Im just want to know how in the hell did this forum post go from about someone else who was not named to me. lol blarrgghhhh!
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Generally disappointed in the actions of a few models
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In retrospect, maybe it would have been easier for you to either a.) just copy and paste a link to the video into a message to me (perhaps ask for alternative delivery method if MFC mail truly wasn't working) or b.) explain why option a isn't possible.
CharlotteLace
Cam Model
- Jan 29, 2013
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- CharlotteLace
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- Charlotte_Lace
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- Charlotte_Lace
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- http://clips4sale.com/store/65337/Sprinkles26
Starling
Cam Model
laurenredd_36 said:
Here I am inserting my opinion where it's not necessarily wanted again! Wheeeeeeeee!
I'm kind of confused by this whole situation, but particularly this post.
Lauren, I don't want to sound judgmental or skeptical, but in this post you say you "always" send your videos, but then explain that you have new mom brain, depression, and a myriad of other personal issues that affect your camming life. As far as I can tell, no one (including the OP) was accusing you of not working hard or enough, so I'm not sure why all those things are relevant?
It seems to me to come down to a few simple questions- Did he actually tip the 750 tokens for the bra/panties/video? Did you send the bra/panties and video? Why, when he asked you to resend it the first time , did you not just copy+paste a new link to the video and be done with it? To some, 750 tokens might not be a whole lot, but that's $75 out of some guy's pocket either way, and if I was this member, I might get pushy in PM too.
When it comes down to it, we camgirls are providing a service. Members aren't there to make our lives easier and more enjoyable; WE are there for THEM. As with any service industry, we should strive to facilitate happy customers and smooth transactions- you'd very rarely see the owner of a thriving restaurant being rude or ignoring a customer if that customer complained that they received the wrong meal. If models act like they can't be bothered to go the extra mile for a pretty standard request, they're gonna have a bad time. The same can be said for telling this member to go find better things to do with himself or to stop whining about it- if someone gave us a $75 gift card in exchange for our videos but then canceled the gift card, we'd be HELLA pissed. So I wouldn't be so quick to tell him he's getting his panties in a bunch over nothing.
(Though I don't necessarily approve of posting it on a forum where she's not active or providing personal details.)
:twocents-02cents:
I like e-bay.
I mostly like to buy there but I also have a sellers account.
I've been a buyer there since 1999 and have 430 positive feedbacks.
Throughout all that time much of my purchases have been good, but invariably there are the few that once they have been paid things seem to get a little hazy.
Like hearing nothing from the seller for 2 weeks while you are waiting on your $1000 antique camera to be delivered.
Then when you open a case with ebay suddenly the seller reappears and is very vocal and there's always some "family emergency" type of explanation. Which my gut feeling tells me is total BS but in those cases, now that they are motivated by having their paypal acct frozen until I receive my item in good order when I do finally receive it I opt to not leave them any feedback at all. Though I would be totally within my rights that little nagging voice of conscience says "what if they really did have a family emergency"
Once the contract is agreed upon, either on a cam site or ebay and the seller has been paid it is part of the sellers due diligence to complete it. The fact that a seller says "i'm not active on the forum" is of no consequence. He doesn't need anyone permission to have a beef or does he need to find what forum you are active on to bring his beef there.
Whatever reasons there may be that the contract was not completed (ie: new mother, depression etc) try using those excuses in a real job or a real court of law, they don't matter.
You know how there are a lot of people here who think chaturbate sucks due to their poor model service? well that same way models feel slighted by no co-operation there is the same way any person feels when they've paid for their item (vids, whatever etc) and get nothing, or get ignored. He has every right to be angry and if he gets rude or surly that's no excuse to not complete the contract. Either complete it or refund the money. I don't think you'd want the same treatment done to you. And just as chaturbate's rep gets muddied, the mindset that camgirls are only out to rip people off becomes more pervasive.
This thread looks like in the beginning every one was on his side and 2 weeks later somehow it's been spun around and he's satan incarnate
I mostly like to buy there but I also have a sellers account.
I've been a buyer there since 1999 and have 430 positive feedbacks.
Throughout all that time much of my purchases have been good, but invariably there are the few that once they have been paid things seem to get a little hazy.
Like hearing nothing from the seller for 2 weeks while you are waiting on your $1000 antique camera to be delivered.
