Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding?

[camstory]

Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding? My opinion, is yes we do. I recently was following a conversation that twice veered from the subject of the conversation. Both times it was because someone seemed most concerned about correcting some one who they thought had said something wrong. While this is natural, and in many cases understandable, I do not believe it is always correct. When our attitude assumes the appearance of wanting to correct everything we feel differently about, we can often alienate those who we are correcting. Those who might otherwise have valid thoughts to contribute to the continued conversation. I also contend that if we do this constantly we will eventually alienate ourselves from the conversation.

I do not suggest that we never speak up, when we find objection to something someone else has said. I am a strong believer that one must have courage in their conviction, and stand up for those things they feel most strongly about. To raise discourse, and risk angering others in defense of what is riotous, is a fine thing. That should always be respected, even if we find our riotous path to be different.

There is something also to be said for the act of being humble, civil, and understanding. Being human beings with intelligence enough to be self aware, we are opinionated. The number one opinion we have, all of us, is that our opinion is the correct one. And we all have opinions on almost everything, and that which we do not we will form one quickly for. If we constantly and vigorously speak out every time we take exception to someones opinion, I feel we risk be seen as arrogant and uppity. That we soon form the opinion in others, that we are a 'know it all'. In our efforts to persuade others that our opinions are the correct ones, I think we need to at times be humble, civil, and understanding. If we throw these things out the window, in our efforts to always loudly voice what we think is right, I think we also risk throwing out all chance of compromise and persuasion.

What are your thoughts? Do you feel it is always the right thing to speak up? Or, are there times when we should let it go in the interest of being humble, civil, and understanding?

 

[Nordling]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Interesting thread.

I think humility, civility and understanding are all virtues too, although obviously there are times to speak out. Part of the decision is the nature of the conversation: it's why politics and religion often get very heated.

What I try to do, and often fail, is look at the possible outcomes. That is, if I correct someone, do I accomplish something positive? If not, why am I correcting?

 

[SoTxBob]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Indeed those qualities are virtues. Many times tho, they aren't learned until later in life after we live and experience the world "outside of the safe zone." As young adults, myself included as I can now look back, most of us are extremely idealistic and tend to present the very "know it all" attitude that gives the impression of arrogance, when in actuality, its simply a desire to establish a foothold in the world and gain self worth. That said, there are those tho that do indeed feel some sort of "superiority" or even a natural authoritativeness over almost everyone. Maybe its the "genius" IQ or just a dominance gene. Maybe they're trying to fill some sort of inner void. Who knows ? :twocents-02cents:

 

[Evvie]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Cam, this is so far my favorite post of yours.

I believe some people get caught up in trivial issues which are very important to them. For example, "grammar nazis" often step in to arguments and shift the discussion from the actual point to arguments of semantics.

In BDSM forums, people love to step in to a conversation (no matter what it is) and say, "I think you meant submissive, not slave." Or, "I don't know what you think 'masochistic meat slut' means but clearly, you've been getting your information from bad sources," and then the conversation degrades in to definitions and trivial grammatical clauses, when everyone already knew exactly what the poster meant and it was completely unnecessary to correct them.

I agree with Nordling on this one. If the only reason you want to speak up is purely for the sake of correction (when correction is not needed), and you have nothing to add, then don't do it.

Yeah, there are some situations when it might be useful to the conversation to interject a little knowledge, but in most cases everyone was fine without you 'helping'.

 

[Neudiin]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

I love a good debate...I cherish them. But far to often, specially online, the argument moves from the subject to the person making the argument.

I have a friend who lets this happen to him all the time. I have pointed it out that even if you get attacked for something let it go and continue arguing your point but sadly he just can't and attacks back.

For me its very simple, if I have an opinion on a subject 99.9% of the time no argument you make is going to change my opinion. I assume that other people are like this as well. So I state my opinion(s) and I just agree to disagree with people whose opinions differ from mine. If they feel the need to argue and attack me then they look like bad and I don't sink to their level.

 

[ScarletRaven]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

This is a very interesting post and something that I have actually been thinking about a lot online and offline. The lesson that I am trying to teach my children which I guess are my own beliefs: if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all...there is no prize or reward for being right in a discussion...stand up for yourself but don't attack others....unless someone says something that impacts or affects you, then you do not need to comment. So if someone uses the wrong term such as submissive/ slave (my mistake often, learning still) then there is really no need to correct them unless you are somehow impacted by the incorrect use of the word. People feel embarrassed when corrected during public discussion online or offline, so then it causes them to go on the defensive and changes the entire discussion. If your sister likes to wear purple every day but you think that it is silly, there is no reason for you to say anything because it does not impact you in any way. If she says that she is the only one in the family allowed to wear purple then that is the time to have a discussion.

I am trying hard to teach my children to be humble, civil and understanding because quite honestly these are virtues that so many people are lacking. We work on it together and hopefully I can become a better person through teaching them.

Live and let live.

xoxo

 

[lordmagellan]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

In trying on a bit of optimism (I'm an amateur), I want to say perhaps it has little or nothing to do with being "superior" or trying to correct another's opinion (except in the BDSM cases Evvie mentioned, those people think they know everything). Maybe some people are just trying to offer an alternative opinion and that's the only way they know how. Some people just don't know any better, like kids, they'll say or write anything. And, let's be honest, much is lost in text; there's almost a magic spell to writing coherently so that everyone can understand your point.

