#WomenAgainstFeminism

[SexySteph]

I don't have a lot to say in response to the alimony talk happening because it's not something I've ever thought hard about, but I do wanna add this video if it hasn't already been shared (this thread is a lot to take in trying to read it all at once, ha).

She pretty much sums up in the general, broader sense why I would count myself in as a feminist. It's not just about catcalling and street harassment and girls being scared to walk down the street, it's about race issues, gender issues, sexuality, men's issues. The problems might not be on my door step, but they do exist in other parts of the world. So while you yourself may not be effected, other people are, and I think that's something worthy of discussion. It's intersectional. And there are feminists who will exclude trans people and openly hate men, but if you have a handful of brain cells to rub together and think critically you'd not be supporting their particular type of feminism.

"Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves"

They do. They lose their hymen. :lol:

I don't think most schools teach that you lose a part of yourself when you have sex. But slut shaming is so relevant in society from people of all ages and the vast majority only inflict their shaming solely on women.

Yes, and for anyone to believe it doesn't happen any more in the US, I invite them to spend five minutes in ANY cam model's chat room and read the garbage coming off the fingertips of the "modern American male."

Even the "my girlfriend wants to be a camgirl" threads generally have subtle slut shaming. The concept that it's negative having a camgirl for a girlfriend comes from that ingrained slut shaming in our society.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

I am not arguing that slut shamming doesn't happen. I am arguing that it isn't taught in public schools in the same way that history, or algebra is taught. Who exactly taught you this and what did he/she say?

I'd also say that if anything there is more societal and especially per pressure for woman to have sex early. Who do you think gets picked on more in the high school senior who is a virgin, or the girl that has had a sex with couple of boyfriends? My money is on the virgin.

It seems to me that role models for young woman are far more likely to be woman (e.g. singers) who dress and act "slutty" than small number of self proclaimed virgins.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

I am not arguing that slut shamming doesn't happen. I am arguing that it isn't taught in public schools in the same way that history, or algebra is taught. Who exactly taught you this and what did he/she say?

I'd also say that if anything there is more societal and especially per pressure for woman to have sex early. Who do you think gets picked on more in the high school senior who is a virgin, or the girl that has had a sex with couple of boyfriends? My money is on the virgin.

It seems to me that role models for young woman are far more likely to be woman (e.g. singers) who dress and act "slutty" than small number of self proclaimed virgins.

The only time I ever felt pressure to have sex, was by the guy that wanted it. As soon as I did, I was a slut in everyone else's eyes.
I think guys are teased about being a virgin far more than women.

Girls often look up to women who "dress slutty" because they receive the most attention, and most girls want attention.

 

[SexySteph]

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

I am not arguing that slut shamming doesn't happen. I am arguing that it isn't taught in public schools in the same way that history, or algebra is taught. Who exactly taught you this and what did he/she say?

I'd also say that if anything there is more societal and especially per pressure for woman to have sex early. Who do you think gets picked on more in the high school senior who is a virgin, or the girl that has had a sex with couple of boyfriends? My money is on the virgin.

It seems to me that role models for young woman are far more likely to be woman (e.g. singers) who dress and act "slutty" than small number of self proclaimed virgins.

Who taught that? My sex ed teachers.

As for what you're saying about societal pressure and what not. It's the Madonna/whore paradox. We're expected to have sex, to be good at sex, our idols are all sex objects but at the same time when we do those things, we're seen as less valuable. And we're definitely not expected to speak openly about it. We're expected to walk this tight rope of being sexual but not being slutty.

Note that you said the girl who has had sex with a "couple" boyfriends. A few sexual partners is acceptable, applauded even. None at all and you're "frigid", too many and you're a slut.

 

[Nordling]

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

I am not arguing that slut shamming doesn't happen. I am arguing that it isn't taught in public schools in the same way that history, or algebra is taught. Who exactly taught you this and what did he/she say?

I'd also say that if anything there is more societal and especially per pressure for woman to have sex early. Who do you think gets picked on more in the high school senior who is a virgin, or the girl that has had a sex with couple of boyfriends? My money is on the virgin.

It seems to me that role models for young woman are far more likely to be woman (e.g. singers) who dress and act "slutty" than small number of self proclaimed virgins.