Then when you open a case with ebay suddenly the seller reappears and is very vocal and there's always some "family emergency" type of explanation. Which my gut feeling tells me is total BS but in those cases, now that they are motivated by having their paypal acct frozen until I receive my item in good order when I do finally receive it I opt to not leave them any feedback at all. Though I would be totally within my rights that little nagging voice of conscience says "what if they really did have a family emergency"
Once the contract is agreed upon, either on a cam site or ebay and the seller has been paid it is part of the sellers due diligence to complete it. The fact that a seller says "i'm not active on the forum" is of no consequence. He doesn't need anyone permission to have a beef or does he need to find what forum you are active on to bring his beef there.
Whatever reasons there may be that the contract was not completed (ie: new mother, depression etc) try using those excuses in a real job or a real court of law, they don't matter.
You know how there are a lot of people here who think chaturbate sucks due to their poor model service? well that same way models feel slighted by no co-operation there is the same way any person feels when they've paid for their item (vids, whatever etc) and get nothing, or get ignored. He has every right to be angry and if he gets rude or surly that's no excuse to not complete the contract. Either complete it or refund the money. I don't think you'd want the same treatment done to you. And just as chaturbate's rep gets muddied, the mindset that camgirls are only out to rip people off becomes more pervasive.
This thread looks like in the beginning every one was on his side and 2 weeks later somehow it's been spun around and he's satan incarnate
laurenredd_36 said:
If this is genuine (unverified, obviously), then this post in my eyes makes you out to be extremely unprofessional. Without taking sides, it looks like the guy has tried to explain he didn't receive what he felt he was entitled to, then lost his temper after being continually brushed off.
If your offline life is that bad, then you need to prioritise sorting that out. You handled the situation badly in my opinion, so maybe take away a lesson from the situation. Develop a better tracking method if you're sending stuff too (Does the US have recorded delivery like the UK? Here, something like that would be less than $2 postage!).
There are many better ways you could have dealt with this. I'm sure other models would be happy to share their advice on that with you, given the chance. In all honesty though, you probably shouldn't be doing this if things offline are as crazy as you say. You're only going to end up trashing any reputation you have built up.
Misono said:
We have tracking as well. Any item sent via priority mail in the us automatically has a tracking number. Anything sent outside the us requires a customs form and the item is tracked by the number specific to that customs form
mmmCleavage said:
Have you contacted MFC? Seriously this should be your first point of complaint after you've been banned or ignored by the model. Over the last year or so MFC customers service has improved significantly. Now this maybe cause I've accumulated more rewards points, but I think they have also hired some more support staff. They have access to all of the chat records, mfc mails etc. Part of the reason we pay MFC ~$.03/token is to act as referee for disputes. We as forum member simply don't know who to believe. I have contacted MFC and gotten videos sent that had been ignored by the model and even one time got a refund of tokens for something that was never delivered. If you have not contacted MFC, before posting this, then this is a dick move. If you have contacted MFC then what did they say?
Think most of us would agree on this. And this should have been an easy contract, most model/ member trades are far less direct.The Insider said:
From my experiences of unfair trade on cam sites, here are your options if you are disappointed:
1. Ask the site for a refund of tokens.
2. Ask the model to come up with some concession.
3. Act out in some way, do something about it.
4. Let it go, move on, treat it as a learning experience.
If this is MFC, then option 1 wont work. As a premium with over 100 000 RP, I have never even had a reply message to any complaints. They are uninterested.
As a point of comparison, my first site would refund money spent on bad pvt experiences/ tech problems, should we complain.
Some sites serve models, some members. As a member you will know which, the first time you run into problems.
Option 2 is your best chance, but many models would rather lose the member, than bother with all that effort. The best you can hope for is an apology usually. You may decide that this is enough too, especially if this was a genuine mistake.
(The example of a possible time lag in pvt is a good example of where negotiation is best, the member may feel the model is stalling/ wasting their time and money.)
Option 3 and option 4, are where it gets tricky. If you chose to do something about it or not to do something about it, both have consequences (good and bad). Many will advise you to let it go, learn from it, but most people need to do a little of both when they feel betrayed/ lied to. Talking about it (i.e. a post here) is always ok.
Whatever you do or don't do changes you, keep that in mind. I have always liked people unafraid to take appropriate action when they feel they need to. Long term inaction over many disappointments can lead to depression, anger, and resentment.
