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Why is there a stigma attached to camming?

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Guess that is a simpler explanation for the stigma, they believe in safety with sex.

Anyone who has seen a pair of sexy 6 inch heels, knows how untrue and boring this is. Sexuality is rarely safe, just like dancing in high heels.
Take this to camming, and the member model relationship makes sense.

One of the things I really like about all models is their risk taking. You must do that to be a model.
 
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So please tell me, why the stigma?

I am not really sure about a stigma but I know there are plenty of people out there that are just not cut out for camming. Some people just either do not like it or would rather pursue other career opportunities that interest them more. There are a lot of people out there (including myself) that love their jobs, and choose to use the camming world as a means of escape, entertainment and fun, I would never want it to be my job though. That isn't because I find anything wrong with it, I wouldn't go to the sites I go to that involve camming if it was not relaxing and entertaining. I also realize it is hard work too (I think a lot of people hold a stigma that camming is lazy work, at least that is what my X got all the time, people telling her she was lazy, get a real job etc models have heard it all before I am sure) so supporting them for me is a big deal if I want the ones I really enjoy to stick around.

I am sure a lot of people out there do hate their jobs, I am not one of those people. I love the cam world too but only as a customer/spectator and would never consider doing it for a living, even if It made more money for me than what I currently do, because I enjoy what I do now, more so than I would ever enjoy camming as a career or even a part time job, I like the interaction with the room, the model but I do not like taking too much attention from the model, I do not even pm models. I am old school in the fact that when I started viewing and supporting models, it was much more laid back and people did not demand so much more from models that they do nowadays. I have seen some very demanding and possessive people member wise, even big tippers and it's really lame for me to watch. I have seen some of my favorite models fall in the ranks and have to add a ton of other things (such as porn) since '09 to get back up in the ranks and sometimes they do not even get back to where they once were, when they were there in the past every month. Hate seeing that happen to any model.

I know times change just like with any job and models have to adapt to the changes just like any other job, but I miss the old days of Eight or nine years ago. It was much more relaxed, sure you had trolls etc and demanding people but (and this is me PERSONALLY) I do not like the porn aspect of cams, how much it has progressed over the years, I am one of those members that if I wanted that, it was a private, I didn't need all the snapchat, the videos etc. I just liked a chill or fun room depending on my mood and a nakey model that was vibrant and had an exciting room. I didn't and do not expect or want anymore than that. Call me crazy. I do see the appeal of it for others do not get me wrong, I quote "get it" it's just not my cup of tea. The job has to be extremely hard to keep up with, all of the demand nowadays and even back in the day, to remain successful.

I have seen models that were top earners for years and then dropped very low (it did take some months for this to occur as times changed) just because they did not want to make porn videos (other models were surpassing them because of their strong porn content.) Which personally, I saw as a loss, that they dropped off the radar and some actually quit after a period of time because they were used to a certain income and were not getting that anymore and were not willing to do the porn videos to get it back. I respect their convictions, it has to be hard to walk away from a good paycheck every pay period due to your personal standards for yourself meaning more to you than the money. You have to respect that.

As far as you making a "weird choice" you are not doing that. You are doing what you choose to do which I applaud anyone that has the "balls" to do what they want. Camming is not a bad idea. I appreciate every model I watch and support. I want an interactive live experience to unwind and I love supporting the models that provide that for me as a service, but (and I apologize for getting off topic) it really gets on my nerves, people (and it keeps getting worse) that want more and more from cam models than just their time and attention, the whole falling in love bullshit, taking to much of their time on and off cam (a lot of the times without proper compensation) and many other examples I will not mention here because this is already a ridiculous wall of text that I wasn't planning on already.

I love what cam models do, they provide a relaxing atmosphere, take away stress and you can fully interact with them without any strings, what is better than that when you want to relax? I can't think of much else besides surfing. (This is all my own personal experience and opinion.)

