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DMCA take down service. I'm starting one but I need your help!

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Oct 13, 2016
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Hello everyone!

My name's Kay and I'll be launching a service at the start of next year where I will look for and take down all your stolen and recorded content on the internet.

Recently I asked a model who's room I frequent if I could do some DMCA take down request for her. I had noticed a lot of her content got recorded and posted online, and I wanted to help out. I had always been curious about how these things worked, how much work goes in and who does and doesn't follow the rules. I learned a lot and in the end had over 400 videos and 300 pictures removed from various sites, along with over 150 search results pruned from google and bing.

After a short email exchange she said this service was of great value to her, and considering I enjoyed doing the work and me currently being unemployed, I realized I could start offering this as a paid service to others. So here I am to share my thoughts and ask for your opinions!

My thoughts are as follows:

I will offer a monthly paid plan - I will find your content online, monitor it and send out notices and have any content violating your copyright removed from search engines.
I will also offer long-term discounted plans.

My (company) name will be on all notices and I will send a detailed report at the end of the paid month along with the option to renew. Reports will be monthly if you're using a long-term plan.

So what will it cost?
After looking around the web for similar services and asking the aforementioned model I regular I have come to think that $60 a month would be a fair price, with long term plans going to $55-$50 a month. I realize that this is still quite expensive for some - but constant year-round monitoring isn't required for most.

Will ALL stolen content be removed?
No. I wish this wasn't the case, but there are a few websites around (that I will not name but I'm sure you know) that are registered in places like Panama and the Cayman Island that do not comply with any copyright law. As of right now nothing can be done about them. Google however does a very good job of removing links to these sites from their search engine when sent a notice. I haven't run into a big tube site yet that has ignored any DMCA claims.

First and foremost I will stand for service. In any business I purchase goods and services from, their service is what keeps me coming back and I will strive to do the same.

Questions? Suggestions? Any feedback is very much appreciated!

Sincerely,
Kay
 
Oct 18, 2011
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I don't think too many models would be too willing to pay a monthly fee for a service in which less is accomplished than if the model simply sent an email to MFC (or their cam site, clipstore, what have you) asking for them to send out a DMCA on their behalf.
 

Mila_

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First of all, $60 a month is incredibly low if you will offer a thorough service. Running the searches and getting the content taken down takes a lot of time and if you do a good job you will only be able to take on about 10 models at most. That would be $600 a month to you. Even if you managed to work 10 hours a day and could monitor 20 models you are looking at $1200. Not ideal. Price your service not at the price you think models are willing to pay, but at a price that will be an incentive for you to actually work on things and deliver them. From what I know, the only company that offers this type of service and isn't a complete scam in my opinion is CamModelProtection and their thorough plan was $269 last time I checked. Then again, they do have a way to take Upstore files down.
 
Oct 13, 2016
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First of all, $60 a month is incredibly low if you will offer a thorough service. Running the searches and getting the content taken down takes a lot of time and if you do a good job you will only be able to take on about 10 models at most. That would be $600 a month to you. Even if you managed to work 10 hours a day and could monitor 20 models you are looking at $1200. Not ideal. Price your service not at the price you think models are willing to pay, but at a price that will be an incentive for you to actually work on things and deliver them. From what I know, the only company that offers this type of service and isn't a complete scam in my opinion is CamModelProtection and their thorough plan was $269 last time I checked. Then again, they do have a way to take Upstore files down.
I know the work that goes in, and personally I feel like $269 a month is beyond a rip-off. To me it feels almost predatory with a company capitalizing on the model's very understandable unwillingness to put their legal name on notices. From my experience with the model mentioned in the OP (a very popular CB / MV model). It is less time consuming than most people likely think. I'm expecting to be able to take on at least 30 models without any problems, and still deliver a quality service. I haven't had to deal with Upstore yet but their site says they comply with DMCA law.
 
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Oct 13, 2016
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I don't think too many models would be too willing to pay a monthly fee for a service in which less is accomplished than if the model simply sent an email to MFC (or their cam site, clipstore, what have you) asking for them to send out a DMCA on their behalf.
It's true that (I believe most) cam sites offer this as a service, however models have to search for and supply the infringing links. And honestly, that's a good chunk of the work. I'm offering this as a service so models don't have to think about these things at all anymore, and instead can spend their time doing something else.

What do you mean by "a service in which less is accomplished than if a model simply sent an email to MFC"? since I don't think cam sites go after search results as well. I might be wrong, but for Chaturbate this is the case at least.
 
