Camsites, modeling and mental health

[ericlafayet]

People have to want help to accept it.

Good point.

So...
People that needs help and want to work on it, will get help itself.
People that needs help and don't accept anything, will ignore your help.

 

[ericlafayet]

Good point.

So...
People that needs help and want to work on it, will get help itself.
People that needs help and don't accept anything, will ignore your help.

This is not comparing with modeling/camsits, just a nice example of people giving help and support, it just came to my mind, and wanted to share:

here in spain there's a group/association about drugs, they're on many music festivals around the country, giving information of substances and how affects us, helping people to resovle doubts, also testing the composition if anyone wants to know what they're consuming. And of course helping if anyone wants to work on any addiction.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

That is a great example. I am aware of similar groups here. Having a community to discuss safe use is very helpful. This forum functions a bit like that, even. In your example, it is not dealers or festival grounds directly forming these groups as their professional entities I imagine, probably volunteers from the community who have personal expertise.

 

[ArcticKitty]

People who visit/join adult cam sites are a self-selected group and I personally believe that mental illness is significantly more common among them than in the general population. I expect that men who suffer from clinical depression and loneliness are very common on cam sites. Then of course there are men who have issues with women such as narcissistic misogynists, including incels and sociopaths. They are heavy users of all forms of adult entertainment and cams really draw them because there is an actual woman interacting in real time on screen. People with severe mental illnesses are probably over-represented too.

But I don't think that there is much that the webcam industry can do about this even if there was a desire to. Depression, loneliness and social anxiety are very common and cam sites/models are not a substitute for medication and/or therapy but they don''t claim to be. And people with antisocial personality disorder are less likely than normal people to seek mental health help and more likely to be substance abusers. And they all had these problems before they joined a cam site.

 

[AmberCutie]

People who visit/join adult cam sites are a self-selected group and I personally believe that mental illness is significantly more common among them than in the general population. I expect that men who suffer from clinical depression and loneliness are very common on cam sites. Then of course there are men who have issues with women such as narcissistic misogynists, including incels and sociopaths. They are heavy users of all forms of adult entertainment and cams really draw them because there is an actual woman interacting in real time on screen. People with severe mental illnesses are probably over-represented too.

But I don't think that there is much that the webcam industry can do about this even if there was a desire to. Depression, loneliness and social anxiety are very common and cam sites/models are not a substitute for medication and/or therapy but they don''t claim to be. And people with antisocial personality disorder are less likely than normal people to seek mental health help and more likely to be substance abusers. And they all had these problems before they joined a cam site.

I agree with all of this. It isn't a knock on cam site users, it's just that it's more likely that people with a mental illness turn to cam models for fulfillment of things they're not adept enough to reach out for in person.

 

[ArcticKitty]

I agree with all of this. It isn't a knock on cam site users, it's just that it's more likely that people with a mental illness turn to cam models for fulfillment of things they're not adept enough to reach out for in person.

Indeed. I want to be very clear that I'm Not making a cut on cam site users. Or mental illness. I try to be understanding and I like to think I'm sympathetic. (Except for women-hating sociopaths who I really can't stand because they are so toxic.)

 

[rockin_rod]

People who visit/join adult cam sites are a self-selected group and I personally believe that mental illness is significantly more common among them than in the general population. I expect that men who suffer from clinical depression and loneliness are very common on cam sites. Then of course there are men who have issues with women such as narcissistic misogynists, including incels and sociopaths. They are heavy users of all forms of adult entertainment and cams really draw them because there is an actual woman interacting in real time on screen. People with severe mental illnesses are probably over-represented too.

But I don't think that there is much that the webcam industry can do about this even if there was a desire to. Depression, loneliness and social anxiety are very common and cam sites/models are not a substitute for medication and/or therapy but they don''t claim to be. And people with antisocial personality disorder are less likely than normal people to seek mental health help and more likely to be substance abusers. And they all had these problems before they joined a cam site.

It's an interesting subject for contemplation, because there is a further layer to just a group of people who join and visit cam sites. By that, I mean you can pick any one of hundreds of rooms and find that (using CB as a reference site) there's only maybe 5-10% users that can spend, 30-40% grey users and the remainder are anonymous. So typically the vast majority of that online community watches in total silence and there is no interaction whatsoever. Most of the chat comes from the coloured users, and the grays that don't get auto- or manually-muted for pouring out crap constantly. So when we see examples of poor behaviour, that's generally confined to a small percentage of the overall room count.
Somewhat related to the original question - I work in the construction industry, and years ago recall a survey that suggested a very high proportion of manual construction workers had a criminal record, including jail time. People seemed to get very excited about the statistics at the time, and were jumping to lots of conclusions about the industry producing criminals. But it failed to give consideration to the fact that by nature, some industries attract a disproportionate gender and education-level bias, and so that would skew the numbers on a more diagonal representation of all employment sectors.
Also, if you did a similar exercise in surveying workers, you'd probably find similar patterns across mining, agriculture, transport and others. And of course, those numbers were assuming that 100% of those questioned replied honestly about their prior history - likely the true figure was even higher than the survey suggested.