 
Because being a part of the oldest profession (sexwork) is in societies view is immoral. I have learned over time to let people put their foot in thier mouth, listen for slutshaming or whorephobia and cut those people out like cancer. Those who do not respect what we do don't deserve our wisdom nor our time. I have very few civvy friends because people speak and think afterwards.

I love the doors sexwork opened for me, the growth I've been blessed with. Sex work taught me to love myself, and that i dont have to settle for being stuck in poverty.


People with "morals" don't get that because morals does not always coincide with compassion and mutual respect.
 
Maybe it's because some people view sex as something personal and intimate, and view a willingness to share that with relative strangers as signifying a lack of self-respect, or view the type of objectification that comes with sex work as an attack on one's autonomy.

Personally, as long as everything is healthy, I don't care how people choose to view their own sexuality, or to make their living, but seeing people sniping at each other from either side of the fence makes me want to go live in a cave.

Also, just to mention, there is the theory that people try to keep sex off the market so their own sex becomes more valuable.
 
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Also, just to mention, there is the theory that people try to keep sex off the market so their own sex becomes more valuable.

Which is silly. I mean it's kinda like helicopter/sheltering parenting. Sure it might seem special to the person guarding it, but without outside influences teaching a person new things any part of life can get more than a bit boring.
 
Too late to edit. Also want to state I don't mean say having sex with a ton of people if a person doesn't want to, but simply viewing porn shouldn't equate things being less special once in a relationship. Heck couples who watch porn together are typically in a better relationship anyway!
 
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I would never do porn, there's a strong difference between being a solo cammer and a porn star, the main one being is I don't sleep with people on cam (for now).

there's a difference, but the difference is not whether or not it's porn.

you're doing amateur porn. and you're starring in porn. bravo :)

you're not doing professional porn, you're not a hired star, nor a hired 'cock' for a star to fuck, but you're still doing porn.

even if you prefer to think of it in terms of its business model, which is online prostitution, the byproduct of your business transaction is pornography. :bookworm:
 
You're right in a sense, but let's not pretend sex work is 100% safe either. Stalkers exist with any form of it.

beats being squashed by a forklift ::insert video I saw on facebook last week::
most work isn't 100% safe :p
hell, you might die in the commute alone--better to stay home and cam :pompous:
 
there's a difference, but the difference is not whether or not it's porn.

you're doing amateur porn. and you're starring in porn. bravo :)

you're not doing professional porn, you're not a hired star, nor a hired 'cock' for a star to fuck, but you're still doing porn.

even if you prefer to think of it in terms of its business model, which is online prostitution, the byproduct of your business transaction is pornography. :bookworm:

I can can see your point of view.

The reason I think there's a strong difference between porn and camming is because you're calling the shots on what you do on cam, you're also in control of how what you're doing comes across, porn is heavily edited. In porn you have to do as you're told by a director which I think is huge and is massively different to setting your own boundaries and being the director of your own show, so to speak.

Also in camming, despite the fact that your videos will end up online and in some cases be impossible to remove at the end of the day you are the copyright owner of the materiel.
 
I hope you're a bit of a nerd like me, or this will just seem cuntish...
The reason I think there's a strong difference between porn and camming is because you're calling the shots on what you do on cam
professional pornstars have very detailed contracts they agree to and sign before filming. the star calls the shots. (there's at least a few good interviews with pornstars out there in the podverse)
you're also in control of how what you're doing comes across
the fact that you're the producer and director of your porn no more means you're not a pornstar than being the engineer and producer of your own music means you're not a musician.
porn is heavily edited.
degree of editing isn't a defining feature of pornography, so that's moot.
In porn you have to do as you're told by a director which I think is huge and is massively different to setting your own boundaries
see first comment re first hand accounts of professional pornstars.
Also in camming, despite the fact that your videos will end up online and in some cases be impossible to remove at the end of the day you are the copyright owner of the materiel.
moot again. owning your porn doesn't mean your porn is not porn (i.e., porn is not by definition 'footage I don't own the rights to of me doing sexual things')


I'd hope the verb. sap. would be 'if it's not porn, why do you suppose there's an R+18 restriction on it?' or put another way, 'suppose you got a 12 year old to be a solo cammer ... would that not be child porn, in your mind, since by your definition it's not any kind of porn?'
 