Oct 18, 2011
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It's true that (I believe most) cam sites offer this as a service, however models have to search for and supply the infringing links. And honestly, that's a good chunk of the work. I'm offering this as a service so models don't have to think about these things at all anymore, and instead can spend their time doing something else.

What do you mean by "a service in which less is accomplished than if a model simply sent an email to MFC"? since I don't think cam sites go after search results as well. I might be wrong, but for Chaturbate this is the case at least.
I'm far from an expert on copyright law so maybe I'm wrong here, but even with the models' backing, you would have no legal claim to owning/assuming responsibility for any clips that might be posted. The cam sites would have legal ownership of anything taken from their streams, so they would (presumably) be more successful in having them taken down than you would. That's what I was alluding to in the part of my post that you bolded.
 
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I'm far from an expert on copyright law so maybe I'm wrong here, but even with the models' backing, you would have no legal claim to owning/assuming responsibility for any clips that might be posted. The cam sites would have legal ownership of anything taken from their streams, so they would (presumably) be more successful in having them taken down than you would. That's what I was alluding to in the part of my post that you bolded.
A model's live performance is their property. It does not belong to the platform they broadcast on. It's like when someone uploads a video to youtube, they still own the rights to their video. It doesn't suddenly belong to youtube / google. The same goes if someone livestreams on twitch.tv for example. The person creating the content owns it. It gets a little more complicated when there's multiple people performing, but in those cases the copyright generally belongs to the person behind the camera. Say model #1 is performing for a studio in a video for a clip site. The copyright in those cases belongs to the person behind the camera. In this case the studio. Rights can be exchanged so the model can upload the video to her own site or charge tokens for it and distribute it through other means, but in general that video is now the studio's property.
I hope these examples make copyright a bit more clear for you.

When taking down infringing content a third party can be chosen to represent you and act on your behalf. The copyright doesn't suddenly shift to me. I merely act on behalf of the copyright holder.
 

Mila_

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I know the work that goes in, and personally I feel like $269 a month is beyond a rip-off. To me it feels almost predatory with a company capitalizing on the model's very understandable unwillingness to put their legal name on notices. From my experience with the model mentioned in the OP (a very popular CB / MV model). It is less time consuming than most people likely think. I'm expecting to be able to take on at least 30 models without any problems, and still deliver a quality service. I haven't had to deal with Upstore yet but their site says they comply with DMCA law.
Upstore does not comply with DMCA notices. Most sites that do not comply will still state that they do on their site.

It doesn't sound like you fully understand the work that goes into this. DMCA work requires constant monitoring of the model's content across several different search engines, tube sites, anonymous boards, and even specialized forums and chatrooms. Perhaps you don't know half of these sites.

You are right when you say taking down content is a piece of cake when it comes to sites that are 100% compliant with DMCA (most tube sites and Google) but half the time you will be dealing with difficult situations: websites that do not comply and yet are hosted on servers in the US that are forced to comply, so you will have to deal with the server instead. And then sometimes you won't even find that information easily as most infringers are hiding their site's information behind cloudflare. So something that should take 1 step is now taking 30 steps. Doing this for 30 models means you will need to do all of this while also keeping it organized so you know which content belongs to which model, what links have been removed and which haven't, etc. It isn't an easy job, and pretending to take 30 models on yourself could result in you being overworked and not being able to do a very thorough job.

As of CamModelProtection being a ripoff... Each company prices their service according to what they think it is worth and the expenses they have. In my opinion $269 for top quality DMCA service is not a ripoff. If the person managing the account is capable of motivating himself, will hunt down my content and take it down, is detail-oriented and has a fast response rate when I email him, I would be happy to pay it.
 

Mila_

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Sorry for the double post but I don't know how to edit and add a new quote. So here we go

I'm far from an expert on copyright law so maybe I'm wrong here, but even with the models' backing, you would have no legal claim to owning/assuming responsibility for any clips that might be posted. The cam sites would have legal ownership of anything taken from their streams, so they would (presumably) be more successful in having them taken down than you would. That's what I was alluding to in the part of my post that you bolded.
He would need to have the models sign a formal agreement, similar to the power of attorney stating that they authorize him to send DMCA's on their behalf. The models do own copyrights to their stream both on MFC and CB.
 
Oct 13, 2016
9
1
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Upstore does not comply with DMCA notices. Most sites that do not comply will still state that they do on their site.

It doesn't sound like you fully understand the work that goes into this. DMCA work requires constant monitoring of the model's content across several different search engines, tube sites, anonymous boards, and even specialized forums and chatrooms. Perhaps you don't know half of these sites.

