Why I no longer tip - one member's experience

[NyGuy]

Why do you come here bragging about being a freeloader? That is not cool... Basically if everyone had your attitude MFC would go under and there would be no camgirls for you to jerk over Why not tip a few tokens (20?) to say thanks for a show it's not hard. You said you go on MFC only to masturbate then why the hell are you here on ACF? Members and models come here to socialise sorry you won't find any free pics or vids here bb.

Again, did I brag about being a freeloader or attempt to use my experience as a catalyst to discuss the nature of an economic system in which goods are given away for free?

I reiterate, I've probably spent more on MFC than the majority of members on this site and 99% of the MFC population, that's ultimately irrelevant to the point at hand here though. We're trying to assess the sustainability of free shows in terms of models earnings.

 

[sexyvee_x]

My advice to you would be log in as a guest and freeload quietly!

 

[Nordling]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

Please. "Views" don't have minds. When you say someone's views are small minded, you are saying that person is small minded.

This is an entirely different discussion and not something that I think we need to get into, but you're implying that there's no difference between acting and being? So in your mind any woman who is dressed provocatively is a slut and someone who, if raped, deserved it?

I implied nothing of the kind. I don't even know what warped set of mental hurdles you leapt to get to such an inference.

When someone "dresses provocatively," they're "dressing provocatively." How someone dresses has nothing to do with applying a foul word to them, and CERTAINLY doesn't imply that they DESERVE some sort of violent assault because of how they dress.

But, when you say someone's VIEWS are small minded, you are, in essence, saying the PERSON is small minded, simply because a VIEW does not, in and of itself have volition. A VIEW is a description of something going on in someone's mind. And no, one's views to not justify assault either.

 

[AmazingAshlee]

if you are so upset that these are the girls doing well, why dont you put your energy into finding someone who you think deserves it. there are way too many girls on mfc to waste time talking about the ones you DONT like.

 

[NyGuy]

Yes yes. I'm just a small minded twat for thinking you don't have a right to collect services for free. You're looking at MFC like a company that all these women work for. We're independent contractors. We work for ourselves. I, personally, don't do public shows, but I certainly don't feel any other woman who is trying to pay her bills owes me or MFC anything as it pertains to how she runs her room. It's not small minded not to want to loot the shit out of your own city in the midst of chaos just because you can. It's called having some integrity. You're trading your integrity to get off for free instead of just throwing nickels. Nothing you can say and nothing anyone else does or doesn't do will change that.


Did I call you a 'small minded twat'? I merely said it is small minded to think that because you can;t see the person from whom you're taking money, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Your post implies that you would consider it improper to loot your own city but ok to loot the city of another. Think about that for a second. That view invites others to loot your city and leaves you in the exact same position.

Maybe I made a mistake by framing this discussion in the context which I did, I have actually continued to tip, but framed the argument as such to illustrate MFC is essentially an economy of sorts, and it's irrational to expect people to pay for goods where payment if not a requirement of their consumption. Further, to blame the consumer for their consumption is missing the point entirely, the issue is with those who allow goods to be consumed for free.

I added twat for humorous value because this thread is kind of a downer. 1. Saying I wouldn't loot my own city in NO WAY implies that I would loot the city of another. 2. You're confusing goods and services. If you wanna go steal porn, fine. You're a pirate. However, when you sit in a camgirl's room with the attitude that you should be serviced and she should get nothing, you are wrong. 3. Nordling said it best, you're a douche. Not only do you want to sit there and freeload, but you want to come to a forum of camgirls and dudes who play the game correctly and ask us to pat you on the head and say it's okay. Good luck with that, Goober.