Keep in mind that others actions and inactions have consequences for them too. The wicked may not be directly punished, go on thinking they are getting away with it, this can lead them ever spiralling to worse acts, no one wants to be that person.
Disappointmented members may realistically become untrusting of all models and they change/ stop spending accordingly. When long term/ reliable members complain, models and especially websites should take them seriously. For example, a member might spend in less playful more manipulative ways with the next model to regain some control. This can have consequences for the whole site.
Luckily most models are lovely, honest, open hearted people, and ever so addictive as company. I suspect this slows the changes to disappointed members, as they soon forget their troubles with the discovery of a much better model.
As I think of some now am missing chat a little. :love7:
Wow. I can't take sides because both of them are in the wrong.
Always up to a customer to do their due diligence before spending anything. Especially if you're paying in advance for services not yet rendered. Should read product reviews before you buy an item, and should observe a webcam performer's room a while before tipping them. You can ask other customers about them too. See if someone else bought a video from a model, if they received it, and what it was like; before you purchase it too. Or if a model has a countdown goal, see if they meet their goals and do what they were supposed to, before you tip towards one. Those performers who give the industry a bad rap by being scam artists, or just unreliable, usually show it repeatedly.
I only usually tip after I appreciate something that has already been provided, like amusing conversation. And don't really care if I get a planned show, video, or something else later. I stay much more satisfied with cam sites that way.
I only usually tip after I appreciate something that has already been provided, like amusing conversation. And don't really care if I get a planned show, video, or something else later. I stay much more satisfied with cam sites that way.
Since this is decidedly NOT the avenue to seek restitution in this scenario (I'll admit, I never thought it was "proper"). What is the proper avenue given that the model has taken a stance of ignoring/banning me and MFC refuses to look into disputes over tips? I ask not to validate my actions in posting on this forum but simply out of genuine curiosity and future reference.
- Mar 6, 2014
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LittleMynxy said:
Perhaps you didn't read my post in its entirety. I highlighted the pertinent information in my post. Also, I followed the link you graciously provided me to find some key notes made by MFC support that help solidify my point:
"I want my tip back.
Our policy is that we do not review or refund tips."
-AND-
"I have been banned by a model.
If you have been banned by a model, there is nothing we can do to help. Models can ban anyone they want for any reason."
JickyJuly
Cam Model
- Apr 13, 2011
- 5,442
- 35,009
- 293
- Twitter Username
- @JickyJuly
- MFC Username
- JickyJuly
- Streamate Username
- Jicky
- ManyVids URL
- https://www.manyvids.com/Profile/461355/JickyJ/
- Clips4Sale URL
- http://www.clips4sale.com/store/99705/jicky
I'm pretty sure she read your post, dude. There's just zero to do here. Did you expect her link to take you to the super secret wiki just for special members like you?mmmCleavage said:
If there is zero to do then I expect her to say "There's nothing you can do" if she is so inclined to do anything at all. However, directing me to go to support when I make note that support claims they don't get involved in such cases makes it seem like she didn't read my post.
On a sidenote, JickyJuly, I read your profile and noticed you state "NO public cum shows". So my question to you is: How many tokens would it take for you to do a public cum show?
(See what I did there?)
On a sidenote, JickyJuly, I read your profile and noticed you state "NO public cum shows". So my question to you is: How many tokens would it take for you to do a public cum show?
(See what I did there?)
Miss_Lollipop
Cam Model
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,391
- 6
- 40,735
- 293
- Twitter Username
- @MissLollipopMFC
- MFC Username
- Miss_Lollipop
- Clips4Sale URL
- http://clips4sale.com/store/46293/misslollipop
MFC will actually look into tip disputes *IF* you can prove that the model has mislead you.
Meaning - if she said she'd send something via MFC mail to you with text in pm or mfc mail (so mfc can see it in writing)
And she didn't sent it to mfc mail (which they can also see)
And you can prove you weren't harassing her (they look at the pm logs and don't see you making threats, harassment etc)
MFC *may* refund you part or all of your tokens.
I've seen them do it in the recent past...
months ago they issued models a rule change that told us specifically we were *not* allowed to mislead members by promising things for tips then not delivering.
This thread is really confusing and goes round in circles.. I feel like both parties have done shitty stuff based on what was posted.
So if you haven't contacted support you should have.
If this model makes a habit of this behavior she will gather more than a few members reporting this and they usually do take action against models in these cases I believe.