Well, true. But after the pressure wins, she is slut shamed. That's how it works...just like in the 50s and before. In part, it's about bullying and peer pressure and fear. Yes, there may be more enlightened people on this topic now than years ago, but we still have vast numbers of unenlightened people.

 

[JickyJuly]

Virginity is a concept that technically only applies to women. You have sex, you lose it. Girls are taught that every additional partner you have, you lose value. She's "cheap". I remember very clearly learning that sex is for marriage and if you can't keep your legs closed your future husband won't want you. That sounds like being told you lose something (value) to me.

I am not arguing that slut shamming doesn't happen. I am arguing that it isn't taught in public schools in the same way that history, or algebra is taught. Who exactly taught you this and what did he/she say?

I'd also say that if anything there is more societal and especially per pressure for woman to have sex early. Who do you think gets picked on more in the high school senior who is a virgin, or the girl that has had a sex with couple of boyfriends? My money is on the virgin.

It seems to me that role models for young woman are far more likely to be woman (e.g. singers) who dress and act "slutty" than small number of self proclaimed virgins.

I think when she says taught, she doesn't mean it was written on the blackboard during class. Societal values/norms are learned in school interactions. Being a girl in middle school is agony. Agony. *shudders* While the primary purpose of public school is education, that's not its only purpose. And most of those slutty dressed singers also claim to be virginal. Women lose value as they gain bedmates. Men gain value for every woman they bang. Turn men on, but don't have sex. Our culture is a total mindfuck. It's no wonder people don't understand the purpose of feminism.

 

[LilyEvans]

I was taught in both high school sex-ed class and in middle school science class (where we had a section devoted entirely to abstinence...seriously) that having sex literally made women gross and worth less. Wanna know what the lesson was?

Teacher held up a piece of gum and asked if anyone wanted it. Most of us raised our hands. He stuck it in his mouth and chewed it up, then spit it out. He asked, "Okay, now who wants it?" See, women (much like bubblegum) are only good one time! Sex makes you icky and gross. Why would you want a woman who's been all used up? :roll: This lesson was directed SPECIFICALLY at the girls and when someone asked why we got that whole "keys that unlock many doors are good keys, locks that open for any keys are bad locks" bullshit.

 

[Gen]

I graduated high school not too long ago, and 100% the "sluts" were made fun of more than the virgins. There was some pressure to have sex, mostly from the guys, but not really from the girls. It was kind of a weird mix of pressure to be doing it and to be sexy, but not to be slutty. One girl did make fun of my friends for being a virgin but everyone defended her. Our education was pretty good, though, they didn't emphasize abstinence or anything.

 

[Violet October]

We were just discussing a few posts ago how feminism is fighting against these issues too. I didn't mention them in my post because I was specifically talking about women but I don't think any one here has said that men don't suffer from these issues too.

I almost never see modern feminists talking about men's issues. Actual feminism at its core does, yes; but the new-wave feminists generally ignore or even deny that these are men's issues as well, or that feminists should be fighting for male issues. Thus why you get hashtags such as the one in the thread title where women want to distance themselves from the notion of 'feminism' entirely. It's almost become a militant term in the social consciousness, and it's now being viewed askance by both genders (and for good reason in its present form.)

This is what bothers me about feminism. They want yo be an "equality" group, which I understand in some form of the word. But it's pro-female equality. (And yes, I'm a feminist.) feminism shouldn't pretend to focus on men's issues. They focus on women's issues, and then some issues that affect men too. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. That's also why I believe MRA's are necessary. We need a orp-male equality group as well as a pro-female equality group. Special interest groups keep trying to pretend something they'e not. And not consciously pretending, it's subconscious. Also why I like the word "justice." Feminism does not focus on anything that is SPECIFICALLY men's problems. Nothing would be wrong with that if the movement didn't act like it did otherwise.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I think when she says taught, she doesn't mean it was written on the blackboard during class. Societal values/norms are learned in school interactions. Being a girl in middle school is agony. Agony. *shudders* While the primary purpose of public school is education, that's not its only purpose. And most of those slutty dressed singers also claim to be virginal. Women lose value as they gain bedmates. Men gain value for every woman they bang. Turn men on, but don't have sex. Our culture is a total mindfuck. It's no wonder people don't understand the purpose of feminism.

