Trayvon Martin

[JickyJuly]

I was thinking that maybe some of you are following this gut wrenching story as well or would be interested. It's heartbreaking and insanely disturbing that a 17 year old kid wandering through his Dad's neighborhood with candy and tea is somehow a fair target.
I actually live relatively near to this area of Florida. If it's suddenly legal to murder people you dislike here as long as their skin is darker than your own, my pale ass might pay off. *adds George Zimmerman to new, legal hit list*
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03 ... explaineda
If you're not in the mood to read, scroll down and listen to the 911 audios.

 

[NancyNoNude2012]

If it's suddenly legal to murder people you dislike here as long as their skin is darker than your own, my pale ass might pay off. *adds George Zimmerman to new, legal hit list*

EXACTLY! Rapists/child molesters and racists who do this shit are on the top of my new "F*ckers I gotta kill" list.

 

[Shaun__]

I have been reading about this, but I have never saw anywhere why this man felt his life was threatened or how the fight started. This never should have happened.

I fixed your link also.

 

[JickyJuly]

Thanks Shaun. I'm better at being outraged than being techiefied. The 911 calls are what really got me. He sounds half asleep, not at all frightened (if he was frightened by a kid with candy, perhaps my hit list should note that he is a mercy killing) and almost as though he was asking permission to use force. If he gets away with this, I'd like to take him up to where I'm from, and show him what suspicious people and self defense really are. I'm a little hopped up.

 

[sweetiebatman]

This is quite fucked up to be honest, seems some have a go neighbourhood watch "hero" got some profiling in his head.

In my humble opinion gun control laws in the US are shocking. Theres always the chance someone who appears completely normal to all checks that can be done can go off the rails or even, in some twisted logic think they are doing the right thing

The right to bear arms has no place in a civilised society IMO (please dont rip my head off!) All countries have a police and a military. In England if someone breaks into your property the use of "reasonable force" is sanctioned

 

[Nordling]

We seem to be living in a schizophrenic society, where paranoia, bigotry and fear trumps reason and sanity.

At about the 4:15 mark in this audio, you can hear the killer whispering "f'n coon" while talking to the dispatcher. You may have to play it a couple times. I missed it until someone brought it to my attention.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/trayvon-martin-case-raw-911-calls-28658548.html

A lot of the audios I'd heard before were censored. This one is pretty raw.

 

[Mirra]

Actually it seems the key is to emulate the cops and make them feel sympathetic to your racist motivations while disguising it by waving a banner of "crime prevention" so they don't even realize what they're doing till someone calls them on it.

 

[Bocefish]

There seems to be a lot of people jumping to conclusions about it being a racist thing which isn't helping matters. I listened to the tape at the 4:15 mark and sounded like he was rattling a fence and mumbled "fucking post'' perhaps, I dunno. There's a whole shitload of questions that we don't have answers to. Now that the feds are involved, hopefully everybody will get some answers.

 

[Nordling]

There seems to be a lot of people jumping to conclusions about it being a racist thing which isn't helping matters. I listened to the tape at the 4:15 mark and sounded like he was rattling a fence and mumbled "fucking post'' perhaps, I dunno. There's a whole shitload of questions that we don't have answers to. Now that the feds are involved, hopefully everybody will get some answers.

From what we've read so far about Mr. Zimmerman, I wouldn't say that concluding a racist component isn't something people are JUMPING to but rather, falling into, like a game pit. He quacks like a duck and lies. His entire history is about being obsessed with black people in his community. Did you know that the photo of Zimmerman that we see is a MUG shot? It's from when he was arrested for assaulting a police officer--a charge they dropped over some technicality. In the last year or so, he's called 911 46 times and in nearly all cases they were over trivial "fears."

 

[Bocefish]

he's called 911 46 times and in nearly all cases they were over trivial "fears."

The writing was on the wall and his concealed carry license should have been investigated, if not suspended or revoked completely. There's no doubt this was a totally avoidable tragedy and from what little I've heard and read, he should at least be in police custody facing manslaughter charges. Like I said, a shitload of questions we don't have answers to.

