Colin Kaepernick: I'm not anti-American

[Protocosmo]

I know that ritual displays of patriotism at sporting events has its roots in the first world war or some such but it still makes no fucking sense to me. I guess it's useful for creating tizzies with the establishment.

 

[yummybrownfox]

It's bizarre to me that certain groups *cough conservatives cough* think that they are the authority on how one should behave as an American citizen.

I kid you not...I once saw a group of people on Facebook ranting about how they HATE it when us young folks wear red, white, and blue clothing on July 4th, because it just shows that we "have no respect for this country." Um...come again??? LOL. I've heard about these "rules" where you must not ever let the U.S. flag touch the ground and this and that. But bitching because I wear my red, white, and blue t-shirt on July 4th? Fuck outta here. How the hell is that disrespecting this country? People are nuts, I tell ya. And guess what...it's after midnight here and now September 11th. If I feel like wearing my red, white, and blue t-shirt today, I damn sure will.

 

[EmiliaSong]

I talked to a dude that said BLM and organizations like it should partake in more quiet peaceful protests(he used sit ins as an example). I asked "like not standing during the national anthem?" *crickets*

Having been part of a sit-in style protest, I must say that occupying space in a way that inconveniences others is far more disruptive than kneeling during the National Anthem. I don't think that dude knows what a sit in actually is.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Retired Adm. Bill McRaven, the former head of U.S. Special Operations Command and Navy SEAL who commanded the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, in his role as chancellor of the University of Texas system called on U-T athletics managers to urge athletes to stand up straight, hand over heart, during the national anthem .

Here is the memo he sent out.

TO: Presidents and Athletic Directors, The University of Texas System

From: William H. McRaven

As most of you recall, last January I sent out a letter asking you to encourage your coaching staff and your players to stand up straight when the National Anthem was played. I requested that the coaches and the players "face the flag and place their hand over their heart as a sign of respect to the nation."

I made it clear that honoring the flag does not imply that the republic for which it stands is perfect. I said "Far from it, honoring the flag is our collective commitment that we will constantly attempt to get better as a nation, to improve as a people, and to use the freedoms that we have been given to make the earth a better place."

I spent 37 years defending freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Nothing is more important to this democracy. Nothing! However, while no one should be compelled to stand, they should recognize that by sitting in protest to the flag they are disrespecting everyone who sacrificed to make this country what it is today -- as imperfect as it might be.

Those that believe the flag represents oppression should remember all the Americans who fought to eliminate bigotry, racism, sexism, imperialism, communism, and terrorism. The flag rode with the Buffalo Soldiers of the 9th, 10th, 24th and 25 Cavalry and Infantry Regiments. It was carried by the suffragists down the streets of New York City. It flew with the Tuskegee Airmen of WWII. It was planted in the fields where Cesar Chavez spoke. It marched with Martin Luther King Jr. It rocketed into space on the shoulder patches of women, gay, Hispanic, Asian and African American astronauts. Today, it waves high over the White House. It is a flag for everyone, of every color, of every race, of every creed, and every orientation, but the privilege of living under this flag does not come without cost. Nor should it come without respect.

The nation and everything it strives for is embodied in the American Flag. We strive to be more inclusive. We strive to be more understanding. We strive to fix the problems that plague our society. But in striving to do so, we must have a common bond; some symbol that reminds us of our past struggles and propels us to a brighter, more enlightened future. That symbol is the American flag.

I would, once again, ask the Presidents and the Athletic Directors to convey my message to your teams. The young student-athletes are the future leaders of this nation. By showing respect for the flag, they are making it possible for America to be everything we dreamed it could be.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Retired Adm. Bill McRaven, the former head of U.S. Special Operations Command and Navy SEAL who commanded the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, in his role as chancellor of the University of Texas system called on U-T athletics managers to urge athletes to stand up straight, hand over heart, during the national anthem .

Here is the memo he sent out.

I hope they tell him to step right the hell off. In deed, not in word.

 

[DFT]

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" that fictionalized quote from Jefferson - isn't that the lofty goal we're coming from? (similar nice idea with that bogus quote ascribed to Franklin)

To me he's just as false a pied piper as Trump. And yet look who we're talking about and what we're not talking about. I apologize for adding to that.

2₵

 

[AmberCutie]

Witnessing this in person yesterday (Dolphins players kneeling) I realized something: football players kneel when their fellow team mates are hurt on the field. Are they showing disrespect then, too?



I guess I feel like there are worse ways to behave during the National Anthem.

 

[Gen]

Witnessing this in person yesterday (Dolphins players kneeling) I realized something: football players kneel when their fellow team mates are hurt on the field. Are they showing disrespect then, too?