Yes, I'm a douche and a goober for trying to stimulate a discussion about economics in terms of camming. :roll:

How do you think I came upon this forum? Perhaps because a model, to whom I've given a substantial amount of money, directed me to it? No, that couldn't be, way to miss the point and instead focus on me being a douche and a goober. :roll:

 

[AllisonWilder]

This is a ridiculous thread. There's no reason why you need to come to a discussion board and boast to members and models alike about your ability to masturbate to our service for free. Whether you are directly asking for a service or not is irrelevant. You're still enjoying a show, getting off to it and walking away. You don't have to tip to a countdown to say thank you after a great show with a small tip. If you're just looking for porn, hit a tube site and let MFC have one less freeloader rationalizing why they don't tip anymore.

Even the models that don't give it away for free suffer from freeloaders. If I were to advertise that I only did privates and group shows the general consensus of members wouldn't suck it up and take me into a paid chat, they'd call me greedy, a token whore or just tell me that they can get it for free elsewhere and leave.

 

[Nordling]

Please learn how to use the quote function.

 

[NyGuy]

Actually you did attack by calling someone small minded, and no the waitress comparison is spot on, they are providing you a service if you want to admit it or not. Freeload all you want but guess what it's a douche move.

Look again, I didn't call anyone small minded. I called her position small minded because, frankly, it was; it failed to account for the unseen victims of an act she intimated was ethically acceptable. Get mad at me all you want, I guess that's what I deserve for trying to have an intelligent conversation about economics and ethics on a discussion board.

Please. "Views" don't have minds. When you say someone's views are small minded, you are saying that person is small minded.

This is an entirely different discussion and not something that I think we need to get into, but you're implying that there's no difference between acting and being? So in your mind any woman who is dressed provocatively is a slut and someone who, if raped, deserved it?

I implied nothing of the kind. I don't even know what warped set of mental hurdles you leapt to get to such an inference.

When someone "dresses provocatively," they're "dressing provocatively." How someone dresses has nothing to do with applying a foul word to them, and CERTAINLY doesn't imply that they DESERVE some sort of violent assault because of how they dress.

But, when you say someone's VIEWS are small minded, you are, in essence, saying the PERSON is small minded, simply because a VIEW does not, in and of itself have volition. A VIEW is a description of something going on in someone's mind. And no, one's views to not justify assault either.

An outfit doesn't have volition either, you failed to make your point. What you accused me of is exactly what you tried to say the slut example wasn't

 

[Nordling]

Nope. Prunes and walnuts.

 

[NyGuy]

if you are so upset that these are the girls doing well, why dont you put your energy into finding someone who you think deserves it. there are way too many girls on mfc to waste time talking about the ones you DONT like.

Show where I said anything even remotely resembling any of that

This is a ridiculous thread. There's no reason why you need to come to a discussion board and boast to members and models alike about your ability to masturbate to our service for free. Whether you are directly asking for a service or not is irrelevant. You're still enjoying a show, getting off to it and walking away. You don't have to tip to a countdown to say thank you after a great show with a small tip. If you're just looking for porn, hit a tube site and let MFC have one less freeloader rationalizing why they don't tip anymore.

Even the models that don't give it away for free suffer from freeloaders. If I were to advertise that I only did privates and group shows the general consensus of members wouldn't suck it up and take me into a paid chat, they'd call me greedy, a token whore or just tell me that they can get it for free elsewhere and leave.

Again, where did I boast?

The whole point of my post was to try and illustrate how free shows are responsible for creating a 'race to the bottom' where members are being disincentivized form tipping for services. It wasn't actually about me at all, google allegory.

 

[JickyJuly]

This guy almost makes hornygods look good. :roll:

 

[Nordling]

This guy almost makes hornygods look good. :roll:

lol What makes you think it isn't him? :lol:

 

[AllisonWilder]

Again, where did I boast?

However, I haven't purchased tokens since June, and the reason for my decline in expenditure has nothing to do with finances.

This sentence, set alone in your original post purely to stand out, screams boasting to me.

The whole point of my post was to try and illustrate how free shows are responsible for creating a 'race to the bottom' where members are being disincentivized form tipping for services.