 

[JickyJuly]

There seems to be a lot of people jumping to conclusions about it being a racist thing which isn't helping matters. I listened to the tape at the 4:15 mark and sounded like he was rattling a fence and mumbled "fucking post'' perhaps, I dunno. There's a whole shitload of questions that we don't have answers to. Now that the feds are involved, hopefully everybody will get some answers.

If he'd shot the fucking post, he'd probably actually be in trouble. He clearly says "These assholes they always get away". Maybe the "assholes" he's referencing aren't a particular racial group, but I'd say it's some group that he feels bias against. Racially motivated or not, he knowingly shot a kid with zero fear in his voice. That seriously sucks.

I think part of the problem is that the 911 operator didn't call him out on his nonsense sooner. Not that the operator has blood on his hands, of course, but Zimmerman was obvs getting pumped when he started swearing. It would have been a good time for the operator to get a little tougher. Whoever dropped the ball with this nutter's gun license shares some bloody hands imo. Maybe some reform will come of this.

 

[LadyLuna]

The right to bear arms has no place in a civilised society IMO (please dont rip my head off!) All countries have a police and a military. In England if someone breaks into your property the use of "reasonable force" is sanctioned

All taking away the right to bear arms will do is make sure that the only people who have guns are criminals and police officers. And in some places, it's practically impossible to get a policeman to get to the scene of a crime quickly. The only real way to get a fast response is to sound like a scared young-adult-female (which, as luck would have it, was the only thing I can sound like when I'm calling the cops ).

Making gun carrying illegal just makes it easier for criminals to pick their targets, because they don't have to wonder if their target is packing or not.

That said, yes, this fucker should not have been let anywhere near a gun.

 

[sweetiebatman]

I completely see what you are saying but most Western societies have strict gun laws, and from my personal point of view I feel safer knowing that everyone i walk into might not be packing heat, lesser so that only the most elite police might me carrying weapons

The US has the highest amount of gun crime per capita in the developed world, and its not difficult to see why when you can pick up a piece at a Walmart

 

[Nordling]

Yes, and neither major political party have been suggesting taking away our right to bear arms.

However, the lack of regulation has reached an absurd level. I see no reason for anyone to own or carry around an assault weapon, e.g. Next: home nukes.

This new law in Florida and (If I recall) 17 other states called the "stand your ground" law is an example of this insanity.

 

[Bocefish]

He clearly says "These assholes they always get away". Maybe the "assholes" he's referencing aren't a particular racial group, but I'd say it's some group that he feels bias against. Racially motivated or not, he knowingly shot a kid with zero fear in his voice. That seriously sucks.

When he said "These assholes they always get away" it was shortly after he said there had been several burglaries in the area lately. I didn't pick up on anything racial. I also haven't heard the audio when the shooting actually occurred, so I don't know about the shooter having zero fear in his voice. I do think the dispatcher should have clearly stated STOP following him and go inside instead of "we don't need you to do that." This tragedy may very well have racial overtones involved, but I have yet to see any reasonable evidence of that myself.

 

[Nordling]

The mentality we're dealing with in regard to Mr. Zimmerman is defined almost perfectly in this dated (2003) piece of bitter satire by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/26/usa.iraq

btw, we do have "evidence" of bigotry, just not proof.

 

[Bocefish]

The part I am at a complete and total loss for is why the shooter is not in custody. Several witnesses heard the words "Help, Help" immediately prior to the shooting. That alone, makes no sense if the victim was supposedly threatening Zimmerman. Maybe they are trying to gather evidence for a more punitive charge than manslaughter, I dunno. Too many unanswered questions.

 

[Nordling]

The part I am at a complete and total loss for is why the shooter is not in custody. Several witnesses heard the words "Help, Help" immediately prior to the shooting. That alone, makes no sense if the victim was supposedly threatening Zimmerman. Maybe they are trying to gather evidence for a more punitive charge than manslaughter, I dunno. Too many unanswered questions.