 

[ericlafayet]

Yep, correlation not means causality.

 

[AmberCutie]

Yep, correlation not means causality.


View attachment 92636

Are you looking for the phrase "correlations does not equal causation"?

 

[ericlafayet]

Are you looking for the phrase "correlations does not equal causation"?

That's it. Thanks

 

[ArcticKitty]

@rockin_rod , I wasn't aware of the distribution among site visitors on CB. But the problems come from the people who actually register with an account on a cam site so naturally the focus is confined to members by definition, no?


(Pardon my ignorance but I'm only familiar with MFC, which I joined a little over a month ago. I joined ACF before that.)

*not counting the guests on MFC who can troll if they're not muted by the model.

 

[rockin_rod]

@rockin_rod , I wasn't aware of the distribution among site visitors on CB. But the problems come from the people who actually register with an account on a cam site so naturally the focus is confined to members by definition, no?


(Pardon my ignorance but I'm only familiar with MFC, which I joined a little over a month ago. I joined ACF before that.)

*not counting the guests on MFC who can troll if they're not muted by the model.

I'm really not sure, but even before this thread, I was thinking about the fact that such a high % of all users in a room are anonymous, or not contributing.
Some of the motivation to remain under the radar may be for financial reasons, and some of it (at least) may be linked to some form of social dysfunction, IDK.
But although there are 2 separate groups - visible/vocal and invisible/silent - it's impossible to say if one or other group is potentially more representative of social dysfunction than the other, nor of a more general population.
Just an interesting thing to ponder, because (as mentioned) whenever we see visible signs of poor behaviour, it's usually over-representing the visible/vocal group.
And I really don't want to dwell on my own mental imagery of what the invisible/silent group are really up to while they watch........

 

[ArcticKitty]

I'm really not sure, but even before this thread, I was thinking about the fact that such a high % of all users in a room are anonymous, or not contributing.
Some of the motivation to remain under the radar may be for financial reasons, and some of it (at least) may be linked to some form of social dysfunction, IDK.
But although there are 2 separate groups - visible/vocal and invisible/silent - it's impossible to say if one or other group is potentially more representative of social dysfunction than the other, nor of a more general population.
Just an interesting thing to ponder, because (as mentioned) whenever we see visible signs of poor behaviour, it's usually over-representing the visible/vocal group.
And I really don't want to dwell on my own mental imagery of what the invisible/silent group are really up to while they watch........

Oh, I think I see what you mean now. Yes, I can imagine that the lurkers may well have a higher likelihood of social dysfunction than the actives. And that financial reasons are a contributing factor because most members would have to be somewhat functional to be able to afford to spend.

Well, that and cheap bastards who want free wank fodder!

 

[ericlafayet]

Oh, I think I see what you mean now. Yes, I can imagine that the lurkers may well have a higher likelihood of social dysfunction than the actives. And that financial reasons are a contributing factor because most members would have to be somewhat functional to be able to afford to spend.

Well, that and cheap bastards who want free wank fodder!

The thread is getting some weird when the message now is that those people with mental heath issues will be users with less money. To mee that point of view sounds like a kind of classist stereotype. I would like to see references that concludes your afirmation.

But let me be clear with with that: mental health/disorders don't care about your money. Actually those few cases you can red in the forum, users spent several money. Also a case I know about in SC, also he has no financial problems.

 

[ArcticKitty]

Not classicist. Rockin_Rod specifically said social dysfunction, which can reasonably be inferred to have a correlation with income and employability problems. And inappropriate social behaviours are an indicator of a number of psychiatric disorders.

The anecdotal instances we can see on sites and right here in ACF, including two people who were banned just today, are visible examples of people with money and a behavioural disorder.

 

[AmberCutie]

the message now is that those people with mental heath issues will be users with less money. To mee that point of view sounds like a kind of classist stereotype. I would like to see references that concludes your afirmation.

But let me be clear with with that: mental health/disorders don't care about your money. Actually those few cases you can red in the forum, users spent several money.

I may have skimmed over some posts but I think overall we users and models know that isn't the case. Sometimes people with an abundant hobby income plus some sort of social dysfunction (could be caused by any mental illness) are some of the biggest spenders on cam sites.

 

[ArcticKitty]

I'm thinking also of income inequality and health, which includes mental health. Earlier, I mentioned depression and anxiety, which are extremely common. They are often normal responses to economic insecurity caused by income and wealth inequality and social stratification, as I'm sure you know.

