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MFC - Race
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Alcon said:This can be an explosive topic if not handled sensitively, but I can't help that notice, it seems to me, over 90% of the north American models are Caucasian. The real world definitely has a lot more diversity. Thoughts?
Do you think there is a lack of cultural ethnicity or do you think there is some sort of racism going on?
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Personally, I don't think racism has anything to do with it. There are plenty of black, white, yellow, brown skinned models on MFC. Skin color has nothing to do with success on MFC AFIC. Lighting is a key factor that some darker skinned models totally fail at.
I don't think you can compare MFC to the real world, Its just not representative as its a completely skewed view of the general population! Depends on far too many factors to make such a sweeping statement
First Off Lets Put use some numbers from the US Census
But your statement just confusing to me. You claim that 90% of the North American models are White/Caucasian and then compare it to World demographics. So what are you saying? Do you expect the diversity of the models to closer resemble global diversity?
In the scope of the entire World Population population Caucasians obviously do not account for 90% of humans. However even if you completely neglect cultural, technological, and government differences that would have effect on individuals decision to become cam model you must consider MyFreeCams as webpage and the users are likely to use it.
MyFreeCams is an English webpage, It is based out of the US and the majority of it's users are Male Caucasians. Language barriers detour models who can't speak English from joining, internet speeds can detour models from less technologically advanced parts of the world or simply further from the servers from joining. But most importantly, the diversity of the models should resemble the racial preferences of premium members not the global or US racial demographics.
- White 72.4%
Black 12.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native 0.9%
Asian 4.8%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 0.2%
two or more races 2.9%
Hispanic or Latino origin 16.3%
But your statement just confusing to me. You claim that 90% of the North American models are White/Caucasian and then compare it to World demographics. So what are you saying? Do you expect the diversity of the models to closer resemble global diversity?
In the scope of the entire World Population population Caucasians obviously do not account for 90% of humans. However even if you completely neglect cultural, technological, and government differences that would have effect on individuals decision to become cam model you must consider MyFreeCams as webpage and the users are likely to use it.
MyFreeCams is an English webpage, It is based out of the US and the majority of it's users are Male Caucasians. Language barriers detour models who can't speak English from joining, internet speeds can detour models from less technologically advanced parts of the world or simply further from the servers from joining. But most importantly, the diversity of the models should resemble the racial preferences of premium members not the global or US racial demographics.
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Just for accuracy: In the Census chart, the figure (72.4%) includes all white/caucasian (yes, including white Latino). Not sure why you'd lump them all together to create a larger number.
SoTxBob said:
Perhaps you're right. It's very difficult to have a discussion about this without people getting defensive. When I made my original post, I didn't trust what I would write, so I thought I would just throw out a couple of observations without interpretation. As a result, I think people are reading way more into this than what I actually meant to say. To me, it's just another pressure that women face, I feel the ideal beauty standard is still white or Asian for women. It could be totally explained by the demographics of the membership too.
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Yeah, it is a touchy subject here in the US...which I kind of feel badly about, but the discussion is valid and interesting.Alcon said:
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Good point. The FORM is probably a much bigger deal in programmed perception than ethnicity or other factors...the 'runway model' look. Assuming that's what you mean, of course.
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Alcon said:This can be an explosive topic if not handled sensitively, but I can't help that notice, it seems to me, over 90% of the north American models are Caucasian. The real world definitely has a lot more diversity. Thoughts?
RedHerby said:This can be an explosive topic if not handled sensitively, but I can't help that notice, it seems to me, that the % of redheads on MFC is very high. The real world definitely has a lot more diversity. Thoughts?
Wait! WTF is going on here? I'm making a tin foil hat and hiding in the closet now! :shock:
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
:lol: I suspect one thread is a parody of the other. lolJoleneJolene said:Alcon said:This can be an explosive topic if not handled sensitively, but I can't help that notice, it seems to me, over 90% of the north American models are Caucasian. The real world definitely has a lot more diversity. Thoughts?
RedHerby said:This can be an explosive topic if not handled sensitively, but I can't help that notice, it seems to me, that the % of redheads on MFC is very high. The real world definitely has a lot more diversity. Thoughts?