Yes, tons. I'm just glad this was picked up by the media finally (several days passed before Trayvon was even identified, even though the police had his cell phone and he'd JUST been talking to a girlfriend before he was murdered by a lunatic).

As far as the cries for "help, help," Zimmerman claimed that was HIS voice. Yes, laughable, I know. Even though the cries for help were unclear that didn't sound anything like a 250 lb, 28 year old lunatic. They did sound very much like a 150 lb 17 year old child.

Trayvon's family even had to file a missing person's report before the city finally decided to actually identify the victim.

To me, these elements are ALL "evidence" of a cover up. What we need to know are the motives.

 

[JickyJuly]

I bow to the calm way you process things out for yourself Boce. :bow-blue: Once I'm angry, my brain goes straight to punchy mode. If the police have dealt with this guy in the past, maybe they are trying to move slowly to gather enough to keep the loon off the streets.

@batman Guns probably don't have much place in civilized society, but America isn't really one of those. Hehehe. It's scary enough living in a place where everyone and their Grandma owns a gun. It would be way worse if, as Luna pointed out, the only serious weaponry was held by criminals and cops. Gun owning Grandmas are pretty awesome, anyway.

@Luna You're lucky you sound scared. Hehe. I always sound stoned. No matter what I'm trying to say to the fuzz, they ask me repeatedly about marijuana. Last week, in Subway (which is near our piddly sheriff dept), a cop was in front of me. While he was paying, he turned and asked me if I'd been smoking. I said no, but gave him permission to buy me a cookie anyway. Didn't go over as well as expected. For the record, I smoke like once a year. I'm being profiled for my squinty eyes and silly voice. Bastard could have at least bought me a damned cookie. Hehehe.

 

[sweetiebatman]

Thats the thing Jicky! In most western societies the only legal guns are held by the Elite police trained to use them and all have a significantly lower gun crime rate than the US

Here in sunny England, The The Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the carrying of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. This encompasses guns, Knives etc A person cannot merely carry a knife around with him for self defence as the courts will not regard this as reasonable excuse. The threat has to be believed to be real and imminent. A person with fishing tackle and carrying a knife or on a camping expedition would have a reasonable excuse for carrying a knife.

Common sense, it is quite difficult to get any kind of offensive weapon legally in the UK

 

[sweetiebatman]

I bow to the calm way you process things out for yourself Boce. :bow-blue: Once I'm angry, my brain goes straight to punchy mode. If the police have dealt with this guy in the past, maybe they are trying to move slowly to gather enough to keep the loon off the streets.

@batman Guns probably don't have much place in civilized society, but America isn't really one of those. Hehehe. It's scary enough living in a place where everyone and their Grandma owns a gun. It would be way worse if, as Luna pointed out, the only serious weaponry was held by criminals and cops. Gun owning Grandmas are pretty awesome, anyway.

@Luna You're lucky you sound scared. Hehe. I always sound stoned. No matter what I'm trying to say to the fuzz, they ask me repeatedly about marijuana. Last week, in Subway (which is near our piddly sheriff dept), a cop was in front of me. While he was paying, he turned and asked me if I'd been smoking. I said no, but gave him permission to buy me a cookie anyway. Didn't go over as well as expected. For the record, I smoke like once a year. I'm being profiled for my squinty eyes and silly voice. Bastard could have at least bought me a damned cookie. Hehehe.

I only just read your answer to Luna, and after being all serious and shit, I lolled my little tits off :lol:

 

[LadyLuna]

Thats the thing Jicky! In most western societies the only legal guns are held by the Elite police trained to use them and all have a significantly lower gun crime rate than the US

Here in sunny England, The The Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the carrying of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. This encompasses guns, Knives etc A person cannot merely carry a knife around with him for self defence as the courts will not regard this as reasonable excuse. The threat has to be believed to be real and imminent. A person with fishing tackle and carrying a knife or on a camping expedition would have a reasonable excuse for carrying a knife.