LOL I couldn't agree with you more it is a total mindfuck.

But let me, foolish and at least somewhat bravely, ask this question. Is it wrong to teach young woman that they should be very selective in their sex partners?
There is clearly a biological function for men to go spread their seed to as widely as possible. We do teach men that once they've made a commitment to a particular woman, they have to remain faithful and penalized them financially if they don't, e.g. child support, alimony. Hell even impeachment as Bill Maher says.

The pill and other form of birth control negate the biological necessity of woman being selective with who they have sex with. But I question if the psychological effects of sex are the same for men and woman. I think in general sex is more meaningful/emotional for woman than men. So a guy who has had 20 partners would feel positive about it (i.e. brag) but woman a who had 20 partners, would create conflicted feelings. Obviously there is a huge range of response and casual sex is perfectly fine for some woman, and not fine for some men. I think camgirls are probably atypical on their attitudes about sex.

There are have been a several books and plenty of articles on the subject (evolutionary psychology). One of the conclusions is that by advocating complete sexual equality, feminism maybe doing no favors to either sex. Woman because it causes them feeling of guilt (a complete mindfuck), and men because they never have to commit, means they grow up awfully late. Now how much of this societal and how much is biological is subject of considerable debate.

I think slut shaming is nasty and harmful way of enforcing societal values, but I am not sure (I mean I really don't know) if the message is the wrong one.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I was taught in both high school sex-ed class and in middle school science class (where we had a section devoted entirely to abstinence...seriously) that having sex literally made women gross and worth less. Wanna know what the lesson was?

Teacher held up a piece of gum and asked if anyone wanted it. Most of us raised our hands. He stuck it in his mouth and chewed it up, then spit it out. He asked, "Okay, now who wants it?" See, women (much like bubblegum) are only good one time! Sex makes you icky and gross. Why would you want a woman who's been all used up? :roll: This lesson was directed SPECIFICALLY at the girls and when someone asked why we got that whole "keys that unlock many doors are good keys, locks that open for any keys are bad locks" bullshit.

Ok well that is surprising. I honestly would have thought that would have been too politically incorrect to be taught in the last few years, but I guess I am wrong. It is certainly a different message than what my Bay Area friends say their teenage kids are being taught..

 

[SexySteph]

The pill and other form of birth control negate the biological necessity of woman being selective with who they have sex with. But I question if the psychological effects of sex are the same for men and woman. I think in general sex is more meaningful/emotional for woman than men. So a guy who has had 20 partners would feel positive about it (i.e. brag) but woman a who had 20 partners, would create conflicted feelings. Obviously there is a huge range of response and casual sex is perfectly fine for some woman, and not fine for some men. I think camgirls are probably atypical on their attitudes about sex.

That's sort of a nature v nurture question, when you think about it. Do we (women) feel distraught about our number of sexual partners because society tells us that we should have as few as possible or we're disgusting? OR do we feel that way and society tells us these things to protect us and to prevent us to avoid these negative feelings?

Personally, I think it's the first. I don't think feeling that way is built into us biologically.

I was taught in both high school sex-ed class and in middle school science class (where we had a section devoted entirely to abstinence...seriously) that having sex literally made women gross and worth less. Wanna know what the lesson was?

Teacher held up a piece of gum and asked if anyone wanted it. Most of us raised our hands. He stuck it in his mouth and chewed it up, then spit it out. He asked, "Okay, now who wants it?" See, women (much like bubblegum) are only good one time! Sex makes you icky and gross. Why would you want a woman who's been all used up? :roll: This lesson was directed SPECIFICALLY at the girls and when someone asked why we got that whole "keys that unlock many doors are good keys, locks that open for any keys are bad locks" bullshit.

Ok well that is surprising. I honestly would have thought that would have been too politically incorrect to be taught in the last few years, but I guess I am wrong. It is certainly a different message than what my Bay Area friends say their teenage kids are being taught..

Most of us aren't really that young. lol What might be being taught in schools now is very different from what was being taught in schools 10 years ago (when many of us girls were in middle school or high school). There's a pretty good amount of teachers right now that are in OUR generation (it's so weird to me to think of 23 year olds teaching but I have a ton of friends who now teach HS). Hopefully this generation of kids doesn't get the same ideas pushed on them, but our generation went through it about a decade (or more) ago and it was way different then.

