What type of feminist are you?

[Red7227]

It's comments like this:

One that believes women are people.

that make me feel weird. Do I have to be a "feminist" if I feel this way, too? Isn't this sort of sentiment part of being human? I would say that instead of labeling a person who believes women are people as "feminist", we label those who don't as "assholes."

About 35 years ago in Victoria Australia, the law was changed to allow women to accuse their husbands of rape. This was because the current (at the time) marriage certificate listed the the wife as chattel. Legally it was just about impossible to get a conviction due to the wording. About the same time I was chased down the street by some drunks in front of a pub for wearing a white ribbon. to me feminism is making the point that things are not the way they should be. Its small "f" feminisim which is not popular with the boys of the generation that think that they have rights when it comes to women. Its not really about equality so much as reversing perceptions.

 

[RandomGuppy]

The funny thing is that I realize that patriarchy still exists and I exploit the fuck out of it. I've been in the sex industry for over a decade, knowing full well that I won't get paid equally for equal work that a man could do (office stuff, I guess), but my vagina is a goldmine, and I may as well use it while it's still a taboo secret thing.

For me the question is if this is due to patriarchy or biology.

 

[EasyA]

I'm a feminist oh wait I'm a guy - But Idgaf either lol

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

The funny thing is that I realize that patriarchy still exists and I exploit the fuck out of it. I've been in the sex industry for over a decade, knowing full well that I won't get paid equally for equal work that a man could do (office stuff, I guess), but my vagina is a goldmine, and I may as well use it while it's still a taboo secret thing.

For me the question is if this is due to patriarchy or biology.

That is a very valid question. My current theory is that patriarchy is based off of biology. Originally women were the stay-at-home-gather-veggies etc. type and men were hunter-gatherers purely because of strength differences between the sexes. Since then sex has been heavily tied into gender roles which is skewed in today's society because we no longer necessarily need the strongest to go out and hunt or the biologically less strong to gather and garden-tend for our survival. As for tying the sex industry into things...that is a whole huge complicated mess. But my thoughts on it summarized are biology is a basis for patriarchy, patriarchy oppresses female sexuality because it's a threat and thus gives it some kind of weird power because it's been tabooized (I think I just made up a word. lol)...which is why I think the sex industry is heavily focused on the female counterpart, because the sex industry is one of the few where a woman has immediate higher earning potential than men, and also it is ingrained within us since birth to just understand that men are more sexually driven and also more socially acceptable to be perverts. (I call bullshit on that though, because who says women aren't naturally just as equally likely to buy sex/sexual service/watch porn/etc.)

Maybe I am biased because I am potentially more perverted than the average female? But I definitely wonder the statistics on that as well if they weren't so skewed. Example, what exactly are/would be the percentages of female sex service purchasers compared to that of men if the social stigma were removed?

Edit: EasyA, I have heard other women bash men for claiming to be feminist because you're male, but I disagree with that! I think regardless of your sex or gender, you can identify with being a feminist so long as you agree with the idea that genders should be equal! But if you don't really care then that actually kind of hurts my feelings on behalf of my gender. But whatever, you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[MintyFlowers]

This is very complicated for me to answer, but I'll try my best. I don't know what movement I fall under, I guess interdisciplinary (I don't think that's specifically a movement but I don't have a name for which ever one happens to be most encompassing)? Clearly, I'm not a Sex Worker Exclusive Radical Feminist (SWERF) at all; I think these types of women do more harm than good, and I want to say that to a lot of radicalfems, however that's because of my personal experience. I could have misunderstood the movement.
Men, -all- of them, can be feminists as long as you believe in "equality/justice" for all, you're part of the movement if you wish to identify as such. Sure, cis-men may never fully understand/experience/empathize the pain child birth, or periods, or other common female functions, however, anyone who wants to be an ally and truly believes in the movement is welcome to take arms. Please don't take that as me excluding/disregarding knowledge that men may have, but it's sort of like, you can know the theory of surfing, and how it works logically, and physically, but you don't really know the... "essence" of surfing until you do it?

Feminism needs to, and should incorporate issues such as race, gender (Male, Female, anything in between, and nonbinary), religion (we should be opposed to crap like Sharia law, but respect that some Muslim women want to wear coverings), birth control, abortion, and domestic violence (for ALL people), rape (for ALL PEOPLE).