 

[AmberCutie]

I'm thinking also of income inequality and health, which includes mental health. Earlier, I mentioned depression and anxiety, which are extremely common. They are often normal responses to economic insecurity caused by income and wealth inequality and social stratification, as I'm sure you know.

You have a point as well.

 

[ArcticKitty]

You have a point as well.

I was just about to add that it goes without saying that people who are affluent can have mental illnesses too, of course.

 

[ArcticKitty]

Ms. Amber, is it a common occurrence for a user with a lot of money to be abusive and manipulative to a model and do so over a prolonged period? It seems to me that this would be a thing.

 

[ericlafayet]

I may have skimmed over some posts but I think overall we users and models know that isn't the case. Sometimes people with an abundant hobby income plus some sort of social dysfunction (could be caused by any mental illness) are some of the biggest spenders on cam sites.

Thanks Amber

 

[ericlafayet]

I'm thinking also of income inequality and health, which includes mental health. Earlier, I mentioned depression and anxiety, which are extremely common. They are often normal responses to economic insecurity caused by income and wealth inequality and social stratification, as I'm sure you know.

I would like to see references that concludes your afirmation.

I did find some interesting reserach articles on that, and seems that Kitty was right. But, it's there's different conclusions as there's lots of variables.

Here's is a research article from Cambridge that describes studies and conclusions, abou relationship between low social class/poverty and mental health.

Good reading here.

Poverty, social inequality and mental health | Advances in Psychiatric Treatment | Cambridge Core

Poverty, social inequality and mental health - Volume 10 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

 

[MarieElise]

Omg dare I even ask what happened here yesterday/today, to spark this convo?

 

[ArcticKitty]

Omg dare I even ask what happened here yesterday/today, to spark this convo?

I thought it was this thread:

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/curious-about-past-experiences-with-a-host.43710/

 

[InAweOfCB]

Hi,

Do you thing there is a relation between mental heath issues and modeling users? I mean, looking at the forum reading experiences, or just meeting some other users on SC, it's easy to notice that there're users on sites that needs help with its mental health. (I could include myself).

Is it a thing? If so, I think that joining camsites as a place to find some "peace", just as a patch, and having not to deal with the problem.

I'm just doing questions, I see some patterns on some users behaviours. I'm not psychologist or doctor, so maybe I'm wrong and they (we) are all super good and we're just having fun adding some drama.

Or maybe it's a thing that we need to give a thought.

Leaping in / (guessing) (before reading any of the other responses)


I don't know how one could achieve a truly scientific study which would conclude as much.

It may be true that those drawn TO webcam modeling are more steadily from some subset of people who are more prone to knowing mental health issues, but I think in that case the webcam modeling part would be a mere tiny "symptom" and not independently any sort of a 'problem'.


I suspect the greatest hurdle to webcam modeling for the random (North American woman) is the considerable worry that ones work will be recorded and certainly discovered by those very near to her "real life". Thus it seems realistic that a common trait among active webcam models is a reduced concern over that eventuality. And MAYbe that is derived more often from fewer ties to family and/or to communities where those models grew-up... and it could be for tangents to THOSE factors that there might be a greater overlap between those with mental health issues and those working in the cam model world.

Or it might be a function of convenience... and the chance that it is a greater challenge for so afflicted individuals to carve out a suitable 9-to-5 routine, so they in slightly-greater numbers instead find and adapt to cam model life where you can perhaps work when you want to, and on your own schedule.

My initial impulse is to vote that there is no direct correlation between cam model life and mental health concerns.


But outside factors... even, like, perhaps a religious upbringing clashing in ones mind with the cam model routine... could at times make it feel like a cause of mental health issues.

 

[MarieElise]

I thought it was this thread:

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/curious-about-past-experiences-with-a-host.43710/

Thanks, I skim read it backward, from the end. Then decided better of it.
It got too weird.
Even for me...
Never made it to the first page, however, I do love the idea of some priest somewhere wearing women's underwear hahahahahahahahahaha rotfl.

 

[AmberCutie]

Ms. Amber, is it a common occurrence for a user with a lot of money to be abusive and manipulative to a model and do so over a prolonged period? It seems to me that this would be a thing.

I haven't had that experience, can't speak in the general sense about it.

 

[InAweOfCB]

Oh, I think I did explain my point so bad. Of course the responsibility falls in each one. Actually that's part of the pattern I was trying to explain. Sorry for the confusion.

So, some members (here in the forum you can find some cases) and also in SC I me a couple of members with similar issues, and my question is if it could be a relation between mental heath issues and joining camsites, as trying to scape from the problem. And I can put myself here.

Do I join camsites because I find to have fun, or the fact I do that here and not socializing outside it's something I have to deal? (Other members explained so more relevant and critical issues, mine is nothing comparing).

Hope this clarifies my question.

LOL - well, I don't feel (wrong) for not having read much of the rest of the thread before leaping to reply.