I guess I feel like there are worse ways to behave during the National Anthem.

Yeah, I feel kneeling is a non-disruptive way to make a point. It's not ruining the anthem for those who want to stand or sing. I'm not sure I could think of a less obtrusive or disrespectful protest, honestly.

 

[AmberCutie]

Yeah, I feel kneeling is a non-disruptive way to make a point. It's not ruining the anthem for those who want to stand or sing. I'm not sure I could think of a less obtrusive or disrespectful protest, honestly.

Seeing the pics of others who actually "sat" (on their butts, looking put off) that looked more disrespectful than this, at least. But overall I'm sorta neither here nor there with the whole topic, so that's really all the input I had for this thread.

 

[Mikey_P]

In that pic there's a player kneeling with his hand on his heart! I wonder what do the conservative Pharisees have to say about that?

 

[Mikey_P]

Retired Adm. Bill McRaven, the former head of U.S. Special Operations Command and Navy SEAL who commanded the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, in his role as chancellor of the University of Texas system called on U-T athletics managers to urge athletes to stand up straight, hand over heart, during the national anthem .

Here is the memo he sent out.

How does not standing disrespect everyone who has fought to protect America?

Why do we make the false assumption and perpetuate the idea that every soldier has fought to protect Americans and our freedom? I don't think that Iraq 1/2 or Vietnam protected Americans. I don't think my cousin's husband who spent all his time pimping the gov't for education money and playing in the army band protected Americans...

I hate that statement, it is one of supreme non-thinking, especially since most of our wars and entanglements have nothing to do with our freedom or protection but something far more complicated--- hegemony, positional play and money.

I hate being asked to support something that our wars and soldiers probably haven't truly fought for since WW2. I also think that the Republican dominated legislature has done far more to disrespect our soldiers than a couple of athletes taking a knee or sitting during the anthem. Conservatives are the ones who cut VA benefits, the ones who refused to put more money towards mental healthcare for veterans even after learning how high their suicide rate is after coming back from war! and they are the ones who denied the veteran jobs bill that would have put veterans to work. It is the blowhard conservatives who are always talking about sending our soldiers to war, who are always telling us to respect the soldiers, who end up doing them the most harm.

Watch the 3 conservatives dislike this post without actually refuting the truth in it!!!

 

[newbbgurl]

It's funny I just had to write a paper on celebrity philanthropy and one of the biggest things people don't realize is that compared to most major philanthropists, celebrities don't make that much. Ofc they'te still making millions but those millions don't compare to the hundreds of millions nay billions earned by a lot of philanthropists. The largest platform celebrities have is just that, their celebrity. By using his celebrity to champion a cause he personally believes in, he has made a far greater impact than if he had simply donated.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

This thrills me to death.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/kansas-city-chiefs-marcus-peters-raises-fist-anthem/story?id=42014459

So maybe this is bigger than one opportunist.

 

[n_i_c_u]

I don't know if this means anything to the discussion, but the South Park dudes did a song parody (how they do it so quickly, I don't know):



I don't know anything about it so I won't comment. I do have to admit that they do a pretty good job at social commentary on all levels. They seem to be pretty dead-on usually.

 

[zippypinhead]

(how they do it so quickly, I don't know):

This is a huge tangent to the discussion, but there's a documentary that explains the very process of how they do it so quickly, called 6 Days to Air: The Making of South Park and it's really very interesting.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I don't know if this means anything to the discussion, but the South Park dudes did a song parody (how they do it so quickly, I don't know):

It probably helps when none of the words make sense or are even understandable. Even turning on the closed captions I had no idea what they were saying.

 

[fandango]

I thought the episode did it quite cleverly. I'll put in a spoiler for people who havent watched yet and want to.

Spoiler: South park episode spoiler

Its interesting that the song didn't actually make it into the episode. Instead they just played the same anthem and the announcer said "As a mark of respect please stand, or sit, or take a knee as we play the national anthem". Leaving everyone totally confused and no one could tell who was being respectful or protesting, which I thought was pretty clever and funny

 

[n_i_c_u]

It probably helps when none of the words make sense or are even understandable. Even turning on the closed captions I had no idea what they were saying.

I get what you are saying. It is a tough one to follow.

I love when they have guest singers for the National Anthem and they mess the words in the song up. Everybody is supposed to know the song and know the meaning and the history and all that stuff, but still, it continues to get butchered live (and sung badly too a lot of times). Ask me to recite it or the the pledge of allegiance, or even the hail mary prayer and I'm lost. Ask me to sing those works or even recite them and I am the biggest commie on the planet.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Ask me to recite it or the the pledge of allegiance, or even the hail mary prayer and I'm lost. Ask me to sing those works or even recite them and I am the biggest commie on the planet.

