Vore. A new York policeman has some explaining to do.

[Red7227]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 42/1/.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... 1636.story

 

[AllisonWilder]

Both links are broken.

 

[Red7227]

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 42/1/.html

 

[Mirra]

Ugh... reading that gave me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

@_@


how much you wanna bet this makes an appearance in some way on SVU or one of those shows???

 

[Just Me]

The idea of it and everything that is alleged to be involved are reprehensible to me, but I can't help thinking, when does this become a crime and not just a thought? I have a real difficulty with conspiracy crimes and wondering where does it end. Once you tell your thoughts to someone else and plan with them? Conspiracy

I can't help thinking of this:

 

[Red7227]

The idea of it and everything that is alleged to be involved are reprehensible to me, but I can't help thinking, when does this become a crime and not just a thought? I have a real difficulty with conspiracy crimes and wondering where does it end. Once you tell your thoughts to someone else and plan with them? Conspiracy

Well, he has offered to take money to conduct a kidnapping, which from my view is as good as the real thing. He has also used a federal database to create his list which is up to another 5 years according to the article.

Vore is a known fetish viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9064 but wanting to carry out something on an unwilling victim that is going to be monstrously painful to the recipient and lead to her death is not OK.

 

[Rose]

The fact that he's a police officer and wanted to do this to UNwilling victims is what bothered me the most.

 

[Nordling]

The whole thing disturbs me. Even if he had never intended to carry out the crime; just discussing it with someone in all seriousness totally disgusts me. That he was apparently approaching the point of actually carrying it out I find horrific.

 

[LadyLuna]

I can understand fantasizing about it. I can't understand actually trying to make it happen.

Discussing it with someone? Depends on the situation. Discussing a fantasy that you had with someone is fine. Discussing how to make a fantasy you had actually happen with someone is only fine when that fantasy doesn't rob someone else of their right to be happy, healthy, and whole.

 

[Nordling]

I can understand fantasizing about it. I can't understand actually trying to make it happen.

Discussing it with someone? Depends on the situation. Discussing a fantasy that you had with someone is fine. Discussing how to make a fantasy you had actually happen with someone is only fine when that fantasy doesn't rob someone else of their right to be happy, healthy, and whole.

I won't be judgmental, but to me, an admittedly pretty boring person, the whole concept of fantasizing about torturing a woman to death by cooking her, and then eating her cooked parts is still disgusting. Anyone who has such fantasies, I'd just as soon they keep it to themselves or go see a psychiatrist.

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

 

[Jupiter551]

If it had simply been a fantasy he never would have been arrested, it's the fact that he took steps toward carrying it out (collecting info on targets, working out a plan with a collaborator etc) is why he's in jail/court. It makes sense that police shouldn't have to wait for you to murder someone before they can do anything about it - reasonable proof you're planning to is good enough.

 

[Red7227]

I won't be judgmental, but to me, an admittedly pretty boring person, the whole concept of fantasizing about torturing a woman to death by cooking her, and then eating her cooked parts is still disgusting. Anyone who has such fantasies, I'd just as soon they keep it to themselves or go see a psychiatrist.

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

I have far darker fantasies than this guy, but they are nobody's business but mine. Nice fantasies are for nice people, the rest of us make do with what gets us though the day.

 

[LadyLuna]

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

I used to have nice fantasies... then I hit puberty. Now, some nights, it takes imagining someone killing me for me to fall asleep properly.

 

[Just Me]

If it had simply been a fantasy he never would have been arrested, it's the fact that he took steps toward carrying it out (collecting info on targets, working out a plan with a collaborator etc) is why he's in jail/court. It makes sense that police shouldn't have to wait for you to murder someone before they can do anything about it - reasonable proof you're planning to is good enough.

But lets take it a little further, what if the persons fantasy is to go through all the steps but would never actually harm someone? If they don't break any laws along the way is it a crime?
Does it make sense that the police shouldn't have to wait for a crime to be committed before they step in?

Obviously this has been discussed before by wiser people than us. :lol: Thus the differences in what constitutes conspiracy in different jurisdictions. I can't say one way or another whether this particular instance went too far, I don't know the whole story or what evidence they have. It is very disturbing that he is a NYC cop and just the fantasy alone would certainly be enough to fire him if he disclosed it with other people. You would think psych evaluations would catch people like this.

It does present an interesting philosophical discussion as science advances with things like functional MRI's. You can foresee a time where a Minority Report type system could happen but with machines instead of clairvoyants. When does thought become intent?

