What type of feminist are you?

[PunkInDrublic]

I always see people on the internet calling themselves feminists but I really never know what they mean. It seems all you have to do to be a feminist is to call yourself one, which is weird to me but whatever. When you hear the word, what do you think of? If you call yourself a feminist, which type do you follow/agree with and what do you do that makes you a feminist?

 

[DuoShi]

When I think of "feminist", I think of a woman that wants/fights for equality between men and women in all aspects of life. I know people include men in that too, as far as being a feminist goes, but that's not the first thing I think of. Feminist or not, I just treat everyone the same...with indifference.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

“A feminist is any woman who tells the truth about her life.” Virginia Woolf

I consider myself a feminist because I do things for me. I wear makeup, I spend too much money on clothes, I make my husband dinner, I masturbate on the Internet.. I do these things because I want to and not to seek outside approval. I don't think any two people can call themselves feminist and automatically have the same values. I actually very rarely use the term feminist because I don't believe in what a lot of modern feminism stands for and its not something I typically want to be associated with.

 

[Rose]

I don't consider myself an object or a piece of property. :handgestures-salute:

 

[YelloMit]

When I think of "feminist", I think of a woman that wants/fights for equality between men and women in all aspects of life. I know people include men in that too, as far as being a feminist goes, but that's not the first thing I think of. Feminist or not, I just treat everyone the same...with indifference.

Pretty much this. Don't really need to add anything to it.

 

[Ambers Troll]

If I were a woman, I would be on the more extreme side.

I am one of those guys well aware of all the inequalities men face in this world (especially in regard to health, lifestyle, and love), due to our gender roles. Sadly we have placed ourself in this position as much as women have asked us to be there... sound familiar?
I tend to back feminists, especially the most extreme, they will create more change for suffering men. Sorry men can't be feminists, we can only support women who are.

 

[Tristyn]

I am a feminist by definition: I believe in equal social, economic, legal and political rights for everyone on the gender spectrum, regardless of biological sex.

Modern feminism as a political movement mostly just pisses me off, though, so there is that.

 

[eclipse76]

If you go further than the simplistic dictionary definition, there are close to 40 different movements within feminism, with goals and methods which are sometimes in opposition. Good luck.

 

[AmberCutie]

I feel like the odd one out since I am not one. Especially around the parts of the Internet that I spend most of my time in.

 

[ramblin]

I'm the Joss Whedon type of feminist. One that believes women are people.

...and I find it strange that other guys would think guys can't be feminists, but I guess that goes back to all the conflicting definitions and movements.


edit: Just found this very entertaining talk from Joss about the word itself, the challenges around it, and the simplicity of his interpretation:

 

[AmberCutie]

It's comments like this:

One that believes women are people.

that make me feel weird. Do I have to be a "feminist" if I feel this way, too? Isn't this sort of sentiment part of being human? I would say that instead of labeling a person who believes women are people as "feminist", we label those who don't as "assholes."

 

[mynameisbob84]

I subscribe to the most simple definition of the word and think that if you're someone who believes in equality for men and women, then, by definition, you're a feminist. I think it is kinda fucked up that we have to have a word and a complicated movement to help us sift through the people who believe that women are inherently inferior to men just to be able to identify the people who have the basic decency and humanity to not think that way, but then I remember that there are millions of people who do think that way and I remember how fucked up the world we live in is.

 

[Elsalil_Stiller]

I am absolutely a feminist. Dyed in the wool, yet I shave my pussy.

The funny thing is that I realize that patriarchy still exists and I exploit the fuck out of it. I've been in the sex industry for over a decade, knowing full well that I won't get paid equally for equal work that a man could do (office stuff, I guess), but my vagina is a goldmine, and I may as well use it while it's still a taboo secret thing. Once feminism really takes off, my pussy won't be as powerful. Right now it's special because not everyone has one, and most of the people that do are too scared to use it because they've either been trained that "good girls don't" or they've heard someone misuse "feminist" too many times and they feel stuck between wanting to break the mold, but not wanting to be "shrill."

