Debate on Language, Flags... Stuff...

[Nordling]

holy moly!!!!

coupla thoughts about language, flags....stuff
1/ lotta members don't read profiles on mfc...i've seen too many speak to foreign models without a clue that their speaking to someone whose english skills are rudimentary....it tends to be a pretty america-centric site
2/ lotta members don't speak english as their first language on some of the other sites i know....those sites tend to use the british flag, imo, because it's "closer to home"....either geographically or culturally
3/ i'm guessing that for some guys, it feels pretty cool/romantic/exotic/whatever to say something nice to a model in a language she may not know....the same way guys think it endears them to a model to say something in their native language, if it's not english
4/within limits that have been discussed in depth across this forum....the old adage that the "customer is always right" holds true for videochat too.....sure it can be frustrating to have some clown talking ad nauseum in a language you don't know, and the chances are he knows enough english to understand the words "speak english"....if it's worth the trouble (i.e. there's tokens showing :lol: ), you can try and figure out a way to work it out with him.....or you can ignore him or ban his cul/culo/cur/задница

sorry...i guess i'm just not getting the importance of this :twocents-02cents:

It's not important. lol But arguing is fun.

When I was new to MFC I went into a Bulgarian model's room. She spoke little English so I tried using google translate and talk to her. One line of translated Bulgarian and she screamed "SPEAK ENGLISH!"

Her point was, she was here to make money and speaking Bulgarian would scare more people away than a bare breast would attract tippers.

 

[Shaun__]

You do realize the Germanic refers to Northern Europe extending up into Scandanavia and has NO links to Germany as we know it? bar the fact it is where the country derived its name

You know tribes used to run around before people decided countries were a great idea, and none of the modern countries have much to do with the past right?

Your Quote from earlier to which I was replying, in case there is some confusion:

The country of origin would be Germany, so that makes no sense at all.

I took issue with the fact you claimed the origin of the English language was Germany, when no such country existed, in fact Germany was only declared a Republic in 1918. The Germanic peoples is a generic term covering most of Northern Europe during the Roman Empire and encompasses many languages.

So the country of origin would be the Roman Empire? What did their flag look like?

 

[sweetiebatman]

You do realize the Germanic refers to Northern Europe extending up into Scandanavia and has NO links to Germany as we know it? bar the fact it is where the country derived its name

You know tribes used to run around before people decided countries were a great idea, and none of the modern countries have much to do with the past right?

Your Quote from earlier to which I was replying, in case there is some confusion:

The country of origin would be Germany, so that makes no sense at all.

I took issue with the fact you claimed the origin of the English language was Germany, when no such country existed, in fact Germany was only declared a Republic in 1918. The Germanic peoples is a generic term covering most of Northern Europe during the Roman Empire and encompasses many languages.

So the country of origin would be the Roman Empire? What did there flag look like?

Thats an Empire not a Country.. and Northern Europe was not controlled by the Romans in the main, The Ottaman Empire to the East and the Gauls, in fact mainland Britain was their main conquest and one that did not last long until they were drove out..

 

[bob]

.....I was bored. I also had a headache and wanted to yell at someone.

:lol: ok....that's works :thumbleft:

 

[Shaun__]

Thats an Empire not a Country.. and Northern Europe was not controlled by the Romans in the main, The Ottaman Empire to the East and the Gauls, in fact mainland Britain was their main conquest and one that did not last long until they were drove out..

Was there a main language for the tribes in what is now the UK or did they have several? Do people still speak it/them? Just wondering if they were lost or are still around.

 

[Red7227]

I'm sure my thought of logic is completely incorrect... BUT.. I would simply think that for English or 'Merican', its simply a matter of recognition. USA flag I'd imagine is recognized in most corners of the world and the english language is associated with it thusly. If you start hair splitting to origins how far back do you go?

No matter tho, it's not worth dragging out my flat rock to piss on over it. Somebody pass me a beer please... :mrgreen:

The only problem with that is that the US speaks its own simplified version of English that we English speakers avoid because it makes us look like retards.