While there are some specific groups that target racism, I think that feminists need to be allied with those groups as well.

*crawls back under rock*

 

[RandomGuppy]

That is a very valid question.

Thanks. It's good to get finally off my chest and not find it to be not instantly deemed a stupid question.

My current theory is that patriarchy is based off of biology. Originally women were the stay-at-home-gather-veggies etc. type and men were hunter-gatherers purely because of strength differences between the sexes. Since then sex has been heavily tied into gender roles which is skewed in today's society because we no longer necessarily need the strongest to go out and hunt or the biologically less strong to gather and garden-tend for our survival.

That's a possibility. Though the most popular theory is that it started with agriculture, which translated into land inheritance which then translated into controlling women's sexuality to ensure the heir was genetically belonging to the father. I'm assuming what I'm saying is a gross oversimplification of the theory as a whole but I'm pretty sure that may suffice as the nutshell version.

As for tying the sex industry into things...that is a whole huge complicated mess. But my thoughts on it summarized are biology is a basis for patriarchy, patriarchy oppresses female sexuality because it's a threat and thus gives it some kind of weird power

Interesting how you use the word 'power' isn't it? There are many old school 2nd wave feminists (and still quite a lot of modern feminists) who see the sex industry as benefitting men at the expense of women (I'm guessing they're not talking about financially :? ) but it's obviously is not seen that way by a lot of women. Again I'll demonstrate a point of view of a woman in the sex industry:



I can't help agree with her in a way. SHE uses it to deny patriarchy exists. However to me I'm uncertain whether this is true as I don't think it's decided whether this phenomenon is due to biology or culture. I don't necessarily see it as a refutation of patriarchy, just that if patriarchy exists than that is a result of how can backfire on men and occasionally benefit (some) women.

because it's been tabooized (I think I just made up a word. lol)...which is why I think the sex industry is heavily focused on the female counterpart, because the sex industry is one of the few where a woman has immediate higher earning potential than men,

I'm not what sure what you're saying the focus is? Focus by people fighting against the sex industry??

and also it is ingrained within us since birth to just understand that men are more sexually driven and also more socially acceptable to be perverts. (I call bullshit on that though, because who says women aren't naturally just as equally likely to buy sex/sexual service/watch porn/etc.)

Who says? I'm not sure. At the end of the day I say it's up to women, though I admit I don't know what it's like to live in a culture that implicitly assumes women's natural chaste nature. One thing that I found interesting that was pointed out by my current partner (who identifies as a RadFem btw) said is that when being taught sex education, when teaching that masturbation was ok, it was always the BOYS who were told this! The educators acted like female masturbation didn't exist! I was embarrassed to find I never thought of that!

Maybe I am biased because I am potentially more perverted than the average female?

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. I admit it can be hard to tell in a climate where women themselves can be some of the worst misogynists and slut-shamers. But slowly women like yourself are slowly coming out of the woodwork as our culture slowly relaxes its expectations of how women (and men) should be. So it will be interesting to see how things turn out as they progress.

But I definitely wonder the statistics on that as well if they weren't so skewed. Example, what exactly are/would be the percentages of female sex service purchasers compared to that of men if the social stigma were removed?

Well in fact, the purchase of sexual services by women IS becoming a little more common than it was once was (or maybe it's more acknowledged??)

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/the-bus ... 31hjs.html

^ That article may be an interesting read for you. You will notice however, that generally women will want something with a more intimate and emotional experience to it, rather than just sex, which again begs the question as to whether that's due to biology or culture.

Edit: EasyA, I have heard other women bash men for claiming to be feminist because you're male, but I disagree with that! I think regardless of your sex or gender, you can identify with being a feminist so long as you agree with the idea that genders should be equal! But if you don't really care then that actually kind of hurts my feelings on behalf of my gender. But whatever, you are entitled to your own opinion.

I know that was directed at EasyA, but it's one of the reasons I prefer to call myself a feminist supporter rather than a feminist. Some feminists just wouldn't want me associated with it, which is fine. I don't need to be PART of a group or moevement to support it. I agree with it and all I have to do is work toward a more equitable society for all.

