suggestions for starting a solo, independent site?

[SaraBliss]

Who has created their own independent site and maintained enough traffic? Where do you advertise? Give me details: average hourly wage, what you charge, if you use paypal and skype or not, etc. I am looking to venture off of cams.com and keep a higher percentage of what clients pay me. I know this is possible because it's been done with some of the big names...and yet I still see them on MFC? Does that mean you can advertise other sites while working on MFC?

Right now I charge $5.49 a minute, and $4.94 for fans, which is an outrageous amount. I would gladly charge $3.00 if I was keeping all of it.

On cams.com, I make roughly $65-80 an hour. But I only end up making about 29.05 percent of every dollar that a guest spends on me. Please share any experiences, thanks.

For those who are interested, here is my link if you want to check me out and blow some money and your wad:
https://models.streamray.com/p/page.cgi ... bSaraBliss

If you want to model, my link for referring someone:
http://models.streamray.com/friend/SaraBliss

 

[SaraBliss]

Okay, since no one is answering, how about you email me with a ballpark figure of how much income you generate monthly from your independent sight. (MissSaraBliss@gmail.com)

If the site produces an above average amount of revenue, I will sign up for your site and do an informational interview with you. You will be completely paid for your time. All you have to do is answer questions about marketing and such. We could even do the interview over the phone, if you'd like.

Thanks,
Sara Bliss

 

[GreatDane]

could be that they haven't set up to that point yet, it has crossed my mind a few times tho.

 

[AlexLady]

Eh, I don't have much advice for a solo or independent site, but don't even think of using paypal for adult transactions. It's against their rules, and if they catch you, they'll close your account and keep the money.

 

[SaraBliss]

Ya I read something about that somewhere, I didn't realize they take all your money though. Ha that sucks. I sold panties on there once but they never caught me! Guess I will watch for that now thanks. I have seen camwithcarmen.com and gisele's site, and they are both really good but so many bells and whistles. I am looking for something more basic.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

Maybe try reading the other posts on this forum. You really aren't going to get any special secrets from anyone that isn't already posted somewhere else.

 

[MyCamgirl]

I have seen camwithcarmen.com and gisele's site, and they are both really good but so many bells and whistles. I am looking for something more basic.

You just got the example of two girls that have a very intelligent and professional person managing their sites/image and who knows well how the things work.

I didn't understand exactly what you want to offer on your site (webcam? sell videos/pictures? membership?) But even with a simple site, gaining and holding a good traffic can take a lot of time from you. Not only doing the tech part, but also producing content and updating the site.

If you want, I can give your contact to a camgirl who created her own website, then she decides whether she wants to contact you or not. She told me she knew nothing about websites and now she got everything on rails with ccBill, affiliate program and all. It is a fetish website barely known. I don't know how much she makes, but it must be a fair income because she is not camming anymore.

By the way... it is easier if you have already a good fan base before launching the site.

 

[SaraBliss]

Hey thanks this really helps. Any information is good information. Your friend's site actually sounds like what I am looking for, for now. Shoot me an email if you could (MissSaraBliss@gmail.com) or I'll follow up with you on here. I would like to offer live webcam shows, add a wishlist link, and a naughtybids.com link to purchase items that I am selling, and a link to my blog. That's basically the idea right now, and then add more as I go along.

In the long, long far away future, I would like to maintain a not-for-profit broadcasting site for webcam models. The only percentage taken out of everyone's paycheck will be used to run the site. The model will set up a profile and/or their own site, but everything is connected to funnel traffic to one domain. Kind of like how CDbaby was created, where independent musicians could go online to sell their music without having a distributor.

The overhead we pay to model on a high traffic site is ridiculous. I actually like this job, but the industry setup as of now SUCKS. The fees and miniscule cut we get for our hard work causes this looming sense of powerlessness for me. Doesn't it for any other models out there? We are getting taken advantage of, and it doesn't have to be this way. We need to organize around the problem and ban together. We could generate our own traffic on a new site by simple word-of-mouth between models. Where the models go, our clients will follow. Ambercutie forums are a really great start. We can have more, though, than just a communication platform for the female community in this industry. We can also have the pay we deserve. So many models set up independent sites to battle the issue, but we won't really eradicate the problem until we start working together. One girl, one site at a time, has less effect than large group of us at one, independent, 'take back the power', site. We are the product people are buying, after all! Most models don't realize how entitled we are to full percentage pay. Furthermore, our clients want to see their money going to the models (and only the models) just as much as we want it. I can't think of any reason why that idea wouldn't work.