If she doesn't make a habit of it, and if you were really being as horrible as she's saying you were, then she should be fine and MFC will ignore/tell you to screw yourself.
Meaning - if she said she'd send something via MFC mail to you with text in pm or mfc mail (so mfc can see it in writing)
And she didn't sent it to mfc mail (which they can also see)
And you can prove you weren't harassing her (they look at the pm logs and don't see you making threats, harassment etc)
MFC *may* refund you part or all of your tokens.
I've seen them do it in the recent past...
months ago they issued models a rule change that told us specifically we were *not* allowed to mislead members by promising things for tips then not delivering.
This thread is really confusing and goes round in circles.. I feel like both parties have done shitty stuff based on what was posted.
So if you haven't contacted support you should have.
If this model makes a habit of this behavior she will gather more than a few members reporting this and they usually do take action against models in these cases I believe.
If she doesn't make a habit of it, and if you were really being as horrible as she's saying you were, then she should be fine and MFC will ignore/tell you to screw yourself.
- Mar 6, 2014
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JickyJuly said:
:text-yeahthat: Thanks Jicky! Yes, I did read your post - hence why I quoted it and responded. You asked what avenue would be appropriate to seek restitution and I gave you the appropriate link. You should always stick with contacting MFC Support when you have issues with MFC. :twocents-02cents:
I feel that the only thing I have possibly done wrong here is posting the information in this forum. I don't think I got out of line with anything I said in the wake of her starting to ignore me. Yes, I was frustrated and might have been slightly less than courteous in my delivery, but I feel I stuck to the facts. I know it's my word against her's here, but the chat logs back me up as far as support is concerned. The "harassment" she claims was literally me saying "Hi" in PM each time I saw her come online hoping to strike up a rational conversation to resolve this. I literally said "HI" once each time and left it at that to see if she would saying anything back. I feel I was very nice and patient in my attempts to contact her up until the point she blatantly told me she did what she needed to do and refused to do anything else. As far as this community is concerned did I do anything wrong up until my presence in this forum?
JickyJuly
Cam Model
- Apr 13, 2011
- 5,442
- 35,009
- 293
- Twitter Username
- @JickyJuly
- MFC Username
- JickyJuly
- Streamate Username
- Jicky
- ManyVids URL
- https://www.manyvids.com/Profile/461355/JickyJ/
- Clips4Sale URL
- http://www.clips4sale.com/store/99705/jicky
I don't see what you did there, but I'm willing to accept your tokens. Just keep sending them, and I'll let you know when I have enough to do something I've stated I'm not into. Honestly, it seems like you do comprehend that MFC is probably not going to assist you with this one. A few people here were nice enough to point out that you could at least ask them with the worst outcome of just being ignored. What else can anyone say on the matter? Maybe you were a douche. Maybe she was a douche. Maybe you're the interchangeable captain and skipper in a boat full of douche. Maybe it was just a miscommunication. There's not much left to do is there? That's life.mmmCleavage said:
I like that line about being "Interchangeable captain and skipper in a boat full of douche" :lol: Basically, you are right I am under the impression MFC will ignore any attempt to resolve via support. In total, I would estimate that I have had models welch on several thousand dollars worth of agreements in the past and each time I attempted to resolve with the model but quickly moved on each time upon realizing it wasn't going anywhere. I guess this was just the straw that broke the camels back and didn't feel like just letting it go so easily again this time. I think it especially struck a nerve when I was told to go fuck myself. However, it would appear that will just have to happen again. Since I get the impression that this community sees me as equally bad if not more to blame in this case, I will stop trying to prove any kind of point. I was just exploring options in an attempt to not roll over yet again. I do appreciate all input in this thread, even if it wasn't in support of me. I learned a lot about my options and things "not to do". Thanks!
Miss_Lollipop
Cam Model
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,391
- 6
- 40,735
- 293
- Twitter Username
- @MissLollipopMFC
- MFC Username
- Miss_Lollipop
- Clips4Sale URL
- http://clips4sale.com/store/46293/misslollipop
mmmCleavage said:
I think you just dropped a random graphic in to a thread that existed to talk about something else, as your very first post. The graphic held the name of a model that's not active here, and had parts cut out of it. You did not explain anything. You just dropped it there.
No one on this forum knows you, or her. You have no credibility here, and neither does she.
Feeling ripped off sucks. I've been there...