But now I know what you're getting at... the viewers, in general... (and in some cases: "what brings them here?" )


I guess from an early age we're all told: the "vision" for life is to finish school, get a good job, marry someone, and have kids, etc etc etc.

Everyone in the same class in 4th grade gets the same sex education... but then the natural human selection process takes over, and SOME individuals are sure to be left-out in the match-making world... some for genetic reasons, and some for reasons of their own creation.


Some truly don't know how to talk to women, some are just a little off (in harmless fashion)... and many cam viewers of today are of an age where they once had to make an effort to go and buy a porn magazine... and then there was an expense to calling 976-Babe... and then most of the better porn websites in the infancy of the internet were of the pay variety.

Not to mention the should-be-studied-in-depth factor that was porn in the old days being limited to those physical specimens which reached adulthood 2 or 7 from every high school of 1000, with the surrounding mainstream media perhaps only interested in those above the 95% percentile for attractiveness.... having now and suddenly morphed into most every woman you see at the mall is a POTENTIAL candidate for webcam modeling. The sudden inclusion of maybe 15 times as many candidates for admiring nude feminine form just floods the male mind in a great way, especially so because the mainstream media has been effectively hiding such women almost as much as old school porn (ignored) them.

I remember a college classmate in a Calculus class, who was smart enough to be taking that course, but he was still a bit "off" somehow... his conversations with women were awkward (although never "inappropriate" by today's measure)... it was just... entirely predictable... every time... that this probably-decent-enough man would turn the subject toward... earrings !!

And while I see earrings as an occasionally pleasant accessory, I can't fathom every talking about them. But this guy was fixated on earrings...


So imagine that sort of an "off" individual, now suddenly flooded to the point of sensory-overload with what seems to be raw sexuality right in front of his eyes (times 5000+ potential cameras a night).

And not only that, but these aren't the posed centerfolds of the 1980's... who are posed for that ultra-perfect snapshot, and rather inanimate beyond that.

These are random women, each of whom seems to be exuding confidence now, and adding that way to her own beauty and appeal. The media seldom before ever let you see them that way... so suddenly your male mind wants to drink it all up. (consider for two seconds the difference between a "shower show" at a strip club {bright lights, better water pressure, and perhaps not any soap}... and a "shower show" on webcam... {where she actually SHAVES during the shower... uses her products in every way... does her feminine routine - which you've never seen before}. She seems SO much more comfortable and "human" than did the centerfold of years before, and you're just overwhelmed.


You never could talk to women... and now, at no immediate cost, you are faced with any of thousands of women, lots of whom are completely bare at first glance... and possibly there has never been a single spot on the whole entire planet we share with a parallel variety of individuals RIGHT THERE in front of you... so many SO very appealing merely for their uniqueness.


Some of us want to study all of the wonderful details... and others... many of whom made up that giant number of decent-minded, respectful men who were all but ruled-out of the social mating game for reasons beyond their own control... are just confronted by images of real women, some of those images they may crave far more than they did "Miss December" of 1988... mostly for their shared casual "real-(human)-ness".


THEN magnify THAT by (living human females) being in environs where they CAN be safe WHILE being their naked, comfortable selves... and witness those women seeming more amazing than any of them used to seem when you were gazing across the aisles in high school geometry class.


(then magnify all of that by language hurdles and barriers... and local customs seeming vastly different halfway across the world)... and maybe some even-more-"decent"-than-some-of-my-examples men don't know how to conduct themselves suitably in cam model chat)


So some just keep repeating:


"Open Bobs"


While others keep using terms they heard their fathers use for women...




I don't think the whole of male society is entirely used to this amazing avenue for admiring women to degrees never before approached by humankind.

And IF you could factor-out the various effects I've just sorta listed... then the REMAINING numbers of humans in cam model chat who DO have mental health issues might only be slightly greater than that number for the outside everyday society.


(but I'm sure that won't help you when your entire chat screen is pasted with "Open Bobs" <or worse> for 250 chat lines in a row)

 

[ArcticKitty]

I did find some interesting reserach articles on that, and seems that Kitty was right. But, it's there's different conclusions as there's lots of variables.

Here's is a research article from Cambridge that describes studies and conclusions, abou relationship between low social class/poverty and mental health.

Good reading here.

Poverty, social inequality and mental health | Advances in Psychiatric Treatment | Cambridge Core

Poverty, social inequality and mental health - Volume 10 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

I didn't think that what I said was controversial, actually. I thought if was generally known. Anyway, the dependent relationship between Gini coefficients and average life expectancy is pretty clear.

 

[ArcticKitty]

Thanks, I skim read it backward, from the end. Then decided better of it.
It got too weird.
Even for me...
Never made it to the first page, however, I do love the idea of some priest somewhere wearing women's underwear hahahahahahahahahaha rotfl.

I was thinking more of the hoot and holler kind of church.