 

[Sevrin]

Sing it sister! Solidarity forever! We shall overcome! Turn over the means of production to the proletariat! Death to capitalism!

I get the impression that you have never had to organize anything involving money and people. Anyway, there's a discussion over on Stripperweb that might also be of interest. Actually, there are a few good, pertinent discussions there.

 

[SaraBliss]

Nope, definitely not an expert on putting it all into practice, but I do have a background in communications/public relations, and social justice. I know a venture capitalist that deals with technology businesses, so these things are a good start. Everybody starts somewhere, you know? But yes I'm obviously going to need to do a lot of research. I guess the, "I can't think of any reason why that idea wouldn't work," sounds pretty naive. Tell me what you know. Do you organize people and money?

 

[Keltaric]

The overhead we pay to model on a high traffic site is ridiculous. I actually like this job, but the industry setup as of now SUCKS. The fees and miniscule cut we get for our hard work causes this looming sense of powerlessness for me.

Do you really think your cut is miniscule? Have you compared it to the cut people get in other industries? Lets break it down a bit and compare it to other industries:

If you get 5 cents from an 8 cent token, you're getting 58% of the gross income.

• A doctor in a hospital gets only a few % of gross, and a lawyer is lucky to get 10-20% of gross.
  
  
• Actors are lucky if they get even 5-10% of gross. Spiderman 2 had a budget of $200 million and grossed $783 million. Only $30 million of that was paid to *ALL* the cast, which means they earned 3.8% of gross. They only earned 10% of the budget. Tobey Macguire earned the most, at $17 million, which was 2.1% of gross.
  
  
• A waiter/waitress typically averages about 15% of gross. If they are really good at a really nice restaurant, they might earn closer to 20%.

So at MFC, you are getting a better cut of total revenue than a doctor, lawyer, actor, or waitress. And you have a lot more control over your job than any of those people.

Many models appear to increase their cut even higher by selling things through their web site either via paypal, chip in, or other methods.

I've read a lot of legitimate complaints here about MFC and my business curiosity is such that I look forward to learning more about that. But from an outsider's perspective, it seems like the cut of gross income that models get is really good. I imagine the real problems are not the cut, but the treatment and some of the other issues that you'd think would be imminently solvable.

 

[Leigh]

The overhead we pay to model on a high traffic site is ridiculous. I actually like this job, but the industry setup as of now SUCKS. The fees and miniscule cut we get for our hard work causes this looming sense of powerlessness for me.

Do you really think your cut is miniscule? Have you compared it to the cut people get in other industries? Lets break it down a bit and compare it to other industries:

If you get 5 cents from an 8 cent token, you're getting 58% of the gross income.

• A doctor in a hospital gets only a few % of gross, and a lawyer is lucky to get 10-20% of gross.
  
  
• Actors are lucky if they get even 5-10% of gross. Spiderman 2 had a budget of $200 million and grossed $783 million. Only $30 million of that was paid to *ALL* the cast, which means they earned 3.8% of gross. They only earned 10% of the budget. Tobey Macguire earned the most, at $17 million, which was 2.1% of gross.
  
  
• A waiter/waitress typically averages about 15% of gross. If they are really good at a really nice restaurant, they might earn closer to 20%.

So at MFC, you are getting a better cut of total revenue than a doctor, lawyer, actor, or waitress. And you have a lot more control over your job than any of those people.

Many models appear to increase their cut even higher by selling things through their web site either via paypal, chip in, or other methods.

I've read a lot of legitimate complaints here about MFC and my business curiosity is such that I look forward to learning more about that. But from an outsider's perspective, it seems like the cut of gross income that models get is really good. I imagine the real problems are not the cut, but the treatment and some of the other issues that you'd think would be imminently solvable.

We are models, not idiots.