I've never met a sex worker who wasn't a feminist, but I'm still new to ACF and I don't know anyone who has been trafficked. Basically, if you're smart enough to use your looks and body for money, then you're probably a feminist, whether you like the way you've heard it defined or not.

That said, I should probably get back to my Steven Pinker book about how the mind works to construe meaning from/on language.

Can I get a "Ferdinand de Saussure" up in this mutha!?!??!

 

[eclipse76]

I've never met a sex worker who wasn't a feminist, but I'm still new to ACF and I don't know anyone who has been trafficked. Basically, if you're smart enough to use your looks and body for money, then you're probably a feminist, whether you like the way you've heard it defined or not.

You've got our resident gnome abductee for ex, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroiA2xBN1s

I've heard about this sex worker too: http://therealpornwikileaks.com/sex-worker-academia-doesnt-care-empowerment/

edit: also what makes you think feminism has not already taken off? It's one of the most powerful and most well funded lobby in the US.

 

[Elsalil_Stiller]

I've never met a sex worker who wasn't a feminist, but I'm still new to ACF and I don't know anyone who has been trafficked. Basically, if you're smart enough to use your looks and body for money, then you're probably a feminist, whether you like the way you've heard it defined or not.

You've got our resident gnome abductee for ex, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rroiA2xBN1s

I've heard about this sex worker too: http://therealpornwikileaks.com/sex-worker-academia-doesnt-care-empowerment/

edit: also what makes you think feminism has not already taken off? It's one of the most powerful and most well funded lobby in the US.

1) the youtube link: again, she's arguing that it has to do with the use of the word, which she disagrees with, not its dictionary definition. Language exists within culture, not outside of it, so social context is important. She raises a good point. As I mentioned, I just bought a Pinker book literally yesterday, so I still need to think more on the topic. I will return after I have perused his work (by the way, peruse means to study carefully, not "browse").

2) The issue of empowerment. I'm not sure I used that word in my original post, and frankly I enjoyed the linked article. I'm still working for tips which makes me feel beholden to someone else. But I've worked for tips or commission for long enough that I see it more as "you make what you earn." Issues of labor and empowerment are not for me. I'm an anthropologist, not a sociologist. Again, similar to what the author said, but a from the other side, everyone wants to say "Oh, XX% of sex workers were abused as children," when no one has ever bothered to ask how many female lawyers, doctors, hair dressers, school teachers, or CEOs were abused. Frankly, I think that's bullshit to ask it about us but not them. And yes, there are male sex workers as well, but I will admit I don't know where to begin that discussion.

3) Feminism will have "taken off" when it's no longer a question for anyone but me and my doctor whether or not I take birth control or have an abortion. For as long as those two things are up to Hobby Lobby and Rick Perry's sister, Feminism has definitely not "taken off."

 

[eclipse76]

1) & 2)

You asked for not feminists sex workers, here's two. You can't apply the "dictionary definition" to people who refuse it. Most anti-feminists I've heard about are actually staunch believers in women's rights, because none of them is thinking about the dictionary definition when you ask them about their beliefs, but the actual actions and words undertaken by the people who define themselves as part of the movement.

3) Feminism will have "taken off" when it's no longer a question for anyone but me and my doctor whether or not I take birth control or have an abortion. For as long as those two things are up to Hobby Lobby and Rick Perry's sister, Feminism has definitely not "taken off."

Your country has still a strong religious presence, but you can't deny that feminism has been the leading voice in most medias, art, and politics. N.O.W. has been influential in many policies these past decades.

 

[Elsalil_Stiller]

1) & 2)

You asked for not feminists sex workers, here's two. You can't apply the "dictionary definition" to people who refuse it. Most anti-feminists I've heard about are actually staunch believers in women's rights, because none of them is thinking about the dictionary definition when you ask them about their beliefs, but the actual actions and words undertaken by the people who define themselves as part of the movement.