You are right when you say taking down content is a piece of cake when it comes to sites that are 100% compliant with DMCA (most tube sites and Google) but half the time you will be dealing with difficult situations: websites that do not comply and yet are hosted on servers in the US that are forced to comply, so you will have to deal with the server instead. And then sometimes you won't even find that information easily as most infringers are hiding their site's information behind cloudflare. So something that should take 1 step is now taking 30 steps. Doing this for 30 models means you will need to do all of this while also keeping it organized so you know which content belongs to which model, what links have been removed and which haven't, etc. It isn't an easy job, and pretending to take 30 models on yourself could result in you being overworked and not being able to do a very thorough job.

As of CamModelProtection being a ripoff... Each company prices their service according to what they think it is worth and the expenses they have. In my opinion $269 for top quality DMCA service is not a ripoff. If the person managing the account is capable of motivating himself, will hunt down my content and take it down, is detail-oriented and has a fast response rate when I email him, I would be happy to pay it.

I understand the constant monitoring. And luck has it most of the monitoring can be automated. It's a continuous process with a very large amount of downtime.

Yes, it's great when sites comply, and some of them need some extra nudging from hosts and the like. However plenty of sites do not have to comply. I looked into Upstore (I was familiar with them, just not the take down side of things) and they are hosted in the Bahamas. This means they don't have to comply with DMCA law if they don't feel like it. Their business model purely consists of having people pay for pirated content, yet somehow this one service is able to get them to take down content when no one else can? Why would they reduce their possible revenue when they don't have to by law? I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything, but in my opinion that's very odd.

As for CamModelProtection, I looked into their chamber of commerce records (I'm based in the same country as theirs) and found that they only have a single employee. So make of that what you will. If you use their service and are satisfied, definitely keep using them. I'm just sharing my personal opinions.
 

SaffronBurke

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A model's live performance is their property. It does not belong to the platform they broadcast on.
Wrong. It's in our contracts that the camsite owns our streams and can use them as they wish.
 

AmberCutie

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Wrong. It's in our contracts that the camsite owns our streams and can use them as they wish.
There seems to be some sort grey area here. Because our contracts do say they have the right to what we stream, but then also tell us we have copyright of our image and can DMCA on our own.

I used to warn girls the same, until MFC came along and said the opposite.

So I dunno.
 
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There seems to be some sort grey area here. Because our contracts do say they have the right to what we stream, but then also tell us we have copyright of our image and can DMCA on our own.

I used to warn girls the same, until MFC came along and said the opposite.

So I dunno.
I agree to be filmed/videotaped and or photographed in connection with MFC subsidiaries, successors, licensees, and assignees may copyright, use and reuse, publish, distribute, edit, excerpt, exhibit and otherwise exploit my name (real or fictional), likeness, persona, performance, voice, pictures, chat, video, audio, biological information and identification, and statements, (collectively my “appearance”) for any and all uses, in whole or in part, in any and all media and manners now known or learned, for use throughout the universe, in perpetuity, without limitation, including in connection with the advertising, exploitation and publicizing of MFC and its affiliates MFC shall own, and I grant and assign to MFC all rights, title and interest, of every kind and character in perpetuity throughout the universe in and to MFC the results, content, and proceeds of my appearance(s) (including all such appearances made to date) videos, audio, chat, dialogue, acts, and dances, all of which are works made for hire specially commissioned as part of an audiovisual work, including all copyrights, renewals and extensions of copyright and MFC shall be deemed the author thereof for all purposes. MFC may edit my appearance as they see fit (and I waive any and all moral rights that I have), and I understand that MFC has no obligation to use my appearance(s).
From MFC's model agreement and release. This refers to all work done as 'works made for hire' which implies legal ownership of the content goes to MFC. However on MFC's wiki:

In general, models broadcasting on MyFreeCams.com are the owner of their content and copyright. As part of the Model Agreement, models grant MFC a non-exclusive license to use this content on our website. However, as owners of the content and copyright, only models themselves have a right to submit a DMCA notice.
These statements are very conflicting, but you can see it like this. In the model agreement you're essentially giving them the right to use your content and image for say putting you on the Miss MFC banner and using your images on the site itself. This is mainly MFC covering their own ass for lack of a better term. MFC themselves claim models own their content and copyright - thus you have the rights to the content you create.

This is just MFC as an example but I imagine all other sites have similar clauses.
 

Mila_

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I understand the constant monitoring. And luck has it most of the monitoring can be automated. It's a continuous process with a very large amount of downtime.

