Would you prefer to know that you can be doxed?

[brumtabu]

A bit of a philosophical question here: Would you prefer to know that there is enough information out there to dox you or would you prefer to not know that and not worry about it?

I am not talking about just theoretical potential, but about actually having figured out the address of a model from seemingly harmless information (background details in a photo). What makes this situation a little tricky is that said background details are hard to avoid, so it's not just a matter of deleting a specific photo, but it might require completely avoiding a location to avoid that information from leaking again.

So would you prefer to know that or would it be better to just forget about it as it might do more harm than good?

 

[Lintilla]

I already know that I can be doxxed, and many more ways for it to happen than anyone else is likely to come up with.

I'd probably be interested in knowing specifically how you found whatever you found, just for curiosity's sake. It almost certainly wouldn't be news to me, and I probably wouldn't do much if anything about it. I'm not one of those models who's overly concerned about hiding their location or identity. My anonymity is largely a facade, although I do usually prefer to let it stay that way, and most people oblige.

I'd also probably block you for being the kind of creep who went ahead and put the effort into putting A and B together in the first place. The kind of information you speak of above didn't "leak"--you dug for it. That's definitely creepy behaviour. If I didn't block for that (maybe I somehow believed you stumbled on something by accident), I'd probably end up blocking you for white knighting, because I hate white knights almost even more than creeps.

I don't need some dude to tell me that if I don't broadcast from a bunker on the moon I run the risk of someone finding me. It's almost impossible to keep something from slipping now and then that could lead people to info we don't want to have. We're all pretty aware of that risk, for the most part, but also trust that people will generally uphold their end of that unspoken social contract and not sit around trying to find the view they saw from our window on Google Maps. Those bothered by the risk probably don't keep camming for long. The rest of us have come to terms with things in our own personal ways, and without your help.

If the model you're talking about is anything like me, I'd forget about it. It will definitely do YOU more harm than good. And going forward, try to resist the temptation to dig up models' personal information, kthx.

 

[Magnolia]

A bit of a philosophical question here: Would you prefer to know that there is enough information out there to dox you or would you prefer to not know that and not worry about it?

I am not talking about just theoretical potential, but about actually having figured out the address of a model from seemingly harmless information (background details in a photo). What makes this situation a little tricky is that said background details are hard to avoid, so it's not just a matter of deleting a specific photo, but it might require completely avoiding a location to avoid that information from leaking again.

So would you prefer to know that or would it be better to just forget about it as it might do more harm than good?

Are you talking about actual stuff in the background of a photo or metadata within a linked picture? I think metadata isn't something a lot of camgirls know about, but it can give EXACT locations of where you took your photos. Seriously, wipe that shit, ladies.

 

[ZoeBanx]

personally i'd like to know.

but idk.. i feel like if you point that out to a model you run the risk of her getting spooked by you uncovering this info and she might ban and never speak to you again.

 

[Kiki Jane]

I think... If it was something really obvious, let me know. I can brain fart a lot... So, say I release a photo where I'm standing right in front of a calendar advertising a local Chinese restaurant, please let me know!!!

 

[brumtabu]

Are you talking about actual stuff in the background of a photo or metadata within a linked picture? I think metadata isn't something a lot of camgirls know about, but it can give EXACT locations of where you took your photos. Seriously, wipe that shit, ladies.

I am talking about actual stuff, buildings, mountain ranges, rivers, etc. A vague starting position (country/state which a lot of models publish) and a bit of flying around on Google Earth 3D can identify them relatively quickly even from a large distance, add a bit of triangulation and you can pin point pretty much exactly from where a photo was taken. It takes a bit more effort than Google's reverse image search or looking at metadata (which a lot of image hoster thankfully strip), but it's a lot easier than one might expected.

 

[MicaVerano]

Are you talking about actual stuff in the background of a photo or metadata within a linked picture? I think metadata isn't something a lot of camgirls know about, but it can give EXACT locations of where you took your photos. Seriously, wipe that shit, ladies.

How do you do that?!
Going to research, specially because I use my phone for pictures. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Magnolia]

How do you do that?!
Going to research, specially because I use my phone for pictures. Thanks for the advice!

If you're selling photosets through a site check with the site to make sure they wipe it. If you upload to twitter or similar sites MOST of them will remove it. If you upload directly to a drive (like Google Drive or DropBox) it will NOT remove it, just run it through a site like imgur, resave the images, and reupload. Imgur removes all metadata and you can do it without "posting" an image.



You can also remove metadata straight from your desktop as well (I don't know how or if you can directly from your phone), but it's super time-consuming.

 

[Magnolia]

I am talking about actual stuff, buildings, mountain ranges, rivers, etc. A vague starting position (country/state which a lot of models publish) and a bit of flying around on Google Earth 3D can identify them relatively quickly even from a large distance, add a bit of triangulation and you can pin point pretty much exactly from where a photo was taken. It takes a bit more effort than Google's reverse image search or looking at metadata (which a lot of image hoster thankfully strip), but it's a lot easier than one might expected.