3) Feminism will have "taken off" when it's no longer a question for anyone but me and my doctor whether or not I take birth control or have an abortion. For as long as those two things are up to Hobby Lobby and Rick Perry's sister, Feminism has definitely not "taken off."

Your country has still a strong religious presence, but you can't deny that feminism has been the leading voice in most medias, art, and politics. N.O.W. has been influential in many policies these past decades.

What I said (yet did not ask for if we want to play along with words and specific meanings) was that I, personally, had not met any non-feminist sex workers, but I was new here, and the implication was that I may have not yet met them as I have not been here for very long. I grew up in the Lesbian Feminist Capital of the World where every other Volvo and Subaru has some sort of Feminist bumper sticker that actually uses the word "Femini*" in the positive, and the sex workers I met there were obviously part of the same milieu, so we were simply all feminist sex workers. I now see there are these strange creatures who do not identify as feminists. I shall track their movements and study their behavior.

Seriously, I know SO MANY dominatrices and call girls with that fist in the woman symbol thing tattooed on them and we've been at rallies together. Moving on.

The idea of "can you be the walking definition of a thing yet not actually be that thing?" is an ongoing debate. Right now we're seeing a lot of it in the atheist community, as some people who admit they don't believe in any gods are saying they are not, actually, atheists (and they state it with enough fact behind it that "agnostic" would not be an appropriate label for themselves, either). So what are we to do?

Frankly, I'm so wrapped up in my own world I don't give a real shit about what people want to call themselves so long as we are all working toward a more enlightened future. It's fun to debate semantics and worry about defining ourselves as best we can, but I defy a lot of logic myself, and it would cause me way too much stress to worry about it. I do, however, consider myself a sex-positive feminist. I hate Andrea Dwarkin, but I am anti-revenge porn. I love guns, but we should legalize marijuana. I hate patriarchy, but believe we should legalize polygamy (it would allow for polyandry as well, so hellz yes). I can't call myself a liberal, but I'm definitely not a conservative, and I'm all for free health care, but I love the freedom to live as I please, so I guess I'm not a libertarian.

In the end, I'm a Kris Kristofferson song.

 

[Ambers Troll]

...if you're someone who believes in equality for men and women, then, by definition, you're a feminist.

I would take issue with this point, for a few reasons. The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. It restricts and pollutes the freedom of women when they have men beginning to dictate what forms of power inequities exist.
Mens and womens issues are completely diifferent. Men labelling themself as feminist I feel are disempowered and scared of women. Many risk doing more harm than good by increasing inequality between men and women. What they should be doing is focussing on mens issues, talk with any feminist friends to encourage them to find a way for women to change for their own benefit.
When it comes to equality we can only share what concerns us. Men owe the feminist movement a big thankyou for showing us the way. And we are doing ok especially with family and income issues (mainly thanks to feminism, but also to men seeing the damage they were doing to themselves).

What is needed next is to stop men dying, getting injured, their sexuality being creepified, and in general being disposable. Feminists can't really talk much on such things, they feel the effect on their husbands brothers friends and sons (and will offer their support), but as a movement will affect little change to any of these mens issues. Men must change our own culture to affect any real change, and women must let us.

 

[SaffronBurke]

The public opinion on feminism, much like the public opinion on religion, has been tarnished by extremists. Most Muslims don't agree with the Taliban. Most Christians are not as extreme in their views as the Westboro Baptist Church. Most feminists do not want women ruling the world, with men serving us. People are afraid to call themselves feminist, because they associate the word with "feminazis" who are actually mysandrists.

Misogyny and antiquated patriarchal views hurt men just as much as women. The goal of feminism is to eliminate these problems. For women to be paid as much as men. For the father to have equal custody consideration, instead of the default being the children going to their mother.