(I say a decade or more because most kids are subjected to these ideas from elementary school on. By the time we reach the end of HS it's already ingrained.)

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I think when she says taught, she doesn't mean it was written on the blackboard during class. Societal values/norms are learned in school interactions. Being a girl in middle school is agony. Agony. *shudders* While the primary purpose of public school is education, that's not its only purpose. And most of those slutty dressed singers also claim to be virginal. Women lose value as they gain bedmates. Men gain value for every woman they bang. Turn men on, but don't have sex. Our culture is a total mindfuck. It's no wonder people don't understand the purpose of feminism.

LOL I couldn't agree with you more it is a total mindfuck.

But let me, foolish and at least somewhat bravely, ask this question. Is it wrong to teach young woman that they should be very selective in their sex partners?
There is clearly a biological function for men to go spread their seed to as widely as possible. We do teach men that once they've made a commitment to a particular woman, they have to remain faithful and penalized them financially if they don't, e.g. child support, alimony. Hell even impeachment as Bill Maher says.

The pill and other form of birth control negate the biological necessity of woman being selective with who they have sex with. But I question if the psychological effects of sex are the same for men and woman. I think in general sex is more meaningful/emotional for woman than men. So a guy who has had 20 partners would feel positive about it (i.e. brag) but woman a who had 20 partners, would create conflicted feelings. Obviously there is a huge range of response and casual sex is perfectly fine for some woman, and not fine for some men. I think camgirls are probably atypical on their attitudes about sex.

There are have been a several books and plenty of articles on the subject (evolutionary psychology). One of the conclusions is that by advocating complete sexual equality, feminism maybe doing no favors to either sex. Woman because it causes them feeling of guilt (a complete mindfuck), and men because they never have to commit, means they grow up awfully late. Now how much of this societal and how much is biological is subject of considerable debate.

I think slut shaming is nasty and harmful way of enforcing societal values, but I am not sure (I mean I really don't know) if the message is the wrong one.

I do feel like the majority of women have a natural instinct to have fewer partners and we feel naturally guilty if we don't. Yes, society is PARTLY to blame, but I think there is a psychological aspect there.
I look at it like maternal instincts. I would venture to say about 90% of women have that biological clicking clock that says, "I want babies!!!" But there's also that 10% that don't experience that feeling at all.
So by advising women to be selective in their sex partners, is excluding the women who are able to have care-free sex with many partners. Then they become outcasts and the slut shaming begins because they have a different mentality than most women.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I was taught in both high school sex-ed class and in middle school science class (where we had a section devoted entirely to abstinence...seriously) that having sex literally made women gross and worth less. Wanna know what the lesson was?

Teacher held up a piece of gum and asked if anyone wanted it. Most of us raised our hands. He stuck it in his mouth and chewed it up, then spit it out. He asked, "Okay, now who wants it?" See, women (much like bubblegum) are only good one time! Sex makes you icky and gross. Why would you want a woman who's been all used up? :roll: This lesson was directed SPECIFICALLY at the girls and when someone asked why we got that whole "keys that unlock many doors are good keys, locks that open for any keys are bad locks" bullshit.

Ok well that is surprising. I honestly would have thought that would have been too politically incorrect to be taught in the last few years, but I guess I am wrong. It is certainly a different message than what my Bay Area friends say their teenage kids are being taught..

I believe location has A LOT to do with what children are taught.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I believe location has A LOT to do with what children are taught.

I just said the same thing in a PM. I also don't think this is likely to change. Gallup polling on pro-choice vs pro-life percentages have remained remarkable stable since the 1970s and I think the same thing is true for this issue.

Kids on the coast and in the cities are going to get a very different message than those in the rest of the country. So I think the feminist position of advocating for pure sexual equality is going to fall on deaf ears for a long time.

