#WomenAgainstFeminism

[PunkInDrublic]

lololol. and done with this part. super useless side step in conversation. Back to the real shit.

lol indeed, I'm done as well as long as you stop making things up and trying to put words in my mouth.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I don't think feminists want standards lowered. They just want women allowed to be there. They're not saying "I know that a man is required to do xyz for a strength test but for us you should lower it to pqr" they're saying "if a woman can also pass the standard of xyz why can't she get the job". If the industries are lowering standards so that they can fit a quot and prove they're being "equal" they're the ones makin the mistakes.
As for child rearing, I'd love to see the studies.

It is hard to generalize what feminist want, since seemly nobody in this thread is a feminist or everyone is, depending on who you ask. I don't think anybody in this thread and very few people in western society disagree with "if f a woman can also pass the standard of xyz why can't she get the job" But what we have seen in the last 30 years or so a wide variety of mostly government jobs (like the military or public safety) male dominated jobs being open to woman, and we find even decades latter a very small percentage of woman in the jobs, 3% of UK firefighters are woman (2007) 4% US (2008). This has led to calls, mostly by feminist, to get more woman into a XYZ field and the easiest way to do for these physically demanding jobs is to lower the standards.

This has produced an backlash which is understandable IMO.

The greatest percentage of single fathers gained custody of children as the result of parental divorce. Single fathers are more likely to gain custody of children when mothers have either chosen not to retain custody or are perceived to be incompetent. Single fathers are more likely to have custody of older rather than younger children and of boys rather than girls. By and large, the challenges for single fathers and single mothers are similar and include the difficulties of combining parenting responsibilities and employment, and economic disadvantage

On average, single fathers have higher standards of living than do single mothers, which decreases potential stresses within the family. Yet single mothers have been reported to have warmer and more structured relationships with their children than do single fathers. Several studies have indicated that once economic factors are taken into account, children from single-mother families fare better than children from single-father families. Such differences may be accounted for by these parenting differences or by the aforementioned differences in the circumstances surrounding the father custody arrangement.

Read more: Single-Parent Families - Single Fathers Compared To Single Mothers - Children, Custody, Parenting, and Differences - JRank Articles http://social.jrank.org/pages/581/Singl ... z3AKE2LLqJ

I didn't spend the money to read the whole study.

I think on average woman are more nurturing than men especially with children. Perhaps it is just having to get carry the kid around in for 9 months creates a deeper bond with that child. The bond means that they are more willing to put the needs of the child ahead of their own needs of their kids, which is why men abandon kids at higher rate than woman. I suspect part of this is societal pressure, a woman abandoning a child is horrifying, less so for a man. But I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't belief that part of this is millions of years of biological evolution.

 

[Violet October]

I think on average woman are more nurturing than men especially with children. Perhaps it is just having to get carry the kid around in for 9 months creates a deeper bond with that child. The bond means that they are more willing to put the needs of the child ahead of their own needs of their kids, which is why men abandon kids at higher rate than woman.

Also has to do with the fact that men are taught to repress their emotions at a young age, so they don't always know how to form emotional relationships and nurture them in the best way. Goes back to gender roles. Emotions are feminine. Boys are taught to solve problems through violence and to ignore emotions. Emotions aren't masculine and makes them weak.

But I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't belief that part of this is millions of years of biological evolution.

If I could thank this a million times, I would. People who like to ignore the fact that our biological makeup accounts for SO much of our psychologies. And women, imo, are even more susceptible to their biological makeup then men are. Which is NOT A BAD THING. Just a fact. A fact that people like to ignore.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

^Hey Violet, if I try to get back in the conversation are you going to continue to make things up and then just respond with "lol moving on" if I call you on your bullshit? Not trying to be a dick here but I don't want to get involved if it means I'm just going to be misunderstood/have people put words in my mouth.

 

[Violet October]

^Hey Violet, if I try to get back in the conversation are you going to continue to make things up and then just respond with "lol moving on" if I call you on your bullshit? Not trying to be a dick here but I don't want to get involved if it means I'm just going to be misunderstood/have people put words in my mouth.

We disagree with who was calling who on the bullshit. But, carry on. I now have you on ignore anyways. So I won't see or respond. So you can chat with others.

 

[caireen]

^Hey Violet, if I try to get back in the conversation are you going to continue to make things up and then just respond with "lol moving on" if I call you on your bullshit? Not trying to be a dick here but I don't want to get involved if it means I'm just going to be misunderstood/have people put words in my mouth.

 

[Violet October]

That gif made me snort laugh. I love it.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

I now have you on ignore anyways. So I won't see or respond. So you can chat with others.