 

[Nordling]

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

I used to have nice fantasies... then I hit puberty. Now, some nights, it takes imagining someone killing me for me to fall asleep properly.

I understand. I can't completely relate, because I guess I'm lucky. I do have nightmares, but they have the opposite effect on me. I admire you a lot for your humor and wisdom, and do hope that someday you can fall asleep imagining daffodils and hummingbirds.

 

[Jupiter551]

If it had simply been a fantasy he never would have been arrested, it's the fact that he took steps toward carrying it out (collecting info on targets, working out a plan with a collaborator etc) is why he's in jail/court. It makes sense that police shouldn't have to wait for you to murder someone before they can do anything about it - reasonable proof you're planning to is good enough.

But lets take it a little further, what if the persons fantasy is to go through all the steps but would never actually harm someone? If they don't break any laws along the way is it a crime?
Does it make sense that the police shouldn't have to wait for a crime to be committed before they step in?

Obviously this has been discussed before by wiser people than us. :lol: Thus the differences in what constitutes conspiracy in different jurisdictions. I can't say one way or another whether this particular instance went too far, I don't know the whole story or what evidence they have. It is very disturbing that he is a NYC cop and just the fantasy alone would certainly be enough to fire him if he disclosed it with other people. You would think psych evaluations would catch people like this.

It does present an interesting philosophical discussion as science advances with things like functional MRI's. You can foresee a time where a Minority Report type system could happen but with machines instead of clairvoyants. When does thought become intent?

Well I don't know when thought becomes intent but I suspect it's an argument that's come up in both defense and prosecution cases in court countless times. A lot of things that go before a court aren't that clearly defined - not everyone is caught red-handed, yet if they're guilty they still need to be sentenced. It's one of the reasons a jury is there, a jury is (supposed to be) a reasonable cross-section of a society that is able to represent a society's values and feelings about a case.

There are lots of arguments for and against what constitutes "intent", most of it centers around at least some form of preliminary action. On this guy though, they got him on Conspiracy and misusing official computers or whatever for the dossiers he compiled. I reckon the co-conspirator probably went to police, or was an undercover policeman. Conspiracy is the agreement to commit a crime. So they made the agreement, and the guy got busted for it - not much different than a drug bust really.

 

[LadyLuna]

I have had discussions with people about things that they would never actually do. The discussions were always prefaced with "I would never actually ___, but if I did...." and usually ended with "but as I said, I wouldn't actually do that."

My friends tend to be as dark and twisted as I am.

 

[Jupiter551]

I have had discussions with people about things that they would never actually do. The discussions were always prefaced with "I would never actually ___, but if I did...." and usually ended with "but as I said, I wouldn't actually do that."

My friends tend to be as dark and twisted as I am.

Right, as opposed to saying something like "Ok, you grab the car I'll grab the axe!" (and dashing off to grab the axe)

 

[Just Me]

If it had simply been a fantasy he never would have been arrested, it's the fact that he took steps toward carrying it out (collecting info on targets, working out a plan with a collaborator etc) is why he's in jail/court. It makes sense that police shouldn't have to wait for you to murder someone before they can do anything about it - reasonable proof you're planning to is good enough.

But lets take it a little further, what if the persons fantasy is to go through all the steps but would never actually harm someone? If they don't break any laws along the way is it a crime?
Does it make sense that the police shouldn't have to wait for a crime to be committed before they step in?

Obviously this has been discussed before by wiser people than us. :lol: Thus the differences in what constitutes conspiracy in different jurisdictions. I can't say one way or another whether this particular instance went too far, I don't know the whole story or what evidence they have. It is very disturbing that he is a NYC cop and just the fantasy alone would certainly be enough to fire him if he disclosed it with other people. You would think psych evaluations would catch people like this.

It does present an interesting philosophical discussion as science advances with things like functional MRI's. You can foresee a time where a Minority Report type system could happen but with machines instead of clairvoyants. When does thought become intent?

Well I don't know when thought becomes intent but I suspect it's an argument that's come up in both defense and prosecution cases in court countless times. A lot of things that go before a court aren't that clearly defined - not everyone is caught red-handed, yet if they're guilty they still need to be sentenced. It's one of the reasons a jury is there, a jury is (supposed to be) a reasonable cross-section of a society that is able to represent a society's values and feelings about a case.

There are lots of arguments for and against what constitutes "intent", most of it centers around at least some form of preliminary action. On this guy though, they got him on Conspiracy and misusing official computers or whatever for the dossiers he compiled. I reckon the co-conspirator probably went to police, or was an undercover policeman. Conspiracy is the agreement to commit a crime. So they made the agreement, and the guy got busted for it - not much different than a drug bust really.