 

[JickyJuly]

Ahh HiGirls! That is a pretty fascinating question. I know that in wild animals females choose and males hump what they can get. I think money and smarts kind of void that system for humans. A conventionally unattractive dude who can provide for or talk his way into the heart of a woman will probably get just as many offers as a dude who hit the genetic jackpot I bet. I think in our society men actually need to be MORE choosey than women when it comes to sex partners. Not only because the contraception available to men is less reliable but because once a woman is pregnant all decisions are hers (as they must be). And, if she chooses to see through an unplanned pregnancy, most of the parenting choices are hers too. Trying to coparent with someone you don't know well or aren't compatible with has the potential to break hearts especially if you aren't given equal rights as a parent. I don't think that women are necessarily more emotional about sex, but almost everyone is emotional over their children.

There are other problems with the idea that women need to be careful while men spread their biological material too. When a man turns down a woman's advances, his masculinity is questioned. Men shouldn't have to defend their "no thank you"s any more than women should. It also kind of backs up the idea that sex is something men do and women allow to be done to them. It implies that for a woman, sex is about the man she's chosen while for him she is a place to get off. It is way more sensible to look at sex as a shared experience.

 

[Nordling]

While primitive humans may have needed the species-specific biological necessities to choose more or fewer partners depending on your gender, this is no longer necessary, and in reality is rather harmful--as we have already overpopulated the planet with our ilk, possibly beyond its ability to provide a comfortable life for us.

Humans have a huge brain, and are more than capable of overcoming any biologically enforced psychological pressures to behave sexually in a manner that helps us spread our DNA. Of course there are OTHER, practical reasons for both men and women to avoid complete promiscuity--STDs.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

I believe location has A LOT to do with what children are taught.

I just said the same thing in a PM. I also don't think this is likely to change. Gallup polling on pro-choice vs pro-life percentages have remained remarkable stable since the 1970s and I think the same thing is true for this issue.

Kids on the coast and in the cities are going to get a very different message than those in the rest of the country. So I think the feminist position of advocating for pure sexual equality is going to fall on deaf ears for a long time.

I agree. Local attitudes must have a ton to do with this. I am older than most of the people here, and even when I was in middle school and high school, there was very little said about "sluts" or women losing value if they had sex. In fact, I'd bet that if a teacher had dared to use that chewing gum analogy, parents would have complained and gotten him fired (and it would have been deserved IMO, I mean WTF?). I went to school near a coast and a big city, by the way.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Of course there are OTHER, practical reasons for both men and women to avoid complete promiscuity--STDs.

This is what the high school I went to in the midwest went overboard in teaching. No slut talk or crazy men with gum thankfully, but days of learning about all the different diseases. Was terrifying. After that they made us take care of a toy baby for a week. Wonder if they still do the toy baby thing.

 

[Gen]

I got the toy baby! It's programmed to cry randomly and we had to take it for two nights at home. It woke me up 2-3 times per night! We also had to take it class where it'd cry and we'd have to take it outside to comfort it. We had little wristbands that had sensors or something, and a bottle and diapers with them too, so it'd be trial-and-error to find out if it wanted food, a diaper change, or just to be held. Then it would record how long it was crying so if you stuck it in a closet and ignored it, you'd fail. (Mine rolled off the bed and got shaken baby syndrome :shock: )

And we had only one teen mom during my entire five years, so maybe it helped. I sure didn't want a baby after that.

 

[JJasione]

So when Lacie Green says that "Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves", I say BS. I certainly never heard a teacher say anything of the sort when I was in high school. I seriously doubt more than a percent or two of public school teacher in the 21st century have said that in classroom. In what class: social studies, sex ed?.. That doesn't mean that slut shamming isn't true, but I don't think that is reflection of societies views, but rather the simple fact that teenagers are often really cruel. Now days social media allow people to remain teenagers their entire life.

I know some other girls have thrown in their high school experience but in mine, girls and boys were separated. We were told once a month we'd bleed out and it might be a bit uncomfortable, but congratulations, you're a woman now! And guys were taught how to whack a condom on a banana and told that masturation is normal. Girls "didn't need" to know how to do that because we apparently shouldn't have been doing it enough to be all that concerned and it "made the male teacher uncomfortable". My school wasn't particularly religious, or even all that conservative. And if a guy lost his virginity, he as awesome, but the girl was lumped into the slut group.

(And also you don't always lose you're hymen from penetrative sex, it's just a flimsy lil holey membrane that can tear and break if you're so much as a physically active kid... so uh, we can't really base virginity on hymens.)