Yes, it's great when sites comply, and some of them need some extra nudging from hosts and the like. However plenty of sites do not have to comply. I looked into Upstore (I was familiar with them, just not the take down side of things) and they are hosted in the Bahamas. This means they don't have to comply with DMCA law if they don't feel like it. Their business model purely consists of having people pay for pirated content, yet somehow this one service is able to get them to take down content when no one else can? Why would they reduce their possible revenue when they don't have to by law? I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything, but in my opinion that's very odd.

As for CamModelProtection, I looked into their chamber of commerce records (I'm based in the same country as theirs) and found that they only have a single employee. So make of that what you will. If you use their service and are satisfied, definitely keep using them. I'm just sharing my personal opinions.
I don't use CamModelProtection, I did for a while, but I found their algorithm based service to be lacking, frankly. They said they removed links they didn't remove, then took forever to answer emails, and never delivered on the personal agent service dedicated 2 hour per week to my specific case. But if a site came along that was better at monitoring/removal/communication I would be happy to pay $269 per month for it.

I know how to take down my stuff from every single site except for Upstore which is why I liked their service since CamModelProtection does get some stuff removed from Upstore. I think I read a model here say they go through the Bahamas embassy to get them to comply, but I personally don't know how they managed to do it.

Still, I wish you luck and success with your project.
 
Hello everyone!

My name's Kay and I'll be launching a service at the start of next year where I will look for and take down all your stolen and recorded content on the internet.

Recently I asked a model who's room I frequent if I could do some DMCA take down request for her. I had noticed a lot of her content got recorded and posted online, and I wanted to help out. I had always been curious about how these things worked, how much work goes in and who does and doesn't follow the rules. I learned a lot and in the end had over 400 videos and 300 pictures removed from various sites, along with over 150 search results pruned from google and bing.

After a short email exchange she said this service was of great value to her, and considering I enjoyed doing the work and me currently being unemployed, I realized I could start offering this as a paid service to others. So here I am to share my thoughts and ask for your opinions!

My thoughts are as follows:

I will offer a monthly paid plan - I will find your content online, monitor it and send out notices and have any content violating your copyright removed from search engines.
I will also offer long-term discounted plans.

My (company) name will be on all notices and I will send a detailed report at the end of the paid month along with the option to renew. Reports will be monthly if you're using a long-term plan.

So what will it cost?
After looking around the web for similar services and asking the aforementioned model I regular I have come to think that $60 a month would be a fair price, with long term plans going to $55-$50 a month. I realize that this is still quite expensive for some - but constant year-round monitoring isn't required for most.

Will ALL stolen content be removed?
No. I wish this wasn't the case, but there are a few websites around (that I will not name but I'm sure you know) that are registered in places like Panama and the Cayman Island that do not comply with any copyright law. As of right now nothing can be done about them. Google however does a very good job of removing links to these sites from their search engine when sent a notice. I haven't run into a big tube site yet that has ignored any DMCA claims.

First and foremost I will stand for service. In any business I purchase goods and services from, their service is what keeps me coming back and I will strive to do the same.

Questions? Suggestions? Any feedback is very much appreciated!

Sincerely,
Kay
-Most DMCA services are expensive yes you are correct but a lot of them do as they say.. For $60 a month HOW much will you personally take down? I mean $60 isn't a lot of $$ and as a clip maker primarily my clips are pirated EVERYWHERE. I want results and I'm willing to pay for it if that means I'm getting them but I don't know that I want to throw away $60 on a service that MAY not be able to get the content I need down.

*Also how do you plan on taking payment? I was REALLY looking forward to joining Nikki Skylar's DMCA but they only take paypal and I have 0 interest using it for adult services (even if it's okay in this case).

*How many links are you taking down for $60?

*Do we have to hand in the sites or will you search? I have 2 persona's will you search both of them?


*If I hate your service can I cancel at any time?
 
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-Most DMCA services are expensive yes you are correct but a lot of them do as they say.. For $60 a month HOW much will you personally take down? I mean $60 isn't a lot of $$ and as a clip maker primarily my clips are pirated EVERYWHERE. I want results and I'm willing to pay for it if that means I'm getting them but I don't know that I want to throw away $60 on a service that MAY not be able to get the content I need down.
I will take down everything myself. As I mentioned in the OP, some places might be out of bounds for the DMCA law, but for those the search results can be taken off of search engines. If it proves impossible to remove, I will do everything I can to make it impossible to find.

*Also how do you plan on taking payment? I was REALLY looking forward to joining Nikki Skylar's DMCA but they only take paypal and I have 0 interest using it for adult services (even if it's okay in this case).
I will be using Paypal Standard Checkout, which includes payment options for credit cards.