Common sense, it is quite difficult to get any kind of offensive weapon legally in the UK

I'm curious if they also have as much of a black market as the US does...

Either way, being allowed to carry guns is a time-honored tradition that in America goes all the way back to our war for independence, where a good bit of the fighting was done by farmers, and not really any army.

Also, I *really* don't want the government to be the only ones with the guns right now. I'm not completely paranoid, but only because I know if the government attempted to introduce a military state, some of the citizens would actually be capable of defending themselves against it. Basically, the right to bear arms in the US is based on our paranoia of a dictatorship government takeover- it was believed that one day we might have to fight for our freedoms down to the last man, woman, and child, and to do that we'd all need access to weapons we've been trained to use.

 

[sweetiebatman]

In answer to this, and again I am in no way very well educated in US constitutional law but are the tragedies at Virginia Tech and Colombine too high a price to pay for time honoured tradition and what I would call misplaced and outdated paranoia

Again, I'm not being personal and its a highly emotive issue but its questions the whole world asks every time one of these tragedies occurs

 

[Bocefish]

In answer to this, and again I am in no way very well educated in US constitutional law but are the tragedies at Virginia Tech and Colombine too high a price to pay for time honoured tradition and what I would call misplaced and outdated paranoia

Again, I'm not being personal and its a highly emotive issue but its questions the whole world asks every time one of these tragedies occurs

If I'm not mistaken, the laws in France are similar to the laws in the UK. That didn't stop the recent shootings in France. Last weekend there were 36 shootings with 47 victims in Chicago, but the fact those guns are illegal didn't stop anything. There is sound scientific evidence that outlawing guns increases crime rates, not to mention it's part of the U.S. Constitution. Since the Virginia Tech incident, I believe they have actually allowed more concealed carry permits on campus.

 

[sweetiebatman]

But the gun crime statistics does not marry up with this, The US is up there with the likes of El Salvador, Columbia and Brazil, It is the highest "1st world" nation up there

There is a pattern of gun abuse in the US not prevalent in the rest of Western society, French gun laws are much much less restrictive than the UK

 

[Harvrath]

There is an estimated 50-100 million gun-owners in the United States, with the number of privately owned firearms reaching in excess of 300 Million firearms. If you have an irrational fear of firearms and people who own them, please do not step out of your fucking house.

Sincerely
The American Citizenry

 

[Bocefish]

This is far from an isolated incident:



When the criminals give up their weapons, I'll stop carrying mine when I feel the need to. Until then, I will continue to do so because police officers are way too heavy to lug around. Guns are far from the only means of violent crime.

Just did a quick search and came up with the following article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... urope.html

UK is violent crime capital of Europe

The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

 

[sweetiebatman]

So thats a 5 year old article about violent crime that mentions nothing about gun crime, adding into that a horrible ratio based comparison that does not favour the smaller nations, I mean Austria, that hub of world crime comes second :lol:

 

[Nordling]

So thats a 5 year old article about violent crime that mentions nothing about gun crime, adding into that a horrible ratio based comparison that does not favour the smaller nations, I mean Austria, that hub of world crime comes second :lol:

Plus I wouldn't trust the Telegraph on this subject. It's definitely a conservative-leaning rag. Notice the little dig the article used about the Labor Party? Not what I call great journalism. May as well ask Fox news. lol

 

[Shaun__]

In England if someone breaks into your property the use of "reasonable force" is sanctioned

Unless they break in while you are walking your dog and change the locks. Link

In answer to this, and again I am in no way very well educated in US constitutional law but are the tragedies at Virginia Tech and Colombine too high a price to pay for time honoured tradition and what I would call misplaced and outdated paranoia

Again, I'm not being personal and its a highly emotive issue but its questions the whole world asks every time one of these tragedies occurs

I think they would have hurt a lot more people using a shotgun, and you can still have those in your home with a license, I think. They could have also just stolen a SUV and drove into a crowd. Outlawing weapons may make crimes more difficult to commit, but a determined person will still be able to do them.