She goes on to say "1 in 4 young woman are victims of sexual assault and society says what was she wearing", she manages to make two distortions in one sentence. First the statistic, according to the National Crime Victimization Survey of 70,000 people .08% of woman were victims of rape or sexual assault in 2009. What a victim was wearing has been inadmissible in court since 1978, and host of other victims related activity (i.e. past sexual activity) where no longer allowed when the law was changed in 1994. We shouldn't confused what a few idiots say on twitter with what society believes.

I'm not gonna bicker rape statistics because it's early and I'm tired, but do you have any idea how terrifying it is stepping forward to report being raped? Do you have any idea how many women DON'T? When I was raped I was told I shouldn't report because the guy had been a friend of mine and he was at university and had a girlfriend and he was such a good guy, and he was probably just too drunk to know what he was doing. And that really isn't an uncommon thing. "Reporting would ruin his life".

Court statistics are fab, but the people in court do not equate to society as a whole and most often the judgements are coming from people you know and love, not someone on a big seat in a wig. I have friends who've been assaulted and told that what they were wearing was asking for it. Not by a judge, but by their friends or their family, not necessarily by a "few idiots on twitter". One friend was raped by her boyfriend and told she should have enjoyed it because they were in a relationship and he's "allowed to want to have sex". All of that up there ^ is stuff that not just I, but a bunch of my friends have been told too over the years. And when you constantly have this shit pushed on you added to what was undoubtedly a horribly traumatic experience, you're less likely to come forward than ever.

I don't like throwing personal experience in to back up what I'm saying but it's easy when you're talking about rape to throw in a heap of statistics and opinions on them and completely forget that there are real people this is happening to and it is terrifying, and the way that it's handled should not be happening. The very fact I can reel off a list of people in my life who've been through it but haven't been a part of any court statistic is awful.

 

[SexySteph]

I don't like throwing personal experience in to back up what I'm saying but it's easy when you're talking about rape to throw in a heap of statistics and opinions on them and completely forget that there are real people this is happening to and it is terrifying, and the way that it's handled should not be happening. The very fact I can reel off a list of people in my life who've been through it but haven't been a part of any court statistic is awful.

This. If the federal statistics were true then the majority of my friend group wouldn't be either a victim of rape or directly connected to someone who was raped. The percentage of women reporting their rape to the police is almost nil.

And I'm not kidding. I was raped, my best friend's sister was raped, one of the girl's in my department was raped, my other best friend was raped. The list goes on. And NONE of us reported. Mine was an ex boyfriend, who I'd willingly had sex with that morning. I bet THAT would have held up in court real well, especially since most of my friends said "Well, you did have sex with him earlier that day. How was he supposed to know that you were serious when you said no?". Another girl was raped by one of the guys at her boyfriend's frat during a party, and he then broke up with her for 'cheating'. Oh yeah, also gonna go over real well in court.

Rape is so so SO under-reported that the federal statistics are pretty much useless.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

Honestly, and I'm not being dramatic here, I don't know of hardly ANY girls who haven't been sexually assaulted at the very least, if not raped. Maybe it's because girls are more likely to talk about it in the company of other women, but I sometimes think men really don't understand how frequently a girl will mention being assaulted or raped in a female environment and nearly every other girl in the group shares a story as well. Most of these are not reported.

I'm sure that the sort of women I hang out with probably skews that (ie, do strippers get raped more than not-strippers? I mean who knows), but I really do think the number is actually much higher than we think.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I got the toy baby! It's programmed to cry randomly and we had to take it for two nights at home. It woke me up 2-3 times per night! We also had to take it class where it'd cry and we'd have to take it outside to comfort it. We had little wristbands that had sensors or something, and a bottle and diapers with them too, so it'd be trial-and-error to find out if it wanted food, a diaper change, or just to be held. Then it would record how long it was crying so if you stuck it in a closet and ignored it, you'd fail. (Mine rolled off the bed and got shaken baby syndrome :shock: )

And we had only one teen mom during my entire five years, so maybe it helped. I sure didn't want a baby after that.