Wait! WTF is going on here? I'm making a tin foil hat and hiding in the closet now! :shock:
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Red hair is considered sexy and exotic by many.True blonde, jet black, and red are actually pretty rare natural colours, but SO many women dye their hair. Camgirls, like entertainers, celebrities etc put a lot of time and money into appearance, so you're going to see a concentration of coloured hair.
BoltEyeAm said:
To give you a more complete reply, this is an issue that has bothered me for some time... It was a mistake to post on this topic without being more explicit. This isn't just about MFC, MFC is just a potential microcosm and reflection, but in the world in general (through some searching apparently MFC is actually better than some other sites, although I wouldn't know too well because I've only ever used MFC). What bothers me is how beauty standards are enforced partially through race or ethnicity, or simple skin color. In India, the lighter skinned women from northern India are considered more attractive. In East Asia, women get surgery to make their eyes look rounder. In the US, the mainstream fashion magazines and Hollywood promote a pretty narrow formula of what is attractive which doesn't include African features (curly hair, etc).
I notice when I travel to countries where non-white women are the norm, I easily get attracted to non-white women, but when I am here in the US, or on MFC, I am usually almost exclusively attracted to white women. To me sexual attraction is not just physical, it also has a cultural imprint. I must be able to see the woman within the culture, and her place in it. I may be highly atypical in that. But I suspect not entirely. And I do sometimes feel guilty about my preferences. Because I've been on the other end of it as well and I know it feels horrible to be rejected because of your race, sexually or otherwise. And on a site like this, it's also monetary; primarily monetary. That's where I'm coming from. It's something that's been on my mind for awhile and today I just happened to be scanning the front page on MFC and it popped into my mind because I didn't see a lot of black models. Maybe 1 in 15. The area where I live is really diverse ethnically so when I'm walking around, and I tend to forget that the Americas are a big place and not everywhere looks like my metropolitan area.
I don't personally feel that racism necessarily has to be a component of one's preferences in sexual partners, real-life or virtual. Someone who is not particularly attracted to a certain race or ethnicity is not necessarily harboring feelings of hatred or superiority; it's just that certain aspects of physical appearance don't happen to push the right buttons, in the same manner that someone might not find blondes, tall women, girls with tattoos, women who smoke, or BBWs appealing. I myself happen to not be very physically or sexually attracted to Asian women, but that does not mean I consider them inferior or sub-standard -- it's just not my thing. True racism is a too serious, complex and insidious phenomenon as to be defined or indicated by who one prefers to pleasure themselves to on a silly cam site.Alcon said:
JickyJuly
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Race is actually classified by facial construction. There are only 3 races, and white/latino are in the same one. The idea that race=skin color is not scientific. It's social. So, the census chart method is actually correct. :twocents-02cents:Nordling said:
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Not true. "latino or hispanic" has to do with language, and has nothing to do with morphology whatsoever. A Latino can be black, white, asian even Pacific Islander.JickyJuly said:
Furthermore, the whole concept of "race" is more of a social construct than a scientific one. Anthropologists for the most part don't even used the term any longer, other than as a geographical origin thing.
You are right about skin color, but the terms white and black are now only distantly related to the "races" they apply to. One can be "black" and be lighter than someone who is "white." The whole thing has more to do with cultural preferences. Black people do NOT want to be called "negro" or "African." And "Caucasian" is awkward at best--I mean ask anyone in Georgia, Armenia, etc (the Caucasus) what they are and they'll probably give their unique nationality rather than "oh, hey, I'm a Cauc!"
JickyJuly
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Race is an archaic idea, and I don't think anyone really wants to be called by the name of whatever race they belong to. I didn't say Latino was a race. I said that it would make sense for Latino to fall into the Caucasian grouping.
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Agree. The concept came about in the 19th century with little thought to science. It should be abandoned.JickyJuly said:Race is an archaic idea, and I don't think anyone really wants to be called by the name of whatever race they belong to. I didn't say Latino was a race. I said that it would make sense for Latino to fall into the Caucasian grouping.
Still not sure why you think Latinos should be grouped with Caucasians though. My first gf after HS was a Latino of Chinese ancestry. (she was born in Mexico and spoke Spanish from birth) If I had suggested that she was white/caucasian/European/whatever she'd have given me a very odd look.