Plus I don't call myself one because even though I agree with it, I find too many of the loudest voices the ones I disagree with most, and the least well known ones I AGREE with the most (that SUCKS).

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm the kind that wears baggy clothes, likes women and hates men...

That's the current stereotype right?

I'd call myself a feminist because I believe strongly that women and men should be treated with equal respect and should have equal opportunities. I do understand that sometimes this can be difficult, many men act in a way that doesn't really bring on instant respect, as do many women. I just don't think that anyone should pigeon hole another person because of another's actions.

The feminist movement is why women today are able to do the things they can. If you would rather be back in a time where you weren't allowed any say, were treated as a lesser being and pretty much as property in many situations then yeah, sure, you're not a feminist. I think that anyone who likes things how they are and wouldn't want to go back to that has feminist beliefs and supports the feminist movement by default.

Feminism is no more about bringing on man hating and aggressive behaviour than religion is about blowing people up and killing people. Yes there are people who will use a word to mask their own agendas but that doesn't mean that it changes the meaning of that word or devalues any of the good that has been done by a cause.

 

[JickyJuly]

I am the kind of feminist that hopes feminism becomes obsolete in the future. I know that feminism needs me and needs all of us. I'm pro-dudes (as a whole), pro-sex and anti-extremist. I think the problem with the feminist extremists is that they DON'T want feminism to become obsolete. They need it. Their identity becomes wrapped up in it and requires that it be an exclusive club for only women like themselves. Selfish. To change the way things are, feminism needs to be anything but exclusive. Men needs feminism. Women need feminism. Am I a hippy dippy feminist? Hehehe.

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

I can't help agree with her in a way. SHE uses it to deny patriarchy exists. However to me I'm uncertain whether this is true as I don't think it's decided whether this phenomenon is due to biology or culture. I don't necessarily see it as a refutation of patriarchy, just that if patriarchy exists than that is a result of how can backfire on men and occasionally benefit (some) women.

I don't agree with the part of her denying that patriarchy exists, because it absolutely does. As for the rest of your response, I completely agree. You put the words right in my mouth. (I am not exactly the best at connecting dots completely unless I sit for hours and try to write a well thought out paper).

because it's been tabooized (I think I just made up a word. lol)...which is why I think the sex industry is heavily focused on the female counterpart, because the sex industry is one of the few where a woman has immediate higher earning potential than men,

I'm not what sure what you're saying the focus is? Focus by people fighting against the sex industry??

Correct again, the focus there was the anti-porn/sex movement that government and also other institutions (academia and also religion off the top of my head mainly) are fighting against.

and also it is ingrained within us since birth to just understand that men are more sexually driven and also more socially acceptable to be perverts. (I call bullshit on that though, because who says women aren't naturally just as equally likely to buy sex/sexual service/watch porn/etc.)

Who says? I'm not sure. At the end of the day I say it's up to women, though I admit I don't know what it's like to live in a culture that implicitly assumes women's natural chaste nature. One thing that I found interesting that was pointed out by my current partner (who identifies as a RadFem btw) said is that when being taught sex education, when teaching that masturbation was ok, it was always the BOYS who were told this! The educators acted like female masturbation didn't exist! I was embarrassed to find I never thought of that!

Bolded for main point here. I am so glad that some men can point this out in the differentiation of treatment of men and women especially when it comes to anything sex related. This further validates the existence of patriarchal society and the foundations of it (not you particularly, but the focus of attention in classrooms towards male). As for your comment previously to that statement, I can't pull up the full sources for it but from my education which heavily focuses on chemicals and their overall affects of behavior, it's not a secret or out of this world knowledge for people to know that testosterone causes humans to behave and think a different way than someone with lower concentrations of it. Testosterone basically makes you more hyper sex-focused and aggressive.

Maybe I am biased because I am potentially more perverted than the average female?

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. I admit it can be hard to tell in a climate where women themselves can be some of the worst misogynists and slut-shamers. But slowly women like yourself are slowly coming out of the woodwork as our culture slowly relaxes its expectations of how women (and men) should be. So it will be interesting to see how things turn out as they progress.

But I definitely wonder the statistics on that as well if they weren't so skewed. Example, what exactly are/would be the percentages of female sex service purchasers compared to that of men if the social stigma were removed?