One very important aspect of the feminist movement is doing away with rape culture. Rape culture hurts all genders, at makes it very difficult for victims to come forward about their attacks. Women, because they will be told that they deserved it because of what they were wearing, how much they were drinking, or where they were. Men, because they will be told that it wasn't rape, because, being a man means that you always want sex. Trans people are especially hesitant because there is a terrible amount of transphobia in the justice system, and they will told that they're freaks, and that they deserved their attacks because of that. These reactions are terrible. Any person of any gender identity should be able to say to another, "I was raped," and receive a response of "I'm so sorry that happened to you. Do you want to go to the hospital? The cops? Here, have some tissues," instead of "You deserved it/you wanted it".

 

[zippypinhead]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. It restricts and pollutes the freedom of women when they have men beginning to dictate what forms of power inequities exist.
Mens and womens issues are completely diifferent. Men labelling themself as feminist I feel are disempowered and scared of women. Many risk doing more harm than good by increasing inequality between men and women. What they should be doing is focussing on mens issues, talk with any feminist friends to encourage them to find a way for women to change for their own benefit.
When it comes to equality we can only share what concerns us. Men owe the feminist movement a big thankyou for showing us the way. And we are doing ok especially with family and income issues (mainly thanks to feminism, but also to men seeing the damage they were doing to themselves).

I disagree with this. The source of men's and women's problems is still the same. Being a feminist man acknowledges all of these problems you've outlined:

What is needed next is to stop men dying, getting injured, their sexuality being creepified, and in general being disposable. Feminists can't really talk much on such things, they feel the effect on their husbands brothers friends and sons (and will offer their support), but as a movement will affect little change to any of these mens issues. Men must change our own culture to affect any real change, and women must let us.

It's the same system that keeps men down as keeps women down. That's the problem with so-called "patriarchy" -- it's a system of gender roles that only benefits the incredibly small handful of rich old white men sitting on the very top of the hierarchy. All the rest fall into the traps that these roles are designed to be. It's a fucking war out there, and pitting all these roles against each other keeps everyone from focusing on the source of the problem. Showing a unified front does not weaken the cause on either side. The enemy is still the same. And if you look at women who are fighting to obtain gender equality, and you call them "sister", then suddenly you have freed yourself from worrying about what their agenda is. Their agenda is your agenda, and together, you might be able to actually affect change.

 

[ramblin]

It's comments like this:

One that believes women are people.

that make me feel weird. Do I have to be a "feminist" if I feel this way, too? Isn't this sort of sentiment part of being human? I would say that instead of labeling a person who believes women are people as "feminist", we label those who don't as "assholes."

In some ways I agree. It's a strange word. Joss proposed "genderist" as the gender equivalent to "racist" - that is something similar to "sexist" or "misogynist" - the person that doesn't see women as people. Part of the challenge with the word seems to be that -ism ending which we find in so many anti-egalitarian words.

Genderist. I would like this word to become the new racist. I would like a word that says there was a shameful past before we realized that all people were created equal. And we are past that. And every evolved human being who is intelligent and educated and compassionate is past that. And to say I don't believe that is unacceptable. And Katy Perry won't say, "I'm not a feminist but I like strong women," she'll say, "I'm not a genderist but sometimes I like to dress up pretty." And that'll be fine.

By this approach some "radical feminists" would in fact be "genderists", seeing men as less than people, just as an unfortunate number of men still hold genderist beliefs in the other direction.

Also, by the dictionary definition of feminism ("the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism) - which is the one I grew up with before it got so confused - saying that only women can be feminists is tantamount to accepting that men will always see women as less than people, which to me is completely batshit crazy.

 

[Rose]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. .

Excuse me, but men can be well qualified to give information about breastfeeding. In fact, my first and most helpful lactation consultant was a man. He had better bedside manners than the women lactation consultants who helped me and of all the 6 consultants I saw, he was the only one who could actually figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Being a man does not render a doctor incapable of doing his job, same with gynecology. :naughty:

 

[KatVonnegut]

The public opinion on feminism, much like the public opinion on religion, has been tarnished by extremists. Most Muslims don't agree with the Taliban. Most Christians are not as extreme in their views as the Westboro Baptist Church. Most feminists do not want women ruling the world, with men serving us. People are afraid to call themselves feminist, because they associate the word with "feminazis" who are actually mysandrists.