 

[sweetiebatman]

Thats an Empire not a Country.. and Northern Europe was not controlled by the Romans in the main, The Ottaman Empire to the East and the Gauls, in fact mainland Britain was their main conquest and one that did not last long until they were drove out..

Was there a main language for the tribes in what is now the UK or did they have several? Do people still speak it/them? Just wondering if they were lost or are still around.

No, there was not one real language, it was a mash up of dialects because of the invasions in differing parts of the country by Germanic, Roman and Anglo Saxon troops over the ages. English as we know it was well established by the mid-1400's save a vowel on the end of a word etc thus "English was established then, albiet improved upon/corrupted by centuries of foreign influence and the Celtic languages. English as we know it is clearly recognisable in the works of William Shakespeare

 

[bob]

Thats an Empire not a Country.. and Northern Europe was not controlled by the Romans in the main, The Ottaman Empire to the East and the Gauls, in fact mainland Britain was their main conquest and one that did not last long until they were drove out..

Was there a main language for the tribes in what is now the UK or did they have several? Do people still speak it/them? Just wondering if they were lost or are still around.

"The linguistic heritage of the British Isles is rich,[44] with twelve languages from six groups across four branches of the Indo-European family. The Insular Celtic languages of the Goidelic sub-group (Irish, Manx and Scottish Gaelic) and the Brythonic sub-group (Cornish, Welsh and Breton, spoken in north-western France) are the only remaining Celtic languages—the last of their continental relations becoming extinct before the 7th century.[45] The Norman languages of Guernésiais, Jèrriais and Sarkese spoken in the Channel Islands are similar to French. A cant, called Shelta, is a language spoken by Irish Travellers, often as a means to conceal meaning from those outside the group.[46] However, English, sometimes in the form of Scots, is the dominant language, with few monoglots remaining in the other languages of the region.[47] The Norn language of Orkney and Shetland became extinct around 1880.[48]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

 

[sweetiebatman]

No one ever mentions Manx :lol: My family come from the Isle of Man, (In between England and Eire) and Manx has all but died out, its a local Galliec dilect

 

[Shaun__]

The only problem with that is that the US speaks its own simplified version of English that we English speakers avoid because it makes us look like retards.

Your dialect of English is truly dignified, and no one can deny that.

​

 

[sweetiebatman]

:lol:

What about this

 

[Jupiter551]

It is a matter of national pride, and I was bored. I also had a headache and wanted to yell at someone.

National pride over what? Having the most citizens? Wow, great job tiger

 

[sweetiebatman]

I think we are all proud of our Country,

to take it off on a bit of tangent, I considered myself English, Firmly English until this summer and the Olympics, it has been the best thing to happen to these fine Isles in a long time and the biggest unifying even since VE Day, I now consider myself British

I'm proud of my Country, I'm proud we stood up and alongside the US after 9/11, even if im not proud of the farce after, I'm proud of the diversity that gives us such athletes as Mo farah and Jess Ennis even though The Daily Mail described them as "mongrels" I'm proud of our Iconic Royal Family, especially the Queen, long may she be head of our state and a figurehead

 

[Shaun__]

It is a matter of national pride, and I was bored. I also had a headache and wanted to yell at someone.

National pride over what? Having the most citizens? Wow, great job tiger

Pride at being one of the most influential countries in the modern world. American culture has spread all over the world, mostly due to our crappy movies and war mongering. One day another country will bump us off the top, so I intend to enjoy it while I can.

 

[sweetiebatman]

It is a matter of national pride, and I was bored. I also had a headache and wanted to yell at someone.

National pride over what? Having the most citizens? Wow, great job tiger

Pride at being one of the most influential countries in the modern world. American culture has spread all over the world, mostly due to our crappy movies and war mongering. One day another country will bump us off the top, so I intend to enjoy it while I can.