*How many links are you taking down for $60?
Everything I find. A limit to the amount of links is quite pointless, as notices get sent per domain they are on. That means if whether xvideos (for example) has 10 videos of yours uploaded or 200, it doesn't matter.

*Do we have to hand in the sites or will you search? I have 2 persona's will you search both of them?
I will search for the content. If you use multiple names for different sites then I consider that to fall under a single entity. If however you have an alias you cam under, and another where you create content as a studio involving models other than yourself, then I'd consider that a separate entity and thus an extra charge.


*If I hate your service can I cancel at any time?
Yes. If you hate the service you can cancel at any time, or simple choose not to renew. If you're extremely dissatisfied I can issue a full or partial refund depending on services rendered.
 
I will take down everything myself. As I mentioned in the OP, some places might be out of bounds for the DMCA law, but for those the search results can be taken off of search engines. If it proves impossible to remove, I will do everything I can to make it impossible to find.



I will be using Paypal Standard Checkout, which includes payment options for credit cards.



Everything I find. A limit to the amount of links is quite pointless, as notices get sent per domain they are on. That means if whether xvideos (for example) has 10 videos of yours uploaded or 200, it doesn't matter.



I will search for the content. If you use multiple names for different sites then I consider that to fall under a single entity. If however you have an alias you cam under, and another where you create content as a studio involving models other than yourself, then I'd consider that a separate entity and thus an extra charge.




Yes. If you hate the service you can cancel at any time, or simple choose not to renew. If you're extremely dissatisfied I can issue a full or partial refund depending on services rendered.
I think the paypal will be your biggest issue. It was my issue in finding a DMCA service that took alternative payments. Looks like I may be stuck with Cam model protection lol.
 
Oct 13, 2016
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I think the paypal will be your biggest issue. It was my issue in finding a DMCA service that took alternative payments. Looks like I may be stuck with Cam model protection lol.
It's still early days (intended launch late January 2017) so I will look into other payment options. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Oct 5, 2016
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Well I hope you succeed. More options and competition in any market is good for everyone.
 
Oct 1, 2016
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A word of warning: When you take down videos as a favor to a friend, there's absolutely zero pressure to get everything. When you start charging for it as a service, your margin for error becomes MUCH smaller. "I did my best" stops being good enough. If a major clip-site refuses to take down content, then your job becomes substantially harder. You might need to keep a copyright lawyer on retainer for these situations. This is the point wherein $60 stops being enough.

For a service that is "I'll take down everything that can be taken down with a nice note to the site/the server/the search engines", you can probably get by fine with $60, but you'll have to make absolutely sure you're selling it as such.
 
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I just want to point out the movie industry is spending millions of dollars trying to keep their movies from being pirated. It's still not effective.

The best way to combat piracy is to counter it. Release your videos on a service that gives you profit sharing. If some one really wants to watch an hour of you asking for tips, they can do so, and you get the profit. But I think most models are going to find their profits for this is going to be allot less then 60 dollars a year.
 

JoleneBrody

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I've never had a video removed because I thought it was costing me money, minus the one or two times in a total 6 years span that an actual video got posted. The only reason I ever spend my valuable time sending DMCA is to simply reduce my presence on the internet and reduce the chances of a poor unknowing friend stumbling into my anus.
I can see value in a low cost service that just handles the main heavy hitter tube sites. I give zero poops about the silly upstores. They annoy me, sure.... sad lazy sacks of pathetic making the human race look bad and all... but they cater to a very specific audience and if some hate jerker wants to pay someone for a low res cap of my FREE show instead of getting the High res recording straight from me because they just hate fap my butt hole that much... well they can have fun in their tearful circle jerk.

ETA: basically many models would find value me thinks.
 
Oct 13, 2016
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A word of warning: When you take down videos as a favor to a friend, there's absolutely zero pressure to get everything. When you start charging for it as a service, your margin for error becomes MUCH smaller. "I did my best" stops being good enough. If a major clip-site refuses to take down content, then your job becomes substantially harder. You might need to keep a copyright lawyer on retainer for these situations. This is the point wherein $60 stops being enough.

For a service that is "I'll take down everything that can be taken down with a nice note to the site/the server/the search engines", you can probably get by fine with $60, but you'll have to make absolutely sure you're selling it as such.
I agree, and I will hold myself to a high standard. If I have any intention of being succesful I will have to be open and honest about what I can provide - I will also make my limitations clear once I have a website set up and things along those lines. I am not some law firm that can relentlessly pursue infringing sites hosted in limbo like Upstore. This doesn't mean I won't try to find a way in my spare time - but it'll definitely be listed as something that I can't do. JoleneBrody's post sums up what my service will mainly be useful for nicely.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
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