Whoa hold on, why do that? That is the internet equivalent of someone sticking his fingers in his ears and sticking out his tongue at you. Put me on ignore because you don't like me, find me annoying, etc. Don't put me on ignore as a favor to me. I don't think ignoring people that don't agree with everything you say is a good move but you can't read this so I'm not sure why I'm bothering. Ah well, moving on.

 

[AlexLady]

I found a thread on a forum that kind-of addresses some of my reasons for being against feminism. If anyone would like to read it feel free to PM me for a link.


I don't agree with all of the posters--they're a wide range of people on the subject--but there are many sub-topics they bring up that I click with.

 

[mutantdonut]

I'm disappointed when I read:
-Some people's opinions and assumptions when they are almost completely built around stereotypes.
-HUGE generalizations about a certain aspect of a topic, still drenched in stereotypes.
-People making an argument on their singular experience about a situation or topic while basically saying other women's experiences 'don't count' because it's not the same for them personally.

I’m gonna add to this list

Knee-jerk conclusions based on shallow or misguided information, oftentimes taken from face value

 

[PunkInDrublic]

gif

So I'm super defensive and you think I'm beating a dead horse by trying to stick up for myself, kinda shitty of you. Don't care if you think I'm beating a dead horse, not just going to let someone try to speak for me or make things up. I'm sure you will think I'm beating a dead horse by posting this and even I will admit I am but I don't care. Post another gif, won't add anything of value to the topic or help anyone understand anything but you will get a bunch of thanks! Imagine the outrage if a dude here posted that gif when a model was trying to stick up for herself or get an explanation, shits funny. Alright, felt good to get that off my chest. Way too much drama in this thread and I don't want to add anymore to it so I'm just going to read and hopefully not have to try to defend myself anymore.

 

[JJasione]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well. Men who don't conform are pushed out as pussies and faggots because CLEARLY if you're not conforming to stereotypical masculinity, you're gay right? You've probably heard it thrown at you before. And it might not have bothered you personally, but there are kids in schools being bullied to the point of suicide for this stuff and that should matter.

Re: feminists want standards lowering for job positions- I've never personally perceived that to be the case. If a person of any gender is able and is keeping up the extremely high physical standards required to fill those roles, and is passing the tests you take to get there I don't see why they should be turned away because of gender.

Edit: I wanted to add that I guess a bunch of those things also come under "people's issues" or whatever else you wanna call it too and I guess there's a bunch of people who want to fix all that too and not call themselves a feminist? And that's cool too, But if people are going for a common goal I think it's a waste of time and energy to be arguing over what you call yourself.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

 

[SexySteph]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.

Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).

 

[PlayboyMegan]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.

Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).

I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."

 

[SexySteph]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.

Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).

I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."

Traditional roles do put women under men. In the sense that the traditional roles expect men to be able to say "I want a sandwich and a martini" and his wife is supposed to leap up and deliver. Traditional roles expect a woman to be entirely happy living for someone else. Traditional roles mean the man is the dominant of the house and the woman is the submissive.

Traditional roles =/= domestic roles

 

[JJasione]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.

Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).

I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."

I meant it more as Steph expanded on.

As in, if I ever had a daughter, I'd want her to know that if she wants to go be some powerhouse business woman who never had kids, that's fine because that's her choice and nobody should ever tell her otherwise. Same goes if she wanted to be a stay at home mum to 10 kids and 3 dogs, or if she wanted to travel the world with her mates for her entire life. And that would work for if I had a son too, if he wanted to go be a career man or a stay at home dad or whatever, becasue that's a valid and valuable life choice too.

I don't think girls should be raised to aspire to certain things just as I don't think boys should be either. They should be taught that they can do whatever the hell they want with their lives and it would be a valid and valuable choice, so long as they're the ones making it.

EDIT: Also what Steph said above cause she replied at the same time as me.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

And I've never really understood the "anti men" claim when one part of feminism is fighting for the fact that traditional gender roles and masculinity don't just put women under men, it puts men who don't conform under them as well.

I don't believe traditional gender roles put women under men, at all.
I think that's one of the reasons people hate feminists. Because so many women who claim to be feminists put down other women who CHOSE traditional gender roles. That's not cool. I applaud stay at home mothers, it's not an easy job.

That's not the case at all. What feminism says if women shouldn't be EXPECTED to fulfill those roles. Raising our daughters to believe that her greatest aspiration should be to be cook and clean is telling girls that their own dreams don't matter. But if that's what you CHOOSE for yourself instead of doing something else, well that's great too, because that's your CHOICE.

Feminism even talks about the fact that domestic jobs (stay at home mother and the like) are (and always have been) undervalued. And as long as we treat it as not valuable than it makes it "okay" for society to treat choosing kids over career as being lazy (and makes it seem also as not an option for men).