I love it.. It very well may have helped. One of the really under reported stories is how many things are going right in general with society and especially among young people. Crime rates are way down and especially among 18-25 year men. Likewise teen pregnancy rates have dropped for from 61.8 per 1,000 woman in 1991 to 26.6 in 2013, and even lower in Canada.

 

[SexySteph]

I got the toy baby! It's programmed to cry randomly and we had to take it for two nights at home. It woke me up 2-3 times per night! We also had to take it class where it'd cry and we'd have to take it outside to comfort it. We had little wristbands that had sensors or something, and a bottle and diapers with them too, so it'd be trial-and-error to find out if it wanted food, a diaper change, or just to be held. Then it would record how long it was crying so if you stuck it in a closet and ignored it, you'd fail. (Mine rolled off the bed and got shaken baby syndrome :shock: )

And we had only one teen mom during my entire five years, so maybe it helped. I sure didn't want a baby after that.

I love it.. It very well may have helped. One of the really under reported stories is how many things are going right in general with society and especially among young people. Crime rates are way down and especially among 18-25 year men. Likewise teen pregnancy rates have dropped for from 61.8 per 1,000 woman in 1991 to 26.6 in 2013, and even lower in Canada.

That pregnancy rate drop is HUGE! That's amazing. It's interesting that that decrease coincides with society becoming more sexually open (or at least, the generation before ours claims that we're more sexually open than they were. ) and less abstinence only education. Whodathunk it! A more sex positive society would lead to more responsible sex. (Answer: people with brains).

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Honestly, and I'm not being dramatic here, I don't know of hardly ANY girls who haven't been sexually assaulted at the very least, if not raped. Maybe it's because girls are more likely to talk about it in the company of other women, but I sometimes think men really don't understand how frequently a girl will mention being assaulted or raped in a female environment and nearly every other girl in the group shares a story as well. Most of these are not reported.

I'm sure that the sort of women I hang out with probably skews that (ie, do strippers get raped more than not-strippers? I mean who knows), but I really do think the number is actually much higher than we think.

I understand that rape is really under reported. The methodology the government uses to collect these statistic doesn't require you to report a crime. The National Crime Victim Survey (NCVS) involves a largely anonymous survey of of about 90,000 households interviewed twice in a year very similar to the census. The NCVS is actually one of the reasons we know rape is an under reported crime since there is a big gap between the rape crimes reported to the FBI and the NCVS. I suppose is possible woman systematically lie to census takers about rape/sexual assault, but if woman aren't willing to come forth under these conditions I don't know what else we can do to get more accurate information.

This press release talks some more about the survey and also points that sex crimes against woman decline by 60% between 1995 and 2010.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fvsv9410pr.cfm

Young woman are 2-3 times more likely than older woman to be victims (the FBI website has lots of data the show victims by age) and sex workers are even more likely to be victims. So my wild ass guess is that your friends are at least 10 times more likely to be a victim of a sex crime than average 40 year old woman.

It is also important to put rape/sexual assault in the context of other crimes. From this report [url=http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
[/url]. table 5.

We can see that yearly chances of being a rape victim are
Male .02% Female .08%
But the chance of being a victim of aggravated assault (which is defined as spending more than 48 hours in hospital) are
Male .43% Female .23%

Last year a friend of mine was the victim of aggravated assault, he attempted to help his wife who was being attacked first. The attack, at a movie theater, put his wife in the hospital for a week, and him for month and he suffered enough internal injuries they he is going likely require wearing a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. It doesn't seem much of stretch to say that my friend's life is going to be impacted more than a woman who was the victim of sexual assault (not necessarily rape).

Even if we double the number number of rapes/sexual assaults, men are still more likely to be victims of very violent crimes than woman. You add to that men are 3.6 times more like to be murder victims than woman. It is kinda of hard to reach conclusion that woman are the ones that need special protection.

I am not discounting all of your personal anecdotes, and if you are poor, or African America than your chance of being a victim are much higher than the average suggest. It is also worth point that crime in this country has been steadily decrease for 30 years so we are basically on the right track.

 

[CallMeWilliam]

That pregnancy rate drop is HUGE! That's amazing. It's interesting that that decrease coincides with society becoming more sexually open (or at least, the generation before ours claims that we're more sexually open than they were. ) and less abstinence only education. Whodathunk it! A more sex positive society would lead to more responsible sex. (Answer: people with brains).