Well in fact, the purchase of sexual services by women IS becoming a little more common than it was once was (or maybe it's more acknowledged??)

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/the-bus ... 31hjs.html

^ That article may be an interesting read for you. You will notice however, that generally women will want something with a more intimate and emotional experience to it, rather than just sex, which again begs the question as to whether that's due to biology or culture.

I do believe that women are (nearly) just as much sexual beings as men. I think the only difference is now with the help of previous and future feminist movements women will start to become more open and honest about their sexual consumption and desires. To answer your question, which is basically the same answer I personally currently adhere to is, I think it all starts with biology. But culture has much part to play in it as well (hence, the skewed statistics of women not claiming their consumption of sex or anything sex related). It might be a cop out answer but I really do believe in nature vs. nurture, except more so of nature COMBINED with nature.

Edit: EasyA, I have heard other women bash men for claiming to be feminist because you're male, but I disagree with that! I think regardless of your sex or gender, you can identify with being a feminist so long as you agree with the idea that genders should be equal! But if you don't really care then that actually kind of hurts my feelings on behalf of my gender. But whatever, you are entitled to your own opinion.

I know that was directed at EasyA, but it's one of the reasons I prefer to call myself a feminist supporter rather than a feminist. Some feminists just wouldn't want me associated with it, which is fine. I don't need to be PART of a group or moevement to support it. I agree with it and all I have to do is work toward a more equitable society for all.

Plus I don't call myself one because even though I agree with it, I find too many of the loudest voices the ones I disagree with most, and the least well known ones I AGREE with the most (that SUCKS).

I don't think it sucks that you don't agree with extreme ideologies. I think you are a critical thinker and whether you identify yourself as a feminist or not, (it's all semantics,) the important thing is you support the cause and have good intentions for all genders. I think that is the main cause of feminism (or at least, my, version of feminism, which is synonymous with equality and not exclusive to just the female gender, or even any genders at all, but all human beings.)


Side thought not aimed at anyone directly: I feel like a lot of people hear the word feminist now have a tarnished idea or taste for it because of extremists. It would kind of be the same as people assuming when they see "Black Lives Matter!" and having a bad taste for it in assuming that the people that are part of the movement claiming "ONLY black lives matter!" I don't think that's what MOST feminists are saying, that ONLY feminists and females matter, so it kind of hurts my feelings when people bash feminism based off of stereotypes.

Oy sorry if this is all jumbled, I am quite wine drunk right now since it is one of my nights off and I thoroughly enjoy this discussion.

 

[SenorBanana1]

I'm the sort of feminist that doesn't really identify with feminism as a label, mainly because I don't like some of the implications associated with it, specifically the notion that society as it is is to blame for sexism. I believe solely and strongly in equality in general, but as we've come an incredibly long way in developed society, I feel that most of the blame lies with those too ignorant to "change their ways," per se, developed society actually tending to push gender equality and looking down upon those that don't. That being said, sexism is an absolutely disgusting thing, and I look down upon it as much as anyone, as I do racism and homophobia, but unlike the latter two, it doesn't seem to be as prominent of an issue to me in modern society.

Essentially, it seems to me that most reasonably intelligent people are technically "feminists," but some choose not to identify as such due to the reasons above.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

That being said, sexism is an absolutely disgusting thing, and I look down upon it as much as anyone, as I do racism and homophobia, but unlike the latter two, it doesn't seem to be as prominent of an issue to me in modern society

It's funny because while people have recognised that being obviously homophobic and especially racist is not acceptable people still very casually make sexist comments. It actually happens all the time, people just don't realise it. I notice it because I don't enjoy people making casual comments about how I'm not as good as them because I'm female, but the thing is, the guys who make these comments don't even think of it, it's part of culture, they've heard this stuff being said and don't think anything of it.

I don't like it when feminists make out their world is one full of fear and sexual exploitation. It's not. On an average day when I leave my house most men might have a quick glance at me, maybe even smile but nothing more than that. That's not anything bad, I look at men too, it's ok. Depending on where I am and how long I am outside for I'll get a few lingering looks. I get approached or commented on maybe once every two times I go out (so long as the place I go isn't a bar and then I get approached a lot more). I am sure that there are a lot more looks than I notice as I actively try to ignore stares I get. I have in my lifetime suffered from a lot at the hands of men and have watched it happening to women I care about so yes it is definitely still an issue, though I am not sure if that's so much to do with sexism and more to do with educating men from a younger age not to do these things and having more sentencing and counselling for those who do.