I get it. I'm just replying to what Jas said. Maybe she misspoke or I understood it wrong, but it sounded as if she said "traditional roles put women under men."

Traditional roles do put women under men. In the sense that the traditional roles expect men to be able to say "I want a sandwich and a martini" and his wife is supposed to leap up and deliver. Traditional roles expect a woman to be entirely happy living for someone else. Traditional roles mean the man is the dominant of the house and the woman is the submissive.

Traditional roles =/= domestic roles

I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.

 

[SexySteph]

I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.

I clearly said traditional roles =/= domestic roles. Traditional roles are like... What you see on Mad Men. Domestic roles are being a caretaker of a household and the children, or whatever, regardless of what your gender is.

When it's a choice, it's fine, when it's done out of expectation because not doing so would make you "less of a woman" then it's not okay.

I feel like you're skimming posts so you can argue and not actually reading what's said.

 

[BarbieLuv]

I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.

I clearly said traditional roles =/= domestic roles. Traditional roles are like... What you see on Mad Men. Domestic roles are being a caretaker of a household and the children, or whatever, regardless of what your gender is.

When it's a choice, it's fine, when it's done out of expectation because not doing so would make you "less of a woman" then it's not okay.

Yes, but this is actually worse for men, if we're talking about expectations/traditional roles.

So the woman is expected to stay home, cook the meals, take care of the children and the household. Maybe do some volunteer work, make friends with the other housewives, do the shopping, etc. Okay, fine.

But the man is expected to go out and do absolutely whatever it takes to provide financial support. So in a old-school traditional household if there wasn't enough money to go around, the man would be forced to take a second or third job just to fulfill his obligation to his family/keep his social standing in the community. He's expected not to show emotions ('real men don't cry'), to 'take things like a man', and always be strong and stoic. He's also expected to have a social life, to be active in the community, to be a leader of the family, handle the finances, maintain the lawn/exterior of the house, and keep up appearances at all costs.

If we're talking about inequality, men kind of get the short end of the stick here. I'm not saying that both genders don't have their issues, but men don't seem to be listened too as much when it comes to the same issues. And they DO face some of the same issues as women, along with ones that are gender-specific. Men are just as much victims in this society as women - They are raped, they have body image issues/eating disorders, they have issues getting custody of children, are judged on how 'manly' they are, etc.

 

[SexySteph]

I don't agree with that.
There are plenty of stay at home mothers who aren't expected to be slaves to their husbands. Further more, some women WANT to be submissive and enjoy making sandwiches for their husband. I don't believe making that choice puts you under a man in anyway. He provides you with a house, you provide him with meals, that seems equal in my eyes.

I clearly said traditional roles =/= domestic roles. Traditional roles are like... What you see on Mad Men. Domestic roles are being a caretaker of a household and the children, or whatever, regardless of what your gender is.

When it's a choice, it's fine, when it's done out of expectation because not doing so would make you "less of a woman" then it's not okay.

Yes, but this is actually worse for men, if we're talking about expectations/traditional roles.

So the woman is expected to stay home, cook the meals, take care of the children and the household. Maybe do some volunteer work, make friends with the other housewives, do the shopping, etc. Okay, fine.

But the man is expected to go out and do absolutely whatever it takes to provide financial support. So in a old-school traditional household if there wasn't enough money to go around, the man would be forced to take a second or third job just to fulfill his obligation to his family/keep his social standing in the community. He's expected not to show emotions ('real men don't cry'), to 'take things like a man', and always be strong and stoic. He's also expected to have a social life, to be active in the community, to be a leader of the family, handle the finances, maintain the lawn/exterior of the house, and keep up appearances at all costs.

If we're talking about inequality, men kind of get the short end of the stick here. I'm not saying that both genders don't have their issues, but men don't seem to be listened too as much when it comes to the same issues. And they DO face some of the same issues as women, along with ones that are gender-specific. Men are just as much victims in this society as women - They are raped, they have body image issues/eating disorders, they have issues getting custody of children, are judged on how 'manly' they are, etc.

We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.

 

[caireen]

But the man is expected to go out and do absolutely whatever it takes to provide financial support. So in a old-school traditional household if there wasn't enough money to go around, the man would be forced to take a second or third job just to fulfill his obligation to his family

In past times, working class families (families that couldn't survive on just the father's income) usually had two working parents- women would take paying work, also. As well as be expected to provide child care and take care of the home and cooking for the family. I definitely think in those kinds of situations women in general were/are worse off. Studies show that still today in general women that work outside the home work much longer hours than men- they have a double day, because generally they still fulfill domestic roles after they get home from their paying jobs.