Actually, it is quite different from a drug bust. Just possession of drugs can be a crime. If they wan't to prosecute further or make it a more serious offence then intent to distribute or other crimes might become involved.

Reading a bit more, it appears he asked for, accepted(not clear) or the other party offered money to start doing this. At that point, I suppose it is no different than a murder for hire case. There they have a clear case of intent with a monetary component. Of course the headlines don't claim that, they go for the most sensational aspect of it.

 

[Jupiter551]

Reading a bit more, it appears he asked for, accepted(not clear) or the other party offered money to start doing this. At that point, I suppose it is no different than a murder for hire case. There they have a clear case of intent with a monetary component. Of course the headlines don't claim that, they go for the most sensational aspect of it.

Right but a) he's a cop, b) he planned to kill them in a particularly torturous way (cooking them alive) c) he used his powers as a cop to collect personal info on like a hundred victims or something.

Sure those make for a good newspaper story but they're also pretty serious matters over and above a 'simple' murder-for-hire conspiracy.

 

[Jupiter551]

Reading a bit more, it appears he asked for, accepted(not clear) or the other party offered money to start doing this. At that point, I suppose it is no different than a murder for hire case. There they have a clear case of intent with a monetary component. Of course the headlines don't claim that, they go for the most sensational aspect of it.

Right but a) he's a cop, b) he planned to kill them in a particularly torturous way (cooking them alive) c) he used his powers as a cop to collect personal info on like a hundred victims or something.

Sure those make for a good newspaper story but they're also pretty serious matters over and above a 'simple' murder-for-hire conspiracy.

AND he took one of his targets out to dinner..... :shock:

yeah that too lol, I think he will have a very hard time convincing a judge or jury that this was all just some sick fantasy

 

[Just Me]

Reading a bit more, it appears he asked for, accepted(not clear) or the other party offered money to start doing this. At that point, I suppose it is no different than a murder for hire case. There they have a clear case of intent with a monetary component. Of course the headlines don't claim that, they go for the most sensational aspect of it.

Right but a) he's a cop, b) he planned to kill them in a particularly torturous way (cooking them alive) c) he used his powers as a cop to collect personal info on like a hundred victims or something.

Sure those make for a good newspaper story but they're also pretty serious matters over and above a 'simple' murder-for-hire conspiracy.

AND he took one of his targets out to dinner..... :shock:

Well that is just good planning. Fatten them up. :lol:

 

[Mirra]

AND he took one of his targets out to dinner..... :shock:

Well that is just good planning. Fatten them up. :lol:

 

[Jupiter551]

Well that is just good planning. Fatten them up. :lol:

Yeah as long as he doesn't make them nervous (and therefore tough!)

 

[SoTxBob]

Well that is just good planning. Fatten them up. :lol:

Yeah as long as he doesn't make them nervous (and therefore tough!)

and really.... WTH was he thinking? ANY hunter knows that you must gut the carcass before you roast. Otherwise you ruin the taste of the meat. Nao, who has the fava beans and Chianti? :dance:

 

[jackie_O]

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

I used to have nice fantasies... then I hit puberty. Now, some nights, it takes imagining someone killing me for me to fall asleep properly.

I understand. I can't completely relate, because I guess I'm lucky. I do have nightmares, but they have the opposite effect on me. I admire you a lot for your humor and wisdom, and do hope that someday you can fall asleep imagining daffodils and hummingbirds.

But wouldn't that be bestiality... okay I'll see myself out...

 

[Nordling]

:lol:

 

[LadyLuna]

I mean, jeeze can't we have NICE fantasies...no matter how bizarre? Like pretend you just turned into a giant okra pod and befriended a marshmallow and go on adventures together while eating blue cotton candy. lol

I used to have nice fantasies... then I hit puberty. Now, some nights, it takes imagining someone killing me for me to fall asleep properly.

I understand. I can't completely relate, because I guess I'm lucky. I do have nightmares, but they have the opposite effect on me. I admire you a lot for your humor and wisdom, and do hope that someday you can fall asleep imagining daffodils and hummingbirds.

But wouldn't that be bestiality... okay I'll see myself out...

Oh yeah bb, stick your beak in it! further! Now the tongue. OH that tongue! All up in that flower. mmm

 

[Jupiter551]

Oh yeah bb, stick your beak in it! further! Now the tongue. OH that tongue! All up in that flower. mmm

Wow you're FAR too good at that for me not to suspect you've roleplayed a hummingbird before