Many of us have worked in various industries with varying salaries. We are all capable of comparing our average earnings with any other profession and do not need it breaking down for us.

We are capable of coming to our own conclusions about our earnings based on the time, effort and expenses of the job (yes we have many expenses that people wouldn't necessarily think about). It is not your place to tell us what we should be happy with in our industry.

Looking at your posts you are obviously cooking up some kind of business plan in mind that you are not being open about and see us all as a free source of information. To have found MFC and suddenly the forums in a matter of days and have an opinion about everything is a little far fetched.

If you genuinely want to learn about this industry then READ and you will. We all have two ears and one mouth and should use them in those proportions.

Sorry to get a little off topic with this

 

[Leigh]

Who has created their own independent site and maintained enough traffic? Where do you advertise? Give me details: average hourly wage, what you charge, if you use paypal and skype or not, etc. I am looking to venture off of cams.com and keep a higher percentage of what clients pay me. I know this is possible because it's been done with some of the big names...and yet I still see them on MFC? Does that mean you can advertise other sites while working on MFC?

Right now I charge $5.49 a minute, and $4.94 for fans, which is an outrageous amount. I would gladly charge $3.00 if I was keeping all of it.

On cams.com, I make roughly $65-80 an hour. But I only end up making about 29.05 percent of every dollar that a guest spends on me. Please share any experiences, thanks.

For those who are interested, here is my link if you want to check me out and blow some money and your wad:
https://models.streamray.com/p/page.cgi ... bSaraBliss

If you want to model, my link for referring someone:
http://models.streamray.com/friend/SaraBliss

A solo site really depends on the traffic you already have from various sources. You need a decent amount of people who already follow your camming, make purchases from you, are following your tweets and news etc in order to get traffic to it. People wont really find it by googel-ing random things, you have to direct your own people to it.

Also gauging your followers reactions to the idea of you getting a site is a big indicator. If they are excited to find everything you in one place then great stuff, if they are asking why are you doing that? then they probably wont be excited enough to visit it.

Your market research should be in your market, which is your followers, find out what THEY think of the idea.

If you don't currently have enough people that you could honestly see signing up to your site then your first port of call would be creating your following and you may need to allow a few more months for that.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

The overhead we pay to model on a high traffic site is ridiculous. I actually like this job, but the industry setup as of now SUCKS. The fees and miniscule cut we get for our hard work causes this looming sense of powerlessness for me.

Do you really think your cut is miniscule? Have you compared it to the cut people get in other industries? Lets break it down a bit and compare it to other industries:

If you get 5 cents from an 8 cent token, you're getting 58% of the gross income.

• A doctor in a hospital gets only a few % of gross, and a lawyer is lucky to get 10-20% of gross.
  
  
• Actors are lucky if they get even 5-10% of gross. Spiderman 2 had a budget of $200 million and grossed $783 million. Only $30 million of that was paid to *ALL* the cast, which means they earned 3.8% of gross. They only earned 10% of the budget. Tobey Macguire earned the most, at $17 million, which was 2.1% of gross.
  
  
• A waiter/waitress typically averages about 15% of gross. If they are really good at a really nice restaurant, they might earn closer to 20%.

So at MFC, you are getting a better cut of total revenue than a doctor, lawyer, actor, or waitress. And you have a lot more control over your job than any of those people.

Many models appear to increase their cut even higher by selling things through their web site either via paypal, chip in, or other methods.

I've read a lot of legitimate complaints here about MFC and my business curiosity is such that I look forward to learning more about that. But from an outsider's perspective, it seems like the cut of gross income that models get is really good. I imagine the real problems are not the cut, but the treatment and some of the other issues that you'd think would be imminently solvable.

Dude, why are you on here? Have you ever received a paycheck for your services as a cam model? If not how on earth would you know what we are paid? Where do you get your facts sir?

 

[Keltaric]

We are capable of coming to our own conclusions about our earnings based on the time, effort and expenses of the job (yes we have many expenses that people wouldn't necessarily think about). It is not your place to tell us what we should be happy with in our industry.

Woah. I didn't say you should be happy. Happiness has a lot more to do with money. There are plenty of wealthy people who aren't happy and hate their jobs. I was only looking at that specific statement about the cut, because I think it is valuable to compare it to other industries and see how it stacks up.