Maybe you have a point in saying that free shows are a race to the bottom, but it's a moot point. Not every model cares. Not every model wants to run their room that way. Some models thrive on public shows, some thrive on privates and some thrive on groups. Essentially saying that every model should just take privates/groups over shows in public chat isn't what's best for every model.

It wasn't actually about me at all, google allegory.

Actually, it was about you. Your post is titled 'Why I no longer tip - one member's experience.' That in and of itself stands to reason that, in fact, this post is all about you. The fact that you feel that your tipping premium turned non-tipping premium (also known as freeloader, google it, you condescending douche) experience matters in the least baffles me.

 

[DanniShimmers]

Man. Hell of a first post on these forums. You're gonna be popular here... I can tell.

Fine, I'll throw down.

NyGuy, dudes like you are what's wrong with MFC. If everyone behaved like you behave, guess what? No more free shows. And you know what, I don't care how much you've tipped in the past, you know why? Because you're not tipping right now. You're doing worse than not tipping the waitress, you're basically doing a dine n' dash.

I've had to reassess how I handle myself on MFC because almost all my tokens come from groups and privates, you know why? Because freeloaders just stare at my naked butt and don't tip anything, won't play games, won't talk, won't contribute anything to my room. I'm basically not even doing nude in free chat any more, because there's no reason to. Because of freeloaders like you. They're too cheap to even chip in literally 50 cents to complete a nude countdown. They just sit there until my regulars get irritated with the waiting and freeloading and pitch in for a group show - and the freeloaders are left with nothing.

And don't crow like that's a victory - it's not. Freeloaders ruined a good thing, you know why? Because, economics aside, you guys could get a LOT of milk without buying the whole cow - so to speak. You tossed a few dimes in and you got a show, because everybody was chipping in! It was kinda like a Kickstarter for your penis.

But when nobody pays, when NOBODY tips, in the long run it eventually goes back to no public shows, and groups/privates get a lot more expensive. In the long term, this does not benefit you. Members end up paying a whole lot more in the long run as more models get fed up and leave. The sense of entitlement on MFC is amazing, and you are it personified.

A lot of models have migrated over to stricter sites like Streamate for this exact same reason, and freeloaders still manage to be a scourge even THERE. You have no idea how many dudes get pissed off that I won't do Gold Shows because Gold Shows remind me far too much of the freeloading culture on MFC, and how many guys still expect me to flash pussy for free and get furious when I won't do it.

MFC is way more lenient than Streamate and other cam sites, where models are not even allowed to be nude in free chat at all - much less get away with public cumshows. But this is the free market and, I am loathe to say, it will probably police itself - either by models refusing to give stuff away for free any more, or the website going under. And won't that be a sad day for freeloaders like you?

 

[SophieMei]

I agree that to some extent models are to blame for enhancing the freeloading problem by doing free shows but at the same time they are forced into it because of MFC's reputation for being, well, free as the name implies. I'm pretty sure that most models did not join the site hoping to do a show in front of hundreds of viewers who weren't going to pay her. They probably signed up, tried to reserve things for private or group and when they found out that cheap members weren't going to pay for them and tried to haggle them down they really had no other option if they wanted to make any money at all. I agree that public shows may be hurting MFC overall but when a model has bills to pay and the only way she can make money is through public shows she's not going to care about what direction the site is going in, she has her own problems that need to be dealt with at the moment. The fact is that the majority of people are cheap and always try get as much as they can with spending as little as they can and when this is paired with a need to make money a model is pushed to deal with those circumstances the best she can.

The reality is that as long as MFC keeps making just as much or money with the methods that are in place now the public shows are never going to stop, there's just no incentive for them to enforce the "no masturbation in public" rule. If you don't like that a model is giving away things for free, don't patronize them and support a model who will give you what you want. Not all models do public shows. I never do them, I've done one lotion show and have never done a public cum show because I don't like the idea of providing a show for a crowd of people when only a few have paid for it. The important thing is to support models that you like. I'm not saying that you have to tip them just for being online but if you want to see her play with toys, take her to private or start a group and don't wait to the point where she is not making any tokens through these methods so that her only remaining option is to do them in public.