The Model AmberSin (now Keri_Rowland) is a Venezuelan black lady living in the US, her native language is Spanish. Why would you group her as a Caucasian?Nordling said:
Unfortunately, we hyooman beans have a tendency to want to categorize, define, label and piegeon-hole things, perhaps as the result of the genetic need to make sense and order out of chaos and uncertainty. The problem is, when that perfectly natural process is applied to people, it is simplistically inaccurate, and does no favors for the individuals who are the subject of such thinking. Really, the only "race" that matters, or even exists, is the human race.JickyJuly said:
It would be nice if we could just think of people as the unique individuals they are, and embrace and celebrate the incredible variety and diversity of humanity. How utterly dull a world it would be if we were all the same color, spoke the same language, ate the same foods, and guided our lives by the same religion/mythology/philosophy. That's not a world I would want to be part of...........BO-ring!
JickyJuly
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I thought you called latino a race when you said white/latino shouldn't fall into Caucasian? Do I need a nap?Nordling said:Agree. The concept came about in the 19th century with little thought to science. It should be abandoned.JickyJuly said:Race is an archaic idea, and I don't think anyone really wants to be called by the name of whatever race they belong to. I didn't say Latino was a race. I said that it would make sense for Latino to fall into the Caucasian grouping.
Still not sure why you think Latinos should be grouped with Caucasians though. My first gf after HS was a Latino of Chinese ancestry. (she was born in Mexico and spoke Spanish from birth) If I had suggested that she was white/caucasian/European/whatever she'd have given me a very odd look.
Hehehe. I'm all hopped up on chamomile tea and insomnia.
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
:lol: I'm no longer sure what I've said and I'm too tired to scroll. lol Ever notice how often discussions on the 'net are doomed because of a uncrossed t or undotted i? lolJickyJuly said:I thought you called latino a race when you said white/latino shouldn't fall into Caucasian? Do I need a nap?Nordling said:Agree. The concept came about in the 19th century with little thought to science. It should be abandoned.JickyJuly said:Race is an archaic idea, and I don't think anyone really wants to be called by the name of whatever race they belong to. I didn't say Latino was a race. I said that it would make sense for Latino to fall into the Caucasian grouping.
Still not sure why you think Latinos should be grouped with Caucasians though. My first gf after HS was a Latino of Chinese ancestry. (she was born in Mexico and spoke Spanish from birth) If I had suggested that she was white/caucasian/European/whatever she'd have given me a very odd look.
Race is really about genetics and, therefore, lines of ancestry. That's why facial features (especially underlying bone structure) is often a good guide to someones race (until they contain significant percentages of multiple, diverse lines of ancestry and people get confused). On the other hand, while the language you speak and the country you were born in often correspond to your race, there's nothing that actually ties them together.Nordling said:Agree. The concept came about in the 19th century with little thought to science. It should be abandoned.JickyJuly said:Race is an archaic idea, and I don't think anyone really wants to be called by the name of whatever race they belong to. I didn't say Latino was a race. I said that it would make sense for Latino to fall into the Caucasian grouping.
Still not sure why you think Latinos should be grouped with Caucasians though. My first gf after HS was a Latino of Chinese ancestry. (she was born in Mexico and spoke Spanish from birth) If I had suggested that she was white/caucasian/European/whatever she'd have given me a very odd look.
So (and I'm sorry to say this so bluntly because I know this is a touchy subject and people can get very upset about racial identity), your girlfriend, being of Chinese descent, was Chinese, not Latino. In the genetic view, the reason that you could group Latinos and Hispanics with Caucasians is that they share some ancestry with Europeans (most notably Iberians, but some others as well). That said, I think this is where definitions of race become influenced greatly by social factors, since most Latinos / Hispanics are likely a combination of genetic heritage that includes South or Central American native ancestry (which itself is likely a long-past offshoot of Asian ancestry). What I find interesting here is that there are plenty of people who would categorize Hispanics of mixed ancestry Caucasian, and yet there are plenty of people who would say that a person with "even a single drop" of African blood is Black rather than White.
Finally, a couple of words about the census. First, it's important to note that the census numbers regarding race do not add up to 100% anymore now that people of mixed race may now choose more than one. Second, while the categories of race on the census form might (and I stress might) be "scientific" the resulting numbers aren't really, because what is really being answered is what race people perceive themselves to be, not necessarily what race they are.
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