Yeah well... it's pretty common sense that if you don't want a photo's location to be discovered then don't take a photo outside or near any popular landmarks. If you told me that you did this to one of my pictures I would block your ass and tell all my camgirls friends to do the same. That's not just "some" digging, that's fucking creepy. If she's taking pictures outside then she's taking a chance and she probably already knows that. Unless you're a local to the area and know certain landmarks already by chance, you're being an asshole.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

a bit of flying around on Google Earth 3D

And site members wonder why we might not want to share any personal information with them at all...

Folks, take note. People will literally stalk you using google earth to crawl for clues like cyber Nancy Drews, and then triangulate your location.

 

[Pure_emotion]

If you would be a member in my room and you tell me this , I would definitely ban lifetime and ignore forever , without any possibility of coming back in my room. Plus I would make a thread about you on this forum to warn all the other models about this creepy guy who acts like a stalker and not like a member who just wanna jerk off and go fuckin sleep. So thank you for this thread, makes all of us more aware of the creeps out there.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Yikes! This is...uh...quite a thread to have as your first two ACF posts. Lol.

 

[Emberblaze]

"SHOULD I TELL THIS MODEL I'VE BEEN CYBER STALKING HER ON GOOGLE EARTH?"

Yes. Please tell her.

Ladies telling him you would block him? SHHHHH. Seriously that will just prevent him from exposing his stalking to her.

 

[brumtabu]

Yeah well... it's pretty common sense that if you don't want a photo's location to be discovered then don't take a photo outside or near any popular landmarks. [...] That's not just "some" digging, that's fucking creepy.

But here is the thing, it doesn't have to be a popular landmark, it just has to be a landmark, any kind of geometry that stands out will do. Anything you can see in a photo in the distance, you can see on Google Earth's 3D view just as easily. The effort this requires is far less than one might expect when you have complete 3D maps and 3D cities available. With old 2D maps this would have required serious effort, with the new 3D ones not so much.

 

[Kiki Jane]

But here is the thing, it doesn't have to be a popular landmark, it just has to be a landmark, any kind of geometry that stands out will do. Anything you can see in a photo in the distance, you can see on Google Earth's 3D view just as easily. The effort this requires is far less than one might expect when you have complete 3D maps and 3D cities available. With old 2D maps this would have required serious effort, with the new 3D ones not so much.

Thing is... If I go to the Rocky mountains, and I have the chance to do a sexy snap, I might, even though some big ol' famous mountain is behind me. Oooh, I visited a famous tourist site. So, I probably live in the western U.S. or Canada. Or maybe I'm from the east coast, and this is a special holiday for me.

But, good to know how vulnerable we are these days. From now on, we should only do sexy outdoor photoshoots in front of famous tourist sites. Or, in front of green screens. (Actually, this post is a good warning. I've been tempted to plan some sort of outdoor national park photos, but I don't think I will now... Unless they're really, really far away lol)

 

[ZoeBanx]

yeah, okay.. i was right. she is DEFINITELY gonna block and never speak to you again if you tell her you did ALL THAT WORK just to find out her location because it's creepy as fuck. you need help.

 

[Gwenlacy]

"SHOULD I TELL THIS MODEL I'VE BEEN CYBER STALKING HER ON GOOGLE EARTH?"

Yes. Please tell her.

Ladies telling him you would block him? SHHHHH. Seriously that will just prevent him from exposing his stalking to her.

Was thinking a similar thing, your response made me have a good chuckle!

Also yes definitely TELL HER.

 

[Magnolia]

But here is the thing, it doesn't have to be a popular landmark, it just has to be a landmark, any kind of geometry that stands out will do. Anything you can see in a photo in the distance, you can see on Google Earth's 3D view just as easily. The effort this requires is far less than one might expect when you have complete 3D maps and 3D cities available. With old 2D maps this would have required serious effort, with the new 3D ones not so much.

point
----------------
your head

 

[AmberCutie]

But here is the thing, it doesn't have to be a popular landmark, it just has to be a landmark, any kind of geometry that stands out will do. Anything you can see in a photo in the distance, you can see on Google Earth's 3D view just as easily. The effort this requires is far less than one might expect when you have complete 3D maps and 3D cities available. With old 2D maps this would have required serious effort, with the new 3D ones not so much.

If someone went out of their way (yes, checking google earth 3d is out of the way, it just is) to identify a land mark (not "landmark" as in a popular well recognizable by the major population thing) in one of my images/videos and came to me about it, They'd be banned. Looking into a photo at that level is not a natural/normal response. It is the response of someone with an unhealthy mindset.