Actually you might want to re-think your *people with brains* theory, although young adult pregnancies are down young adult STD infections are on the rise (see http://www.familyfirstaid.org/parenting ... statistics) if the *society becoming more sexually open* was true then any and all risks of sexual encounters would also be going down at the same time which it is not.

It seems that *society becoming more sexually open* does not equal *people with more brains* in this case.

 

[SexySteph]

That pregnancy rate drop is HUGE! That's amazing. It's interesting that that decrease coincides with society becoming more sexually open (or at least, the generation before ours claims that we're more sexually open than they were. ) and less abstinence only education. Whodathunk it! A more sex positive society would lead to more responsible sex. (Answer: people with brains).

Actually you might want to re-think your *people with brains* theory, although young adult pregnancies are down young adult STD infections are on the rise (see http://www.familyfirstaid.org/parenting ... statistics) if the *society becoming more sexually open* was true then any and all risks of sexual encounters would also be going down at the same time which it is not.

It seems that *society becoming more sexually open* does not equal *people with more brains* in this case.

I didn't mean people got smarter. I meant people with half a brain would have guessed that abstinence only education was good and talking openly about sex would lead to more responsible sex.

Even if we double the number number of rapes/sexual assaults, men are still more likely to be victims of very violent crimes than woman. You add to that men are 3.6 times more like to be murder victims than woman. It is kinda of hard to reach conclusion that woman are the ones that need special protection.
I

When men are assaulted/murdered/raped who is the assailant a majority of the time. Is it another male? Yes. Same thing when women are victims of these crimes. I am NOT saying that men are dangerous, I am saying that we teach men that aggressiveness and violence are appropriate ways to demonstrate their manliness and this is how it manifests.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Women lose value as they gain bedmates. Men gain value for every woman they bang. Turn men on, but don't have sex. Our culture is a total mindfuck. It's no wonder people don't understand the purpose of feminism.

The whole double standard of promiscuous women being sluts and promiscuous men being studs negatively effects men in a way that is often overlooked, I think. While women are often judged poorly by their peers for not being overly discerning with who they sleep with, men are often judged poorly by their peers for sleeping with too few women.

There's this weird sexual culture wherein pussy has become this mythical McGuffin for men, unfairly annexed by the opposite sex. And for women, it's become something that society teaches to be guarded and revered, a holy thing to be hidden away from the unwashed masses. These two conflicting societal pressures create a perfect storm of shit. If a woman sleeps around, she's a slut. If she doesn't, she's a prude and it's no wonder men are driven to rape when nobody will sleep with them. If men sleep around - unjudged by society - they're propagating a double standard whereby the same behaviour is encouraged in one sex, and discouraged in the other. If they don't sleep around, they're losers, virgins, "faggots".

Nobody really wins, ya know? I think this is yet another thing that feminism strives to address, and that's good for everybody.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

So when Lacie Green says that "Woman are taught in public school that once they have sex they lose part of themselves", I say BS. I certainly never heard a teacher say anything of the sort when I was in high school. I seriously doubt more than a percent or two of public school teacher in the 21st century have said that in classroom. In what class: social studies, sex ed?.. That doesn't mean that slut shamming isn't true, but I don't think that is reflection of societies views, but rather the simple fact that teenagers are often really cruel. Now days social media allow people to remain teenagers their entire life.

I know some other girls have thrown in their high school experience but in mine, girls and boys were separated. We were told once a month we'd bleed out and it might be a bit uncomfortable, but congratulations, you're a woman now! And guys were taught how to whack a condom on a banana and told that masturation is normal. Girls "didn't need" to know how to do that because we apparently shouldn't have been doing it enough to be all that concerned and it "made the male teacher uncomfortable". My school wasn't particularly religious, or even all that conservative. And if a guy lost his virginity, he as awesome, but the girl was lumped into the slut group.

(And also you don't always lose you're hymen from penetrative sex, it's just a flimsy lil holey membrane that can tear and break if you're so much as a physically active kid... so uh, we can't really base virginity on hymens.)

I just want to clarify that my hymen joke, was in fact just a joke. I was born without a hymen and I can assure you I'm no virgin.