Misogyny and antiquated patriarchal views hurt men just as much as women. The goal of feminism is to eliminate these problems. For women to be paid as much as men. For the father to have equal custody consideration, instead of the default being the children going to their mother.

One very important aspect of the feminist movement is doing away with rape culture. Rape culture hurts all genders, at makes it very difficult for victims to come forward about their attacks. Women, because they will be told that they deserved it because of what they were wearing, how much they were drinking, or where they were. Men, because they will be told that it wasn't rape, because, being a man means that you always want sex. Trans people are especially hesitant because there is a terrible amount of transphobia in the justice system, and they will told that they're freaks, and that they deserved their attacks because of that. These reactions are terrible. Any person of any gender identity should be able to say to another, "I was raped," and receive a response of "I'm so sorry that happened to you. Do you want to go to the hospital? The cops? Here, have some tissues," instead of "You deserved it/you wanted it".

Basically all of this.
Extremists tarnish the reputation of even the most well meaning and beautiful movements.
I call myself a feminist, because I believe in building other women up and standing alongside them. I believe in equality, but also not being blind. Accepting the differences between men and women but still acknowleding that both genders deserve the same degree of respect, rights, oppurtunity, etc.
But sometimes I'm hesitant to use the word feminist just the same way someone might be afraid to admit of being muslim faith in the US - extremism adds stigma and fear of a thing.
Someone also said feminism is different to each person, which is so true. Someone who says they aren't a feminist might actually be a feminist in terms of what I consider feminism to be, or someone who claims to be one might not be what someone else would consider a feminist etc etc.
Feminism to me = women accepting and loving themselves and realizing they deserve to be treated with the respect they feel they deserve. Also treating other women (AND MEN) with that same respect and living a happy merry little life under the umbrella of equality and mutual respect.

PS: Is 4 times too many times to use the word respect? ... now 5. :shhh:

 

[WizofAus]

I'll just leave this here :-D

 

[Ambers Troll]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. .

Excuse me, but men can be well qualified to give information about breastfeeding. In fact, my first and most helpful lactation consultant was a man. He had better bedside manners than the women lactation consultants who helped me and of all the 6 consultants I saw, he was the only one who could actually figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Being a man does not render a doctor incapable of doing his job, same with gynecology. :naughty:

I was not talking of the anatomy of breast feeding, getting the whole areola inside the child's mouth. I was speaking of such things as breast feeding in public. Men know nothing of how this feels.... nothing at all and never will.

Let me put it this way for women.... how does it feel to have testicles, how does it feel wearing boxer shorts to say briefs? Men can answer easiliy. Now imagine a women telling a man which is better and why.... this is my point. She may answer correctly, she may know the anatomy of testicles, but is her decision the right one for men ?

 

[Rose]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. .

Excuse me, but men can be well qualified to give information about breastfeeding. In fact, my first and most helpful lactation consultant was a man. He had better bedside manners than the women lactation consultants who helped me and of all the 6 consultants I saw, he was the only one who could actually figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Being a man does not render a doctor incapable of doing his job, same with gynecology. :naughty:

I was not talking of the anatomy of breast feeding, getting the whole areola inside the child's mouth. I was speaking of such things as breast feeding in public. Men know nothing of how this feels.... nothing at all and never will.

Let me put it this way for women.... how does it feel to have testicles, how does it feel wearing boxer shorts to say briefs? Men can answer easiliy. Now imagine a women telling a man which is better and why.... this is my point. She may answer correctly, she may know the anatomy of testicles, but is her decision the right one for men ?

I still believe you're wrong. Have you breastfed or been with a partner who has? If not, then you really can't answer anything about breastfeeding.