In my opinion, The USA was on top 70s-2005, It seems a bit of a mess there now looking on from afar (Gun Control, Foreign Policy etc etc) Not just the US, Western culture has taken a back seat!

 

[Shaun__]

In my opinion, The USA was on top 70s-2005, It seems a bit of a mess there now looking on from afar (Gun Control, Foreign Policy etc etc) Not just the US, Western culture has taken a back seat!

I think we are still on top for now. Some of our states have economies that rival most of the worlds countries, and debts that are equally impressive as well. All things come to an end eventually. Short term in my lifetime China or India will become top dog at some point. Long term Africa will find peace and a new country will raise from the ashes of several of its nations.

 

[sweetiebatman]

In my opinion, The USA was on top 70s-2005, It seems a bit of a mess there now looking on from afar (Gun Control, Foreign Policy etc etc) Not just the US, Western culture has taken a back seat!

I think we are still on top for now. Some of our states have economies that rival most of the worlds countries, and debts that are equally impressive as well. All things come to an end eventually. Short term in my lifetime China or India will become top dog at some point. Long term Africa will find peace and a new country will raise from the ashes of several of its nations.

China is the next superpower, and i agree India has a lot going for it. Africa on the other hand is riddled with infighting, The Arab spring has spread and the Northern African countries like Egypt are in turmoil, We all have to get the fuck out of the Middle East as that region is going to hell in a hand basket.

 

[loveyougipsy]

I don't know about Canada, but I do know that for our operating company in Belgium we were originally asked to provide the product in Dutch, French and German. There seemed to be little cross over of language in the 3 areas of Belgium, at least thats what we were told.

If anything, I've now found English is being integrated into other languages. My suspicion is this is mainly due to companies now operating either globally or across Europe. We operate in 7 countries, and while the staff in each country talk using their native language, more and more English is creeping into their conversations.
Meetings with suppliers usually end up in English and all inter-office meetings and emails are in English.

My favourite place to listen to people talk is Gibraltar. Most Gibraltarians know 3 languages, English, Spanish and Llanito. In a single sentence or question while having a conversation they will switch between all 3 languages. :shock: :-D It seems to be completely random when they change from one language to another while talking.

 

[Just Me]

There will have to be some radical changes to happen in China and India before they can out do the west. I personally do not see it happening in my lifetime but it is certainly within the realm of possibility.




If you can track down the full BBC series he did about this, it is well worth watching.

 

[loveyougipsy]

There will have to be some radical changes to happen in China and India before they can out do the west. I personally do not see it happening in my lifetime but it is certainly within the realm of possibility.

India seem to have caught on rapidly to some of the western tricks. One of the Indian Outsourcing companies actually started outsourcing all their contracts to Ireland :lol: :-D

 

[LadyLuna]

The only problem with that is that the US speaks its own simplified version of English that we English speakers avoid because it makes us look like retards.

As an American, I take offense to this! My vocabulary is in no way diminished from the British vocabulary. It's just a little different in some words. Honestly, I think sweater is a much more reasonable term than jumper, I mean... come on. Everyone sweats a little in a sweater, but who the hell jumps in one?

Besides, every word you posted is used in American English.

 

[Nordling]

In my next life, I want Lady Luna to be my older sister.

 

[Jupiter551]

step sister pls

 

[LadyLuna]

I'm speechless, and blushing, and my roommate is looking at me weird.

Thanks guys!

 

[Anonymous]

Guys come in my chat and speak full-blown spanish/french/whatever to me. I personally find it disrespectful to go up to a person either IRL, or in a video chat, and deliberately say things to them in a manner that they cannot understand. Clearly, I am speaking English, as are all the other members in my room, so to come in and speak a different language irritates me. If I had noted on my profile that I am multi-lingual, or was previously speaking another language, then I'd understand.

I agree with you. The fact that they continue to talk to us in another language, when it's obvious we don't know WTF they're saying, is rude. By our confused facial expression and our typed-out responses, it should be obvious to them that we DON'T understand their language. And if they DO know how to speak English fluently, it just makes it even worse that they're deliberately speaking a foreign language to me. I'm really not impressed with a guy coming in my room just to show off his Spanish-speaking skills. If he's intentionally doing it to get under your skin, then I consider that a form of trolling.