Definitely, however, men have it rough too at times; if they lose social standing because they can't provide for their families, if they choose to be a stay at home parent they are ridiculed, etc. Neither situation is perfect and I believe that feminists want people of any gender to be free of expectations and restrictions when it comes to these things.

 

[BarbieLuv]

We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.

I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)

 

[SexySteph]

We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.

I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)

I guess I have a skewed view because I graduated with a degree in women's studies so the last 5 years of my life was spent discussing men and women's issues, defining feminism and engaging in social activism but my experience of feminism, and the feminism that occurred in my department, was very concerned with both genders.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.

I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)

I guess I have a skewed view because I graduated with a degree in women's studies so the last 5 years of my life was spent discussing men and women's issues, defining feminism and engaging in social activism but my experience of feminism, and the feminism that occurred in my department, was very concerned with both genders.

Yea, but I think Gemma is right about that not being the majority.
Besides the women here, I have yet to meet a feminist that even want to acknowledge that men issues exist.

 

[JickyJuly]

Traditional gender roles hurt men tons, but that hurt is caused by the fact that women are seen as lesser. Men ARE pressured to live a certain way and the cost of choosing to go against social norms is probably larger for men. Not fulfilling the expectation to be macho means you are like a woman. You fall from 1st place to 2nd. Women taking on traditionally male ways is more accepted and often celebrated. Fixing womens' issues would also fix mens'. It's all the same pile of nonsense.

I could be very wrong about this, but I think the role of stay at home parent and how it is perceived has changed a ton in the last 60 years. So, old feminist views on it aren't really relevant to the stay at home parents of today. Back in the day, a family could usually get by on 1 parent working and the other staying with the kids. That's no longer the truth for the average family. So, being able to have a parent stay home is really a luxury. It's not assumed today that a woman will leave her job or skip out on schooling to be a mom because for many families that is just not feasible. I'll admit I judge stay at home parents who complain that they have it rough because SO many parents would love to be in their shoes. And, those parents have to do all of the same things a stay at home parent does when they get home from work on top of paying for childcare and dealing with the guilt that comes from missing out on your kids.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

This video is one of the things that annoys me about modern feminism. Ms. Green starts off with a bunch of strawman argument that rail against practices that while true in the 50s, were under challenge in the 60s, the majority had changed their opinion by the 80s. Today they are not longer accepted by the vast majority of folks in the west, other than a few trolls on twitter, and some very religious folks.

So when Lacie Green says that "Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves", I say BS. I certainly never heard a teacher say anything of the sort when I was in high school. I seriously doubt more than a percent or two of public school teacher in the 21st century have said that in classroom. In what class: social studies, sex ed?.. That doesn't mean that slut shamming isn't true, but I don't think that is reflection of societies views, but rather the simple fact that teenagers are often really cruel. Now days social media allow people to remain teenagers their entire life.

She goes on to say "1 in 4 young woman are victims of sexual assault and society says what was she wearing", she manages to make two distortions in one sentence. First the statistic, according to the National Crime Victimization Survey of 70,000 people .08% of woman were victims of rape or sexual assault in 2009. What a victim was wearing has been inadmissible in court since 1978, and host of other victims related activity (i.e. past sexual activity) where no longer allowed when the law was changed in 1994. We shouldn't confused what a few idiots say on twitter with what society believes.

Mad Man is good case in point, it is not traditional for men to wear hats, people to smoke any damn where they please, and folks to drink in the office. Nor is it traditional for bosses to bang their secretaries. Those were traditions in the 60s, but are no longer traditions in 2014. It doesn't mean they don't happen but they are no longer commonly practiced. It is no longer traditional for wives to obey their husband. I am hard pressed to think of a more tradition bound organization than the Britain's Royal family. Yet back in 1981 Princess Diane took out the "honor and obey" part out of her wedding vow, as did Kate Middleton. Yes some woman do choose to practice obedience to their husband and certainly some are in abusive relationships are forced to be obedient, but this is the exception not the norm.

We need a better word to describe these practices than traditional, old, old fashioned, obsolete all come to mind. It seems to me that Bill Mahr is more right than wrong when he says "the feminine values are now the values of America "

The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world.

I agree 100% with this. There are massive societal problems in much of Africa especially for woman. In the Middle East the problems woman face are truly horrendous and are starting to rival those faced by oppressed groups under fascism and communism. I had have a lot more respect for feminism if their spent more of their time speaking out against these problems and less of their time trying to make sure that 50% of the Congress or CEO were woman.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"

They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:

I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.

 

[SexySteph]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"

They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:

I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

 

[Nordling]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"

They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:

I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.

Yes, and for anyone to believe it doesn't happen any more in the US, I invite them to spend five minutes in ANY cam model's chat room and read the garbage coming off the fingertips of the "modern American male."