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Also in camming, despite the fact that your videos will end up online and in some cases be impossible to remove at the end of the day you are the copyright owner of the materiel.
depends on the site. *always read the ToS*
 
I hope you're a bit of a nerd like me, or this will just seem cuntish...

professional pornstars have very detailed contracts they agree to and sign before filming. the star calls the shots. (there's at least a few good interviews with pornstars out there in the podverse)

the fact that you're the producer and director of your porn no more means you're not a pornstar than being the engineer and producer of your own music means you're not a musician.

degree of editing isn't a defining feature of pornography, so that's moot.

see first comment re first hand accounts of professional pornstars.

moot again. owning your porn doesn't mean your porn is not porn (i.e., porn is not by definition 'footage I don't own the rights to of me doing sexual things')


I'd hope the verb. sap. would be 'if it's not porn, why do you suppose there's an R+18 restriction on it?' or put another way, 'suppose you got a 12 year old to be a solo cammer ... would that not be child porn, in your mind, since by definition it's not any kind of porn?'

We're disagreeing on a name. Not what it entails, I don't agree that camming is porn and I'd also disagree with pornstars calling the shots.

I watched a very interesting documentary recently about amateur porn and the pornstars are at complete mercy of the directors.

Degree of editing is definitely not a defining feature, being the producer or not is not a defining feature of pornography either!

But there are very big differences between shooting a porn on a porn set and camming, and for the sake of clarifying those points I am referring to one as porn and one as camming.

It would not bother me in the slightest if someone called what I do porn, personally I don't use the word porn to describe it though... but then again that's just my opinion :)
 
Since we are talking about sexual shame...
I don't know how to make peace with two seemingly connected realities:

1. Sexual shame exists and is bad.
2. Sex workers financially benefit from sexual shame.

I don't want sexual shame to exist, but in the same breath, I want to continue earning a substantial living by selling my sexuality. Compared to others, as OP has pointed out, we usually work less hours than others do while still making enough to survive. If sex were not shamed, I can imagine several different situations that might arise. You can speculate that sex might not be a valuable commodity anymore or that the market would be flooded with people willing to sell (Since there would be no societal pressure not to). Moving sexuality into the open would change a lot about the sex work industry. People might not get such a kick out of seeing breasts in porn if they can see them at the local public park. People might not get off so hard to the image of a girl masturbating in her bedroom if the 'naughty' aspect of it is torn away.

Sometimes I get the impression that receiving judgment from mainstream society is the price we pay for having profitable careers. I am able to cam and earn a living because not EVERY girl is willing to take the hit to her reputation. If all 3.5 billion women on Earth sold their sex appeal online, I don't think I'd have a chance in hell of paying my bills anymore. I am not an extremely special specimen. In the greater scheme of things, I am just an average person with average talents. In our society, however, I am a sexually liberated siren who stands out against the backdrop of frigid shrews. A beacon of slutty hope floating in a sea of blue balls.

This so much.

As many camgirls know, camming is pretty win win if you don't mind getting naughty on camera and having your image out there. As has been said, working your own hours, being paid much more for much less, not having to answer to bosses and taking holidays when you like. If this were a vanilla job so many people would be wanting to do it, but if everyone wanted to do this job then the value would go down.

To the OP, you should also bear in mind that while camming is enjoyable for some, even if we take away the "sex work is shameful and dirty" aspect, there are so many girls who just don't want to do it. And that's fair enough, I have no problem with sex work but sometimes I don't want to expose myself on the internet. That's not a "moral" issue, just sometimes you don't want to share your private or intimate moments for financial reward. I know some girls who will happily sleep around and are very open about sex but shy away from the idea of even interacting with people on the internet. I don't know if this is due to social conditioning believing sex is a negative thing or if it's just how people feel about their bodies.