If I mistakenly posted a photo/video with an obvious street sign or building address that was a dead-giveaway of my neighborhood, tell me. That is helping a friend out. If it's something right there on the image, and I've not already acknowledged that I'm on a special trip away from home, etc., then I'd probably appreciate the heads up to remove the image before more people view it.

If I post a photo with something vague in it that you thought you might recognize so you go to google earth and search it out and brag to me that you know where I was, then I'mma think you're a creeper and don't want any part of you.

I've taken photos in front of, for example, the Pike's Place Fish Market. I know it's recognizable. I wait until I am no longer at that particular location to post said picture. I know the landmark would give away my spot right at the moment that I post it. If you reply to the photo with "Oh hey, I've been there I live pretty close!" awesome, cool, whatevs.

I've taken photos in and of my back yard. If you take the time to put together photo info from a few images and piece together what my land looks like and search it out on Western Washington Google Earth and figure out my home location? That's you being a nutty nut nut that needs a better hobby and cam girls need to avoid you like the plague.

 

[venomous]

Pretty much anyone can be doxxed. Speaking as someone who has been before, there's no comfort in knowing "it could happen to anyone."

It's super shitty when random, creepy internet people spread your full name on seedy websites. Once, my number was even posted. I assume this was someone I gave my number to. Never learned who.

It's a violation under any circumstances. There are no innocent circumstances in this situation, and careful examination of photos sounds like some serial killer shit.

 

[SecurityResearcher]

Well, debuting with this post is going to make me popular with the ladies...

I'm a security researcher, and that has made me professionally paranoid - I cannot stop seeing "attack" and "defense" in my mind. It doesn't just turn off. It is almost hard-wired, and it makes me good at my job.

Yes, I got to the same point OP did - investigating side-channel information leakage via background image. Once it got stuck in my head, it became OCD - not abut the individual but about the attack vector. I used a very popular, and obviously security conscious Instagram model .. and was able to pinpoint her home address in less than two hours using no resource but her Instagram feed.

That terrified me; I have a daughter, damnit!

OP, I went on to give some serious thought to my resulting ethical responsibilities, so here's my advice to you:

1. Do not post or describe any of your techniques. If you care about women in this profession - and the many other related "celebrity via self-generated content" professions - its in everybody's best interests to shut the fuck up about what you did, and how.

2. You do not owe the model an ethical obligation of disclosure. Standard white hat ethics require that we notify a corporation or individual when we have found a vulnerability in their software which can be used to compromise control of information systems. This is not that: this is pure information theory, rather than a software vulnerability.

3. Contacting the model to "warn" her about it has multiple risks for you - perhaps she's as forgiving as these fine ladies with their permaban response, but you could also have afoul of criminal statute - celebrity stalking laws which exist for a reason - in either her jurisdiction or yours.

AmberCutie, I request that this thread be outright deleted, assuming your forum software gives a moderator that power. No need to publicize the concept to random lurkers.

 

[ZoeBanx]

^ that's an interesting perspective on the OP. but i still think that even if you do that for a living, using your skills to target cam girls and find out where they live is weird and creepy. no one is asking or paying anyone to do that so you still have to wonder about the motivation especially with the nature of what we do...

 

[SecurityResearcher]

Totally agree, Zoe. My wife thought it was pretty "stalker-y" behavior, too - and she usually gets why/how my brain works and gets to the places it does!

 

[WickedTouch]

I'm a security researcher, and that has made me professionally paranoid - I cannot stop seeing "attack" and "defense" in my mind. It doesn't just turn off. It is almost hard-wired, and it makes me good at my job.

I used a very popular, and obviously security conscious Instagram model .. and was able to pinpoint her home address in less than two hours using no resource but her Instagram feed.

Yeah... just like your average creepy little stalker would!

 

[SecurityResearcher]

Yeah... just like your average creepy little stalker would!

Precisely. Remember, it is literally my profession to inhabit the mind of the bad guy, to think like the bad guy, and to, using his goals, resources, and limitations, develop his best attack.

Once I have an attack that I think is workable, its then my job to figure out what footprints that attack would leave behind, so that I can have a data scientist look for those footprints - and as it turns out, I rarely send them on a wild goose chase. From there, it'll wind up in anti-fraud or anti-crime departments, because that's when I get to the best part of my job:

Given what I've learned, plan the defenses that will stop the attacker in his tracks - even if he knows what those defenses are.

How does that translate to our example, here?

Yes, exactly, I have to get into the head of the average creepy little stalker. What's his goal? Let's set a benign goal: to learn where his "true love" lives so he can meet her, because if she could only see what a great guy he was, surely she'd fall in love with him. What resources does he have? He's an average Joe, so he has anything he can Google. What are his limitations? He's not a hacker, so he has no skills or tools. He's not a techie, so he doesn't know about EXIF data or anything. He's not rich. He's socially awkward, so he probably has few friends.