But this is a forum, so the point is to discuss things. I was invited to join here, which was how I found it in the first place. I'm sorry if I was supposed to read and not post.

Looking at your posts you are obviously cooking up some kind of business plan in mind that you are not being open about and see us all as a free source of information.

Uh no. I make computer games and have been doing so for a long time. I'm happy with my nerdy little job. I've been really clear about that. I sent Amber a PM with more specifics so she'd know I'm not lying when I say that, but I'd rather keep my personal info private, as I am sure you can understand and identify with.

 

[Keltaric]

Dude, why are you on here? Have you ever received a paycheck for your services as a cam model? If not how on earth would you know what we are paid? Where do you get your facts sir?

Was I wrong about the split?

I haven't been a doctor, an actor, a pro football player, or a whole lot of other jobs, but that doesn't mean I can't learn how their industry or income works by researching it.

I have no idea why I'm getting so much vitriol spewed back when I was simply contributing factual information to the discussion.

When I was invited to the forum I was told it was a cool place where people openly discussed the nitty gritty of MFC and the cam industry as a whole. I spent a couple days reading threads before I even made my first post. It seemed like all manner of opinions and input were tolerated.

I'm not sure what I've posted that set a few people off, but I apologize for whatever misunderstanding I've caused.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

Were you never taught that asking people how much they make or discussing their paychecks is rude? I believe SaraBliss asked what other models were charging not how cam sites pay. You make it seem as if we models are ungrateful and make more than doctors, lawyers and actors. Perhaps we do get a higher cut than those aforementioned jobs however I certainly do not make even close to what those people earn. How dare you.

 

[Keltaric]

Were you never taught that asking people how much they make or discussing their paychecks is rude?

Yes, but I never asked what anyone made. I think models have a tough job in a lot of ways. To have to be "on" for hours at a time (and I don't mean on as in online, I mean at the top of your game personality and performance-wise), to deal with a constant influx of trolls into your room, to deal with people who expect you to do what you do for free, and probably a zillion other challenges. All of that is surely not easy.

I only replied to someone who already opened the discussion of the "miniscule cut" they were earning.

Don't you think it is valuable to look at what percent of gross other people make in other industries, in order to have some perspective?

You make it seem as if we models are ungrateful and make more than doctors, lawyers and actors.

I never said or implied such a thing. If that's the way you choose to interpret it, then you're projecting something on my words that was never stated.

Perhaps we do get a higher cut than those aforementioned jobs however I certainly do not make even close to what those people earn.

How can I possibly respond to this, since you've said at the beginning of your post it is rude to discuss what people make, and then you use what you make personally as a point in a discussion.

From what I have been told directly by people who work on MFC, there are many models who actually *DO* make more than some doctors or lawyers, and certainly more than waitresses, but that wasn't the point at all. You might want to re-read my post without assuming I have some kind of nefarious or cruel purpose. I think doing so will completely change how you react to it.

How dare you.

How dare I? What the heck? Is this a forum for discussion or what?

Instead of assuming I am some kind of vicious troll, I humbly ask that you just read what I'm posting at face value.

 

[Bocefish]

How dare I? What the heck? Is this a forum for discussion or what?

Instead of assuming I am some kind of vicious troll, I humbly ask that you just read what I'm posting at face value.

We have read what you posted and you come across as a person that doesn't seem to comprehend what the fuck we are saying to you.

 

[Keltaric]

How dare I? What the heck? Is this a forum for discussion or what?

Instead of assuming I am some kind of vicious troll, I humbly ask that you just read what I'm posting at face value.

We have read what you posted and you come across as a person that doesn't seem to comprehend what the fuck we are saying to you.

How so?

I'm quite confident I comprehend exactly what is being said. Its pretty clear that the negative reactions are based on assumptions made about my posts rather than the actual content. That may very well be my own fault for not lurking longer before I started new topics of discussion.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure the tone of your reaction is unnecessarily extreme and rude, but that's just my opinion.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

I never stated what I make, did I?