When spending time with male friends on the other hand, whoever the friends are I will come across frequent comments that are against my gender, and I choose some of the least sexist men to spend time with, it's a culture thing, they've heard it from others and repeat.

I had a discussion with my ex boyfriend where he was under the impression that men tended to be the head of the household and make the decisions simply because they're male. I have met many young men who are under this impression that somehow they'll be put in charge just because they have a penis. I think in many situations this is just a misconception, people see the man looking dominant on the outside but is his wife just appeasing him in public or does he really make all the decisions? Does he actually care enough? I think many women in the past and present have just allowed their husbands to put their big boots on and stomp around every now and then to let him feel in control. Personally I have no interest in appeasing a man or having my decisions made for me, I want it to be the norm that couples make decisions together as a team without any fronts. The only couples I know where it seems like the man does make the decisions have actually been in abusive relationships, maybe that's not all but it's my experience that the reason the woman backs down in this day and age is because she doesn't feel it's worth the fight.

We have come a long long way in many cultures but there is still a long way to go. No women are not oppressed in the same way that they used to be in most western countries but we still aren't completely equal. Honestly I wonder if we ever truly will be when there are still countries that oppress women in such harsh ways. I think the saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is pretty accurate in this situation, all we can really do is wait for the influence of older generations to die out and teach the younger generations equality. Each generation will be a step further forward, so yes it is worth the fight but it cannot change over night. I hope that when I am old I will have grandchildren who never even have to think about equality as it'll be a way of life.

I think a lot of feminists need to realise that it isn't about fighting, it's about teaching. You cannot force new opinions into someone's head, you can only teach and hope that they learn.

 

[SenorBanana1]

I actually agree with the vast majority of what you said; I moreso just look at it from the perspective of it getting gradually better as it is, each new generation becoming increasingly less bigoted than the former, rather than our culture itself being flawed.

I don't like it when feminists make out their world is one full of fear and sexual exploitation. It's not. On an average day when I leave my house most men might have a quick glance at me, maybe even smile but nothing more than that. That's not anything bad, I look at men too, it's ok. Depending on where I am and how long I am outside for I'll get a few lingering looks. I get approached or commented on maybe once every two times I go out (so long as the place I go isn't a bar and then I get approached a lot more).

Ye, this is mainly what I was referring to in my post, the exaggeration of these sorts of issues. That's not to say they don't exist, they definitely do, but I don't think they're as prominent as some make them out to be.

On a side note, I realize I can't have the same firsthand experience with this as a woman, since I'm not one (and thus found what you said very interesting), and almost feel bad talking about these sorts of issues, but, hey, it's important and worth thinking about no matter who you are.

I might type up a more detailed post on here later, but I'm quite tired at the moment.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Ye, this is mainly what I was referring to in my post, the exaggeration of these sorts of issues. That's not to say they don't exist, they definitely do, but I don't think they're as prominent as some make them out to be.

I think what's tricky is once you have been raped, sexually harassed, pressured, beaten, sexualised without consent, followed, stalked or anything else similar it stays very fresh in your mind. Just the fear of it stays fresh in your mind even if you haven't suffered it.
The most casual forms like being catcalled, commented on, called derogatory names and generally having your skills diminished for being a woman also stay very fresh. It does not happen every day. Women do not walk around every day life being consistently harassed, but we do get harassed, and if you're not being harassed one day a woman near you probably will be. Obviously in cities these issues tend to be worse.
I find issues like watching television or films and seeing women constantly sexualised hurts my self esteem. I don't mind sexualisation to a point but in such a mass way mostly with women it can grate on you.