Mentally develop his best attack? As OP described, using side-channel information.

What's the footprint? I suspect there would be one that Google could identify, but I don't have access to a Google data scientist to verify, so let's go with plan B.

Proof of concept? True: any random person would do, but its a better POC to use somebody who is clearly security-aware and actively playing defense to the best of her / her management team's ability. And, yes, as stated, the POC works.

Anti-fraud / anti-crime team? ... not really applicable here.

The defense:

Limit information useful to the attacker via the side-channel.

1. Photographic equipment should be better than a simple point-and-click, allowing the photographer to use aperture to control the depth of field.

2. Model/mgmt should instruct photographer that, for any shot from the model's residence, the background should be distinctly out of focus so that no distinguishing characteristics are evident.

3. Model, as curator of her content and personal safety, should review and ensure that standard before releasing any pictures to a member of the public.

That's what I came up with in the context I was considering - at least it was enough for my OCD mind to let go of that as "task complete" and move on to the next puzzle.

TL;DR - if you shoot your own content, learn how to control depth of field using your camera's aperture. A high f-stop setting like f/5.6 or f/8.0 will ensure that the background is blurry enough that it cannot be used to locate you, and is recommended for photo shoots at any of your residences.

 

[MojitosJourney]

I haven’t read through the replies in this thread beyond a few, but personally if there is any breach in my security I want to know so I can adjust and keep myself safe. Along sort of similar lines, if my audio is off / too quiet when I’m on cam, I want to know. If my video is lagging I want to know. Should any issues arise, I want to fix all these things to have a high quality room and safe experience.

Many people rarely have the courage to point this stuff out and those that do, I highly appreciate it.

 

[DFT]

This is why I'm glad I got old. Not that old guys are gents - we just don't care if the young are offended.

This "brumtabu", is it? Answered a question nobody was asking. Yes, doxing is incredibly easy. Winter is cold. Please look into why and report back.

Well, debuting with this post is going to make me popular with the ladies...

It's ok. White hats and white knights don't drink from the same bar.

Do not post or describe any of your techniques <- This is scripture.
But it's so fun to show off how smert me are! No, it's not. Go write a spy novel.

Heya SR, you're a participant here now. Say hi in the Welcome so everyone else knows who you are.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Yeah... just like your average creepy little stalker would!

 

[ZoeBanx]

Totally agree, Zoe. My wife thought it was pretty "stalker-y" behavior, too - and she usually gets why/how my brain works and gets to the places it does!

are you going to all this trouble to find the location on pics of everyone? or just instagram models and cam girls..

 

[MarinaThyme]

You really came in here to tell every model and member on this forum precisely how to find their physical location in a photograph using Google Earth...? And you wanted to hear....what, exactly? Ok. So now anybody with GOOGLE can find THIS THREAD to get a creepy technique to find out their favorite model took a photo in Estes Park, Colorado in the spring...? That reverse searching techniques could help you find our home address in a matter of hours simply by a photo we took in our yard that maybe had a peek of the neighbor's pool in the background...?

The level of /facepalm and trolling here is just too much to compute.

To answer your question, if we don't ASK or hire you to see what you can find on our real life, we do not welcome that information being sent to us. As a new model, this would terrify the fuck out of me if someone messaged me all that shit. I would consider quitting or moving or changing my entire persona and starting from scratch saying I'm from Russia with a fake Russian accent and only broadcast at obscure times with a select handful of dudes that barely speak English. That's the level of paranoia that's in my head by the THOUGHT of you sending this info to me. I would not feel safe anymore. This isn't something a normal fan would ever do because our members don't want us doing it to them -- karma, man. We don't tell you our private info and you don't tell us yours and even if shit slips out, we never talk about it again and we never share that. We delete that shit from our memory the way we do seeing the nastiest of nasty comments in our chat rooms lol. Don't go there. It's common sense. Don't look for me, don't be a stalker and we are going to be just fine.

I would actually press charges or at least get a restraining order on your ass.

Bottom line - DO NOT ASK DO NOT TELL
It's not always a negative thing to left some stuff unspoken.

Edit;
I forgot to address that I also don't trust this "SecurityResearcher" dude. How do we know you're not lying? How do we know you aren't a terrorist or a hacker? Seriously. That's sketchy stuff to publicly announce as well. You're also sharing too much info and making yourself look super creepy. You remind me of a police dog for some reason and I'm sure you are a swell guy, but I think most of us would agree that the idea of people being professionally hired to find us is just as terrifying as a bored dude with Google in his hands...

Okay this whole thread has me thinking like a conspiracy theorist after they learned about the government hiding things from the public. Lmao. I'm gonna go watch cartoons and pretend that shit like this doesn't exist. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss, Ok? Don't judge me. I'm just a bb camgurl.