 

[NyGuy]

I agree that to some extent models are to blame for enhancing the freeloading problem by doing free shows but at the same time they are forced into it because of MFC's reputation for being, well, free as the name implies. I'm pretty sure that most models did not join the site hoping to do a show in front of hundreds of viewers who weren't going to pay her. They probably signed up, tried to reserve things for private or group and when they found out that cheap members weren't going to pay for them and tried to haggle them down they really had no other option if they wanted to make any money at all. I agree that public shows may be hurting MFC overall but when a model has bills to pay and the only way she can make money is through public shows she's not going to care about what direction the site is going in, she has her own problems that need to be dealt with at the moment. The fact is that the majority of people are cheap and always try get as much as they can with spending as little as they can and when this is paired with a need to make money a model is pushed to deal with those circumstances the best she can.

The reality is that as long as MFC keeps making just as much or money with the methods that are in place now the public shows are never going to stop, there's just no incentive for them to enforce the "no masturbation in public" rule. If you don't like that a model is giving away things for free, don't patronize them and support a model who will give you what you want. Not all models do public shows. I never do them, I've done one lotion show and have never done a public cum show because I don't like the idea of providing a show for a crowd of people when only a few have paid for it. The important thing is to support models that you like. I'm not saying that you have to tip them just for being online but if you want to see her play with toys, take her to private or start a group and don't wait to the point where she is not making any tokens through these methods so that her only remaining option is to do them in public.

Thank you. OMG I cannot thank you enough, the whole point of my post was to stimulate that realization.

 

[LindseyDoll]

You're overlooking the real reason why someone would tip entirely silly
Members tip because they like the model. If they can see masturbation anywhere else for free, but that model is their friend, they want to see her smile, they tip,

Saying you don't tip because free show exist is very objectifying. Go find a model you like, and talk to her, while she has her clothes on for a while. I think it would be good for you

 

[victor0021]

I agree that to some extent models are to blame for enhancing the freeloading problem by doing free shows but at the same time they are forced into it because of MFC's reputation for being, well, free as the name implies. I'm pretty sure that most models did not join the site hoping to do a show in front of hundreds of viewers who weren't going to pay her. They probably signed up, tried to reserve things for private or group and when they found out that cheap members weren't going to pay for them and tried to haggle them down they really had no other option if they wanted to make any money at all. I agree that public shows may be hurting MFC overall but when a model has bills to pay and the only way she can make money is through public shows she's not going to care about what direction the site is going in, she has her own problems that need to be dealt with at the moment. The fact is that the majority of people are cheap and always try get as much as they can with spending as little as they can and when this is paired with a need to make money a model is pushed to deal with those circumstances the best she can.

The reality is that as long as MFC keeps making just as much or money with the methods that are in place now the public shows are never going to stop, there's just no incentive for them to enforce the "no masturbation in public" rule. If you don't like that a model is giving away things for free, don't patronize them and support a model who will give you what you want. Not all models do public shows. I never do them, I've done one lotion show and have never done a public cum show because I don't like the idea of providing a show for a crowd of people when only a few have paid for it. The important thing is to support models that you like. I'm not saying that you have to tip them just for being online but if you want to see her play with toys, take her to private or start a group and don't wait to the point where she is not making any tokens through these methods so that her only remaining option is to do them in public.

Thank you. OMG I cannot thank you enough, the whole point of my post was to stimulate that realization.

So you came on a website filled with models to tell them something that's been said a hundred times before, and let them know you won't tip them anymore and it's their own fault? Just FYI this is why people think you are a douche, and why you bolded "support the models that you like." when you yourself refuse to do this, that part is beyond me.