I also don't agree that it's necessarily to do with people believing sex is negative, but that sex and sexuality shouldn't be sold. Sex shouldn't be mixed up with sex work, they are two different concepts. One is about (or should be about) mutual pleasure based on attraction, and the other is a paid for service (which may or may not result in mutual pleasure). Some people have issues with selling something that in their eyes should not be for sale. I can see where they come from as it is a fairly gluttonous purchase, and due to the emotions often attached with sex it's definitely a messier industry than most. I don't think that will ever change.
There is also that culturally it is unacceptable to sleep with/flirt with someone else's partner. In the case of sex workers those "moral values" are basically void as you're just doing your job and have little control over who visits you. This is very threatening to some women as they feel they need to compete, and there's the fear that their partner will spend all their money on another woman as well as having cheated. Due to the majority of women gaining more pleasure from sexual experiences where there's trust, an emotional attachment and mutual attraction there isn't really a popular female equivalent where we can easily hire male sex workers. This causes an imbalance which could be said allows more women to be seen as readily available sexual objects with men as the ones hiring. As a sex worker this means you're probably making bank, but I can see why some women get frustrated and wish it didn't exist. It's not a part of society I'm exactly keen on, but it's not going anywhere and I enjoy the work so I make it my own.

In regards to the men who watch porn all the time, go to strip clubs, hire prostitutes etc yet look down on them as though they're scum... In my experience they're fucking idiots and aren't really worth giving two thoughts about. I worked in a non nude strip/burlesque club for a few months last year as I didn't have internet to cam with and wanted to try it out, I had such a great time doing it but I had some guys who tried to convince me that I was hating life. I had just come back from travelling and was saving for studying, I got to work two nights a week basically having the time of my life and brought in over a thousand pounds a week. As you can probably imagine I was definitely not hating life, but for some guys they get completely thrown off by the idea that you're not gutter scum. The more intelligent seeming men, especially ones who were only there for a stag do were thrilled that I clearly loved dancing and didn't meet their expectations, but some of the more ignorant ones or the more regular strip club goers it was like their boner retracted inside their body when they realised I wasn't a bimbo. They don't mind being seen being a "disgusting creep" by a "dumb slut" so it completely throws some guys off if they realise you're more intelligent than them or aren't some wasted soul scrambling for pennies. It's sad but to me it shows their own shame of their habits, they feel it's ok to perve on girls if they see them as less than human. And they don't seem to be intelligent enough to work out for themselves that life doesn't work that way.

Sex work stigma is going away a bit, and I guess it depends on who you talk to. I have told some people and I can tell they clearly judge me, while others are impressed. As the stigma goes away though we get more and more girls getting into the industry, which as Kate pointed out, isn't necessarily good for us!

Oh also, one of my regulars is from Northern Ireland, he mentioned one of the reasons he started coming to cam sites was because you can't go to strip clubs there due to the religion. From what he said it sounded like sex work was not acceptable there. I'm from England so while we do have religious influences they're pretty minor, I don't think I've ever told anyone I've met who's Irish about camming so I wouldn't know their responses, but everyone I've met has seemed pretty easy going. I'm curious about the cultural differences though.
 
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But there are very big differences between shooting a porn on a porn set and camming, and for the sake of clarifying those points I am referring to one as porn and one as camming.
instead of saying 'I would never do porn' (which is the point at issue), what you mean to say is 'I do porn, but I would never do any porn where I don't get to be my own boss'.

personally I don't use the word porn to describe it though... but then again that's just my opinion :)
why is it your opinion that it's not porn?
 
