Poll: Voting process of casting ballots

[Deleted member 37064]

First off, let me preface this by saying that I am posting this with the intent of not getting into a Dem/Repub or POTUS hate bitch session. Nor, should this be finger pointing. This is meant as a process discussion, and some discussions related to the "Hot button" items involved with it.

Given the hot topic of elections, hacking, etc. I'm surprised that there's still a push to move the elections to electronic format and "voting online" without much thought to ensuring it can't be hacked or manipulated. There's a lot of information out there regarding how easy it is to hack election machines, such as this article discusses. There's many others if you take some time to read up on it and how it can be done.

What are your thoughts on the voting process of casting ballots online? Security, privacy concerns and availability to eligible voters are the big ones since they are sticking points for many areas regarding voting in general.

 

[SaffronBurke]

On the one hand, being able to vote online would be great for a lot of people, especially for people with disabilities, people who work unusual hours or multiple jobs, parents, and yes, lazy people who just don't wanna put on pants.

However, we need to be able to verify that people who are voting, are who they say they are, and we also need a secure system that doesn't allow hackers to get in and change votes, or cast fraudulent votes.

 

[zippypinhead]

We can't even avoid having our shit compromised by hackers using "offline" voting systems. I think physical ballots through the mail are honestly the best option we've got right now.

 

[dilligaf0]

There has been "hacking" (or election rigging) for as long as there have been elections no matter the method used.
Mechanical voting machines were "lost", set up to inaccurately tally votes entered and such.
Paper ballots were "lost". Boxes of them not counted or just plain fraud by dishonest vote counters that were compromised / paid-off.
It's a flawed concept that invites fraud and is impossible to totally secure.
I don't know that there really is a good solution.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

A lot of good points brought up, and this is the kind of neutral discussion I was hoping it would lead to.

 

[Emberblaze]

I think it's a great idea in theory but maybe not in practice. Especially as I see a lot of complaints online about how there's a lot of low income areas without nearby voting stations (is this true? I'm Canadian and I can't always trust what the news says about the US anymore.) as well as how has already been mentioned about access for elderly and disabled people.

But the amount of time that would be required to do this and do it right would be insane. Hackers are capable of a lot more than we usually realize and even if the process itself is secure you can't always be sure that the device the person is voting from is secure etc. The amount of work needed to be put in to make the process secure could take years of testing, only to have technology start to advance again and leave the entire process outdated.

I think maybe the money they intend to use to develop this would be better spent developing the software/hardware for physical voting stations so that they can't be tampered with first and into making voting more accessible for everyone in other ways.

I know here you can call any of the bigger political parties and tell them you want to vote but are disabled and can't get out and they will arrange a way for you to get there. My Mother has mobility issues that are minor during the summer months but can be extremely challenging for her during winter months and I'm pretty sure she's made use of those resources when no one else was available to take her. Is that something that's available in all areas? Or is this a purely "Canadians are nice eh?" thing.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

@Emberblaze exactly regarding security concerns. There's security flaws being found all the time, and not just in OS or applications. But, at the hardware level as well as seen in the past year with processors. This is my biggest concern is the security aspect of it, and how easily it can be manipulated. @SaffronBurke mentioned also, how do you ensure the votes are submitted by the eligible voter they are saying they are? Far too easy to manipulate things.

As to the minority, and handicapped voting concerns you mention, I do not believe they are as widespread as some claim them to be. In the US, there are Federal and state laws which mandate handicap accessibility for voting facilities, and if you are unable to enter the building two voting officials(from different parties) will come to your vehicle so you can cast your ballot. There is also the ability to pre vote, or absentee by mail. I'm unsure of the requirements for where a voting facility needs to be in regards to population and proximity. But, there are many voting facilities in urban precincts and federal law mandates that one can have time off to vote. Most voting facilities are open 7:00am to 8:00pm for state and federal. So long as you're in line by 8:00pm, yet don't get to cast your ballot until 10:00pm due to long lines it still counts. Towns of less than 500 people don't have to open until 10:00am so that's still ten hours to vote. It is also mandatory that there be at least one voting official from each of the major parties present at each of the voting facilities.

One question I do have for you, being Canadian, is that I recently learned you have to show your ID to vote. Here, that is a very hot topic. One party wants it as a requirement to show a Gov't issued ID to get your ballot (but not to cast it, since it's supposed to be anonymous), the other wants to abolish it claiming poor and elderly may not have access to get an ID. This is up to each state as to if they want to require it, the state I live in, it is not to vote. But, you have to show proof of residency when you register which may only occur once if you live in the same residence your entire life and precincts are not redrawn.

 

[SaffronBurke]

One question I do have for you, being Canadian, is that I recently learned you have to show your ID to vote. Here, that is a very hot topic. One party wants it as a requirement to show a Gov't issued ID to get your ballot (but not to cast it, since it's supposed to be anonymous), the other wants to abolish it claiming poor and elderly may not have access to get an ID. This is up to each state as to if they want to require it, the state I live in, it is not to vote. But, you have to show proof of residency when you register which may only occur once if you live in the same residence your entire life and precincts are not redrawn.

I didn't have an ID the first time I voted at 19, because I didn't drive nor smoke so I figured why do I need one? I finally got one when I was 20 because a friend wanted to take me to a sex shop and you need to show one to get in. Until then, whenever I was buying something with my debit card and they asked for ID, I'd pull out my high school ID from two years ago and hope that was enough.

 

[Emberblaze]

@Emberblaze exactly regarding security concerns. There's security flaws being found all the time, and not just in OS or applications. But, at the hardware level as well as seen in the past year with processors. This is my biggest concern is the security aspect of it, and how easily it can be manipulated. @SaffronBurke mentioned also, how do you ensure the votes are submitted by the eligible voter they are saying they are? Far too easy to manipulate things.

As to the minority, and handicapped voting concerns you mention, I do not believe they are as widespread as some claim them to be. In the US, there are Federal and state laws which mandate handicap accessibility for voting facilities, and if you are unable to enter the building two voting officials(from different parties) will come to your vehicle so you can cast your ballot. There is also the ability to pre vote, or absentee by mail. I'm unsure of the requirements for where a voting facility needs to be in regards to population and proximity. But, there are many voting facilities in urban precincts and federal law mandates that one can have time off to vote. Most voting facilities are open 7:00am to 8:00pm for state and federal. So long as you're in line by 8:00pm, yet don't get to cast your ballot until 10:00pm due to long lines it still counts. Towns of less than 500 people don't have to open until 10:00am so that's still ten hours to vote. It is also mandatory that there be at least one voting official from each of the major parties present at each of the voting facilities.

One question I do have for you, being Canadian, is that I recently learned you have to show your ID to vote. Here, that is a very hot topic. One party wants it as a requirement to show a Gov't issued ID to get your ballot (but not to cast it, since it's supposed to be anonymous), the other wants to abolish it claiming poor and elderly may not have access to get an ID. This is up to each state as to if they want to require it, the state I live in, it is not to vote. But, you have to show proof of residency when you register which may only occur once if you live in the same residence your entire life and precincts are not redrawn.

This is a pretty good resource to see whats needed.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

 

[dilligaf0]

The only way I can think of to avoid fraud is to abandon the "voting by secret ballot" concept. You then have verification of who a person voted for, but then there's the voter intimidation aspect. "Vote for who we want you to or we'll harm you or your family." There doesn't seem to be a good solution.