From her reply, it sounds like she's being unreasonable in my opinion. But my opinion doesn't really fix anything.
I am not against naming and shaming models that do bad shit, but resolution should have begun with mfc support. And if you did post you could have done so in a much less random, vindictive manner..
I think it also makes people on this forum feel uncomfortable because we can't do much for you. Or her. It's an icky dispute. There's *mostly* models on this forum I think (not 100% sure what % of members are members or models)
It would really suck for this forum to become a place where people come to make complaints about models non-stop...
Recently two of my regs have told me they have been ripped off by models an asked me to blast them on twitter. I responded by advising them to take evidence to MFC support.
Both of them told me they received full refunds.
According to them: Both were regarding custom videos being promised, within a time frame, with pms to back it up. Both were told that they would not get their video by the model. Both were banned when they tried to pursue it. both did not yell at or harass her - they simply tried to resolve the issue.
So i really think you should try to go to support again.
I'm not saying I think it was the right thing to do at all. However, my initial motivation to post the first graphic I did was simply for her to see it. I knew that even if she wasn't active, there are enough models that would see it and I figured at least one of them would bring it to her attention... and that is exactly what happened (again, not saying its right -- it is what it is). Basically, she left out conversation by claiming that I only tipped a total of 22 tokens and the point of the graphic was to simply show her words about the price and my tip in excess of that price. That way she didn't have an excuse to believe her own lie about my tip total. It kind of snowballed from there. I don't need you guys to explain why that was a bad thing to do, I don't think it was good by any stretch, but at the time I was at the peak of my frustration with the situation and that's what I did...
Miss_Lollipop
Cam Model
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,391
- 6
- 40,735
- 293
- Twitter Username
- @MissLollipopMFC
- MFC Username
- Miss_Lollipop
- Clips4Sale URL
- http://clips4sale.com/store/46293/misslollipop
mmmCleavage said:
I understand you were frustrated and that you get that it wasn't the best set of actions. You asked about the forum having such a negative response to you, and I was trying to explain some of the reasons that might have happened. That's all.
mmmCleavage said:
I am confused are you trying to get your video and panties or get a refund. Or are just looking for sympathy, or revenge. Cause if it is the former than you are in the wrong place, and if its the latter
Why you persist in your believe that MFC will ignore you? I have asked you what did MFC say and your lack of reply seems to suggest that you haven't contacted them.
I have given you examples of getting refunds,videos and Miss Lollipop has also provided example of her regulars getting refunds. Yes at times it taken 4 emails to MFC to get satisfaction but sometimes just one email, certainly less effort than you spent on this thread where you have essentially zero chance of getting what you want.
I realized that MFC says tips are gifts and they won't get involved yada yada. But I'll let you in on secret, just because MFC says something doesn't mean it's true.
MFC is a US corporation and governed by the Uniform Code of Commercial conduct and the laws of Illinois. While it is certainly true that many tips are gifts and it would be impossible to enforce some transactions (e.g spanks), this is not one of those cases. If the facts are as you presented them. You purchased goods a video and panties and didn't receive them. If that is the case, then the model broke the law. MFC is acting as a middleman and no different than Ebay or Visa, and I'm sure buried in the tens of thousands of pages of the UCC are laws regarding the obligation of middleman. Both Visa and eBay routinely arbitrate disputes between sellers and buyers, with typical a bias for the buyer. I suspect they do so not entirely out of their kindness of their corporate heart but rather to avoid the wrath of law enforcement.
Now I am sure MFC legal department would "vigorously dispute" what I said. If by some small chance you don't get satisfaction with MFC your next step is to file a complaint with office of consumer protection (or similar name) in your home state, and also with the Illinois. All of these take less time than you spent so far.
ComicOzzie said:
Well that is her side, he says it was 750 tokens worth raising a bit of stink...
ComicOzzie said:
This was a lie on her end and it is a lie I have addressed. It was more than 22 tokens, and I have no idea where that number came from. It wasn't about money at all. It was about the principal that models have continually welshed on agreements I have made with them and nothing ever happens. I chose this one to not just roll over and move on. I didn't really expect anything to come from it, basically just wanted to make note of it for future consumers and hope the model would read it and treat future customers better.
Why do you keep ignoring everyone's reasonable advice and focusing on nitpicking the details of what people say? Put on your big boy pants, contact MFC, and stop being so passive-aggressive.
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