 

[AlexLady]

There is no excuse for freeloading; not "but I tipped yesterday" or "I provide entertainment for the model" or worse, "but u lik hanging out with me bb" ... saying you can get a free show elsewhere is more of a logical justification, but if that's all you want why not watch recorded porn?

There are a lot of free sample videos; even full length. These are public by the actual publishers so no one is harmed by having the video out for everyone. Why not watch that instead? Watching live camgirls who give so much of themselves hurts a lady who is doing her best to make a living all on her own.


While I'll never do more than a violin for models who complain about free loaders while they choose to break the rules of a camsite, I still respect them; my point is they know what the risks are. This doesn't change anything though because even if none of us ever showed a tit in free chat there would be freeloaders who jerk off with no other encouragement from our part. Doing less on camera doesn't solve the problem directly, but having something reserved for paid-chat only insures that the model always has something of value to offer.


The only solution is for MFC to enforce the rules, but more importantly, for those rules to be inforced equally.


Remember though; the equal rule enforcement may be why so many models are allowed to break the rules, but the freeloaders are the ones driving models to other sites. Tons of rule-following-MFC-models consider switching to SM or similar sites just because there they know that every pussy is valued.

 

[AedanRayne]

Would you tip a musician if you enjoyed their 2 hour set while hanging out at a club or restaurant? I would certainly hope so since they're putting their heart into their work and taking time out of their day to entertain you. It's called morals, baby. Sure, you're not obligated to tip but giving a model even a small tip is a good gesture to show them that you enjoyed and appreciated their hard work & time.

 

[Nordling]

Sometime last year, I saw something that really impressed me. A popular Colombian model was getting ready to do a public show...only her rule was, NO non tippers allowed. She had well over 50 premiums in her room after her announcement and she then started banning non-tippers. It was amazing, as quickly as she'd pare the room down to 10 or 12 premiums, shitloads of new premiums would storm in, and after being informed, and given time to tip, were also banned. lol She did this five or six times before she was satisfied that she had the group she wanted. She did a magnificent show and everyone tipped.

* yeah, I know this wouldn't work for every model, but still, I was impressed that it worked for her.

 

[NyGuy]

I agree that to some extent models are to blame for enhancing the freeloading problem by doing free shows but at the same time they are forced into it because of MFC's reputation for being, well, free as the name implies. I'm pretty sure that most models did not join the site hoping to do a show in front of hundreds of viewers who weren't going to pay her. They probably signed up, tried to reserve things for private or group and when they found out that cheap members weren't going to pay for them and tried to haggle them down they really had no other option if they wanted to make any money at all. I agree that public shows may be hurting MFC overall but when a model has bills to pay and the only way she can make money is through public shows she's not going to care about what direction the site is going in, she has her own problems that need to be dealt with at the moment. The fact is that the majority of people are cheap and always try get as much as they can with spending as little as they can and when this is paired with a need to make money a model is pushed to deal with those circumstances the best she can.

The reality is that as long as MFC keeps making just as much or money with the methods that are in place now the public shows are never going to stop, there's just no incentive for them to enforce the "no masturbation in public" rule. If you don't like that a model is giving away things for free, don't patronize them and support a model who will give you what you want. Not all models do public shows. I never do them, I've done one lotion show and have never done a public cum show because I don't like the idea of providing a show for a crowd of people when only a few have paid for it. The important thing is to support models that you like. I'm not saying that you have to tip them just for being online but if you want to see her play with toys, take her to private or start a group and don't wait to the point where she is not making any tokens through these methods so that her only remaining option is to do them in public.

Thank you. OMG I cannot thank you enough, the whole point of my post was to stimulate that realization.

So you came on a website filled with models to tell them something that's been said a hundred times before, and let them know you won't tip them anymore and it's their own fault? Just FYI this is why people think you are a douche, and why you bolded "support the models that you like." when you yourself refuse to do this, that part is beyond me.