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instead of saying 'I would never do porn' (which is the point at issue), what you mean to say is 'I do porn, but I would never do any porn where I don't get to be my own boss'.
"there are very big differences between shooting a porn on a porn set and camming, and for the sake of clarifying those points I am referring to one as porn and one as camming."


why is it your opinion that it's not porn?

"We're disagreeing on a name. Not what it entails, I don't agree that camming is porn"

"The reason I think there's a strong difference between porn and camming is because you're calling the shots on what you do on cam, you're also in control of how what you're doing comes across, porn is heavily edited. In porn you have to do as you're told by a director which I think is huge and is massively different to setting your own boundaries and being the director of your own show, so to speak.

Also in camming, despite the fact that your videos will end up online and in some cases be impossible to remove at the end of the day you are the copyright owner of the materiel."

"there are very big differences between shooting a porn on a porn set and camming, and for the sake of clarifying those points I am referring to one as porn and one as camming."

"It would not bother me in the slightest if someone called what I do porn, personally I don't use the word porn to describe it though... but then again that's just my opinion"
 
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I gotta agree with @uncoveredmanhole here. Might wanna differentiate between amateur vs mainstream instead.
 
I think you're confusing 'what' and 'why', Alex. please re-read.

A: "I think the world is an octopus, that's just my opinion"
B: "why do you think that (why is that your opinion) (what explains you believing that to be so)?"
A: "let me refer you to my earlier statement: "I think the world is an octopus, that's just my opinion"
 
I gotta agree with @uncoveredmanhole here. Might wanna differentiate between amateur vs mainstream instead.
possibly even making a distinction between hired and self-employed, to distinguish the amateur pornstars for hire vs amateur pornstars via cam. (and maybe a third category or other noteable branch for studio cam models).
 
I think you're confusing 'what' and 'why', Alex. please re-read.

A: "I think the world is an octopus, that's just my opinion"
B: "why do you think that (why is that your opinion) (what explains you believing that to be so)?"
A: "let me refer you to my earlier statement: "I think the world is an octopus, that's just my opinion"

I do not use the word "porn" to describe camming.
I am not looking to write an essay on it.
If the clarifications I have provided are not sufficient I can tell you that you're right if it will make you feel better?
 
I do not use the word "porn" to describe camming.

I understand that you don't. I'm curious why you don't.

I want to understand your point of view, compare and contrast it with my own, and see if I can learn anything. People generally hold the opinions they think are worth holding. If your opinion is worth you holding, it might be worth me holding it, so I would like to understand it, because I cannot hold an opinion as a sheer act of will, but only through comprehending a reasoning that warrants it as a conclusion. I honestly don't care what you believe, and I don't care about your life or changing your mind about anything. I just want to understand if there is any value in what you claim (I say claim because it's an opinion on an objective reality -- 'my opinion that the world is flat' is a claim about the real world around us, relevant to everyone ... it matters whether or not the claim is correct, unlike a claim like 'Nickelback is enjoyable').

wow, 4am already? :hungover:

I am not looking to write an essay on it.
If the clarifications I have provided are not sufficient I can tell you that you're right if it will make you feel better?
would it require an essay?

I can explain in very few words why it's my opinion puppies are not tigers.
What makes your worldview of porn so difficult to articulate in a sentence, or a paragraph at most?

If the clarifications I have provided are not sufficient I can tell you that you're right if it will make you feel better?

::sigh::
 
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I gotta agree with @uncoveredmanhole here. Might wanna differentiate between amateur vs mainstream instead.
While we are arguing semantics, I'd say that while "Prostitution" definition can also apply to camming, I wouldn't go around calling it that, either.

Screen Shot 2017-04-16 at 9.06.30 AM.png
 
While we are arguing semantics, I'd say that while "Prostitution" definition can also apply to camming, I wouldn't go around calling it that, either.

View attachment 69752
This!

If someone said to me they did Porn, I would not think of camming and visa versa.

Sure technically you can call camming porn but as far as I'm concerned they're different words for different things.
 