 

[SophieMei]

I agree with what the other models it is annoying when guys coming in and speaking another language. People are always coming into my room and typing to me in Chinese or Korean even though my room is obviously English based as you can clearly see from the topic and the interaction between me and the other members. I don't even speak another language let alone be able to read another.

However, I've noticed that there is a lot of backlash from native English speaking members towards non-native speakers who use somewhat broken English. Recently I had a member from Korea who was participating in my room, tipping me and telling me how much he liked me and so on. His English wasn't great, he'd make mistakes like mixing up tenses and subject-verb agreement but I could still make out what he was saying. Some members called him out on this, telling him to "learn to speak proper English" which I thought was incredibly rude. As a person who only speaks one language I have mad respect for anyone who can speak more than just their native language, especially if it is part of another linguistic family. English can be a very difficult language to learn for those who speak a language from a different family because there are whole set of different rules. For example, in Chinese when referring to nouns there is no singular or plural and there are no verb tenses. So if in English I wanted to say, "I picked up the books," a literal translation in Chinese would just be, "I pick up book" and you have to fill in the context. From what I've encountered just on various sites, not specifically MFC, native English speakers seem very entitled that we all use their language yet when non-native English speakers make an effort to communicate with somewhat imperfect English those native speakers take it as an opportunity to label them as ignorant or incompetent when the truth is that person probably speaks an additional language. (Not that speaking several language is equivalent to intelligence but it is a skill that requires a certain amount of dedication.) Does this mean that those who are not proficient enough to a certain level should not even try to communicate? To some degree. I took French in high school but I wouldn't dare try to speak French to a French speaking model because I'm just not good enough. I actually consider trying to communicate in broken fragments in a non-crucial situation somewhat rude because it just wastes time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that though a site like MFC is primarily English based members like those who rudely called out the Korean member need to stop being so egotistical and remember that the internet is an international platform. Though you do need to conform to the site's linguistic norm to gain a level of respect and credibility imperfect yet understandable English shouldn't be a reason to label someone as ignorant because we all come from different backgrounds and they are already taking the extra effort to learn another language to communicate with us.

 

[LilyMarie]

The only problem with that is that the US speaks its own simplified version of English that we English speakers avoid because it makes us look like retards.

As an American, I take offense to this! My vocabulary is in no way diminished from the British vocabulary. It's just a little different in some words. Honestly, I think sweater is a much more reasonable term than jumper, I mean... come on. Everyone sweats a little in a sweater, but who the hell jumps in one?

Besides, every word you posted is used in American English.

I don't want to get drawn into the flag discussion at all -
just jumping in to say that when we (and by we, I mean the English students at my uni) are writing an exam at university, we have to decide whether we want to use American or British English at the very beginning of the exam, and state our choice on the paper. It doesn't matter which one we pick, as long as we stick with it throughout the exam.
US English is not a simplified version of English at all, even though some of its rules do appear to 'make more sense' (color/colour - center/centre etc.)

 

[LadyLuna]

However, I've noticed that there is a lot of backlash from native English speaking members towards non-native speakers who use somewhat broken English. Recently I had a member from Korea who was participating in my room, tipping me and telling me how much he liked me and so on. His English wasn't great, he'd make mistakes like mixing up tenses and subject-verb agreement but I could still make out what he was saying.