Well Admittedly I had hoped to have a much more in depth discussion building off that as the backbone but after a couple hours of 'you're a douche', I took the small victory when it appeared. :lol:

 

[Just Me]

Blah blah blah. Where are all these free shows everyone is talking about? There are really models doing shows for nothing? :lol:

For the OP's thesis to be correct, we would have to see some evidence of more public shows going on now than say 2 years ago. The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

I will add my anecdotal evidence though. I have been on MFC for close to 4 years now. Spent a hell of a lot more money than the OP. (Do I get a cookie?) I honestly do not see more shows going on in public than 2 years ago. It is certainly easier to find said shows with the changes to MFC, but more public shows? I do not see it. Granted, more of the top models might be doing public shows but they certainly are not doing them for free.

I do find it interesting that the OP stated he only came MFC to fap but then said later the majority of his tokens went to one model and she is the one that directed him to these forums. So, to point out the obvious, he was not here to just fap and not make friends with the models. He was conversing with at least one model and talking about non sexual matters, or he would not be here.

To the OP: So what changed with this model that received the majority of your time and tokens, that you not longer want to tip the hard working cam models? Your sudden insight to the workings of MFC and economics seems a little out of place.

 

[AllisonWilder]

When you come into a community forum like this one and make your first post one about how you no longer tip and then proceed to place blame for that on models, we're bound to get a little irritated with that.

I'm sure you're not a bad guy, but the way you word things (i.e. using a condescending tone telling someone to google a word) needs a little a lot of work.

 

[SatanJonez]

It is really sad how often I can use this meme.

 

[NyGuy]

When you come into a community forum like this one and make your first post one about how you no longer tip and then proceed to place blame for that on models, we're bound to get a little irritated with that.

I'm sure you're not a bad guy, but the way you word things (i.e. using a condescending tone telling someone to google a word) needs a little a lot of work.

Allison, I actually owe you an apology because that was a snide remark. I made an effort to be respectful of and diplomatic towards everyone but I was getting a little frustrated with everyone calling me a douche for trying to have an intellectual conversation and took that out on you.

I was frustrated as no one seemed to get that the whole first post was a fictional allegory designed to stir the pot a bit and see if we could have an interesting discussion. I think this discussion could've gone a lot of interesting ways and it started to for about 6-8 posts before it turned into a mess.

I do find it interesting that the OP stated he only came MFC to fap but then said later the majority of his tokens went to one model and she is the one that directed him to these forums. So, to point out the obvious, he was not here to just fap and not make friends with the models. He was conversing with at least one model and talking about non sexual matters, or he would not be here.

To the OP: So what changed with this model that received the majority of your time and tokens, that you not longer want to tip the hard working cam models? Your sudden insight to the workings of MFC and economics seems a little out of place.

A bit late, but he got it :lol: .

:hello2:

 

[DanniShimmers]

I was frustrated as no one seemed to get that the whole first post was a fictional allegory designed to stir the pot a bit and see if we could have an interesting discussion. I think this discussion could've gone a lot of interesting ways and it started to for about 6-8 posts before it turned into a mess.

:roll:

 

[Nordling]

"Ma! I did not eat the last two cookies! That was a fictional allegory!"





:roll:




* what's a "non-fictional" allegory?

 

[NyGuy]

"Ma! I did not eat the last two cookies! That was a fictional allegory!"





:roll:




* what's a "non-fictional" allegory?

A story being used to illustrate a larger point where the story is true.

Was that a joke or do you not understand the concept?

 

[Nordling]

"Ma! I did not eat the last two cookies! That was a fictional allegory!"





:roll:




* what's a "non-fictional" allegory?

A story being used to illustrate a larger point where the story is true.

Was that a joke or do you not understand the concept?

Yeah, it was a joke, but it points out that YOU do not understand that ALL allegories are fictional. They may be used to represent something non-fictional, but an allegory or metaphor, by their very structure, have to be fictional.