So yes it does annoy me when feminists make out it's every day constantly because that's not true and makes the cause seem less real and more like women being fussy when actually the issues are always in the mind. Most days I walk around feeling completely comfortable and happy and come across no issues, but occasionally I get a moment where I have to deal with someone pushing me into having a conversation and generally harassing me that if it were a one off thing would kind of be annoying but as it's happened a lot of times before it's more like "get the fuck away from me". There are 365 days in a year, I think on average if you go by how many times I've been approached in a sexual way that I haven't wanted it would average out to at least once per day since I was 14, that's 10 years, meaning I've been approached in a sexual manner almost 4000 times (at least) in public and I am only 24. I think that's possibly an under evaluation. But you've got to remember that I also tend to make myself look nice when I go out and am apparently very approachable, I know that I get approached a lot more than most of my female friends so the stats for all women would be less.

 

[eclipse76]

I can't pull up the full sources for it but from my education which heavily focuses on chemicals and their overall affects of behavior, it's not a secret or out of this world knowledge for people to know that testosterone causes humans to behave and think a different way than someone with lower concentrations of it. Testosterone basically makes you more hyper sex-focused and aggressive.

There is plenty of research which doesn't support that statement. For ex
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 132241.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 890000032X
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -violence/

 

[Red7227]

I can't pull up the full sources for it but from my education which heavily focuses on chemicals and their overall affects of behavior, it's not a secret or out of this world knowledge for people to know that testosterone causes humans to behave and think a different way than someone with lower concentrations of it. Testosterone basically makes you more hyper sex-focused and aggressive.

There is plenty of research which doesn't support that statement. For ex
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 132241.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 890000032X
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -violence/

Well they don't necessarily disagree, they just dispute the level of behaviour modification. Something makes males more likely to murder and get in brawls that females.

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

I can't pull up the full sources for it but from my education which heavily focuses on chemicals and their overall affects of behavior, it's not a secret or out of this world knowledge for people to know that testosterone causes humans to behave and think a different way than someone with lower concentrations of it. Testosterone basically makes you more hyper sex-focused and aggressive.

There is plenty of research which doesn't support that statement. For ex
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 132241.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 890000032X
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -violence/

Well they don't necessarily disagree, they just dispute the level of behaviour modification. Something makes males more likely to murder and get in brawls that females.

Interesting. Perhaps once again, biology or nurture? I still think it's a mix of the two.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

I'm the kind that thinks everyone should have equal rights. Period. I am definitely not the kind that thinks having a penis makes you to blame for everything. I'd also like to do something sort of parallel to what Joss Whedon does with the word "genderist." My idea of feminism (as I described above) actually is not connected at all with being female (which I am not). I would prefer it to be called something like "equalityist" (equalizer?).

As the above implies, I strongly disagree with the notion that men can't be feminists (even though I'd choose a different word). It was said in an earlier post, rightly, that men need feminism. I would like to add that feminism needs men. If feminism becomes a club that half the population can't join, it's going to be awfully hard to get a big chunk of that half to buy into its ideas. On the other hand, if feminism has a bunch of men involved, it's much harder to resist by making it an "us vs. them" thing because a lot of us are on their side.

Men don't have to know how it feels to be a woman to know that equal rights and equal opportunity are what is fair and reasonable.

By the way, good thread. There are a lot of really good insights in this one.

I have to quote one post because it's just so on target in my opinion (In fact, apparently I inadvertently paraphrased some of it).

I am the kind of feminist that hopes feminism becomes obsolete in the future. I know that feminism needs me and needs all of us. I'm pro-dudes (as a whole), pro-sex and anti-extremist. I think the problem with the feminist extremists is that they DON'T want feminism to become obsolete. They need it. Their identity becomes wrapped up in it and requires that it be an exclusive club for only women like themselves. Selfish. To change the way things are, feminism needs to be anything but exclusive. Men needs feminism. Women need feminism. Am I a hippy dippy feminist? Hehehe.

The idea that feminism should eventually become obsolete is absolutely right. In fact, I think the whole point of feminism in the first place was to get things changed to the point where it was no longer needed. I think, over the years, feminism as well as some other civil rights movements have moved away from just being about eliminating inequalities. The main focus was, I think, to grant equal rights as a matter of law (I think this idea was discussed in a thread several months ago). While in many cases, it would be nice to change people's attitudes too, that can't be legislated, and it's also much less cut and dried than "everyone has the same rights." What the proper attitude is for a particular issue can and will be debated endlessly.