Both my father and partner went out in public with me when I was nursing. I can assure you they felt the strain just as much as I did, not physically, but they were the ones who got to scout out the location and deal with any naysayers while I was completely focused on the kid. I'd absolutely say they had it much harder than I did because they were accomplices and not the ones involved in the action itself. Unless you've gone through any sort of breastfeeding relationship, you may want to just hush before you dig your hole any deeper.

Also, it's not nearly as simple as areola and mouth getting attached. Hah! If only!

 

[Ambers Troll]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. .

Excuse me, but men can be well qualified to give information about breastfeeding. In fact, my first and most helpful lactation consultant was a man. He had better bedside manners than the women lactation consultants who helped me and of all the 6 consultants I saw, he was the only one who could actually figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Being a man does not render a doctor incapable of doing his job, same with gynecology. :naughty:

I was not talking of the anatomy of breast feeding, getting the whole areola inside the child's mouth. I was speaking of such things as breast feeding in public. Men know nothing of how this feels.... nothing at all and never will.

Let me put it this way for women.... how does it feel to have testicles, how does it feel wearing boxer shorts to say briefs? Men can answer easiliy. Now imagine a women telling a man which is better and why.... this is my point. She may answer correctly, she may know the anatomy of testicles, but is her decision the right one for men ?

I still believe you're wrong. Have you breastfed or been with a partner who has? If not, then you really can't answer anything about breastfeeding.

Both my father and partner went out in public with me when I was nursing. I can assure you they felt the strain just as much as I did, not physically, but they were the ones who got to scout out the location and deal with any naysayers while I was completely focused on the kid. I'd absolutely say they had it much harder than I did because they were accomplices and not the ones involved in the action itself. Unless you've gone through any sort of breastfeeding relationship, you may want to just hush before you dig your hole any deeper.

Also, it's not nearly as simple as areola and mouth getting attached. Hah! If only!

Thanks for proving my point, so it is completley different for men? Do you know why it was harder for them?... I do, let's see if you do, and it is nothing to do with accomplices.

You might want to describe why boxers are better than briefs too.... or the other way .

 

[Rose]

:roll:

 

[Elsalil_Stiller]

The main one being that the influence of men within the movement is as unhelpful to women as getting advice from men about breastfeeding. .

Excuse me, but men can be well qualified to give information about breastfeeding. In fact, my first and most helpful lactation consultant was a man. He had better bedside manners than the women lactation consultants who helped me and of all the 6 consultants I saw, he was the only one who could actually figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Being a man does not render a doctor incapable of doing his job, same with gynecology. :naughty:

I was not talking of the anatomy of breast feeding, getting the whole areola inside the child's mouth. I was speaking of such things as breast feeding in public. Men know nothing of how this feels.... nothing at all and never will.

Let me put it this way for women.... how does it feel to have testicles, how does it feel wearing boxer shorts to say briefs? Men can answer easiliy. Now imagine a women telling a man which is better and why.... this is my point. She may answer correctly, she may know the anatomy of testicles, but is her decision the right one for men ?

I still believe you're wrong. Have you breastfed or been with a partner who has? If not, then you really can't answer anything about breastfeeding.

Both my father and partner went out in public with me when I was nursing. I can assure you they felt the strain just as much as I did, not physically, but they were the ones who got to scout out the location and deal with any naysayers while I was completely focused on the kid. I'd absolutely say they had it much harder than I did because they were accomplices and not the ones involved in the action itself. Unless you've gone through any sort of breastfeeding relationship, you may want to just hush before you dig your hole any deeper.

Also, it's not nearly as simple as areola and mouth getting attached. Hah! If only!

Thanks for proving my point, so it is completley different for men? Do you know why it was harder for them?... I do, let's see if you do, and it is nothing to do with accomplices.

You might want to describe why boxers are better than briefs too.... or the other way .

Even men have differing opinions on boxers vs. briefs. Your point, if there were one, would be moot.

 

[GoddessElysia]

An important aspect of feminism to me is building support and solidarity between women!! Strong and successful women are good for women, men, and everybody else too.