This is why before I make fun of someone for their lack of English skills, I make sure English isn't their first one. At least, I try to. The problem is, I tend to just jump right in and correct their English. I've had one guy, I said "I'm sorry, hun, but I really can't understand what you're trying to say". Never did find out if English was his first language or not, cause I spent the whole time just saying that I couldn't understand him. But, well, even if they're using the wrong words or wrong tenses or something like that, those who use it as a second/third/fourth language tend to have good spelling. If I see a lot of spelling mistakes, and not just tenses, I tend to assume it's an American being a troll.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I think all in all everyone's a little bit proud and defensive of where they come from etc, we also all believe we come from the centre of the universe etc etc where ever we come from. America, maybe because it's still a relatively new country, it's also has had a lot of ups and downs, disagreements etc, but also maybe because the place is so massive and kind of far away from everywhere else it seems a lot of Americans haven't been out of america, put that with you guys having so much american tv, I'm guessing you probably don't have as much access to international tv as a lot of other countries do, it's kind of understandable why there's an ever bigger attitude of 'Our country's the best!'. Well, it's probably not, neither is ours, we have no idea what actually goes on, it doesn't really matter anyway, so let's just get over it and stop the argument of whose Gran cooks a better dinner because we will never agree on it.

Trying to say the english language is American is kind of like borrowing someone's homework, changing a few bits of it and trying to pass it off as your own. Well done on the re-writing, who's to say that's made it better or worse, it's made it a bit more your own, but you still didn't actually write it. English is English, you shouldn't try and bully something into being your own just because you've got other people backing you up. It's not right.

Shaun I think that you were even trying to push that point and the points you made were extremely ignorant and pointless. All languages originate from somewhere, your points of where english originated from is from over a thousand years ago and it has developed since then, all languages do, did you think someone just decided one day, "hey! we'll start talking like this from now on!"?
If you were in a bad mood and were deciding to vent, maybe don't let your country down by making everyone else judge you all as patriotic idiots while you're at it. It's people like you who give America it's bad reputation for this sort of stuff when there are so many awesome people (ahem*Luna for one!) who aren't so small minded.

Sorry to rant, I don't mean any offence to American's, just hate it when individuals from any culture say/do things like that and make other people look bad by default. It just encourages hating people from other nationalities. Can we not just have a giggle our language differences? (like my aussie friend talking about how great the breeze feels against her thongs, we all look at her very weirdly before realising she means her flip flops, not that she's wearing a thong/g-string)

 

[Shaun__]

Trying to say the english language is American is kind of like borrowing someone's homework, changing a few bits of it and trying to pass it off as your own. Well done on the re-writing, who's to say that's made it better or worse, it's made it a bit more your own, but you still didn't actually write it. English is English, you shouldn't try and bully something into being your own just because you've got other people backing you up. It's not right.

Shaun I think that you were even trying to push that point and the points you made were extremely ignorant and pointless. All languages originate from somewhere, your points of where english originated from is from over a thousand years ago and it has developed since then, all languages do, did you think someone just decided one day, "hey! we'll start talking like this from now on!"?
If you were in a bad mood and were deciding to vent, maybe don't let your country down by making everyone else judge you all as patriotic idiots while you're at it. It's people like you who give America it's bad reputation for this sort of stuff when there are so many awesome people (ahem*Luna for one!) who aren't so small minded.

England borrowed someone's homework and claimed it as their own. Some of the people living there then left their homes and traveled to other places. They liked their new home and prospered there. Time passed. Then when someone else said WTF are those people doing using their flag on a site probably built by them to represent the language they use? I objected mightily to this, and defended my heritage passed to me by my English ancestors.

Yet people keep coming to me and saying you can not claim that it belongs to the United Kingdom. They give me no reasons founded in logic, they just tell me it is because they did it first. When I point out I too am English they ignore me for some reason.

You can not give me a reason my English blood is different than theirs, because there is no reason. What you are doing is showing your old world arrogance to me. All through out history the old countries strode across the world killing and taking all they wished, since none could oppose them. Now they stand before us and say that culture and history is theirs and theirs alone, and how dare we try to claim the works of our fathers and mothers. How dare we claim our birth right with pride, they tell us to slink away for we are like curs unfit to stand beside them.

I am no cur. I am proud of my English, French, Irish, Scottish, and Native American blood flowing through my veins. So I will say once again my country has just as much right as any other country to use our flag to poorly represent the language choices available on a website.