
If that's a big enough issue, then sure, why not (see above video)? Pretty simple stuff compared to a lot of the robotics done today. I doubt the demand for it would justify the cost however. Could be wrong though, we'll see.
Excellent point! That seems like it's going to be a tough one for them to overcome. Even more common, construction traffic. How's it going to understand what's going on? Might have to change the way we redirect traffic in a way autonomous cars can understand. Certainly a difficult problem, but probably not insurmountable either.
So can human glitches. As long as those glitches are far less in an autonomous vehicle, then it's still improvement. Traffic deaths overall should decline. At least with computer glitches, it can be fixed. Can't fix stupid though.
Yeah, that's a scary one. Even in normal cars, the vulnerabilities discovered are rather scary (such as controlling brakes over text message). Auto manufacturers and companies that make devices for them (such as insurance trackers) seem rather oblivious to even basic security measures. While I'm sure that will improve, nothing is ever 100% secure. I don't think that will stop progress (it never does), but I definitely share your concern there.
Again, people drive off the road all the time for various reasons. If the rate of these incidents is less in an autonomous car than in human operated ones, is that not progress? I would think 100 deaths due to computer error would be preferable to 1000 deaths from human error. TBH, I don't think most will see it as preferable. Maybe because they now have a corporation to blame rather than "human error". I don't know.
Can't wait for the stories of people waking up from a nap in the wrong state.
It will certainly bring up quite a few legal issues. Especially when it comes to liability. Also brings up some moral dilemmas. Will it crash the car to save a pedestrian? What about if there's children in the car? If I'm by myself, I'd crash into a pole to avoid almost certain death for a pedestrian. If my son is in the car, then I would no longer take that risk.
I think so. Yes, there will be problems, tragedies, and things will need to be addressed. However, our current situation is far from perfect. 37,000 people per year die in the US alone from car crashes. I think autonomous vehicles can do much better.
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I love me a good bus nap. If you can sleep on a bus, you can sleep anywhere. People always ask if I'm worried that someone'll take my stuff or assault me in my sleep, but my roommate flicking a light switch in the next room wakes me up, I'll be fine.
D
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Yeah, I used to not be able to sleep on moving vehicles. But, after a nearly four day Greyhound trip, with layovers in Knoxville and Chicago, of no sleep I learned how to travel. I can fall asleep most places now if I really wanted to.
Have you ever used Waze? Waze is GPS and traffic data, If there an any kind of traffic slowdown, it just routes you around the issue. You don't even see the accident, because your taking a shortcut around it.
FYI , right now if some one tries to block a self driving car, it just routes itself around the obstruction. It will make a right, left, merge lanes. If appropriate, flip a U, perform a k turn. It really doesn't need to understand why the road is blocked, just that it is blocked.
SaffronBurke
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Oooh, it's freaking handy! It lets you know that there's a stalled vehicle on the shoulder or other obstruction, and has you confirm whether it's still there or has been removed/resolved so it can inform other users accordingly.
I'm more thinking where there's minor construction on a non-major road. You'll have only one side of the road "closed" and a flagger directing which lane can proceed. It's not enough to "go around". It needs to know when to go around. These minor things on minor roads often aren't indicated on waze. I'd be very skeptical that these types of situations can be 100% avoided. Inevitably, you're going to end up in a situation where a human is directing traffic at some point. I can also think of some areas where there is no going around or avoiding it. One road in or out (think places with bridges to get to it). Obvious example is the florida keys. No going around that. In addition, there's many more cases where an alternate route can be much longer. I can think of some instances in the southwest where taking a different route adds 2+ hours to a 20 minute drive.
In fact, it's actually a big enough (and difficult enough) of a problem that Nissan is planing to have remote "call centers" where someone sitting behind a computer will take over driving your car for you.
https://www.wired.com/2017/02/self-driving-cars-cant-even-construction-zones/
Because you're supposed to be napping or playing words with friends? I dunno. I thought that was a little ridiculous myself. I think I'd trust an autonomous car over my driving being outsourced.
I could give a rats ass soaping up if the deaths are lowered...
There's no flippin' way I'm EVER trusting a computer with my physical safety without a human failsafe being directly involved.
I think it's a great idea for places like the autobahn or similar straightforward highway type routes, other than that, not for me.
Why bother? It's probably not worth it for the cost and hassle of going autonomous. Trains are already hundreds of times more labor efficient than trucks/cars. A freight train can carry 10,000 tons of cargo. A large semi truck, 26 tons. A freight train only takes 2 people to operate. A train goes through tens of thousands of dollars worth of fuel per day. A train operator costs $250/day. Labor is very insignificant relative to it's operating costs, especially when compared to a truck. In addition, there are far, far fewer train operators than truck drivers/car drivers so the total amount saved (if any) is a fraction of what it would be with cars/trucks. Not to mention, the cost of a train + cars could be tens of millions of dollars carrying tens of millions of dollars worth of cargo. Even if they do go autonomous, given the relative cost of labor vs the cost of the train + cargo, it's probably still worth it to have someone on board. It doesn't make sense to try and save $250/day operating something worth 50 million dollars that's costing tens of thousands per day to operate.
Bottom line, there just isn't nearly as much to be gained with autonomous trains as there are with autonomous trucks and cars. As a result, it's not really much of a priority. I'm not in favor of going autonomous for the sake of going autonomous. The benefit has to be there. In this instance, going with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to apply.
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