I used to be able to sing the anthem, but I can't remember half the words now.

Yet, despite not having followed the belief system in over a decade, I could rattle off the Hail Mary and Our Father anytime.

 

[n_i_c_u]

Yet, despite not having followed the belief system in over a decade, I could rattle off the Hail Mary and Our Father anytime.

I mentioned the Hail Mary because of the football reference (loved Roger Staubauch)-lol. Still, I don't know why mantras everyone is supposed to know and I have grown up with and repeated many many times don't mean anything to me and I can't remember them. Even the processions are aggravatingly annoying: Stand at attention to a song that half the audience doesn't know the words or meaning of (even though we are supposed to be all patriotic and religious and stuff). It's funny to witness at social events and to partake in (remove your hat men!): "Oh say can you see by the dawns early light the blah blah blah or the blah parts remain oh full of grace the lord is with thee, in heaven for art now and will be, world without end, AMEN." Maybe they can make it a rule that the players have to recite the National Anthem from memory before every season to make the team?

I don't know if it means anything to the discussion, but I do own an Almost complete collection of Captain America comics (before marvel rebooted) and I do try to follow those values that that character represented. He never really got caught up in the small stuff (like the kneeling thing) for some thing.

 

[Bocefish]

I call bullshit on these overpaid athletes that choose to make a personal statement while wearing a team uniform.

 

[Mila_]

This was an interesting interview...

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Jesse summed it up.

 

[yummybrownfox]

^Kind of difficult to take Lil' Wayne seriously. Lol. I mean, the dude had a song lyric bragging about how he would "beat that pussy up like Emmett Till." Smh.

 

[Eve_Hoover]

Yeah LiL Wayne is not an activist. He is not the black Lorax, he does not speak for the black trees lol. He is an artist and most artist have a disconnect from reality which affords them the ability to create such unique works of art. I applaud him for taking the interview though, as many artists shy away from matters such as these.

I have found that many people of other races tend to find a black person that disagrees with the masses and highly promote that idea. That is fine because that is their right to do so although, it will not eliminate the largely supported idea. Facts have always out weighed opinion and will continue to do so. No one likes change when they're comfortable;That being said if someone decides to protest until change occurs it is because they have never completely felt comfortable.

I believe the constitution was put in place to provide U.S. citizens with basic comforts and freedoms. Those people that serve, fight for those as well. Kapernick's protest should be an eye opener to service members. He is only as much of an opportunist as we allow him to be. The media promotes what is popular and gets the most interest. Turn your interest away from him and you'll be stripping him of the opportunity.

To me his name has only a football bearing, it is the cause that I respect

 

[Bocefish]

I kid you not...I once saw a group of people on Facebook ranting about how they HATE it when us young folks wear red, white, and blue clothing on July 4th, because it just shows that we "have no respect for this country." Um...come again??? LOL. I've heard about these "rules" where you must not ever let the U.S. flag touch the ground and this and that. But bitching because I wear my red, white, and blue t-shirt on July 4th? Fuck outta here. How the hell is that disrespecting this country? People are nuts, I tell ya. And guess what...it's after midnight here and now September 11th. If I feel like wearing my red, white, and blue t-shirt today, I damn sure will.

Yeah, I dunno what's up their collective azzes, but you were doing the right thing. The only guideline I can think of that even comes close to that is you're not supposed to wear the flag as apparel. Hopefully, somebody educated the ignoramuses.

 

[Mila_]

Yeah LiL Wayne is not an activist. He is an artist and most artist have a disconnect from reality which affords them the ability to create such unique works of art. I applaud him for taking the interview though, as many artists shy away from matters such as these.

Why do people who feel the same way you do about Lil' Wayne do validate political ideas when they come from other artists like Beyoncé and Lena Dunham? Is "disconnected" an euphemism for dissent?

 

[Eve_Hoover]

View attachment 65736

Why do people who feel the same way you do about Lil' Wayne do validate political ideas when they come from other artists like Beyoncé and Lena Dunham? Is "disconnected" an euphemism for dissent?

I have no idea. I don't even know who Lena Dunham is. I take it because you say, people who think like me, you don't think like me.

As far as "disconnected" being a euphemism for dissent", if I didn't know any better I'd say this was a debate.

I rarely use euphemisms for anything.I'm actually very blunt (I'm sure that is no surprise) "disconnected" was referring to a largely researched fact that creative geniuses have detachments from reality. Such as: Kurt Cobain, Micheal Jackson, David Bowie, Jimi hendrix etc.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Such as: Kurt Cobain, Micheal Jackson, David Bowie, Jimi hendrix etc.

Prince

 

[Bocefish]

Prince

Oh ya... well...

Opacification aumf