 

[Sevrin]

Dude, why are you on here? Have you ever received a paycheck for your services as a cam model? If not how on earth would you know what we are paid? Where do you get your facts sir?

Was I wrong about the split?

I haven't been a doctor, an actor, a pro football player, or a whole lot of other jobs, but that doesn't mean I can't learn how their industry or income works by researching it.

I have no idea why I'm getting so much vitriol spewed back when I was simply contributing factual information to the discussion.

When I was invited to the forum I was told it was a cool place where people openly discussed the nitty gritty of MFC and the cam industry as a whole. I spent a couple days reading threads before I even made my first post. It seemed like all manner of opinions and input were tolerated.

I'm not sure what I've posted that set a few people off, but I apologize for whatever misunderstanding I've caused.

Your comparisons were uninformed and your tone is condescending. Models provide the vast majority of the value at a cam site. Some models, including most of my favourites, don't only pay the cam site, they have studios living off them, as well. A single actor does not provide the majority of the value in a movie presentation, unless they also finance, write, cater, direct, light, produce, score, edit and truck the movie to the theatres where they also sweep the floors. A single doctor doesn't provide the majority of the value received by a patient in the normal course of treatment, however central her role may be. A single football player does not provide all the value when his team plays.

We're a community of cam goddesses and adoring perverts. If you had presented yourself as either of those, you would be more welcome, but it appears that you are not one of us. We are not a lost tribe of pygmies for some anthropologist's thesis or a resource or grist for anyone's mill, fascinating little corner of the internet demimonde though we may be. I guess you could say that you are disliked and definitely distrusted on principle.

 

[Keltaric]

I never stated what I make, did I?

Perhaps we do get a higher cut than those aforementioned jobs however I certainly do not make even close to what those people earn.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

My answer was pretty vague and you still do not know what I make do you? Btw how is that business plan coming?

 

[Keltaric]

Your comparisons were uninformed

Can you provide a specific example of how my comparisons were uninformed? I almost posted links to the exact data, but I felt that was unnecessary. If I had, would you no longer think the comparisons were uninformed?

and your tone is condescending.

Making assumptions about people's tone in a written medium is dangerous and almost always inaccurate.

Models provide the vast majority of the value at a cam site.

That's true. Similarly, lawyers provide the vast majority of value in a law firm, doctors in a hospital, and pro sports players for pro sports. As for movies, you could add up the total cost of all the principals in the movie (actors, writers, grips, set designers, costume designers, etc.) and it is still less than 58% of gross.

I never claimed there is an absolute correlation between cam model and other professions, but for the sake of perspective it is at least useful to look what percent of gross other professions earn.

We are not a lost tribe of pygmies for some anthropologist's thesis

Heh. That's clever.

I guess you could say that you are disliked and definitely distrusted on principle.

That is pretty clear. I wish I'd been warned in advance that this community was not very tolerant of newcomers. I would have been a lot more careful if I'd known.

 

[Keltaric]

My answer was pretty vague and you still do not know what I make do you?

No, what's your point? I never claimed to want to know what you made. In fact, I am explicitly stating that I do not care or want to know. You're the one who brought it up, right after saying it is rude to talk about how much someone makes. That's what made it impossible to respond to without antagonizing you further.

Btw how is that business plan coming?

Business plans are never complete. For any good business, they are in a constant state of evolution. Are you working on a business plan and looking for advice? I'd be more than happy to provide advice in that area if that's what you're asking.

 

[ScarlettLeigh]

For someone who is here to learn you do an awful lot of talking.

 

[Sevrin]

That is pretty clear. I wish I'd been warned in advance that this community was not very tolerant of newcomers. I would have been a lot more careful if I'd known.

Oh, we're very welcoming of newcomers, but outsiders, not so much.

 

[Bocefish]

That may very well be my own fault for not lurking longer before I started new topics of discussion.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure the tone of your reaction is unnecessarily extreme and rude, but that's just my opinion.

:naughty:

Somewhere between flippant and glib perhaps I may be, but rudeness is a special talent I reserve for those deserving.

 

[Keltaric]

Oh, we're very welcoming of newcomers, but outsiders, not so much.

Every newcomer begins as an outsider. It is how they are treated that determines whether they remain as such.