While we are arguing semantics, I'd say that while "Prostitution" definition can also apply to camming, I wouldn't go around calling it that, either.

View attachment 69752

I'd agree, purely because camming is so broad, that prostitution only potentially describes some of it.

I'm a camstripper and possibly (debatable) a pornographer and pornstar* when I dance sensually hoping for gifts of small amounts of money. I'm a camwhore and pornographer/pornstar when I accept a payment to perform a sexual act for someone (prostitution). I'm a cam model when I'm camming, whether being as boring as a receptionist, or as posy as a model in a photo shoot, or as sexy as a stripper, or as sexual as a prostitute. I'm a camslut (is that a term?) and pornographer/star when I'm an exhibitionist on cam doing sexual acts for no payment or gratuity. 'cam model' encompasses all of that--doing any of those is being both one of those and 'a cam model', so camming isn't always/necessarily prostitution.

*for convenience we'll just assume we're talking solo camming
 
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If someone said to me they did Porn, I would not think of camming and visa versa.

if someone said to me that 'I drive for a living', I might think of truck drivers or digger operators or Uber or taxi drivers, but if it turns out he's a racecar driver, that doesn't mean he's wrong to think of his job that way, merely because I don't happen to readily think of his job as an example of that kind of job. It fits the definition, that's all the matters (as to the question of the definition of a thing).
 
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@AmberCutie yeah technically both are umbrella terms, and agreed that sometimes despite ian umbrella term seeming like it defines it, it may not quite fit either.
 
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@AmberCutie yeah technically both are umbrella terms, and agreed that sometimes despite ian umbrella term seeming like it defines it, it may not quite fit either.
I disagreed with your post simply because you were suggesting Alex should listen to uncoveredmanhole, when uncoveredmanhole was basically stating Alex was wrong. I don't think there's any wrong/right, merely the way we choose to describe our jobs. Alex stated he understands why people would use the word to describe it, but doesn't use it himself because it doesn't best describe his job. It's not wrong, it's just a preference.

See what I'm getting at?
 
I disagreed with your post simply because you were suggesting Alex should listen to uncoveredmanhole, when uncoveredmanhole was basically stating Alex was wrong. I don't think there's any wrong/right, merely the way we choose to describe our jobs. Alex stated he understands why people would use the word to describe it, but doesn't use it himself because it doesn't best describe his job. It's not wrong, it's just a preference.

See what I'm getting at?

No problem. I gotcha. I wasn't meaning anything by it other than some people will take what we do as a form of porn. Personally I have no issue with it, but I do differentiate about how I do everything myself, own all the rights etc unlike mainstream porn. I know some folks tend not to like to associate with it because of the "darker side" of mainstream porn however, and I can see why. Problem I think really boils down to what to call things to where everyone won't think badly of it yet also know what you're talking about. That's a constant problem in camming though, as in other lines of sex work. Heck one of the sites I upload to is even called AmateurPorn, so I can't very easily go correcting members on it.

I actually agreed with Alex about everything he said previous to that post. I felt uncoveredmanhole was simply explaining how porn could be more broadly translated than simply mainstream porn. I agree that there isn't a wrong/right mentality, but didn't want everyone thinking that they should necessarily consider porn a bad term either.
 
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While we are arguing semantics, I'd say that while "Prostitution" definition can also apply to camming, I wouldn't go around calling it that, either.
In some circles prostitution may be less stigmatized than camming due to one of perceived choice.
Prostitution seen as a hidden service some people fall victim to, while camming is seen as perpetuating and adding to other perversions i.e. 'the unworthy or corrupt use of ones talents for the sake of personal or financial gain.'

In this sense the cam industry is seen as this centuries' pornographers. The playboy or hustler of the tech age, determining the next generations' sexual appetites.
Given how much fun camming can be, I actually wish it were true, pity it isn't. Younger generations use cam interactions quite differently, I suspect their porn will be more about viewing a partners perspective, than the partner themselves.
 
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