Someone mentioned the "grammar nazis" and how it's largely unnecessary. I'm still on the fence with that particular issue. As a society, we've established a set of rules (albeit arbitrary at times) and standards for written communication so that everyone can communicate and understand each other. Granted language is fluid and many mistakes are easily overlooked and the message received clearly despite them. But still, I, personally, can't help but sometimes dismiss the points of another based on the idiocy of their writing. Sorry, but if English is your first language, you should know how to write it- I do make exceptions for non-native speakers, who I find usually write much better, oddly enough. Clarity is rather important for a point to be both made and received.

I don’t see a great deal of harm in telling someone they’re wrong about something- some people are ill informed or just ignorant. But there are different ways to do so. It is possible to tell someone they are wrong about something without sounding like a dick. Whether they are adult enough to admit it and learn is up to them. If the corrected is embarrassed by the corrector, then goes on to launch a personal attack, they are at fault (and should grow the fuck up).

But right and wrong only apply when dealing with facts or figures. When opinions and ethics are being discussed, I say toss all philosophies into the fire and see which ones get burned up. If one feels the need to go on a personal assault when their view is challenged, apparently they lack the necessary argument to back up their opinion. What so many fail to realize is that when that happens, when they go on the attack rather than fall back and compose themselves to reply in a civil tone, they lose all credibility.

 

[Nicola_G]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Oh! A very thought-provoking post indeed! Glad to see it.

I absolutely do find humility and civility to be virtues. I also see the ability to walk away from a conversation without "educating" somebody as a wonderful personality characteristic. Sometimes, in order to make conversation work, you have to let things go.

When you said that we all have the same opinion, and that it's that our opinion is the "correct" one - it's the truth. It's human. When you accept this and internalize it, conversation becomes easier. I steer clear of conversation partners that want everything to be about facts, figures, and half-cocked studies. It's not fun, nobody wants to take part, and it leaves everyone feeling icky (unless, of course, they like the confrontation and controversy - hey, some people do!).

Not every conversation needs to be controversial. If a conversation does get controversial, and you feel the need to inject your opinion, remember this...the one thing my father etched into our minds - everything goes down better with a spoonful of sugar. Everything. Try to not be pretentious, don't use specialized language. Be kind. If the other person still doesn't agree, don't get angry! The world is a huge place. There is no way that all of us are always going to see eye-to-eye. It's okay to agree to disagree with somebody and move on.

 

[Nordling]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Yeah, beyond simply being understood, I've found that when I read posts by folks who consistently misspell the same words, it slows down my reading. Whenever I see "loose" when they mean "lose," my brain suddenly stops and stares, if only for a moment, but the entire flow of their meaning is interrupted and loses impact.

I don't usually bother to correct folks when this happens, but I sometime have a guilty pleasure when a so-called grammar nazi does it for me. lol Yeah, I know, this is kind of wrong.

 

[LadyLuna]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

If I see someone has their facts completely wrong, I feel obligated to correct them. But only because, if I have my facts wrong, I want someone to correct me. Also because I don't want other people to read what that person wrote and think it's true. Example: someone says that 1+1+1+1+1-1*0=0, I'm going to need to correct that. Because I know that it's really 5, and if people think that it's 0, then things will get messed up.

If someone is usually well-spoken and has correct spelling, but they constantly get one word wrong, I'll actually send them a pm about it. Especially if I have some trick to help them remember it (like there vs they're vs their... if they only ever mix up their and there, then I'll point out that there has here in it, and like here, there is a place.)

If what is disputed is an opinion however, I will leave it be. I will state my opinion, and on what basis my opinion rests. If someone attacks my opinion and debates the facts behind my opinion, I will respond.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

The keys to winning a debate online if you can't provide a strong enough argument is to correct their spelling. If there are no errors in their spelling then attack their grammar. If their spelling and grammar are perfect then protocol asks for yo mama jokes.

 

[Rose]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

The thing I try to remember if/when I speak up about something or to someone, is that I don't want to do it in a manner that would embarrass or humiliate them. I'm a little snot myself and know that getting called out publicly can be pretty embarrassing; so if it needs to be done then it should be done in a polite and well thought out way. Otherwise you just run the risk of being a loudmouthed jackass with no feelings and the person who warranted the calling out just gets embarrassed and/or angry.

Offline, I find things like this are usually best handled by pulling the person in question aside and having a private conversation. Yelling and screaming in a room full of people at the silly 20 year old girl who doesn't know what she's done wrong or why it was wrong, isn't productive and doesn't contribute to anyone learning from their mistakes. :twocents-02cents:

 

[ScarletRaven]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

Yeah, beyond simply being understood, I've found that when I read posts by folks who consistently misspell the same words, it slows down my reading. Whenever I see "loose" when they mean "lose," my brain suddenly stops and stares, if only for a moment, but the entire flow of their meaning is interrupted and loses impact.

I don't usually bother to correct folks when this happens, but I sometime have a guilty pleasure when a so-called grammar nazi does it for me. lol Yeah, I know, this is kind of wrong.

LOL you know what? I am the same way, I get lost and stuck on the error but I try to let it go. I'm always worried that I will do it too and get called out LOL. One example that drives me crazy is when someone says they are "wandering" when they really meant "wondering"

 

[ScarletRaven]

Re: Do we really need to be humble, civil, and understanding

The keys to winning a debate online if you can't provide a strong enough argument is to correct their spelling. If there are no errors in their spelling then attack their grammar. If their spelling and grammar are perfect then protocol asks for yo mama jokes.

LMAO :lol: You are awesome and I really needed that right now